Garland-sweden Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Will never forgott Nobles goal against Palace. What a moment. Like Spudski says we have we have to have players who can make it by the brain. Born footballer so to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchay Red Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Great post- 100%! Often wondered about how we do in the heat- climate differs so much, which as you say is conducive to a quicker style of football. Inevitably we go out to a tournament, try to play quick in the heat and maybe get a bit knackered or try to play technically- and fail. Noble produced some memorable moments and was a more gifted midfiled player than we have at the moment. But regarding the comment about football styles and climate/heat. What about the Hermans they seem to do pretty well internationally playing a similar style to ours, and a lot of their winter weather is worse than ours so I guess they run around quite a lot to keep warm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Noble produced some memorable moments and was a more gifted midfiled player than we have at the moment. But regarding the comment about football styles and climate/heat. What about the Hermans they seem to do pretty well internationally playing a similar style to ours, and a lot of their winter weather is worse than ours so I guess they run around quite a lot to keep warm! Their summers are also a lot longer, warmer and more humid than ours. Maybe it's just that England are not very good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Not sure about that. From memory wasn't Noble and Johnson a reasonably regular centre midfield pairing in the Championship play off season? No. Johnson & Noble were tried together at the start of the promotion season in league one and the team performed poorly, so Alex Russell was reinstated. In the championship play-off season the midfield partnership was normally Johnson and Elliot with Noble, when he played, either in front in a 4-4-1-1 or on the right wing. Noble did play regularly in central midfield when he first signed, alongside Russell, but once Johnson arrived he was pushed out. On the subject of the weather, in his book on the differences between English and Italian football, Gianluca Vialli suggests that the major difference in the UK is the wind, which makes it feel much colder than it is, forcing English training sessions to be much more active than those in southern Europe, which leads to a focus on running rather than ball work etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 the main problem with our international team not producing and others do is the fact we don't have a winter break and every other league in europe do, hence our players are always jaded when it comes to the world cup and euro's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 the main problem with our international team not producing and others do is the fact we don't have a winter break and every other league in europe do, hence our players are always jaded when it comes to the world cup and euro's Errr, Spain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Errr, Spain? I'm pretty sure that La Liga has a 3 week break over Christmas, while in England teams play on average every 3-4 days over the same period maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kaiser Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Noble, Gavin Williams and Lee Trundle were all players that are/were gifted, but for whatever reasons, find it hard to fit in. . Because we had a manager at the time who - 1) Couldn't handle named/gifted players 2) Needed to play his son 3) Would prefer workhorses who ran up and down the pitch but couldn't show a bit of skill if their life depended on it. At least Trundle and Noble of those three were intelligent, gifted players who we totally wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Because we had a manager at the time who - 1) Couldn't handle named/gifted players 2) Needed to play his son 3) Would prefer workhorses who ran up and down the pitch but couldn't show a bit of skill if their life depended on it. At least Trundle and Noble of those three were intelligent, gifted players who we totally wasted. yet that manager got us 1) promoted 2) Play off final 3) never finished outside the top 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kaiser Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 yet that manager got us 1) promoted 2) Play off final 3) never finished outside the top 10 And then was fired by Peterborough, Northampton Town and is now at the heady heights of Yeovil. As for your 3rd point, that was only because we fired him. He would have taken us down had we not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 And then was fired by Peterborough, Northampton Town and is now at the heady heights of Yeovil. And that impacts upon his career while at City how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 And then was fired by Peterborough, Northampton Town and is now at the heady heights of Yeovil. As for your 3rd point, that was only because we fired him. He would have taken us down had we not. prove he would of taken us down, whats his career after us got to do with the price of fish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 prove he would of taken us down, whats his career after us got to do with the price of fish? Errrrr, did he leave both teams in a bad plaice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Errrrr, did he leave both teams in a bad plaice? Whats it got to do with his career here, and Peterborugh he left in 7th place 2 points off the play-offs with 2 games in hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Whats it got to do with his career here, and Peterborugh he left in 7th place 2 points off the play-offs with 2 games in hand Woooooooooooosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfieldred Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yes...it's a shame, that this Country has got stuck in the dark ages, by believing pace and strength are the only way to win football matches. That's why i prefer watching more technical, slower paced games from abroad. I also believe England will never win a World Cup again until coaches at lower levels bring on kids that are technically gifted, instead of the ones that develop physically quickest. When was the last time you were at a BCFC game amazed at the individual skills of a player? Noble, Williams and Trundle were the last City players i remember showing regular glimpses of genius. Adomah will eventually, when he understands the game better and works under a great manager. I also believe he knows that, with his honest appraisal of his chats with other players. 1) If we are in the 'Dark Ages' - then why do most players want to play in the Prem and why do most football fans watch the prem? I'll tell you- its more exciting , there are more goals and the standard of game is more entertaining. That is proven by the amount of people watching the games. Supply and demand. 2) This England must pplay like - Spain (late 2008 -2012) Holland (88-96 When we beat them 4-1 and everyone suddenly shut up about going Dutch) Why does no one ever say we should play like Germany - who are the most successful Euro team ever??? Purists fail to understand that things go in cycles. Spain never gave up their way for all the decades they failed to win or even reach a final. The Dutch have never won the world cup. Should they change their system? 3) I dont want to be amazed at individual skill, I want City winning games. I've seen some nice passing from Kilkenny this season sporadically, but usually its come to nothing. Adomah has been worked out by most of the defences in this division. The trouble with relying on individuals is just that. Until Ferguson taught Ronaldo how to pass he was a very talented but ineffectual player. Adomah needs to learn when to lay off better as Ronaldo did. You want U-tube players - get Maynard back. He scored great individual goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 1) If we are in the 'Dark Ages' - then why do most players want to play in the Prem and why do most football fans watch the prem? I'll tell you- its more exciting , there are more goals and the standard of game is more entertaining. That is proven by the amount of people watching the games. Supply and demand. 2) This England must pplay like - Spain (late 2008 -2012) Holland (88-96 When we beat them 4-1 and everyone suddenly shut up about going Dutch) Why does no one ever say we should play like Germany - who are the most successful Euro team ever??? Purists fail to understand that things go in cycles. Spain never gave up their way for all the decades they failed to win or even reach a final. The Dutch have never won the world cup. Should they change their system? 3) I dont want to be amazed at individual skill, I want City winning games. I've seen some nice passing from Kilkenny this season sporadically, but usually its come to nothing. Adomah has been worked out by most of the defences in this division. The trouble with relying on individuals is just that. Until Ferguson taught Ronaldo how to pass he was a very talented but ineffectual player. Adomah needs to learn when to lay off better as Ronaldo did. You want U-tube players - get Maynard back. He scored great individual goals. I think you fail to understand the sentiment of the post. Firstly in the Prem...how many teams are made up of foreigners? These Foreigners have learnt their trade abroad and are more tecnically gifted. They come to the Prem because it pays more. If our English players were given better coaching at an early age, then combined with power and speed, we would be world beaters. Our coaching standards are very poor compared to other countries. Something commented on by many foreign coaches. How many players for example, have we had as a club, who are incapable of making a pass to their own player regularly? Elliot is a great example of a typical English Championship player. All huff and puff...great engine and commitment...but i've seen 10 year olds with better passing skills and ball control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfieldred Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 I think you fail to understand the sentiment of the post. Firstly in the Prem...how many teams are made up of foreigners? These Foreigners have learnt their trade abroad and are more tecnically gifted. They come to the Prem because it pays more. If our English players were given better coaching at an early age, then combined with power and speed, we would be world beaters. Our coaching standards are very poor compared to other countries. Something commented on by many foreign coaches. How many players for example, have we had as a club, who are incapable of making a pass to their own player regularly? Elliot is a great example of a typical English Championship player. All huff and puff...great engine and commitment...but i've seen 10 year olds with better passing skills and ball control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfieldred Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Sorry meant to say, we do not have a bias against creative midfielders - its just they are few and far between - not because of child coaching, but because there is a certain level of talent needed. George Best and Gazza both said the reason that defenders couldnt guess what they were going to do next was because they didnt know themselves. Both them and Maradonna - 3 of the best creative players ever had severe addiction issues - which points towards an innate obsessiveness that would mean they honed their skills without coaching