Mr Popodopolous Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 The real problem is butty, that Welsh clubs play in the football league but hide behind the FAW and claim their Welshness when they are any in trouble and the FAW do not meat out justice the way that the football league does, you cannot have it both ways. All about perception I guess- listening to various phone ins last night, heard Swansea fans saying that actually they have wanted for some time to come under the auspices of English FA. Additionally, another common view seemed to be that in terms of not wishing to be seen as biased for Swansea (though Cardiff was not mentioned), FAW would actually overcompensate in terms of harshness of punishment. Cardiff could be a different case though, who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 I am willing to suggest that most residents of Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham have a better grasp of English culture than people in Middlesbrough, Burnley or Bristol have of Welsh culture Yes, but do the vast majority of Cardiff residents have any grasp of the culture of Lancashire or Teeside(North Yorks/Northumbria) or Bristol/Somerset? I would argue that culturally those areas are just as distinct from the London-centric media portrayal of 'English Cutlure' as Wales is, its just that they don't have their own TV station and legislation that states all the road signs have to be written in a language which less than 10% of the population can speak. It was only a couple of generations ago that Cornwall, Cumbria, Lancashire and Yorkshire had their own distinct dialects and in the case of the former two areas, language I agree that Swansea and Cardiff should be in the Football League because culturally, geographically and politically Wales is no different in relation to 'England' than Yorkshire, Northumbria or Norfolk, save for a lot of money being thrown at it and a lot of shouting by a minority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardiffBlackLabel Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Yes, but do the vast majority of Cardiff residents have any grasp of the culture of Lancashire or Teeside(North Yorks/Northumbria) or Bristol/Somerset? I would argue that culturally those areas are just as distinct from the London-centric media portrayal of 'English Cutlure' as Wales is, its just that they don't have their own TV station and legislation that states all the road signs have to be written in a language which less than 10% of the population can speak. It was only a couple of generations ago that Cornwall, Cumbria, Lancashire and Yorkshire had their own distinct dialects and in the case of the former two areas, language I agree that Swansea and Cardiff should be in the Football League because culturally, geographically and politically Wales is no different in relation to 'England' than Yorkshire, Northumbria or Norfolk, save for a lot of money being thrown at it and a lot of shouting by a minority With respect, I don't agree with that. I absolutely agree that each region, indeed each town or city, has it's own wonderful unique traits and cultures, but I don't see at all how you can say that Wales is on a par with Yorkshire or Norfolk in terms of how it differentiates from the London cultural 'norm'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 With respect, I don't agree with that. I absolutely agree that each region, indeed each town or city, has it's own wonderful unique traits and cultures, but I don't see at all how you can say that Wales is on a par with Yorkshire or Norfolk in terms of how it differentiates from the London cultural 'norm'. I wouldn't expect you to, in the same way that as a Yorkshireman (even though not by birth) i fail to see the difference- apart from the presence of a well-funded nationalist minority. As i said, It has only ben in recent years that some of the more remmote farming communities in North and West Yorkshire have been brought up speaking the 'Queens English' and the northern counties of England only came under the control of the British Crown following the 'Harrying of the North' in the 1080's- only 250 years or so before Wales. It could be argued that we defied said rule until the House of York ended up on the thrown and even later than that, the Luddite uprising was centred in Yorkshire and Lancashire. Yorkshire (and this is purely as an example, any number of regions would be applicable) has its own distinct religious and social customs, dialect, cuisine... even architecture from other regions of the UK. While there is a much greater expression of Welsh cultural identity on the national stage, the sense of Yorkshire 'pride' is every bit as great as that in Wales. Feel free to explain to me As i said, as far as i'm concerned Wales is another county of the UK and should be treated as such in all matters- be it football league membership or political rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Welsh teams are part of the tradition of the English and Welsh league and Scotland, France or Italy are not. Scotland and Italy have had teams from England and San Marino in their leagues. One of the reasons for formation of the English and Welsh league was geography. The South of France on a tuesday night would be more than cats could manage. no. a few Welsh teams are. 