Confusing Effort With Ability, Confusing A Win Over A Garbage Team With A Great Display.

[Redhyde]

This post is probably four games too soon, but I've become annoyed at the forgetfulness of people over the course of the 90 minutes today.It's a great result over an equally garbage team who by their managers own admissions had nothing in the tank. The difference today was physical we had fresh legs. You know who that is down to? SL backing our manager with loan signings, and Coventry's board selling all the best players out from under them. A victory for SL if ever there was one.

Let's speak about fresh legs. Cole Skuse. He ran around a lot today, he worked super hard, he worked hard against Forest too. He is a superb athlete. He is unfortunately the worst footballing midfielder at the club. I'm really sad to see people singing his praises today. This is what's wrong with British football. 100% effort is a minimum requirement, not a praiseworthy action. The fact he's being praised for running around, is an embarrassment to the standards we set ourselves when we came up.

Neil Kilkenny is another one who's been elevated above his station today. He did what? He played decently against a team running on fumes, a poor team running on fumes. He's meant to be the creative force in our midfield and to show up half a dozen games a season isn't something to shout about. He received the ball sprea it out to the wings and moved forwards to support. That's what he's meant to do, and what he's (over)paid to.

Richard Foster. Another case of what's wrong with football in these isles. I was reading with horror/fascination about his performance today. Do people not count distribution in a performance? Woeful player.

Brett Pitman gave the ultimate why I shouldn't start games in the championship audition. Passing, control, technique. Awful. His second touch was a poor pass or a tackle. Even the BBC commentator mentioned him putting in a shift. How about not giving the ball away constantly and not having to make up for your errors.

I'm super happy with the result. And at this stage of the season results are it. We got battered at Forest we won, we looked equal with an abysmal Coventry team and we won. I really care about this club, and this isn't a future I look forward to. We sign a team in the mold of players McInnes has brought in (in the summer) we're looking at a team of players who can't pass or control the ball. This group of players is dreadful.

I've been level headed throughout the McInnes reign. I'm concerned we're going to get much too self congratulatory on beating a team who lets an agent sign their players, a team who should have been liquidated by now, and a team stripped bare of any decent players over a perio of years. Let's not make the mistake we made when we lost in the playoffs, let's not reward failure. Maybe it didn't come across on Tv, but at Forest there was a massive gulf in the footballing intelligence of the two teams. They passed and moved, we were chasing them all over the park and lumping it long. Praising the people giving the ball away, for closing them back down is backwards. Don't give the ball away.

Maybe it will never click for some fans/managers.

This isn't about not getting behind the team, I don't want us to make the same mistakes again, and I don't want to be in this position ever again when it's avoidable. The top 5-6 in league 1 are either big clubs or have money behind them. This is the last year we can afford to be this bad. We were before but definitely now, a small fish in the big championship pond. And we need to think smarter to survive.

I know i'm going to get hit with the stop moaning, and get behind the lads cult that goes on. I'm delighted with the result. I'm concerned about the future. I'm frustrated by the celebration of mediocrity, It's possible to separate the issues.

Done until we start tearing up player's contracts, COYR.

[Olé]

If I'm honest I don't disagree with much of what you're saying, but now is not the time to say it. Now is the time for only a positive mentality about the club and our players that, whatever their limitations as you've described them, they will get us out of this over the next four games.

Once the season is in the books of course we should reflect on the capabilities of the squad and whether it is adequate to move forward, but right now is only time for believing in the players we have, because they are the only ones who will get us out of this and they've made a fine start.

Whilst I wouldn't necessarily disagree with some of the weaknesses you've pointed out, one point I would make is that we do and have had talented players who were technically capable, and yet still lost games. Rightly or wrongly, quality is not always essential at this level if the commitment is there.

And since commitment is the one thing we should be able to demand from any player, it's a good place to start. Whether McInnes has signed well or the players he's got are capable enough long term we can worry about in the summer, right now only points on the board matter, and believing we'll get them.

