Andy082005 Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 We've been spoiled horrendously since the early 90s in terms of success, and since '99 last year was our only finish outside of the top 10. Not many clubs reach feats like that, and a couple of seasons of mediocrity (10th doesn't count, sorry) isn't going to harm anyone long term. Crowds come and go, the more fickle amongst us will be back the moment they smell a good cup run or a shot at promotion. I wouldn't use the words "spoiled horrendously with success" haha, that made me chuckle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I had an insightful conversation with a bunch of lads down the pub last night. All were/are City Supporters, but have stopped going since roughly midway through last season. All have been going regularly since their teens and are now in their 30's/40's. The usual reasons came out... Too expensive, Boring football, Not entertaining, No atmosphere, too many restrictions etc,etc,etc. What did suprise me though, is they all to a man said, that they feel let down by the Club. Full of hollow promises, poorly managed, poor decision making. They felt that after all the furore of our promotion season, the Club have gone backwards and overspent on poor quality signings. They said that 'why should we keep paying good money, to see a Club going nowhere, and money needlessly frittered away'. They now felt they were being offered a product of inferior quality, run on a shoestring, and that the fans were having to suffer because of mistakes made by the Club. They have had enough...and felt it was unfair of the Club to expect fans to just turn up and support and pay good money, when the Club has been run like an Amateur outfit in the last couple of seasons... Now don't shoot the messenger, but i sort of understood where they were coming from. I've supported City through thick and thin, but i must admit, i've met more 'fans' in recent months who have said similar. Have casual fans had enough?...what's your experience in talking to others. It's rather disturbing when you think of the plans for the future... results bring fans and we haven't been getting the results consitantly enough since the play-offs, hence the crowd not growing, if and a big if we put a run together of 10 unbeaten with 7 wins starting sunday against cardiff then the fans will get their fire again and start turning up, For the fan base its an important season another year like last year and you can shave 2000 off the crowd a decent one and get in and around the play-offs you can add 2000 such is the life of city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westex red Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Can see what some of you mean, but going down the gate since 1964, and an ex "East End Looney" becomes a bit of a habit, you take the good times with the bad, and even when I think this is all going t*ts up, I come back for more, and renew the old season ticket, cos I cant do with not going down, must be a sad 57 year old Bast*rd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I had an insightful conversation with a bunch of lads down the pub last night. All were/are City Supporters, but have stopped going since roughly midway through last season. All have been going regularly since their teens and are now in their 30's/40's. The usual reasons came out... Too expensive, Boring football, Not entertaining, No atmosphere, too many restrictions etc,etc,etc What did suprise me though, is they all to a man said, that they feel let down by the Club. Full of hollow promises, poorly managed, poor decision making. They felt that after all the furore of our promotion season, the Club have gone backwards and overspent on poor quality signings. They said that 'why should we keep paying good money, to see a Club going nowhere, and money needlessly frittered away'. They now felt they were being offered a product of inferior quality, run shoestring, and that the fans were having to suffer because of mistakes made by the Club. They have had enough...and felt it was unfair of the Club to expect fans to just tup and support and pay good money, when the Club has been run like an Amateur outfit in the last couple of seasons... Spudski was you chatting to me and mates down the Lions the other night because that's what I and other people I speak to feel about the club. It was not the fans rising the prospect of Promotion but it was the chairman aims and now we have Milen coming out saying we can finish in the top two. We must be unique in the country that it is the club who higher expections and the fans try to dampen them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I wouldn't use the words "spoiled horrendously with success" haha, that made me chuckle You won't find that many clubs enjoying top 10 finishes over such a sustained period outside of the PL. Every team goes through phases of success and failure; this is our comparative 'failure' if you like, and until the wage bill is lowered id be surprised to see any stark change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 You won't find that many clubs enjoying top 10 finishes over such a sustained period outside of the PL. Every team goes through phases of success and failure; this is our comparative 'failure' if you like, and until the wage bill is lowered id be surprised to see any stark change. I agree with your post in a sense, but I would hardly say we've been spoiled with success. If success you mean "not many relegations".....then yes, we've been successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUMMAT OUTTA NOWT Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 How many clubs in this division have had the benefit of Premier League spiral payments. Got to be 80% of them but we have still managed to compete with these teams on much bigger budgets. My concionce constantly tells me these supposed athletes on the ridiculous weekly wage