Championship Playoff Final - Match Thread

[CardiffBlackLabel]

exactly.

Times change. The political map changes. Welsh teams want to stay in the english FA controlled leagues because its financially beneficial. No other reason. Not tradition, not a love for the english, just money.

That money should be going to english teams as that is where the english FA's focus should be.

For the umpteenth time, it's not the English League. It's the football league which is open to teams from England and Wales. This argument is like banging my head against a brick wall, or listening to a Wurzels record on endless loop.

Do you think that NHL and NBA is only for American sports teams?

[A Horse With No Name]

http://www.cardiffci...000/index.shtml

Cardiff and Swansea will now come under the auspices of the Football Association. Personally I think it is the right thing.

Of course, it won't be enough to satisfy some of the more militant anti-Welsh out there, but it is nonetheless a good thing and removes the total myth that Cardiff and Swansea get preferential treatment from the FAW (which was always total fantasy anyway)

Which is why, every time a Cardiff player got sent off, it was rescinded by the Welsh F.A.

[SC_Red]

http://www.cardiffcity-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/fa_to_govern_cardiff_and_swansea_677000/index.shtml

Cardiff and Swansea will now come under the auspices of the Football Association. Personally I think it is the right thing.

Of course, it won't be enough to satisfy some of the more militant anti-Welsh out there, but it is nonetheless a good thing and removes the total myth that Cardiff and Swansea get preferential treatment from the FAW (which was always total fantasy anyway)

I'm not anti welsh. Lovely country with some great people.

I am anti football teams from other countries playing in a league outside their own just for financial gain at the expense of clubs in that country.

[SC_Red]

For the umpteenth time, it's not the English League. It's the football league which is open to teams from England and Wales. This argument is like banging my head against a brick wall, or listening to a Wurzels record on endless loop.

Do you think that NHL and NBA is only for American sports teams?

its run by the english FA. It is an english league.

You want your team in it because without it you'd be a small club playing in a shit league. Ican understand that but its not the English FAs job to look after teams from other countries. They should look after their own and not give money and league places to teams outside their country.

You are under the English FA now but havent been for years. You even competed in the FA cup of an FA you had nothing to do with.

Its entirely wrong and your only argument is you need the money english football brings you which is no argument at all as english teams need it just as much and by virtue of the fact they are english should be allowed a place in their own countrys league instead of clubs from other countries.

[Frome Valley]

exactly.

Times change. The political map changes. Welsh teams want to stay in the english FA controlled leagues because its financially beneficial. No other reason. Not tradition, not a love for the english, just money.

That money should be going to english teams as that is where the english FA's focus should be.

Err the FA control the Premier league and that since its inception [1991]been a league by its own definition for English and Welsh teams. The premeir league is not an English league under its own rules.

The football league is controlled by the football league not the FA but is also traditionally a league for English and Welsh teams.

[SC_Red]

Err the FA control the Premier league and that since its inception [1991]been a league by its own definition for English and Welsh teams. The premeir league is not an English league under its own rules.

The football league is controlled by the football league not the FA but is also traditionally a league for English and Welsh teams.

I know. But it should be.

Wales has its own league. England doesnt need Welsh clubs in it's league. It needs to develop and help its own clubs.

But if people would rather the English FA threw money at teams from other countries rather than helping English teams thats fine. I happen to disagree.

[The Gasbuster]

http://www.cardiffcity-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/fa_to_govern_cardiff_and_swansea_677000/index.shtml

Cardiff and Swansea will now come under the auspices of the Football Association. Personally I think it is the right thing.

Of course, it won't be enough to satisfy some of the more militant anti-Welsh out there, but it is nonetheless a good thing and removes the total myth that Cardiff and Swansea get preferential treatment from the FAW (which was always total fantasy anyway)

C.B.L., both you and SC Red have made some valid points. Credit to you for keeping calm and measured !!

The Premier League was formed to supposedly help the England Team, when in fact it has done quite the opposite. Premier League fixtures were to be postponed to give the England team more time together. The result was that the rest of the world wanted the same rules for themselves. Next we had blank league saturdays because Denmark were playing Sweden, who had players in the P.L. !!

SC Red is right when he says there is resentment that an English club's place in the P.L. is now going to be taken up by Swansea.