or training. So maybe no coaching is the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 I think you fail to understand the sentiment of the post. Firstly in the Prem...how many teams are made up of foreigners? These Foreigners have learnt their trade abroad and are more tecnically gifted. They come to the Prem because it pays more. If our English players were given better coaching at an early age, then combined with power and speed, we would be world beaters. Our coaching standards are very poor compared to other countries. Something commented on by many foreign coaches. How many players for example, have we had as a club, who are incapable of making a pass to their own player regularly? Elliot is a great example of a typical English Championship player. All huff and puff...great engine and commitment...but i've seen 10 year olds with better passing skills and ball control. Read somewhere that about only a third to 40% of those who play in the PL on an average weekend are...English! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Sorry meant to say, we do not have a bias against creative midfielders - its just they are few and far between - not because of child coaching, but because there is a certain level of talent needed. George Best and Gazza both said the reason that defenders couldnt guess what they were going to do next was because they didnt know themselves. Both them and Maradonna - 3 of the best creative players ever had severe addiction issues - which points towards an innate obsessiveness that would mean they honed their skills without coaching or training. So maybe no coaching is the answer. Natural talent is often coached out of kids mate. Coaches want them to play to their way. Creativity often leads to something that hasn't been planned for. Coaches like to be in control and be able to plan for circumstances. To have players in certain places for eventual outcomes. It's become a game of percentages...hense why Pro Zone has become so popular. I've seen kids bollocked after individual pieces of play, that set up scoring opportunities, because they didn't keep to the game plan. If they had lost the ball, then the defense wasn't in the right positions to defend correctly. This is why you will often see players playing a safe pass. It's unbelievable how much players know how important their Pro Zone stats mean. Completed passes and amount run in a game, means a lot these days. Taking a chance and losing the ball can go against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Read somewhere that about only a third to 40% of those who play in the PL on an average weekend are...English! I think you are right mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kaiser Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 whats his career after us got to do with the price of fish? Good managers don't get sacked by shithouse clubs like Northampton and Peterborough. It shows that Johnson's level is lower league. Proving my point - he can't handle gifted, talented players or with a big name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Good managers don't get sacked by shithouse clubs like Northampton and Peterborough. It shows that Johnson's level is lower league. Proving my point - he can't handle gifted, talented players or with a big name. Warnock was sacked by plymouth and huddesfield doesn't stop him being a good manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kaiser Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Warnock was sacked by plymouth and huddesfield doesn't stop him being a good manager Look where Johnson took Northampton. Come on, he is a lower league manager. He doesn't like big named or luxury players - it's bleeding obvious. He loves his workhorses and ones who allow him to play the big man in the changing room. Read what Lee Trundle thought of his management style. That's my point. He's a decent enough lower league manager but not above a certain level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Look where Johnson took Northampton. Come on, he is a lower league manager. He doesn't like big named or luxury players - it's bleeding obvious. He loves his workhorses and ones who allow him to play the big man in the changing room. Read what Lee Trundle thought of his management style. That's my point. He's a decent enough lower league manager but not above a certain level. yea northampton he took a team 3rd from bottom kept them up and left them 3rd from bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kaiser Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 yea northampton he took a team 3rd from bottom kept them up and left them 3rd from bottom Hardly setting the world alight is it? Read what their fans thought of the style? Boring was mentioned the odd time. Remember his last season??? Some of the worst football I have ever seen down there, and I've seen some dross over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kaiser Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 And to bring it back to where I was going. Why was it boring??? Because he didn't like playing people like Trundle and Noble and instead we ended up watching useless workhorses like McCombe, McAllister and his fking son. He is not suited to managing talent like Noble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie_Turner Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Woooooooooooosh You've absolutely 'battered' him there Roger. Least I got the joke ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsontour Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 When was the last time you were at a BCFC game amazed at the individual skills of Last night. Adomah put 4 or 5 superb crosses in the box, and left defenders on their arse on about 3 occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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