they earn is so not right. but that is not going to change anytime soon. Regardless of what it costs you still go as its in your blood but I see where the financial side is making it a non viable option. Like it or not regular supporters are being priced out of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 It's not only regular supporters who are feeling the pinch and watching the pennies,. It's part of the next generation of supporters who will also miss out. I cant afford to take my kids anymore, and i bet there are countless supporters who support City but cant afford tickets for both themselves and their children. especially when there are two home fixtures in a week. With what is being dished up at the moment, i am better off paying the bills on time, at least i get something back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Another interesting point, I couldn't help thinking that life is strange when you can go from news reports about riots and "poor" or "greedy" people stealing goods, into sports news about individuals being traded between clubs for multi millions of pounds. Couldn't be some connection between the two could there? In a football context a new austerity was predicted as a result of the state of the world and the financial fair play rules. Nothing of the sort has happened of course; Samir Nasri turns down a mere £90k a week at Arsenal because Man City will pay him twice that for instance (though of course he will say the money has nothing to do with it), while Wayne Rooney's concerns about United's transfer policy disappear when he gets a massive pay rise. For me any disillusion with the club is compounded by a disillusion with the game in general. It has become deeply corrupt (morally and in some cases legally) and is being bled dry by players and their hangers on. While a few top players may justify their money on the back of the funds they generate a huge number of very average players are making a very nice living without the talent to justify it, in the Championship and at our club as much as in the PL. I am forced to pay bonuses to the very people who brought the world economy to its knees and to pay expenses to corrupt, self-serving politicians (the very ones who condemn others for stealing and get away with doing the same themselves) with my taxes. I choose not to line the pockets of footballers any more and I suspect I am not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimgoeswest Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 IMO, its not just City, its football in general. Greedy players, greedy agents and the huge amounts of money being injected into certain clubs are ruining our national sport. The gulf between the haves and the have nots is now wider than ever. The Premier league are only interested in protecting themselves. Do you think City will ever be able to compete with the big boys? People are justifyably getting sick of it. The casual fan will pay to be entertained on the pitch. They will also attend if the club is doing well and the result is meaningful. Its a vicious circle, if we provide an afternoons entertainment and we are successful people will drift back. Otherwise fans will continue to drift away and lose interest, its inevitable. I now live in the New Forest and like a lot of my friends I pick my games very carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 City have been a huge part of my life for the past 30 years, i have followed through thick and thin, have spent countless thousands of pounds travelling up and down the country and have always, regardless of the result, enjoyed it. Sometimes the result or the performance did not matter, it was about following "My Team" I now no longer feel like that, i'm falling out of love, like a messy divorce. I see no ambition from the club, no direction, no nothing, we're treading water waiting for something to happen. Last weeks Ipswich game was it for me, people on here go on about if it was not for the 3 mistakes we wouldn't have lost, yes we would, Ipswich would merely have raised their game, they were playing with us and did what they had to do. They were playing in their comfort zone. Normally i would be like a kid in a sweet shop on opening day of the season, last week it felt like i was attending the funeral of a close friend, a completely dour event, i was straight out the gate after the third went in and they'll be lucky to see me back this season. Like households all over the country, money is tight and in years gone by i would have found savings elsewhere so i could attend City, not now. it's the first thing to go. The club is going backwards and risks losing some of its core support, as well as failing to entice others to attend. A point to note, there used to be a gang of us that would go to city, always 6 at other times 10+. last week one of us went, me. The others were until recently season ticket holders, they say theres no fun there anymore, no entertainment. It's depressing. The club is soulless, lifeless and that a'int good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 City have been a huge part of my life for the past 30 years, i have followed through thick and thin, have spent countless thousands of pounds travelling up and down the country and have always, regardless of the result, enjoyed it. Sometimes the result or the performance did not matter, it was about following "My Team" I now no longer feel like that, i'm falling out of love, like a messy divorce. I see no ambition from the club, no direction, no nothing, we're treading water waiting for something to happen. Last weeks Ipswich game was it for me, people on here go on about if it was not for the 3 mistakes we wouldn't have lost, yes we would, Ipswich would merely have raised their game, they were playing with us and did what they had to do. They were playing in their comfort zone. Normally i would be like a kid in a sweet shop on opening day of the season, last