'have had' but dont anymore? Times move on. there is only one reason for a few welsh teams to still be playing against English teams and that is because they get far more money for doing so. They will come up with no end of reasons for keeping it as it is but there is only one - money. Money that could be going to english teams who are held back from progressing up the league in their own country because places are taken by teams from another country. their places should be taken by english teams playing each other in an english league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 I am willing to suggest that most residents of Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham have a better grasp of English culture than people in Middlesbrough, Burnley or Bristol have of Welsh culture A huge chunk of the media we consume is from England. I don't imagine many people in Burnley tune into S4C. I doubt many in Bristol are avidly following the latest debates in the senedd, and I'm certain there isn't much enthusiasm for the urdd eisteddfod currently taking place in Swansea, amongst the people of Middlesbrough. Anyway, we are all British and we should celebrate the diversity and beauty of our islands collectively in my opinion. This of course, is all going way off topic. My point remains that the football league represents clubs from England and Wales and always has done. If we wiped away 100 years of history and politics and started from the year dot, then we may do things differently, but that goes for many aspects and traditions of our society. I don't really see what benefit kicking out Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport, COlwyn Bay and Merthyr Town would bring rather than appease a few puritans who favour a strict interpretation of national and regional boundaries over decades of tradition and legal and moral precedent. Again, well done to the Jacks. Still bastards, but one's who can pass the ball better and fight for their club a damned site better than the players who represent my team. it would allow english teams to progress up the league ladder in their own country without being hindered by a few welsh teams who are only there because they want the money another country provides them with rather than to represent and compete in their own league. what moral precedent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Cardiff is the only place where i've seen drunk girls pull there knickers aside and piss in the gutter. I was gobsmacked...The Welsh lad i was with said not to worry, this was normal practice on a weekend. Just sharing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frome Valley Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 no. a few Welsh teams are. 'have had' but dont anymore? Times move on. there is only one reason for a few welsh teams to still be playing against English teams and that is because they get far more money for doing so. They will come up with no end of reasons for keeping it as it is but there is only one - money. Money that could be going to english teams who are held back from progressing up the league in their own country because places are taken by teams from another country. their places should be taken by english teams playing each other in an english league. Have had reads still do and they are not the only leagues in europe. The English and Welsh league offers progression for ambitious teams. The welsh teams don't hold anybody up because it all falls down to winning and losing, if the team is good enough it progresses e.g Swansea, if it is weak itb will fail e.g Newport or Bristol City 79 - 81. Any Welsh side of substance would look to the traditional route to better themslves via the age old route already available. It could be argued that mixing nations improves the standard of football because the likes of Forest Green or Bath will have to be better than Newport as well as have the correct facilities. The only reason I can see for altering the traditional decades old staus quo would be to regonalise the lower divsions again on North v South lines similar to the fifties and bolster this with a proper reserve leagues throughout the pyramid of England and Wales . This would offer structure, competitive football and cut costs for clubs like Bristol City, Cardiff etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Flipping heck lads, give CBL a break will you! He's got the balls to come on here and congratulate Swansea on their promotion and all he's got is crap back! I dislike C*rdiff as much as the next person on here, but this is turning into one boring thread (yeah, I know, I don't have to read it) CBL - fair shout for coming on and stating your points. For what it's worth I like having you boys and Swansea in the league, some of my earliest (and scariest!) memories are of City - Newport games. We've got the G*s who are an insignificance to us right now, imagine how boring it would be if C*rdiff pissed off to the Welsh League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted May 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Flipping heck lads, give CBL a break will you! He's got the balls to come on here and congratulate Swansea on their promotion and all he's got is crap back! I dislike C*rdiff as much as the next person on here, but this is turning into one boring thread (yeah, I know, I don't have to read it) CBL - fair shout for coming on and stating your points. For what it's worth I like having you boys and Swansea in the league, some of my earliest (and scariest!) memories are of City - Newport games. We've got the G*s who are an insignificance to us right now, imagine how boring it would be if C*rdiff pissed off to the Welsh League You're going soft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 You're going soft! Ha! Maybe I am mate, just can't be arsed to argue in the summer, I'll save my venom for August! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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