Incidentally our form over the past six games extrapolated would put us in the play off fight (63pts). Over DMc's reign it is 10-7-12 and would put us safe in 17th (54pts). Take out his dismal run through February and it's 10-6-6 and would put us 5th (69pts). The trick is never playing like we did in February again!

[Olé]

At the risk of replying to my own post, it'll be interesting, given its effect on DMc's record, to see how much our terrible form in February can be proved to be the exception rather than the rule. 1 point from 21 is diabolical in any league and I do wonder whether it was a period of blood letting not unlike the hand-grenade and necessary two steps back under Gary Johnson.

In this period we had 3 sendings off, lost Maynard and Elliott, shipped 18 goals in 7 games, changed the team on a weekly basis and brought in two loan signings - Wood and McManus. Given that by the end of the wretched run we'd bring in another three loan signings, it's not impossible this was DMc's own period of blood letting and not indicative of our potential form.

[Pete1975Legend]

Cracking post and is totally true. For some reason fans would rather see headless chickens run around for 90 minutes and show 'passion' rather than watch football......

[Stephen Lewis]

I think people are just glad that we may have another season in the championship, so their happy.

Better than being Mr Grumpy.

[leadman]

i dont disagree but.

were not barcelona, were a bottom half championship team.

skuse has allways been a good athlete but hes not a terrible footballer as you sugest, not great but not terrible.

the back four today gave there all, infact from what i have seen, they allways give there all, the loanees were just has pleased with the win as our own players.

i have just watched the game on a 42 inch flat screen from start to finnish, mcgivern and foster are very similiar, great at geting the block in but i do agree, distribution=woefull.

when maynard was here and alberts loss of form, the speed option as gone, we need to grind out results and hope we get enough points to stay in this division,there will be a few going and next years ins and outs will be pivitol.

the championship has been this type of division since the prems been in.

loads of workhorse pros with good engines, it clicked in november, we were as good as anyone, 2 months later, worst than anyone.

i dont know why that is.

i just hope we can get a chance to rebuild in the summer ready for another season in the championship because rochdale away just dosnt float me boat.

[Red Exile]

I don't want us to make the same mistakes again, and I don't want to be in this position ever again when it's avoidable.

Well said. Very thought provoking OP - and all true. The great hope when we came up was that the flashes of cultured football we played in that first season would build into something more solid. It's not really happened.

Quality needed. The quality we appeared to be recruiting when Hartley and Sno joined.

[Super]

This post is probably four games too soon, but I've become annoyed at the forgetfulness of people over the course of the 90 minutes today.It's a great result over an equally garbage team who by their managers own admissions had nothing in the tank. The difference today was physical we had fresh legs. You know who that is down to? SL backing our manager with loan signings, and Coventry's board selling all the best players out from under them. A victory for SL if ever there was one.

Let's speak about fresh legs. Cole Skuse. He ran around a lot today, he worked super hard, he worked hard against Forest too. He is a superb athlete. He is unfortunately the worst footballing midfielder at the club. I'm really sad to see people singing his praises today. This is what's wrong with British football. 100% effort is a minimum requirement, not a praiseworthy action. The fact he's being praised for running around, is an embarrassment to the standards we set ourselves when we came up.

Neil Kilkenny is another one who's been elevated above his station today. He did what? He played decently against a team running on fumes, a poor team running on fumes. He's meant to be the creative force in our midfield and to show up half a dozen games a season isn't something to shout about. He received the ball sprea it out to the wings and moved forwards to support. That's what he's meant to do, and what he's (over)paid to.

Richard Foster. Another case of what's wrong with football in these isles. I was reading with horror/fascination about his performance today. Do people not count distribution in a performance? Woeful player.

Brett Pitman gave the ultimate why I shouldn't start games in the championship audition. Passing, control, technique. Awful. His second touch was a poor pass or a tackle. Even the BBC commentator mentioned him putting in a shift. How about not giving the ball away constantly and not having to make up for your errors.