week it felt like i was attending the funeral of a close friend, a completely dour event, i was straight out the gate after the third went in and they'll be lucky to see me back this season. Like households all over the country, money is tight and in years gone by i would have found savings elsewhere so i could attend City, not now. it's the first thing to go. The club is going backwards and risks losing some of its core support, as well as failing to entice others to attend. A point to note, there used to be a gang of us that would go to city, always 6 at other times 10+. last week one of us went, me. The others were until recently season ticket holders, they say theres no fun there anymore, no entertainment. It's depressing. The club is soulless, lifeless and that a'int good. I also feel the same way...and from talking to others, many, many people feel this way too. I will be going this season, but i too will be picking my games. If there is something else more fun to do on any particular weekend, then i'll be doing that instead. I never thought i'd get to this point in my life...but i actually don't miss going to watch City anymore. I felt the same last season...but the Ipswich game, regardless of the result, summed it all up for me. I looked around and saw all the glum faces, the ashen looks, no one smiling, no one having fun...it did feel like a funeral. Something is not right down there...and it's a culmination of so many things. Tbh i've seen more atmosphere in my local library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I agree with your post in a sense, but I would hardly say we've been spoiled with success. If success you mean "not many relegations".....then yes, we've been successful. Success need not be termed by promotions, obviously we havent hit the heights of Doncaster, Yeovil, Hull, Blackpool etc. during the past decade, but pretty much by definition a top 10 finish suggests a flirtation with the playoffs during a season at worst, which brings the excitement and more importantly crowds. Also interesting to note that much as we are, all the teams I mentioned are going through periods of mediocrity just now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Success need not be termed by promotions, obviously we havent hit the heights of Doncaster, Yeovil, Hull, Blackpool etc. during the past decade, but pretty much by definition a top 10 finish suggests a flirtation with the playoffs during a season at worst, which brings the excitement and more importantly crowds. Also interesting to note that much as we are, all the teams I mentioned are going through periods of mediocrity just now. True enough. The play off final season in hindsight was a bad thing as it raised expectations, not just among fans but Steve's as well and some perspective was lost. Nevertheless I firmly believe most fans this year do not have unrealistic expectations; it is the club who are rather foolishly talking about promotion at the same time as saying we are in such a dire state that we cannot afford a further loan. Such an obvious disjoint only serves to increase cynicism, like Keith claiming we have played well when we clearly haven't, the equivalent of George Osborne telling us the economy is in great shape as another recession looms. Football fans are not as stupid as those in the game think and can take a bit of honesty. Still what most fans will accept I believe are signs of progress and improvement. Instead it is more of the same. Don't underestimate either the sheer boredom factor of seeing the same players for years on end (and many of them making the same mistakes over and over like some football groundhog day). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 That's very true Jordan, but you have to see it from the family mans point of view, the casual supporter. By percentage comparison, SL has provided good money that has been frittered away on many poor signings. Now we are in debt because of that overspending, he has pulled out and said enough is enough. However the supporter is still being asked to spend nearly £30 to go and watch 90 mins of football. That £30 is a lot of money to many fans and their family. Many have done the same as SL...walked away and said 'enough is enough, i'm no longer willing to bankroll a club with my hard earned cash, and see it frittered away, and spent on the wages of poor footballers who are living the life while i struggle'. SL has withdrawn his finacial support from what it used to be, and many fans have followed suit. Does the 20 million debt hurt SL's lifestyle as much as asking a casual family of four approx £100 a game. Ask many whether that £100 is value for 90 mins entertainment...when it can be spent more prudently over a period of time on other things. I don't understand where you're getting the impression that Lansdown has "pulled the plug", Spudski. I know you have issues with the board and I fully respect that but in this instance I feel you're trying to attribute blame to the wrong men. It cannot be held against Lansdown that he backed the previous manager/s to the hilt, and it cannot be held against him that the money he invested in what he (like us) perceived to be a knowledgeable manager. By that stretch I don't think anyone with the best interests of the club (Which so many people insist is bigger than any individual, which surely also includes the fair-weather fans) at heart could possibly be annoyed that now the club has backed a couple of managers (and also the current one) and acknowledged that there were mistakes made. Those mistakes need rectifying for the long term good of the club. I do not link it to '82 lightly having been brought up with the stories of how close I was to not having a football club to support, but that's how it is starting to go. I agree with you to a certain extent, but I do agree with the original poster. For me, deep down...its not the lack of signings thats bothered me. Its