Barrs Court Red Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 How could it be fair trail if key witnesses were unavailable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 What is a real joke is the decision to adjourn the case until July on the grounds of 'players' commitments'. Exactly; Terry and Chelsea could have forced the issue into court quicker, but they said it would be 'inconvenient' during the playing season. Chris Huhne will be in court in 2 weeks on his charges, so the only reason this can be taking so long is because someone has pissed and moaned PS key witnesses would not have been 'unavailable' it just would have been 'inconvenient'. They tried to play the system and it backfired. What's the betting Terry's lawyers try and get it heard sooner now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I would think that if he is convicted in a court of law, i.e. Beyond reasonable doubt, Chelsea would probably have to sack him. Someone else will pick him up but it's a difficult situation. I'm not sure Adam should be commenting on this at all, at least not through a channel use to announce official club news. Agree though, it puts the banning of certain forum members from Ashton Gate into some context, doesn't it? When you think. Extrapolating further, would Man Utd have any grounds to ban Luis Suarez from Old Trafford?! Unfortunately in football, his value to Chelsea will far exceed any moral obligations! Be interesting to know: a) what black Chelsea fans would think about him captaining their side should he be found guilty, mass protest? b) what black Chelsea footballers would think of playing along side him? It is a witch hunt, pure and simple. I could be wrong because I didnt follow the story that closely but from what i remember, Anton Ferdinand didnt even instigate the complaints! infact, he said nothing for some time. So someone else took offense on Anton's behalf, and a few people had a word in his ear who convinced him that what happened was wrong. Ive played in a match where someone has made a rascist comment, you dont just ignore it, wait a few days and then make a statement once several other people have brought it to the public attention. If Anton felt Terry's comments were that bad that all this carry on was required, Im pretty sure he would have made his feelings known on the pitch at the time. I could be wrong, and there might have been a mass brawl? I dont remember that far back to be honest. Interestingly in the video, Mikel (i think?) is stood next to Terry and doesnt batter an eyelid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Unfortunately in football, his value to Chelsea will far exceed any moral obligations! Be interesting to know: a) what black Chelsea fans would think about him captaining their side should he be found guilty, mass protest? b) what black Chelsea footballers would think of playing along side him? It is a witch hunt, pure and simple. I could be wrong because I didnt follow the story that closely but from what i remember, Anton Ferdinand didnt even instigate the complaints! infact, he said nothing for some time. So someone else took offense on Anton's behalf, and a few people had a word in his ear who convinced him that what happened was wrong. Ive played in a match where someone has made a rascist comment, you dont just ignore it, wait a few days and then make a statement once several other people have brought it to the public attention. If Anton felt Terry's comments were that bad that all this carry on was required, Im pretty sure he would have made his feelings known on the pitch at the time. I could be wrong, and there might have been a mass brawl? I dont remember that far back to be honest. Interestingly in the video, Mikel (i think?) is stood next to Terry and doesnt batter an eyelid. This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 As for John Terry and what he did with Wayne Bridge's ex. Like Riaz said, the only people who should be concerned and have any interest in this are Terry, Bridge and the women involved. It doesnt make it acceptable but affairs happen all the time. We dont know what happens behind closed doors, whos to say Terry and Bridge were mates? People seem to assume that everyone in football have some massive pally relationship with each other. Whose to say Bridge didnt do anything to Terry etc etc, noone knows the facts, yet the media will report on anything they think will sell a paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laner Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 It should also noted that the greatest england captain to date, was accused of stealing during his time as captain.... In Colombia... hardly the most law abiding and uncorrupted nation in the world?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodle Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 The amount of posts on here with clear agendas towards the PL team they 'support' totally over shadows the whole issue - its the same all over the net! From a neutral view, If you read the FACTS and not the papers about it all, Terry has been royally shafted on farcical terms, But the fact is this isn't the first time - hes always involved in some sort of gaffe or media witch hunt and the FA have clearly caved in to the media and what not. Its not like England are going to get that far in the euros with crapello, And by dropping Terry who weather you like it or not is probably the best defender we have by miles - its not exactly going to help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 The amount of posts on here with clear agendas towards the PL team they 'support' totally over shadows the whole issue - its the same all over the net! From a neutral view, If you read the FACTS and not the papers about it all, Terry has been royally shafted on farcical terms, But the fact is this isn't the first time - hes always involved in some sort of gaffe or media witch hunt and the FA have clearly caved in to the media and what not. Its not like England are going to get that far in the euros with crapello, And by dropping Terry who weather you like it or not is probably the best defender we hav(e by miles - its not exactly going to help! From my point of view, the most telling issue re John Terry was when it was revealed that he was exploiting his being England Captain for financial gain a while back and some his actions at that time were questionable. That being the case, if the captaincy is so valuable, i.e. therplayer himself seeing the role as carrying a