What really rankles me however is Cardiff fans singing "We hate England" (not so sure about Swans fans doing this ?)

Well if they hate England so much, should they not be pressing for resignation from our league system ?

[CardiffBlackLabel]

Which is why, every time a Cardiff player got sent off, it was rescinded by the Welsh F.A.

Yeah, and I invite you to list all these examples, along with all the examples of red cards not being rescinded, and then cross-compare them to the rate of rescindendcy (is that a word!?) of the Football Association.

Of course, you aren't going to do that. That would lead you to the truth which is that Welsh clubs do not get any preferential treatment. The truth aint as fun is it? Much more fun to pretend that Welsh clubs get preferential treatment even if it's total bollocks.

[The Gasbuster]

Yeah, and I invite you to list all these examples, along with all the examples of red cards not being rescinded, and then cross-compare them to the rate of rescindendcy (is that a word!?) of the Football Association.

Of course, you aren't going to do that. That would lead you to the truth which is that Welsh clubs do not get any preferential treatment. The truth aint as fun is it? Much more fun to pretend that Welsh clubs get preferential treatment even if it's total bollocks.

Darren Purse when playing for Cardiff, possibly 12 months ago. Committed a shocking foul on a player (cant remember who ?). A clear red card, yet the F.A.W. rescinded it. He was then made available for the play offs.

[CardiffBlackLabel]

C.B.L., both you and SC Red have made some valid points. Credit to you for keeping calm and measured !!

The Premier League was formed to supposedly help the England Team, when in fact it has done quite the opposite. Premier League fixtures were to be postponed to give the England team more time together. The result was that the rest of the world wanted the same rules for themselves. Next we had blank league saturdays because Denmark were playing Sweden, who had players in the P.L. !!

SC Red is right when he says there is resentment that an English club's place in the P.L. is now going to be taken up by Swansea.

What really rankles me however is Cardiff fans singing "We hate England" (not so sure about Swans fans doing this ?)

Well if they hate England so much, should they not be pressing for resignation from our league system ?

Mate, game in game out we get abuse for representing a Welsh club. Do you hear us moan about it? It's banter, it's part of the game.

We aren't a bunch of timid shrews. We aren't going to sit there, listening to anti-welsh tirades EVERY away game without giving something back. Who started it? I don't know. But it's banter.

Support for independence in Wales is about 10%. The vast bulk of Cardiff fans are proud to be Welsh and proud to be British (and indeed, we have many English fans too- I personally have a friend from Bristol and a friend from London who support Cardiff after moving here). We aren't anti-English per se. It's banter. We read English papers, watch English TV, live in a city that is 25% English. The same can't be said for understanding of Welsh culture in places like Burnley, Middlesbrough or Bristol. The latter, I must say has a shocking level of anti-Welsh feeling amongst some residents. Either way, a genuine dislike of another country or region is always, always wrong. I hate ignorance and intolerance on all sides.

I'm going off track here, but the fact remains that the football league always was, and still is a league open to clubs from England and from Wales. That's the way it is. Sometimes things don't fit the nice little holes that some nationalist want, but so be it.

This is our league as much as it is yours.

And if you want cheering up, be aware that Swansea will probably field more English players next year than any of the teams representing England in the champions league.

I say good luck, or 'pob lwc' to Swansea.

[Frome Valley]

C.B.L., both you and SC Red have made some valid points. Credit to you for keeping calm and measured !!

The Premier League was formed to supposedly help the England Team, when in fact it has done quite the opposite. Premier League fixtures were to be postponed to give the England team more time together. The result was that the rest of the world wanted the same rules for themselves. Next we had blank league saturdays because Denmark were playing Sweden, who had players in the P.L. !!

SC Red is right when he says there is resentment that an English club's place in the P.L. is now going to be taken up by Swansea.

What really rankles me however is Cardiff fans singing "We hate England" (not so sure about Swans fans doing this ?)

Well if they hate England so much, should they not be pressing for resignation from our league system ?

The Premier league was not formed to help the national team but as a breakway from the rest of the football lEAGUE as a means to creat more cash for those involved. The clubs led by Chelseas Ken Bates would have gone on their own after TV's money otherwise.

