Red Ferret Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Aston Villa want safe standing at Villa Park More in link Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityboy Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 This 'safe' standing is all a red herring anyway. It wasn't standing that caused Hillsborough, it was the massive fences penning in supporters like they were cattle that was the cause of all that anguish. Not to mention the moronic actions of the South Yorkshire police force. As somebody earlier in this thread quite rightly points out, should an emergency happen and the stand need to he evacuated in a hurry, seats only serve to get in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm all for safe standing, but I really hope we don't end up with those stupid seats shown above. You'd not be able to sit on them due to the fact 90% of the crowd would be standing, they look horribly uncomfortable and you'll end up with a cramped area to stand in with no increase in capacity because everyone is being sold a 'seat'. I want standing to come back to improve the spectator experience, bring down the cost of tickets and increase crowds. In my opinion, those half-baked seats will do none of those things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecko Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm all for safe standing, but I really hope we don't end up with those stupid seats shown above. You'd not be able to sit on them due to the fact 90% of the crowd would be standing, they look horribly uncomfortable and you'll end up with a cramped area to stand in with no increase in capacity because everyone is being sold a 'seat'. I want standing to come back to improve the spectator experience, bring down the cost of tickets and increase crowds. In my opinion, those half-baked seats will do none of those things Stand in the safe standing areas and sit in the seating areas. Makes sense really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ferret Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Note in the newspaper image above that the area Villa want as safe standing would be tiny! Would be a good experiment though to get the ball rolling and prove to doubters that it can be done safely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbacktherobin Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm all for safe standing, but I really hope we don't end up with those stupid seats shown above. You'd not be able to sit on them due to the fact 90% of the crowd would be standing, they look horribly uncomfortable and you'll end up with a cramped area to stand in with no increase in capacity because everyone is being sold a 'seat'. I want standing to come back to improve the spectator experience, bring down the cost of tickets and increase crowds. In my opinion, those half-baked seats will do none of those things Why would you go into a standing area of a ground to sit down?!? Not all the ground would be like that, look at the german models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbacktherobin Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Note in the newspaper image above that the area Villa want as safe standing would be tiny! Would be a good experiment though to get the ball rolling and prove to doubters that it can be done safely Hopefully it can happen, and then prove to be a success. You have to worry about the people wanting to go to that part of the stand and sit down though......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC&T Board Members Blagdon red Posted January 17, 2012 SC&T Board Members Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 As others have said: - the area indicated would be a small trial area - only people who want to stand would buy a ticket for that area - because it's a corner with no seats behind it, standing fans would not obstruct anybody else's view - everybody who wants to sit would buy a ticket for any other part of the ground, where they would still have a 'normal' seat - if Villa played in Europe during any trial, the metal seats in the standing area would be lowered to comply with UEFA all-seater regs - UEFA regs do not say, however, that fans must sit, so the fans in the area (being standing season ticket holders) would probably stand for those games as well It's great to see a Premier League club go public in saying that they think safe standing using rail seats should be trialled. Other clubs also take this view, but have not gone public yet. It is noteworthy too that one of the reasons for wanting to do this that Villa gave to their fans on Saturday was that they consider providing rail seats for their standing fans as an improvement in safety terms on the current situation of fans standing behind low-backed seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbacktherobin Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 As others have said: - the area indicated would be a small trial area - only people who want to stand would buy a ticket for that area - because it's a corner with no seats behind it, standing fans would not obstruct anybody else's view - everybody who wants to sit would buy a ticket for any other part of the ground, where they would still have a 'normal' seat - if Villa played in Europe during any trial, the metal seats in the standing area would be lowered to comply with UEFA all-seater regs - UEFA regs do not say, however, that fans must sit, so the fans in the area (being standing season ticket holders) would probably stand for those games as well It's great to see a Premier League club go public in saying that they think safe standing using rail seats should be trialled. Other clubs also take this view, but have not gone public yet. It is noteworthy too that one of the reasons for wanting to do this that Villa gave to their fans on Saturday was that they consider providing rail seats for their standing fans as an improvement in safety terms on the current situation of fans standing behind low-backed seats. How many clubs, roughly also have the view? Without naming names etc. I really hope this is a success, it should put everything to bed about it being "unsafe". Just need the FA/Premier League/ Government to be sensible about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Say you want to sit to watch the game, but the person in front of you doesn't, can you still see the action or are you then forced to stand too? I'm