I'm super happy with the result. And at this stage of the season results are it. We got battered at Forest we won, we looked equal with an abysmal Coventry team and we won. I really care about this club, and this isn't a future I look forward to. We sign a team in the mold of players McInnes has brought in (in the summer) we're looking at a team of players who can't pass or control the ball. This group of players is dreadful.

I've been level headed throughout the McInnes reign. I'm concerned we're going to get much too self congratulatory on beating a team who lets an agent sign their players, a team who should have been liquidated by now, and a team stripped bare of any decent players over a perio of years. Let's not make the mistake we made when we lost in the playoffs, let's not reward failure. Maybe it didn't come across on Tv, but at Forest there was a massive gulf in the footballing intelligence of the two teams. They passed and moved, we were chasing them all over the park and lumping it long. Praising the people giving the ball away, for closing them back down is backwards. Don't give the ball away.

Maybe it will never click for some fans/managers.

This isn't about not getting behind the team, I don't want us to make the same mistakes again, and I don't want to be in this position ever again when it's avoidable. The top 5-6 in league 1 are either big clubs or have money behind them. This is the last year we can afford to be this bad. We were before but definitely now, a small fish in the big championship pond. And we need to think smarter to survive.

I know i'm going to get hit with the stop moaning, and get behind the lads cult that goes on. I'm delighted with the result. I'm concerned about the future. I'm frustrated by the celebration of mediocrity, It's possible to separate the issues.

Done until we start tearing up player's contracts, COYR.

Cole skuse the worst footballing midfielder at the club?! Joke post.

[Super]

i dont disagree but.

were not barcelona, were a bottom half championship team.

skuse has allways been a good athlete but hes not a terrible footballer as you sugest, not great but not terrible.

the back four today gave there all, infact from what i have seen, they allways give there all, the loanees were just has pleased with the win as our own players.

i have just watched the game on a 42 inch flat screen from start to finnish, mcgivern and foster are very similiar, great at geting the block in but i do agree, distribution=woefull.

when maynard was here and alberts loss of form, the speed option as gone, we need to grind out results and hope we get enough points to stay in this division,there will be a few going and next years ins and outs will be pivitol.

the championship has been this type of division since the prems been in.

loads of workhorse pros with good engines, it clicked in november, we were as good as anyone, 2 months later, worst than anyone.

i dont know why that is.

i just hope we can get a chance to rebuild in the summer ready for another season in the championship because rochdale away just dosnt float me boat.

Great post

[Murraysrightplum]

Everyone knows we are crap. What is the point in going on and on about it. Enjoy the win for once

[Robbored]

RedHyde, Most fans with an element of common sense know the strengths and weaknesses of various players at City. Its those weaknesses that over the season have led us to be flirting with the drop zone for most of it.

I don't see that there is much point in repeating whats been posted countless times after City have won back to back games when it really mattered and are now on a run of four undefeated.

It hasn't been pretty but as others have said its results that matter and what we've seen in the last 4 games and especially the last 2 is a new found determination and increase in effort but the players haven't turned into better players overnight, too many of them are still lacking in quality. Its been a realisation that City are really in the shite and they've developed a new found mind set. Just in time as the Easter weekend has showed.

[Murraysrightplum]

Exactly RR. We know what we are good at (not much) and we know where we are poor (most things) but at least the team are showing fight and passion to stay up. A lot of players out of contract at the end of the season so a total rebuild in the championship needed

[JammyOne]

Cole Skuse worst midfielder at our club?! You're joking right? Please say you're joking.

Skuse is by far the BEST midfielder we have, it's only since Skuse has come back from injury have we started winning any games.

Cisse and Kilkenny are definitely no better.