Blank saturdays are International breaks all over Europe. All FA's observe them and they are arranged by EUFA/FIFA in advance of the fixture list being released.

Only tiny minds would have any resentment of a Welsh team being promoted through two different leagues that both state by their own rules for decades they are for English and Welsh teams.

[RedZepperin]

Bristol. The latter, I must say has a shocking level of anti-Welsh feeling amongst some residents.

Many Bristolians are of Welsh extraction. Most of the anti-Welsh feeling in the area is (IMO) a reaction to the hatred from across the river.

[SC_Red]

Mate, game in game out we get abuse for representing a Welsh club. Do you hear us moan about it? It's banter, it's part of the game.

We aren't a bunch of timid shrews. We aren't going to sit there, listening to anti-welsh tirades EVERY away game without giving something back. Who started it? I don't know. But it's banter.

Support for independence in Wales is about 10%. The vast bulk of Cardiff fans are proud to be Welsh and proud to be British (and indeed, we have many English fans too- I personally have a friend from Bristol and a friend from London who support Cardiff after moving here). We aren't anti-English per se. It's banter. We read English papers, watch English TV, live in a city that is 25% English. The same can't be said for understanding of Welsh culture in places like Burnley, Middlesbrough or Bristol. The latter, I must say has a shocking level of anti-Welsh feeling amongst some residents. Either way, a genuine dislike of another country or region is always, always wrong. I hate ignorance and intolerance on all sides.

I'm going off track here, but the fact remains that the football league always was, and still is a league open to clubs from England and from Wales. That's the way it is. Sometimes things don't fit the nice little holes that some nationalist want, but so be it.

This is our league as much as it is yours.

And if you want cheering up, be aware that Swansea will probably field more English players next year than any of the teams representing England in the champions league.

I say good luck, or 'pob lwc' to Swansea.

Again the conveniant nationalist tag applied to anyone who thinks teams should compete in their own country. You were wrong when you said it first time and saying it again doesnt change that fact.

We are all aware of the way it is. We are discussing how we think it should be.

I think the English FA should oversee english teams and english teams should compete against teams in england.

I think the Welsh FA should oversee welsh teams and welsh teams should compete against teams in wales.

But then I'm not trying to deflect from the fact that all I want is the money another country brings my club by labelling people nationalists.

[SC_Red]

Support for independence in Wales is about 10%. The vast bulk of Cardiff fans are proud to be Welsh and proud to be British (and indeed, we have many English fans too- I personally have a friend from Bristol and a friend from London who support Cardiff after moving here). We aren't anti-English per se. It's banter. We read English papers, watch English TV, live in a city that is 25% English. The same can't be said for understanding of Welsh culture in places like Burnley, Middlesbrough or Bristol. The latter, I must say has a shocking level of anti-Welsh feeling amongst some residents. Either way, a genuine dislike of another country or region is always, always wrong. I hate ignorance and intolerance on all sides.

you hate ignorance but your going to label entire English cities as having no understanding of Welsh culture? ok.

[Ron]

City won it once by playing a team of drunks found lying in the street.

Was this when Wilson was manager?

Edit: Bin dun

[Jordan Tansley]

Darren Purse when playing for Cardiff, possibly 12 months ago. Committed a shocking foul on a player (cant remember who ?). A clear red card, yet the F.A.W. rescinded it. He was then made available for the play offs.

Not the play offs, the FA cup final they lost to Pompey.

[Frome Valley]

Again the conveniant nationalist tag applied to anyone who thinks teams should compete in their own country. You were wrong when you said it first time and saying it again doesnt change that fact.

We are all aware of the way it is. We are discussing how we think it should be.

I think the English FA should oversee english teams and english teams should compete against teams in england.

I think the Welsh FA should oversee welsh teams and welsh teams should compete against teams in wales.

But then I'm not trying to deflect from the fact that all I want is the money another country brings my club by labelling people nationalists.

I think there should be one body to oversee the football league, Premier League and leagues beneath including Wales and the money generated shared in the interests of the greater good instead of the wealthy elite.

[SC_Red]

I think there should be one body to oversee the football league, Premier League and leagues beneath including Wales and the money generated shared in the interests of the greater good instead of the wealthy elite.

fair enough. But why including Wales? Why not including Scotland France or Italy?