how this club has been managed over the last couple of years. When we got promoted from League 1, Lansdown said this time would be different, and the board would not make the same mistakes that the club made back in 1998. Back then we overspent on crap, didn't make the correct changes when was needed to help the club evolve and basically went backwards very, very quickly. We may not be going backwards as fast as we did back in 1998....but we are going backwards. We had one great season after we got promoted, but that was very much riding the crest of promotion. Do you not agree that this club is ran in a very amateur way? As some of the people Spudski knows has said, its got to the point with me where im so disillusioned by it I can pretty much take it or leave it. I genuinely only go now, because I've been doing it so long its "the norm". I look at our club and see so many people who are having an easy ride, in their cushty little job they've had for years because they are safe and secure. It makes me angry and sad. For me, the club is so stale.....right the way through. This is something that I could see some 2 years ago (I've said on here before I wanted change after we drew 1-1 with Ipswich over the Easter in 2009, for me the writing was on the wall).....yet now, 2 years and 4 months on from this game, we still got the same stale set up, the same amateur mentality as a club and still have this old boys brigade mentality. Ok, Coppell was unfortunate and we will never know what really happened. I was over the moon with his appointment, however questioned it the day after he got it!! He had been out of a job for a year yet "wanted a holiday and wouldnt be at the remaining games". For me, I dont believe for one second Coppell was all enthiusiastic when meeting with Lansdown....and was maybe more talked into taken the job, then actually wanting it. There must have been some indication that he wasnt completely up for the job....surely? just my opinion though, like i said we will never know. I really thought this club was going places a couple of years ago. Being an England and Bristol City fan, ive always come to expect very little.....but the last couple of years I really bought into the whole new vision that Lansdown and co. set out, and thought things were going to be different. Of course I agree that the club hasn't been run properly, So far I see the new board as trying hard to change that and focussing on balancing the books or at least reducing our ridiculous outgoings. I'm still struggling to see why this is being seen as a bad thing. I hate to harbour the point but It only seems to be the older generation who are complaining about this aspect which is particularly dumbfounding when you consider most have direct experience of '82. I don't know anyone my age who is as disenchanted as some of the "old gaurd" which is odd considering the often volatile "I'm a better fan because I've been going since we were bottom of division 4" bollocks that is aimed at those "younger fans" I can't agree that it's stale, Andy. I think the club is now focussed on the long term future rather than JUST short term fixes that don't actually solve the problem. Obviously the loan market is being utilised as best as we can, but the benefits far outweigh the negatives of that particular "short term fix" The board have not yet done anything, but you can see that they have the right attitude to our increasing debts and are trying to move away from the "amateurish" way it was run before. How can that be a bad thing? It's nothing to do with common sense. The countries finances are in a mess, we're forced to accept cuts and pay higher taxes for poorer services. Bristol City's finances in a mess. People have the option of deciding if they pay for the substandard entertainment being offered. Common sense has encouraged many discerning fans not to do so. You've completely missed the point of my post. The people Spudski has quoted in his post were saying that they were both disenchanted by the lack of signings and the prior mismanagement under SL and GJ/SC. That viewpoint lacks common sense. either they want to see the club run properly (which the new board are trying to do) or they want the club to continue to spend beyond it's means. Unfortunately the state of the clubs current finances means it is one or the other and to moan about both is quite silly really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Alligator Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Nice one spudski - most interesting post I've read on OTIB for a good while - glad to see it hasn't been overwhelmed by the usual sychophantic nonsense that seems to dominate. This is the sort of stuff that those running the club should be reading. It's not sensationalist nor knee-jerk, just a reflection of the mindset that a lot of long standing BCFC fans have been in for a while now - I include myself. Football, at any level, is about progress. Irrespective of what may have happened in our first championship season and the possibility of unrealistically heightened expectations , many of us feel that the club is going backwards. Clearly we are in an extremely competitive league with many clubs having far greater financial clout than us, yet we still seem to be dogged by poor investments in the transfer market and an inability to attract (or indeed unearth) players capable of improving upon what we currently have. I'm sure there may be deepseated reasons for this, but surely those running the club need to address this once and for all. I must admit that going into last week's game with Ipswich my feelings were mostly that things couldn't turn out as bad as last seasons opener against Millwall!! I did renew my longstanding season ticket, however, like you, was talking to others in the pub on Saturday who decided not to for all the reasons you and others have cited. Transfer activity over the summer was disappointing (and baffling