status and worth beyond being merely an England player, then surely it demands that the captain maintains a higher standard in the way he conducts himself while captain of the national team. If so, then I am amazed that he remained Engalnd Captain for so long, and was reinstated so soon after the Wayne Bridge incident given the various "scrapes" he has got into . With this background, I completely agree with his being stood down as captain while the charge hangs over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 From my point of view, the most telling issue re John Terry was when it was revealed that he was exploiting his being England Captain for financial gain a while back and some his actions at that time were questionable. That being the case, if the captaincy is so valuable, i.e. therplayer himself seeing the role as carrying a status and worth beyond being merely an England player, then surely it demands that the captain maintains a higher standard in the way he conducts himself while captain of the national team. If so, then I am amazed that he remained Engalnd Captain for so long, and was reinstated so soon after the Wayne Bridge incident given the various "scrapes" he has got into . With this background, I completely agree with his being stood down as captain while the charge hangs over him. Did this happen? or was it a another tabloid story? Just wondering if its hearsay or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Its not like England are going to get that far in the euros with crapello, And by dropping Terry who weather you like it or not is probably the best defender we have by miles - its not exactly going to help! Utter bollocks, sad to say, but the best England defensive player is Ashley Cole, by a mile Terry isn't even close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 It should also noted that the greatest england captain to date, was accused of stealing during his time as captain.... So what? If (per your arguments) Terry's previous infidelities have no bearing on the current case, then WTF has this got to do with anything? And who says he was the greatest ever England captain? Sure, he won the world cup but I know nothing about England captain's pre-60s, for all I know, we had some absolute genius in the 20s. Good player, and got to pick up a trophy, doesn't automatically make him the greatest ever. The whole 'theft' thing was probably bollocks, mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 So what? If (per your arguments) Terry's previous infidelities have no bearing on the current case, then WTF has this got to do with anything? And who says he was the greatest ever England captain? Sure, he won the world cup but I know nothing about England captain's pre-60s, for all I know, we had some absolute genius in the 20s. Good player, and got to pick up a trophy, doesn't automatically make him the greatest ever. The whole 'theft' thing was probably bollocks, mind Point is, this could be too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Unfortunately in football, his value to Chelsea will far exceed any moral obligations! Be interesting to know: a) what black Chelsea fans would think about him captaining their side should he be found guilty, mass protest? b) what black Chelsea footballers would think of playing along side him? It is a witch hunt, pure and simple. I could be wrong because I didnt follow the story that closely but from what i remember, Anton Ferdinand didnt even instigate the complaints! infact, he said nothing for some time. So someone else took offense on Anton's behalf, and a few people had a word in his ear who convinced him that what happened was wrong. Ive played in a match where someone has made a rascist comment, you dont just ignore it, wait a few days and then make a statement once several other people have brought it to the public attention. If Anton felt Terry's comments were that bad that all this carry on was required, Im pretty sure he would have made his feelings known on the pitch at the time. I could be wrong, and there might have been a mass brawl? I dont remember that far back to be honest. Interestingly in the video, Mikel (i think?) is stood next to Terry and doesnt batter an eyelid. I believe what happened was AF asked John Terry if he had called him a black bastard (or wa it ****? Can't remember) and Terry said he had not. AF then had evidence presented to him that indicates he had said it, henc the charges. I don't know whether Terry said it, neither do you. Yes there is a presumption of innocence in English law but this isn't a court it's the national football team and being fair to John Terry doesn't come into it. The fact is that innocent or not, the circus that will follow him round for the next 6 months will make it very hard for him to be captain and hard for his team mates. Boo hoo if he feels hard done by As for Terry being out best defender, don't make me laugh. Terry is excellent defending balls into the box and playing against a 6ft target man. He's useless against movement and pace. Up against te likes of Xavi, Muller, Ozil, Benzema, Sneijder, Ronaldo this summer he'll get shown up. The best centre half England have had in recent times is Ledley King but he's made of glass. We need to get away from this idea of a need for experience in the England team all the time. Play young players in form like Walker, Jones (form-ish), Sturridge and Oxlade-Chamberlain (who's genuinely awesome IMO: and I hate Arsenal!) and build toward the 2014 world cup. Why worry about preserving John Terry when he's just holding back the future anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 As for Terry being out best defender, don't make me laugh. Terry is excellent defending balls into the box and playing against a 6ft target man. He's useless against movement and pace. Up against te likes of Xavi, Muller, Ozil, Benzema, Sneijder, Ronaldo this summer he'll get shown up. The best centre half England have had in recent times is Ledley King but he's made of glass. We need to get away from this idea of a need for experience in the England team all the time. Play young players in form like Walker, Jones (form-ish), Sturridge and Oxlade-Chamberlain (who's genuinely awesome IMO: and I hate Arsenal!) and build toward the 2014 world cup. Why worry about preserving John Terry when he's just holding back the future anyway? +1 (mind you, I'd have Richards rather than Walker at RB) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herman Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 