[chipdawg]

Much of what you say is true. It also matters not one bit at this stage in this season. All we need to do is set up a team to be slightly less shit than the opposing team. If we do that by superior physical conditioning then so be it; running around is all part of the game, no matter how much people want us to have the Championships versions of Xavi and Iniesta in central. We are not a good team and we do not have the luxury of attempting to play good football midfield. As the old adage goes, you can only play what's infront of you and we did that and did it well. First let's secure Championship status, then we'll look at type of football we're playin and the footballers who are playing it

As an aside, your criticisms of Skuse are both unfair and inaccurate, not least because we have Marvin Elliot in the squad- a player who I regard as a latter day legend but one who is pretty much bereft of any semblance of technique or ability on the ball. Skuse's ability on the ball is underrated but I'm not sure how he can be criticised for being an athlete. Most of the great teams of recent times have had a runner in midfield and most of the great midfielders have had an 'engine'. You can be a good player and run around a lot

[spudski]

Footballing skills seem to go by the wayside these days. It's more about being athletic, fast and being able to run for 90 odd minutes.

There used to be a term... 'Let the ball do the work'... Run into space, receive and pass. A lot of players refuse or don't know how to run into space. A lot of the 'distribution' looks woeful from our fullbacks, because our midfield and forwards don't make themselves readily available for a pass. Diagonal runs and coming back to receive the ball, seem a long distant memory. They just sit on the shoulder of the last defender....

Someone mentioned Barcelona...you don't need to be Barcelona....but at least have some footballing nowse.

I agree with the OP... it's a sham that 'players' can't do what used to be expected as the basics.

Great result... but i fear if we stay up, this is the type of football we will have to endure week in week out.

Doing a 'Swansea'.... would be my favoured route in the future.

[Port Said Red]

I couldn't disagree with the original poster more. We have just ground out two great results not with "rubbish players" but with players that are no better or worse than many other teams in this league. Where they really seem to be lacking are in both self confidence and on pitch leadership. Look at the Watford game, we started brightly enough, but two atrocious goals they visibly shrank on the pitch. The first will come with more results like the ones at the weekend and good management, the second? well we may have to invest for that but, even last week when Amougou was being given stick on here for his personal performance, I did notice that he had a chat with Foster that seemed to improve his performance and yesterday he was a very calming influence on all around him. More like that is the sort of thing we need to be getting from more of our players.

I get fed up with posts which focus on where the players are lacking rather than doing what a good manager does and focussing on what they can bring to the side.

[CotswoldRed]

The OP is essentially right.

100% effort and a bit of luck might give you a good cup run. It won't give you league success. You'll always be found out over 46 games.

[gordie]

Cracking post and is totally true. For some reason fans would rather see headless chickens run around for 90 minutes and show 'passion' rather than watch football......

im not sure thats true but when your team hasn't got the footballing abilities in them then they have to show passion as a minimum something which we have missed a lot this season.

[Red-Robbo]

Perhaps the OP should be watching Real Madrid or Barca or someone. This is lower half of the Championship football and yes, effort counts for as much as ability.

And that's why the crowd were jubilant - we saw effort and commitment put in for the first home game in a fair while and we put the ball in the net 4 times (well, 5 counting the OG!!!) This after netting twice away at a side who had started to put together a tidy run.

I'm sure no-one is suggesting this is the side that will lead us to some sort of triumph in 2012/13. If we survive in this division, it will be by the skin of our teeth. But everyone knows there will be a wholesale clearout this summer and things will be a whole new ballgame.

To say it is all down to SL is a bit like saying any top of the table side don't deserve to be there because it's only down to their financial backer allowing them to buy all those good players.

I disagree with the OP's player assessments too. Skuse, as well as cueing up a goal, stopped numerous Coventry runs with some precision tackling. He couldn't score in the proverbial house of ill repute, but as a defensive minded midfielder he is excellent.

Above all, let's stop being negative about an Easter weekend that saw us take 6 points. Three more, in all honesty, than I expected.