in terms of incoming players) considering what we all know about the current squad and its needs. Pre season performances and results (again!) were a worrying sign. My heart sank too when we heard the starting eleven - what was new? - why should we be any better/stronger/just plain different than we were through the latter part of last season? This season will undoubtedly be tough - but the club needs to think seriously about the strategy for the next few seasons at least. Same old, same old will not work. The new stadium could add some fire and enthusiasm and perhaps lift all of us, but let's not rely on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I don't understand where you're getting the impression that Lansdown has "pulled the plug", Spudski. I know you have issues with the board and I fully respect that but in this instance I feel you're trying to attribute blame to the wrong men. It cannot be held against Lansdown that he backed the previous manager/s to the hilt, and it cannot be held against him that the money he invested in what he (like us) perceived to be a knowledgeable manager. By that stretch I don't think anyone with the best interests of the club (Which so many people insist is bigger than any individual, which surely also includes the fair-weather fans) at heart could possibly be annoyed that now the club has backed a couple of managers (and also the current one) and acknowledged that there were mistakes made. Those mistakes need rectifying for the long term good of the club. I do not link it to '82 lightly having been brought up with the stories of how close I was to not having a football club to support, but that's how it is starting to go. Of course I agree that the club hasn't been run properly, So far I see the new board as trying hard to change that and focussing on balancing the books or at least reducing our ridiculous outgoings. I'm still struggling to see why this is being seen as a bad thing. I hate to harbour the point but It only seems to be the older generation who are complaining about this aspect which is particularly dumbfounding when you consider most have direct experience of '82. I don't know anyone my age who is as disenchanted as some of the "old gaurd" which is odd considering the often volatile "I'm a better fan because I've been going since we were bottom of division 4" bollocks that is aimed at those "younger fans" I can't agree that it's stale, Andy. I think the club is now focussed on the long term future rather than JUST short term fixes that don't actually solve the problem. Obviously the loan market is being utilised as best as we can, but the benefits far outweigh the negatives of that particular "short term fix" The board have not yet done anything, but you can see that they have the right attitude to our increasing debts and are trying to move away from the "amateurish" way it was run before. How can that be a bad thing? You've completely missed the point of my post. The people Spudski has quoted in his post were saying that they were both disenchanted by the lack of signings and the prior mismanagement under SL and GJ/SC. That viewpoint lacks common sense. either they want to see the club run properly (which the new board are trying to do) or they want the club to continue to spend beyond it's means. Unfortunately the state of the clubs current finances means it is one or the other and to moan about both is quite silly really. I have no problem with them trying to balance the books in all honesty, it's important. I'm just bitter as I think over the last 3 years they have made mistake, after mistake, after mistake. We've been promised things, and I feel Lansdown has Left us in the lerch a bit. Only 15 months ago he was talking Premier League....now he has took a massive step back and has left the new look board to pick up his broken pieces and try to fix it. As for the stale comment, do you feel our current set up is going to take us forward as a club? Owers, Walshy, Naylor....2 of them have been there years! We need as much a change of personell behind the scenes as we do on the pitch! Millen said it himself when Coppell took over, new faces on the training ground bring new ideas. We've not evolved as a club in recent years, and I fail to see how our current set up can move this club forward long term? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Birkin Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 What a great thread, and sums up my feelings and thousands of others towards football today. It's been ruined by greedy, greedy bastards who have hijacked our national game. I know loads of old die hards who no longer give a flying duck for City or football today come to that. When we were kids back in the 70's the price of getting in was never ever an issue, today it's bloody ridiculous to pay near on £30 to watch City ! Due to work commitments I no longer am able to attend Saturday games, which I was dreading after following City all over the country since the early 70's, but do you know what ? I don' t miss it in the slightest now . My mates who still go say before and after the games by far the best part of the day. Thanks to all the money grabbing players and their agents, the inabiity of Chairmen to end the madness of ridiculous wages, the very life has been sucked out of the game we once all loved. I heard Ray Winstone do an interview earlier this year, saying exactly this, and how he wished all clubs would hurry up and go bust ,then we could kick out all the greedy selfish gits, and reclaim our clubs, get back to terraces, pay a tenner to get in, and have that bond back with players earning a respectable wage. I and thousands of others are fed up with Clubs taking the piss, as you're looked on as Lemming like mugs, despite what bluster they put on it. I feel it's now gone passed the tipping point and people have had enough of this sub standard product..........sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I