[chipdawg]

http://www.cardiffci...000/index.shtml

Cardiff and Swansea will now come under the auspices of the Football Association. Personally I think it is the right thing.

Of course, it won't be enough to satisfy some of the more militant anti-Welsh out there, but it is nonetheless a good thing and removes the total myth that Cardiff and Swansea get preferential treatment from the FAW (which was always total fantasy anyway)

So then what's previously been said on here about UEFA vetoing any move for Cardiff and Swansea to come under the jurisdiction of the English FA was lies then?

I'm glad you agree its a good thing, i suspect that most Cardiff/Swansea fans would probably agree that its the only viable option in the long term. While i see no point in trawling through google looking for examples of favouritism (impossible to prove, although the aforementioned Purse one was fairly damning IMO), it removes all doubt that you'll be treated in the same way

I think everyone needs to calm down about allowing Welsh teams in the Football League/Premier League; its not like Cardiff and Swansea have only joined the league, they've been there since way before any of us were watching football. As much as The Welsh like to maintain their cultural identity, it has been a region of the UK for hundreds of years. You could actually argue that Wales is more a part of England than the northeast, Yorkshire or Cumbria and i don't see why it has its own league, FA or even national team and it certainly shouldn't have its own parliament. However, that doesn't exclude it from playing in the Football League and i think its a bit of a moot point

BTW, now you're goverened by the FA, does that mean that you'll be investigated for the 3rd party ownership issues surrounding former Coventry chairman Ray Ranson's 'part-ownership' of your players?

[chipdawg]

Mate, game in game out we get abuse for representing a Welsh club. Do you hear us moan about it? It's banter, it's part of the game.

We aren't a bunch of timid shrews. We aren't going to sit there, listening to anti-welsh tirades EVERY away game without giving something back. Who started it? I don't know. But it's banter.

Support for independence in Wales is about 10%. The vast bulk of Cardiff fans are proud to be Welsh and proud to be British (and indeed, we have many English fans too- I personally have a friend from Bristol and a friend from London who support Cardiff after moving here). We aren't anti-English per se. It's banter. We read English papers, watch English TV, live in a city that is 25% English. The same can't be said for understanding of Welsh culture in places like Burnley, Middlesbrough or Bristol. The latter, I must say has a shocking level of anti-Welsh feeling amongst some residents. Either way, a genuine dislike of another country or region is always, always wrong. I hate ignorance and intolerance on all sides.

I'm going off track here, but the fact remains that the football league always was, and still is a league open to clubs from England and from Wales. That's the way it is. Sometimes things don't fit the nice little holes that some nationalist want, but so be it.

This is our league as much as it is yours.

And if you want cheering up, be aware that Swansea will probably field more English players next year than any of the teams representing England in the champions league.

I say good luck, or 'pob lwc' to Swansea.

And to what level do you understand the culture of Bristol, Middlesborough or Burnley?

[Fodbarmyarmy]

Not the play offs, the FA cup final they lost to Pompey.

Oh no.....here we go again then.................What was a Welsh Club doing in the English FA Cup final?

[Frome Valley]

fair enough. But why including Wales? Why not including Scotland France or Italy?

Welsh teams are part of the tradition of the English and Welsh league and Scotland, France or Italy are not.

Scotland and Italy have had teams from England and San Marino in their leagues.

One of the reasons for formation of the English and Welsh league was geography. The South of France on a tuesday night would be more than cats could manage.

[Jordan Tansley]

I think it's quite embarrassing for the welsh that they can only be successful in sport when they tag along to the English. We should just go the whole hog and remove the "r" from country and make them a county of the nation they clearly aspire to be a part of!

[RedZepperin]

We ... live in a city that is 25% English.

An interesting stat.

Is it based on fact or just some more crap you've made up?

[CardiffBlackLabel]

you hate ignorance but your going to label entire English cities as having no understanding of Welsh culture? ok.