[meltonmowbrayred]

This post is probably four games too soon, but I've become annoyed at the forgetfulness of people over the course of the 90 minutes today.It's a great result over an equally garbage team who by their managers own admissions had nothing in the tank. The difference today was physical we had fresh legs. You know who that is down to? SL backing our manager with loan signings, and Coventry's board selling all the best players out from under them. A victory for SL if ever there was one.

Let's speak about fresh legs. Cole Skuse. He ran around a lot today, he worked super hard, he worked hard against Forest too. He is a superb athlete. He is unfortunately the worst footballing midfielder at the club. I'm really sad to see people singing his praises today. This is what's wrong with British football. 100% effort is a minimum requirement, not a praiseworthy action. The fact he's being praised for running around, is an embarrassment to the standards we set ourselves when we came up.

Neil Kilkenny is another one who's been elevated above his station today. He did what? He played decently against a team running on fumes, a poor team running on fumes. He's meant to be the creative force in our midfield and to show up half a dozen games a season isn't something to shout about. He received the ball sprea it out to the wings and moved forwards to support. That's what he's meant to do, and what he's (over)paid to.

Richard Foster. Another case of what's wrong with football in these isles. I was reading with horror/fascination about his performance today. Do people not count distribution in a performance? Woeful player.

Brett Pitman gave the ultimate why I shouldn't start games in the championship audition. Passing, control, technique. Awful. His second touch was a poor pass or a tackle. Even the BBC commentator mentioned him putting in a shift. How about not giving the ball away constantly and not having to make up for your errors.

I'm super happy with the result. And at this stage of the season results are it. We got battered at Forest we won, we looked equal with an abysmal Coventry team and we won. I really care about this club, and this isn't a future I look forward to. We sign a team in the mold of players McInnes has brought in (in the summer) we're looking at a team of players who can't pass or control the ball. This group of players is dreadful.

I've been level headed throughout the McInnes reign. I'm concerned we're going to get much too self congratulatory on beating a team who lets an agent sign their players, a team who should have been liquidated by now, and a team stripped bare of any decent players over a perio of years. Let's not make the mistake we made when we lost in the playoffs, let's not reward failure. Maybe it didn't come across on Tv, but at Forest there was a massive gulf in the footballing intelligence of the two teams. They passed and moved, we were chasing them all over the park and lumping it long. Praising the people giving the ball away, for closing them back down is backwards. Don't give the ball away.

Maybe it will never click for some fans/managers.

This isn't about not getting behind the team, I don't want us to make the same mistakes again, and I don't want to be in this position ever again when it's avoidable. The top 5-6 in league 1 are either big clubs or have money behind them. This is the last year we can afford to be this bad. We were before but definitely now, a small fish in the big championship pond. And we need to think smarter to survive.

I know i'm going to get hit with the stop moaning, and get behind the lads cult that goes on. I'm delighted with the result. I'm concerned about the future. I'm frustrated by the celebration of mediocrity, It's possible to separate the issues.

Done until we start tearing up player's contracts, COYR.

Based on your Skuse comments, it doesn,t sound like you were at the game or if you were you dont know much about football.

Skuse was the best player on the pitch; not only did he put in some great tackles to get the crowd going (exactly what we needed) he didnt give the ball away like many others did. Skuse is a proper footballer at this level and wether he is a good/great player was irrelavant in the context of what we needed today. He needed to step up today as Albert, Pearson, Foster and Mcgiven were poor, and he did that. He,s also a decent right back.

"Elevated above his station" he was not; he was one of the reasons we scraped through this vital game. Wether he is good enough going forward is another discussion.

[Mad Cyril]

Based on your Skuse comments, it doesn,t sound like you were at the game or if you were you dont know much about football.

Skuse was the best player on the pitch; not only did he put in some great tackles to get the crowd going (exactly what we needed) he didnt give the ball away like many others did. Skuse is a proper footballer at this level and wether he is a good/great player was irrelavant in the context of what we needed today. He needed to step up today as Albert, Pearson, Foster and Mcgiven were poor, and he did that. He,s also a decent right back.