always find the sort of stuff interesting. After the Cardiff 0-6 game a group of guys in their thirties who sit a couple of rows in front of me didn't return and they'd been sat there for several seasons. Perhaps it is just me but I'll never understand this. I understand moving away or not being able to afford going but I'm unable to understand simply stopping going after a few poor results. As for the club, yes, it has made several big mistakes in the transfer market, clearly wasted money and is now patently trying to cut back. I have absolutely no problem with this, frustration for me was watching Pulis systematically dismantle everything good, replacing it with shite or spending ages in League One playing Colchester and Wycombe, not having a fixture list that sees us face the likes of Leeds, West Ham and Forest. Perhaps because I don't have any need to have any connection at all with those who actually play for us (I'm 48 tomorrow, what do I realistically have in common with twenty something professional footballers?), but it is also because I see it as my team, not theirs.People like me who have watched us for 40 years plus are the permanency, not here today, gone tomorrow players and managers. My Dad, now into his 70s bless him, still goes (as he has for 50 years plus), is originally from BS3, as was his father and his father's father before him, we both understand that we are a medium ranking Championship club and are ok with that. My "matchday experience" (what an awful phrase that is) sees me walk to the ground and sit by intelligent, realistic supporters and enjoy their company and amusing comments. It costs me just the price of my admission, which at around £20 a game, seems like reasonable value to me. Everyone has their reasons for going or not but perhaps I shouldn't be on this forum as I'm fairly content with my lot...... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I have no problem with them trying to balance the books in all honesty, it's important. I'm just bitter as I think over the last 3 years they have made mistake, after mistake, after mistake. We've been promised things, and I feel Lansdown has Left us in the lerch a bit. Only 15 months ago he was talking Premier League....now he has took a massive step back and has left the new look board to pick up his broken pieces and try to fix it. As for the stale comment, do you feel our current set up is going to take us forward as a club? Owers, Walshy, Naylor....2 of them have been there years! We need as much a change of personell behind the scenes as we do on the pitch! Millen said it himself when Coppell took over, new faces on the training ground bring new ideas. We've not evolved as a club in recent years, and I fail to see how our current set up can move this club forward long term? I can't say I see it that way, Andy. He's still pumping the money in to the club and is still funding a brand spanking new stadium that will see many improvements to the infrastructure and therefore professionalism at the club. I think it's commendable that SL, good a chairman as he was, has taken responsibility for the mistakes made on his watch and given a new board the overall control of the club in the hope that they will not allow their support for the club cloud their judgement on big decisions. I don't see it as leaving them or us in the lurch at all. I get that people are disappointed as it did appear we were in a prime position to progress following the play off season. Lansdown did invest heavily and Johnson mispent and misused the money. One thing I will say is, there can be no surprises that promises in football get broken, It's very hard for these promises to come to fruition but I would like to think that you agree Lansdown did his best to ensure the man we all trusted (and we did) had the money to take us to the next level. I don't see why not, change doesn't necessarily mean improvement! I don't think it's very fair that you bring Owers into that though, he's been here for 5 minutes and has a pretty impressive knowledge of the game. Perhaps we do need a few additions to the coaching staff? I was one of those who agreed with you (I think it was you anyway) about the "jobs for the boys" mentality. I'm talking about the new ideas regarding the academy, talking about the improved scouting system Millen has talked about implementing. I'm talking about our links to big clubs that in the future will hopefully bare fruits. I'm talking about the new transfer policy of signing younger, hungrier players and I'm talking about the new stadium and what that will bring. Bad as it sounds, I cannot wait til the end of this season. When the 12 (?) players who are out of contract are let go/retained I think the club might be in a position to rekindle it's flirtation with the top end of the league. But hey, that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Spudski, I don't feel that SL has lost any interest. He's now a tax exile and has limited time to spend I'm this country. The day of the Ipswich game he was up at the training ground watching the Acadamy side in the morning. That is not the sign of a person who has lost interest IMO. Yes he has pulled the plug at the moment on any bigger signings, but there comes a time when the money being paid out to Stewart,Hunt etc each month must effect our finances. Two very decent earners who are sitting on there backsides whilst being paid big bucks. If SL was not interested then surely he would of taken Leicester's money for Maynard?. I agree with a lot of posters with relation to it not being the same at football nowadays,it's not the same anymore, no atmosphere not the same excitement. But, I don't think it's just our club mind. Success makes a huge difference, win 5 in a row and lifes great, lose 5 and it's depressing. I could not afford S/T for me and my 2 lads this season so it's pay on the day when I have money this season. After last