all this debate about him being the captain is totally irrelevant since neither him or rio should be anywhere near the starting eleven. whether you take one of them as an experienced emergency back up centre back or not is another debate, but obviously the captain should be someone who starts matches. sadly we all know capello probably wont select anyone for the euros under the age of 30 and will recall paul merson, gary lineker and bobby charlton on the eve of the tournament, then award the captaincy to gary glitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Be interesting to know: a) what black Chelsea fans would think about him captaining their side should he be found guilty, mass protest? b) what black Chelsea footballers would think of playing along side him? I don't think it matters what colour you are to feel disgust towards him IF THERE IS ANY TRUTH in the allegation. Personally I am fed up already hearing about him and believe the whole thing is being hyped up by the media as usual. I don't like him as a player and as a man I like him even less, BUT if he really was such a racist how come it has not surfaced before??? In my experience racists don't hide the fact they are, they are proud of being such creatures. Terry cannot have played with black players both at club and country level without being noticed, he played with Rio for years hasn't he and he went and abused his brother??? Something isn't right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I don't think it matters what colour you are to feel disgust towards him IF THERE IS ANY TRUTH in the allegation. Personally I am fed up already hearing about him and believe the whole thing is being hyped up by the media as usual. I don't like him as a player and as a man I like him even less, BUT if he really was such a racist how come it has not surfaced before??? In my experience racists don't hide the fact they are, they are proud of being such creatures. Terry cannot have played with black players both at club and country level without being noticed, he played with Rio for years hasn't he and he went and abused his brother??? Something isn't right. He doesn't have to be a dyed-in-the-wool, card carrying racist to make a racist comment. People say things they don't mean or regret all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 He doesn't have to be a dyed-in-the-wool, card carrying racist to make a racist comment. People say things they don't mean or regret all the time I totally understand that, but he also must have been involved in the respect/stamp out campaigns etc very visible in football, perhaps more visable than in some offices etc. He's probably worn the t shirt and been round schools promoting such schemes. He should have been aware and with the fact sky etc have cameras everywhere. Like I said it's odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I totally understand that, but he also must have been involved in the respect/stamp out campaigns etc very visible in football, perhaps more visable than in some offices etc. He's probably worn the t shirt and been round schools promoting such schemes. He should have been aware and with the fact sky etc have cameras everywhere. Like I said it's odd. I agree that it's odd; I think Terry to be many things, but I wouldn't have him pegged as a racist. You're probably making te mistake of presuming a footballer to be a sensible, rational and intelligent human being!!! I just thing that with all the people in that stadium and all the cameras, CPS would not be taking this if he hadn't said what he is alleged to have said. He'll have damn good lawyers though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I agree that it's odd; I think Terry to be many things, but I wouldn't have him pegged as a racist. You're probably making te mistake of presuming a footballer to be a sensible, rational and intelligent human being!!! I just thing that with all the people in that stadium and all the cameras, CPS would not be taking this if he hadn't said what he is alleged to have said. He'll have damn good lawyers though... He will have the best lawyers money can buy, but with it being such a high profile case the CPS will be bringing out there best as well will be very interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I believe what happened was AF asked John Terry if he had called him a black bastard (or wa it ****? Can't remember) and Terry said he had not. AF then had evidence presented to him that indicates he had said it, henc the charges. I don't know whether Terry said it, neither do you. Yes there is a presumption of innocence in English law but this isn't a court it's the national football team and being fair to John Terry doesn't come into it. The fact is that innocent or not, the circus that will follow him round for the next 6 months will make it very hard for him to be captain and hard for his team mates. Boo hoo if he feels hard done by As for Terry being out best defender, don't make me laugh. Terry is excellent defending balls into the box and playing against a 6ft target man. He's useless against movement and pace. Up against te likes of Xavi, Muller, Ozil, Benzema, Sneijder, Ronaldo this summer he'll get shown up. The best centre half England have had in recent times is Ledley King but he's made of glass. We need to get away from this idea of a need for experience in the England team all the time. Play young players in form like Walker, Jones (form-ish), Sturridge and Oxlade-Chamberlain (who's genuinely awesome IMO: and I hate Arsenal!) and build toward the 2014 world cup. Why worry about preserving John Terry when he's just holding back the future anyway? So if Terry had just called him a bastard that would have been OK? I am probably being simplistic over this, but Ferdinand is black so including the word black in the insult is stating a fact If Ferdinand was born within wedlock, then Terry's accusation that he is a bastard would amount to defamation (I think) becuase that accusation would be untrue. Playing Devil's Advocate, what would the reaction have been if Ferdinand had accused Terry of being a white bastard? Would Ferdinand have been charged with a racial insult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman_Stand Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 There isn't one model professional in the England team which is capable of captaining England! So, strip Terry of captaincy, and give it who? Rio, failed to turn up to 2 drug tests... Stevie G, assulted a DJ in a night club... Rooney, a hookers best customer. Sounds like a great night out though.