I am willing to suggest that most residents of Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham have a better grasp of English culture than people in Middlesbrough, Burnley or Bristol have of Welsh culture

A huge chunk of the media we consume is from England. I don't imagine many people in Burnley tune into S4C. I doubt many in Bristol are avidly following the latest debates in the senedd, and I'm certain there isn't much enthusiasm for the urdd eisteddfod currently taking place in Swansea, amongst the people of Middlesbrough.

Anyway, we are all British and we should celebrate the diversity and beauty of our islands collectively in my opinion.

This of course, is all going way off topic. My point remains that the football league represents clubs from England and Wales and always has done.

If we wiped away 100 years of history and politics and started from the year dot, then we may do things differently, but that goes for many aspects and traditions of our society.

I don't really see what benefit kicking out Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport, COlwyn Bay and Merthyr Town would bring rather than appease a few puritans who favour a strict interpretation of national and regional boundaries over decades of tradition and legal and moral precedent.

Again, well done to the Jacks. Still bastards, but one's who can pass the ball better and fight for their club a damned site better than the players who represent my team.

[Chivs]

Yeah, because everyone in Wales thinks with one collective voice. Ridiculous.

Fail.

Oh dear. Did you fail to rearrange the words? I'm not sure what a collective voice has to do with it.

I'll ask you personally. Do you think it is right that Wales can have its own legislature and health policy yet combine with England when it comes to football?

Do you think it is right that Wales have their own national team, yet combine with England for the club competitions? The same question applies to England of course.

I don't believe it is right. My solution is that England and Wales have their own national teams and their club teams play in their own leagues.

Consistency, is all it's about. What do you think?

[CardiffBlackLabel]

An interesting stat.

Is it based on fact or just some more crap you've made up?

I'm happy to be corrected on this.

Cardiff is 75% Welsh. 17% English and 8% born elsewhere in the world. Expect the English born and rest of the world born population to increase when the 2011 data is released.

Fact remains that walk down a Cardiff street and more or less every fifth person was born in England.

I'm not sure what the point of the thread is now though!!

[CardiffBlackLabel]

Oh dear. Did you fail to rearrange the words? I'm not sure what a collective voice has to do with it.

I'll ask you personally. Do you think it is right that Wales can have its own legislature and health policy yet combine with England when it comes to football?

Do you think it is right that Wales have their own national team, yet combine with England for the club competitions? The same question applies to England of course.

I don't believe it is right. My solution is that England and Wales have their own national teams and their club teams play in their own leagues.

Consistency, is all it's about. What do you think?

1/ Yes. Wales has a devolved government. The people of Wales (slimly) voted for it in 1997. Health is a devolved matter, and so yes it is right that health policy is determined in Cardiff Bay. England has a de-facto health policy. The vast majority of references to the NHS that we all hear on the news refers to England only. Votes in parliament on the NHS only refer to the English NHS. If England want's free prescriptions, then the MP's could vote for it. Personally, I would rather we didn't have free prescriptions. I would rather the Welsh NHS focused it's money elsewhere. Two other points. When we get free prescriptions, it takes money from other parts of the Welsh NHS. Also, I totally support the banning of Welsh/Scottish/N.Irish MP's voting on English only matters. It's totally immoral.

2/Why not? It's an anomoly, but anomolies exist all over the place. Wales and England have traditionally had combined leagues and seperate national teams. We'd have to go back a century and more to work out why. I personally don't know the reasons, but I don't see any reason to change them now. It's all part of the puzzle of the United Kingdom, and our complex and intertwined legal, sporting, cultural institutions.

3/As I've said before, if you wiped out history and started again then Welsh clubs would play in the Welsh Premier League. It would probably be a decent league, akin to Switzerland, Norway or Sweden. However, that isn't the case. It's a combined league and the Welsh clubs that play in the Football League and Premier league have as much right to be there as any other club. It's no more your league than our league. Sure, we take and give out a bit of abuse sometimes, it's a bit of a laugh, but it's our league too and I really have never seen a convincing argument to change that situation.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

An opinion is obviously fine, but it's not the English league. It's the football league which represents clubs from both England and Wales.

Life aint always black and white butty.

The real problem is butty, that Welsh clubs play in the football league but hide behind the FAW and claim their Welshness when they are any in trouble and the FAW do not meat out justice the way that the football league does, you cannot have it both ways.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Who went on to be Danny Wilson's starting XI.