Saturday I can't say I was to upset about not having a S/T, but I'm sure that will change as the season progresses, because Unfortunatley however bad we are, watching City is a drug for a lot of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 My "matchday experience" (what an awful phrase that is) sees me walk to the ground and sit by intelligent, realistic supporters and enjoy their company and amusing comments. It costs me just the price of my admission, which at around £20 a game, seems like reasonable value to me. . You're very lucky to be able to walk to the ground, and you obviously have a season ticket and are able to give up every other Saturday to the football. For £20, watching the footy and enjoying the company of friends is all very reasonable. But for many,many fans this is not possible, as there is a lot of travel, time and extra cost involved. When you add it all up, the 'matchday experience' is not value for money. Having a team to watch within walking distance, for many, means going to watch their local non league side, for similar expenditure and experience. For example... I know quiet a lot of people who were going to turn up last Tuesday to see Swindon. For a tenner, they were prepared to pay the little extra in travel, and make the effort to get across town. Because of restrictions, H&S, Policing, Segregation of fans and various other policies, Clubs would rather have knowledge of how many fans are coming along in attendance. If they could sell out the stadium to season ticket holders they would. But more and more people lead such hectic family lives, they cannot commit fully to a season ticket, and going everyweek. I think Clubs need to realise this, and find a way if possible, of creating an area in the ground, where people can turn up on the day/night, pay a normal fee by cash, and not have to pay a premium to do so. It's probably not possible to do it, in this day and age, but i really can't see the casual supporter continually being asked to pay £30 for 90 mins non entertainment. Has anyone any suggestions on how this could be achieved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookey Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 This must be one of the best and thought provoking threads in the history of OTIB. My own tview is that to stir the blood of fans a club needs a "star" signing each season; someone who you are really looking forward to seeing play. It didn't happen this season and to make things worse none of the new signings started the first match so we saw the same faces with the same weaknesses both individually and as a team that we saw all last season. Failing that you need to play the more promising youngsters - give them a chance - that excites fans too. I hope I am wrong but I think Millen's mentality seems to be I know what I like and I like what I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 This must be one of the best and thought provoking threads in the history of OTIB. My own tview is that to stir the blood of fans a club needs a "star" signing each season; someone who you are really looking forward to seeing play. It didn't happen this season and to make things worse none of the new signings started the first match so we saw the same faces with the same weaknesses both individually and as a team that we saw all last season. Failing that you need to play the more promising youngsters - give them a chance - that excites fans too. I hope I am wrong but I think Millen's mentality seems to be I know what I like and I like what I know. There is something in that I think. Good, bad or indifferent fans can simply get bored with seeing the same players over a long period (unless they are a Scholes or a Giggs!). There has been a turnover in our squad over the last 4 years but almost exclusively in attack. In midfield and defence we are by and large seeing the same old faces. Had we had proper planning over that period we would be in a whole lot better position now . And on your final point Keith had the opportunity to freshen things up by picking say Wilson and Kilkenny and decided to go with the usual suspects as if they would suddenly improve. He is not alone though in having his favourites and picking them regardless of what the actually do on the pitch. Danny Wilson preferred Roberts to Lita and saw no reason to pick Rosenior ahead of his favourite "lads". The thing with football managers is that they are as flawed and prejudiced as the rest of us. Sometimes I could swear they are almost human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 True enough. The play off final season in hindsight was a bad thing as it raised expectations, not just among fans but Steve's as well and some perspective was lost. Nevertheless I firmly believe most fans this year do not have unrealistic expectations; it is the club who are rather foolishly talking about promotion at the same time as saying we are in such a dire state that we cannot afford a further loan. Such an obvious disjoint only serves to increase cynicism, like Keith claiming we have played well when we clearly haven't, the equivalent of George Osborne telling us the economy is in great shape as another recession looms. Football fans are not as stupid as those in the game think and can take a bit of honesty. Still what most fans will accept I believe are signs of progress and improvement. Instead it is more of the same. Don't underestimate either the sheer boredom factor of seeing the same players for years on end (and many of them making the same mistakes over and over like some football groundhog day). Direct quote from a Millen interview: 'At times last season we showed we can match anyone in this league. If we can show that consistency until Christmas and stay relatively injury free, I don't see why we can't be up around that top 8-10 and in with a shout of the play-offs' - incredibly conditional statement, so not exactly raising any unreasonable expectation. It is inevitable that every club will reach a plateau at various times, and this is one of them for ours. Not everyone can be pushing for the top all the time, and we have a fairly restrictive budget. That said, it's far too early to write off this season or build up any great hope of success (in before anyone says - the above quote is not building up great hope, it's based on many conditions as I've already said). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Direct quote from a Millen interview: 'At times last season we showed we can match anyone in this league. If we can show that consistency until Christmas and stay relatively injury free, I don't see why we can't be up around that top 8-10 and in with a shout of the play-offs' - incredibly conditional statement, so not exactly raising any unreasonable expectation. It is inevitable that every club will reach a plateau at various times, and this is one of them for ours. Not everyone can be pushing for the top all the time, and we have a fairly restrictive budget. That said, it's far too early to write off this season or build up any great hope of success (in before anyone says - the above quote is not building up great hope, it's based on many conditions as I've already said). Sure, he was not gung-ho in that interview and rightly so (though I have not suggested that he has) but nevertheless both he and Colin have talked optimistically about promotion (including at the open day and in reference to wanting to keep Maynard to sustain such an ambition this season). It seems to me that they feel they have to say it because they think that is what the fans expect. My feeling is that the great majority expect no such thing (somewhere between mid table and relegation seems to be the range of expectation, though i hope and believe the latter is wrong) and would not be critical if we do not make the top 6. But my point is that talking of promotion, even conditionally, at the same time as all the other messages coming out of the club are so downbeat (and Keith's demeanour and that of the players on the pitch) is self defeating and will tend to exacerbate any disillusion not calm it. We are clearly in a period of retrenchment that may last at least until we can move on players at the end of their contracts (and I hope some of those still playing who have gone stale) and the legal arguments over the stadium have been won. Why not say so if it is obvious to everybody anyway? Doubtless some would complain of a lack of ambition but I'm convinced the majority would entirely understand, while it might reduce some of the pressure on Keith, who is still very much the rookie and has been left to carry the can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 You can have ambition on limited resources, the expectation is the thing that changes. We still have ambitions of reaching the play-offs, but it will be a greater achievement for us than if West Ham, Leicester and so on do so because the general expectation around the club is less. I've read on here Keith being lambasted about bringing any positives from last season, and it's a kind of rock and hard place situation. You can't be too downbeat because you put out the fire before you've even started, so to speak. Having high ambitions is commendable and to be expected, having high expectations is a different thing, and one I don't think Keith or Colin have at the moment, which is fair enough for this season at least, but that's not to say we can't do well with the right circumstances (as I addressed before). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUEBRIT66 Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Good post and very good responses. Me, I think It starts from the bottom, to me the whole BCFC experience is becoming tiresome. The ticketing is a shambles, the staff in the shop look so unhappy, the stewards are from areas outside of Bristol (welsh guys in the Williams last time I was in there) and have no interest in the club or fans, the food is dire, and couple that with a bunch of players who have no passion for the club and lets be honest the game of football itself its a recipe for failure. I have watched City since I was 7 I have BCFC tattooed on my body and love what BCFC stood for but for me the passion has gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 So in response to some great posts on this thread, what do you think BCFC could do to make the whole football day out a better experience? Are we going to have wait until the new Stadium is built before anything positive happens? If so, I fear many fans will have given it up as a bad lot by then. Put it this way...if your workplace or where you shop regularly, kept dishing up stuff you've become bored and disullusioned with, would you keep going back? Or look elsewhere? Have we become misguided in our loyalty? Or is it our loyalty that the Club take advantage of? Or has that Loyalty wanned for many and now they see it for what it is? A way of making money from us, for them, with very little in return? I was in the pub this afternoon and the usual football lads were in. The Football came on the TV, and the call was 'turn that shit off, and stick the Rugby on...sick of it' That seriously was a first for that pub. Is the tide changing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 No, can't see rugby Union getting more popular, it's been ruined by kicking and the players are just as big ******* as footballers. Rugby league has potential but hasn't expanded much since super league. Not sure what City can do, make the club more financially accessible maybe? Perhaps actually make it easier for fans to get to the ground from none south bristol areas? It's tough, because like this thread has shown, football seems to have lost it's magic to a number of people for a number of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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