"Elevated above his station" he was not; he was one of the reasons we scraped through this vital game. Wether he is good enough going forward is another discussion.

Thought provoking original post at the start of this thread.

Two things for me though, firstly you have to remember McInnes has only had one transfer window (the notoriously rubbish January one) and a hugely swollen squad limiting capacity to bring in many new players. He has not had a chance to build a footballing team, just the challenge of remoulding a team who did not know how to win. The priority is also very different when the team you take over is propping up the league.

Secondly, Scuse. Sorry, for me he is and should remain the first name on the team sheet. If you want dazzling wing play, shots and stinging 70 yard passes look elsewhere. But if you want someone who will consistantly work for 90 minutes, monopolise all the decent tackles made by the team (in both the middle and your own penalty area), make time for yourself on the ball, play simple passes, more or less never give the ball away, not pick up red cards, only get minimal injuries (involving things breaking rather than wusey muscle strains), and genuinely play a key part in the team, he is your man.

Tommy Doc was never known for much diferent, but the recognition he got was probably helped by the fact that other players around him at the time did their job properly, a job which was very different to his. Leave the long passes to Tinman, and the shooting to Super Bob.

Scuse is not Messi. But then again neither were Makelele, Mascherano, Batty, Roy Keane, or Gattuso - would their respective teams have been as balanced or successful without them?

I also believe Scuse is our best right back, but largely unable to play there given our lack of defensive midfield cover at a time we are fighting for survival and desperately need to 'win ugly'.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Agree on longer term issues, however I thought we did fine yesterday- if nothing else a great spirit and resilience, one which will be needed in each of the last 4 games if we are to survive- 4 games to go of a relegation dogfight isn't really the time for such concerns I'd say but absolutely in the medium to longer term.

[Fordy62]

Thought provoking original post at the start of this thread.

Two things for me though, firstly you have to remember McInnes has only had one transfer window (the notoriously rubbish January one) and a hugely swollen squad limiting capacity to bring in many new players. He has not had a chance to build a footballing team, just the challenge of remoulding a team who did not know how to win. The priority is also very different when the team you take over is propping up the league.

Secondly, Scuse. Sorry, for me he is and should remain the first name on the team sheet. If you want dazzling wing play, shots and stinging 70 yard passes look elsewhere. But if you want someone who will consistantly work for 90 minutes, monopolise all the decent tackles made by the team (in both the middle and your own penalty area), make time for yourself on the ball, play simple passes, more or less never give the ball away, not pick up red cards, only get minimal injuries (involving things breaking rather than wusey muscle strains), and genuinely play a key part in the team, he is your man.

Tommy Doc was never known for much diferent, but the recognition he got was probably helped by the fact that other players around him at the time did their job properly, a job which was very different to his. Leave the long passes to Tinman, and the shooting to Super Bob.

Scuse is not Messi. But then again neither were Makelele, Mascherano, Batty, Roy Keane, or Gattuso - would their respective teams have been as balanced or successful without them?

I also believe Scuse is our best right back, but largely unable to play there given our lack of defensive midfield cover at a time we are fighting for survival and desperately need to 'win ugly'.

Correct.

[southvillekiddy]

Brian Clough said it to Motty.

Don't spoil our fun by trying to be a clever dick

[glynriley]

This post is probably four games too soon, but I've become annoyed at the forgetfulness of people over the course of the 90 minutes today.It's a great result over an equally garbage team who by their managers own admissions had nothing in the tank. The difference today was physical we had fresh legs. You know who that is down to? SL backing our manager with loan signings, and Coventry's board selling all the best players out from under them. A victory for SL if ever there was one.