thinking that ticket pricing for these areas might be cheap, hence people who normally sit might try and exploit that which would then lead to problems etc with people moaning about views and thus the atmosphere not getting going etc etc. But also I don't get this argument about why would you want to sit in a standing area... if that's the case why are the seats in there anyway? So you can nibble on a half time pasty on the comfort of a sheet of tin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ferret Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 But also I don't get this argument about why would you want to sit in a standing area... if that's the case why are the seats in there anyway? So you can nibble on a half time pasty on the comfort of a sheet of tin? The seats are there for European cup games (its a UEFA regulation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbacktherobin Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Say you want to sit to watch the game, but the person in front of you doesn't, can you still see the action or are you then forced to stand too? I'm thinking that ticket pricing for these areas might be cheap, hence people who normally sit might try and exploit that which would then lead to problems etc with people moaning about views and thus the atmosphere not getting going etc etc. But also I don't get this argument about why would you want to sit in a standing area... if that's the case why are the seats in there anyway? So you can nibble on a half time pasty on the comfort of a sheet of tin? 1. The whole stadium would not be "safe standing", so if you want to sit down you can, by simply buying a ticket in a different part of the ground. Go back 30 years, would you go into the east end, or park end and moan people were stood up? Or would you had simply got a ticket for the willam or dolman stand? 2. I think the seats are there to comply with ufea rules about stadiums needing to be all seater for europe games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Why would you go into a standing area of a ground to sit down?!? Not all the ground would be like that, look at the german models. Exactly, so why put rail seats in? Your not changing anything by doing that, your just subjugating an existing law However, having see Blagdon red's post, I have to admit I was only thinking about from an English Championship clubs viewpoint and I suppose for any team with ambition of playing in Europe it would be a decent solution I still think they're a compromise that doesn't really make anyone entirely happy. Plus, clubs still are selling 'seats' and it's unlikely to help bring down the cost of tickets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Exactly, so why put rail seats in? Your not changing anything by doing that, your just subjugating an existing law However, having see Blagdon red's post, I have to admit I was only thinking about from an English Championship clubs viewpoint and I suppose for any team with ambition of playing in Europe it would be a decent solution I still think they're a compromise that doesn't really make anyone entirely happy. Plus, clubs still are selling 'seats' and it's unlikely to help bring down the cost of tickets I'm fairly certain the rail seats are locked in the up position unless in use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbacktherobin Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I still think they're a compromise that doesn't really make anyone entirely happy. Plus, clubs still are selling 'seats' and it's unlikely to help bring down the cost of tickets I imagine the seats would be "smaller", so could fit more in per a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm fairly certain the rail seats are locked in the up position unless in use... I'll say it again then, for a midtable championship team, what is the point of rail seats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm fairly certain the rail seats are locked in the up position unless in use... Correct. A special key is needed to unlock them, presumably this could be done by stewards before a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbacktherobin Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'll say it again then, for a midtable championship team, what is the point of rail seats? None, i imagine. Having the rails though, means it is even "safer". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ferret Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'll say it again then, for a midtable championship team, what is the point of rail seats? In case the mid-table Championship team gets into Europe Like Birmingham City for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'll say it again then, for a midtable championship team, what is the point of rail seats? I don't really understand your point? They're needed to meet some competitions safety regulations and the new stadium is about achieving long term goals like Prem football and perhaps Europa League.. I'm not sure what the policy is with reserved standing, if you will, but I'm sure the police and CCTV operatives would also be much happier if people had their own place to stand... I doon't know though. They're never going to let us over crowd the place are they... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC&T Board Members Blagdon red Posted January 17, 2012 SC&T Board Members Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 The point of promoting rail seats is that it will be easier for the politicians who are dead set against standing at football to come around to the view that standing at a seat with a rail is actually safer than the current situation than it would be to try to persuade them (as people have done without success for 20 years) that standing on a relatively open terrace in a tier 1 or tier stadium is safe. Personally, of course, I don't accept that well-built, well-managed terraces are in any way unsafe. However, in order to achieve our objective, i.e. that those fans who wish to watch a game standing up should be allowed to do so in an area designed for the purpose, proposing the use of 'new technology' in the form of rail seats is clearly going to encounter less resistance than proposing a 'return to terracing', which, even if allowed, would in any case be a non-starter for any club with aspirations of playing in Europe within the lifetime of the stadium/stand concerned (as