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 So if Terry had just called him a bastard that would have been OK? I am probably being simplistic over this, but Ferdinand is black so including the word black in the insult is stating a fact If Ferdinand was born within wedlock, then Terry's accusation that he is a bastard would amount to defamation (I think) becuase that accusation would be untrue. Playing Devil's Advocate, what would the reaction have been if Ferdinand had accused Terry of being a white bastard? Would Ferdinand have been charged with a racial insult? I'm pretty sure all this was discussed until threads were locked when it actually happened. Like it or not, there is a certain inference in a white man referring to someone of another ethnicity by their 'colour'. I presume Anton Ferdinand found it offensive, as is his right. If a black man came up to you in the street and called you a 'white bastard' (sorry, I'm working under the assumption that you're white), I'm pretty sure you'd have every right to report that to the police. There's not the same history behind the use of the word, but I would say referring to someone by the colour of their skin is pretty much the simplest definition of racism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pewsham Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 If Terry is no longer Captain he shouldnt travel to the 2012 championships at all, as presence may have a negative effect on the squad altogether. IMHO John Terry shouldn't travel because he is no longer good enough, but how does he square with Shaun Wright Phillips (who may make the squad and recently refused to shake his hand), or any other QPR player that makes the England squad? What about his relationship with Rio Ferdinand (who may make the squad)? The Euro 2012 squad would be fractured in their opinions of John Terry - and thats not the best way of starting a tournament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 In Colombia... hardly the most law abiding and uncorrupted nation in the world?! Unfortunately, England is getting the same !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 My old man is disabled. Those spaces are there for people who are incapable of walking further distances, not jumped up footballers who think they can do as they please. See, this is one of my pet hates. Yes I agree that disabled people should have parking spots nearer the door to a shop and slightly wider so that they can get in and out ok. But, when it's pouring down with rain and you're all dressed up and you pull in to a local supermarket and all the ordinary spaces are taken, why shouldn't you use a disabled space? If you didn't use the disabled space, you'd have to pull over on the road and wait for an ordinary space to become available, whereas if a disabled one is available, why shouldn't you use it? If it means that a disabled person has to pull in and wait on the side of the road, then so be it. After all, how many times do you hear that they don't want to be treated any differently? Providing there isn't a normal space available, I see nothing wrong with using a disabled space and letting others wait their turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm pretty sure all this was discussed until threads were locked when it actually happened. Like it or not, there is a certain inference in a white man referring to someone of another ethnicity by their 'colour'. I presume Anton Ferdinand found it offensive, as is his right. If a black man came up to you in the street and called you a 'white bastard' (sorry, I'm working under the assumption that you're white), I'm pretty sure you'd have every right to report that to the police. There's not the same history behind the use of the word, but I would say referring to someone by the colour of their skin is pretty much the simplest definition of racism One thing that amused me on Facebook the other day was a post by a mixed race friend. "I'm goin to tel dis big fat negro who works in asda security to watch sumin else otherwise I'm goin to... Fed up evertime I go in looks at me like theif! Shit negro I'm pretty sure I earn more than you do" Not a single person claimed rascist, there were even black people posting on the status and it was all taken as funny... If a white man posted that same status there would be uproar... Someone please tell me why there's a difference? I'd even go as far as saying, it wouldn't be a black person that would be the first to call you rascist, it would be a white person taking offence on their behalf. Anton never complain about terry, someone else did it for him. Infact anton didn't say anything. If he was offended e should have reported the incident immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Aldhelms Red Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Im with Riaz on this, innocent until proven guilty. What i find quite astonishing, is, if you watch the video footage, Terry is surrounded by his own black players and not one of then reacts. Surely if he had said something, one of them would have reacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSR Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 So am I the only one seeing terry shout" **** off ou black ****" on tv then? It was there for all to see. Guilty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSR Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 One thing that amused me on Facebook the other day was a post by a mixed race friend. "I'm goin to tel dis big fat negro who works in asda security to watch sumin else otherwise I'm goin to... Fed up evertime I go in looks at me like theif! Shit negro I'm pretty sure I earn more than you do" Not a single person claimed rascist, there were even black people posting on the status and it was all taken as funny... If a white man posted that same status there would be uproar... Someone please tell me why there's a difference? I'd even go as far as saying, it wouldn't be a black person that would be the first to call you rascist, it would be a white person taking offence on their behalf. Anton never complain about terry, someone else did it for him. Infact anton didn't say anything. If he was offended e should have reported the incident immediately. There is no difference mate, just some think its ok to destroy years of hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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