Let's speak about fresh legs. Cole Skuse. He ran around a lot today, he worked super hard, he worked hard against Forest too. He is a superb athlete. He is unfortunately the worst footballing midfielder at the club. I'm really sad to see people singing his praises today. This is what's wrong with British football. 100% effort is a minimum requirement, not a praiseworthy action. The fact he's being praised for running around, is an embarrassment to the standards we set ourselves when we came up.

Neil Kilkenny is another one who's been elevated above his station today. He did what? He played decently against a team running on fumes, a poor team running on fumes. He's meant to be the creative force in our midfield and to show up half a dozen games a season isn't something to shout about. He received the ball sprea it out to the wings and moved forwards to support. That's what he's meant to do, and what he's (over)paid to.

Richard Foster. Another case of what's wrong with football in these isles. I was reading with horror/fascination about his performance today. Do people not count distribution in a performance? Woeful player.

Brett Pitman gave the ultimate why I shouldn't start games in the championship audition. Passing, control, technique. Awful. His second touch was a poor pass or a tackle. Even the BBC commentator mentioned him putting in a shift. How about not giving the ball away constantly and not having to make up for your errors.

I'm super happy with the result. And at this stage of the season results are it. We got battered at Forest we won, we looked equal with an abysmal Coventry team and we won. I really care about this club, and this isn't a future I look forward to. We sign a team in the mold of players McInnes has brought in (in the summer) we're looking at a team of players who can't pass or control the ball. This group of players is dreadful.

I've been level headed throughout the McInnes reign. I'm concerned we're going to get much too self congratulatory on beating a team who lets an agent sign their players, a team who should have been liquidated by now, and a team stripped bare of any decent players over a perio of years. Let's not make the mistake we made when we lost in the playoffs, let's not reward failure. Maybe it didn't come across on Tv, but at Forest there was a massive gulf in the footballing intelligence of the two teams. They passed and moved, we were chasing them all over the park and lumping it long. Praising the people giving the ball away, for closing them back down is backwards. Don't give the ball away.

Maybe it will never click for some fans/managers.

This isn't about not getting behind the team, I don't want us to make the same mistakes again, and I don't want to be in this position ever again when it's avoidable. The top 5-6 in league 1 are either big clubs or have money behind them. This is the last year we can afford to be this bad. We were before but definitely now, a small fish in the big championship pond. And we need to think smarter to survive.

I know i'm going to get hit with the stop moaning, and get behind the lads cult that goes on. I'm delighted with the result. I'm concerned about the future. I'm frustrated by the celebration of mediocrity, It's possible to separate the issues.

Done until we start tearing up player's contracts, COYR.

Interesting that you seem to have reservations about DMc's ability in the transfer market , yet you have picked out 3 players out 4 that he never signed.

[chipdawg]

Interesting that you seem to have reservations about DMc's ability in the transfer market , yet you have picked out 3 players out 4 that he never signed.

Also, other than Roberts going to Reading, I'm struggling to think of any player signed by any team in January who is making a difference. WHam spent big but have dropped from 1st to third in that time. Decent players just aren't available during the time periods Del has been in charge. Not saying his judgement in terms of players and tactics has been flawless, but I don't think his ability in the transfer market should e judged until September

[Brizzle Jordan]

3 points is 3 points, if you win 7-0 or scrape a 1-0 against a rubbish team.

[cider_dog]

This post is probably four games too soon, but I've become annoyed at the forgetfulness of people over the course of the 90 minutes today.It's a great result over an equally garbage team who by their managers own admissions had nothing in the tank. The difference today was physical we had fresh legs. You know who that is down to? SL backing our manager with loan signings, and Coventry's board selling all the best players out from under them. A victory for SL if ever there was one.

Let's speak about fresh legs. Cole Skuse. He ran around a lot today, he worked super hard, he worked hard against Forest too. He is a superb athlete. He is unfortunately the worst footballing midfielder at the club. I'm really sad to see people singing his praises today. This is what's wrong with British football. 100% effort is a minimum requirement, not a praiseworthy action. The fact he's being praised for running around, is an embarrassment to the standards we set ourselves when we came up.