UEFA do not allow terraces). From personal meetings, I can say that over a quarter of Championship clubs are either very supportive or at the very least of the view that the rail seat concept should be explored further. The percentage is around the same in the Premier League. In both leagues I have yet to meet the majority of clubs. No club I have met with the Safe Standing Roadshow has ruled out the rail seat concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I don't really understand your point? They're needed to meet some competitions safety regulations and the new stadium is about achieving long term goals like Prem football and perhaps Europa League.. I'm not sure what the policy is with reserved standing, if you will, but I'm sure the police and CCTV operatives would also be much happier if people had their own place to stand... I doon't know though. They're never going to let us over crowd the place are they... It just seems to me that literally the only upside is that you'll be able to stand up. Now as I understand it, the regulations state that we can't stand up now and that by standing in a seating area we are in breach of health and safety laws. Therefore, in all circumstances a change in the law/rules would be required. Taking the issue of European competition qualification aside, if the rules were changed to allow standing why couldn't we just have a terraced area to allow standing as those rail seat areas look neither comfortable places in which to stand nor comfortable places to sit, so what has actually been gained? Perhaps I'm 'not getting it'... I'm not trying to belittle the efforts of those who've been working hard to bring back 'safe standing' at football grounds and it's something I'd love to see. I just think that these rail seats would be a poor approximation of a terrace that satisfies no one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frome Valley Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 From personal meetings, I can say that over a quarter of Championship clubs are either very supportive or at the very least of the view that the rail seat concept should be explored further. The percentage is around the same in the Premier League. In both leagues I have yet to meet the majority of clubs. No club I have met with the Safe Standing Roadshow has ruled out the rail seat concept. Does this now include Steve Lansdown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ferret Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 From personal meetings, I can say that over a quarter of Championship clubs are either very supportive or at the very least of the view that the rail seat concept should be explored further. The percentage is around the same in the Premier League. In both leagues I have yet to meet the majority of clubs. No club I have met with the Safe Standing Roadshow has ruled out the rail seat concept. Do you know what SL / BCFC's stance is on safe standing? Either officially or off the record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bywaterred Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Would be good too see standing areas like these ones from Germany! Looks a lot like the east end already haha. Would be brilliant to have this with the new ground. We stand up all the way through in the east end anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 It just seems to me that literally the only upside is that you'll be able to stand up. Now as I understand it, the regulations state that we can't stand up now and that by standing in a seating area we are in breach of health and safety laws. Therefore, in all circumstances a change in the law/rules would be required. Taking the issue of European competition qualification aside, if the rules were changed to allow standing why couldn't we just have a terraced area to allow standing as those rail seat areas look neither comfortable places in which to stand nor comfortable places to sit, so what has actually been gained? Perhaps I'm 'not getting it'... I'm not trying to belittle the efforts of those who've been working hard to bring back 'safe standing' at football grounds and it's something I'd love to see. I just think that these rail seats would be a poor approximation of a terrace that satisfies no one I think you need to forget about the seat, It's folded up and never ever used. The thing is, we'll never get old school terracing back (Like the picture just above this reply) for some quite obvious reasons... But to have a rail for every fan means you can't have a crush or the old style human sea moving about the terrace... I spend my entire time at ashton gate being told to sit down by stewards despite sitting on the back row. I block nobody's view and am forced to sit despite finding it much easier to watch the game stood up... That's why I support it anyway. What is a comfortable place to stand by the way? I mean, you've got a rail to lean on enough room to stand on some flat ground? it sounds about perfect standing conditions to me!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm assuming this from Napoli-Man City is safe standing- given it was in UEFA Competition, dunno how they wangled this!? Suffice to say, our FA and Govt would not permit but guess what- pretty sure it's in safe standing areas- never affects their fantastic atmosphere though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbacktherobin Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'm assuming this from Napoli-Man City is safe standing- given it was in UEFA Competition, dunno how they wangled this!? Suffice to say, our FA and Govt would not permit but guess what- pretty sure it's in safe standing areas- never affects their fantastic atmosphere though... Wangled what? Ufea say it needs to be all seated, but you do not have to sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Knowle Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 It would be great to see city at the front pushing this like villa now. Fans EE in the main generally stand because obvioulsy they want to but when city move??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 If I did not feel safe standing up then I would sit down, but I am quite happy standing up at the moment. I really hope we get safe standing at our new ground. I am all for safe standing, bring it on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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