Neil Kilkenny is another one who's been elevated above his station today. He did what? He played decently against a team running on fumes, a poor team running on fumes. He's meant to be the creative force in our midfield and to show up half a dozen games a season isn't something to shout about. He received the ball sprea it out to the wings and moved forwards to support. That's what he's meant to do, and what he's (over)paid to.

Richard Foster. Another case of what's wrong with football in these isles. I was reading with horror/fascination about his performance today. Do people not count distribution in a performance? Woeful player.

Brett Pitman gave the ultimate why I shouldn't start games in the championship audition. Passing, control, technique. Awful. His second touch was a poor pass or a tackle. Even the BBC commentator mentioned him putting in a shift. How about not giving the ball away constantly and not having to make up for your errors.

I'm super happy with the result. And at this stage of the season results are it. We got battered at Forest we won, we looked equal with an abysmal Coventry team and we won. I really care about this club, and this isn't a future I look forward to. We sign a team in the mold of players McInnes has brought in (in the summer) we're looking at a team of players who can't pass or control the ball. This group of players is dreadful.

I've been level headed throughout the McInnes reign. I'm concerned we're going to get much too self congratulatory on beating a team who lets an agent sign their players, a team who should have been liquidated by now, and a team stripped bare of any decent players over a perio of years. Let's not make the mistake we made when we lost in the playoffs, let's not reward failure. Maybe it didn't come across on Tv, but at Forest there was a massive gulf in the footballing intelligence of the two teams. They passed and moved, we were chasing them all over the park and lumping it long. Praising the people giving the ball away, for closing them back down is backwards. Don't give the ball away.

Maybe it will never click for some fans/managers.

This isn't about not getting behind the team, I don't want us to make the same mistakes again, and I don't want to be in this position ever again when it's avoidable. The top 5-6 in league 1 are either big clubs or have money behind them. This is the last year we can afford to be this bad. We were before but definitely now, a small fish in the big championship pond. And we need to think smarter to survive.

I know i'm going to get hit with the stop moaning, and get behind the lads cult that goes on. I'm delighted with the result. I'm concerned about the future. I'm frustrated by the celebration of mediocrity, It's possible to separate the issues.

Done until we start tearing up player's contracts, COYR.

"This isn't about not getting behind the team..." With 4 games left to go, what else are you suggesting fans do?

Some of the points you make are valid, but FFS if we had won 10-nil yesterday you would still be looking for something to moan about!

Give some credit where it's due, 7 points from a possible 9 is survival form, regardless of the squads shortcomings.

Tool.

[One BCFC]

This post is probably four games too soon, but I've become annoyed at the forgetfulness of people over the course of the 90 minutes today.It's a great result over an equally garbage team who by their managers own admissions had nothing in the tank. The difference today was physical we had fresh legs. You know who that is down to? SL backing our manager with loan signings, and Coventry's board selling all the best players out from under them. A victory for SL if ever there was one.

Let's speak about fresh legs. Cole Skuse. He ran around a lot today, he worked super hard, he worked hard against Forest too. He is a superb athlete. He is unfortunately the worst footballing midfielder at the club. I'm really sad to see people singing his praises today. This is what's wrong with British football. 100% effort is a minimum requirement, not a praiseworthy action. The fact he's being praised for running around, is an embarrassment to the standards we set ourselves when we came up.

Neil Kilkenny is another one who's been elevated above his station today. He did what? He played decently against a team running on fumes, a poor team running on fumes. He's meant to be the creative force in our midfield and to show up half a dozen games a season isn't something to shout about. He received the ball sprea it out to the wings and moved forwards to support. That's what he's meant to do, and what he's (over)paid to.

Richard Foster. Another case of what's wrong with football in these isles. I was reading with horror/fascination about his performance today. Do people not count distribution in a performance? Woeful player.

Brett Pitman gave the ultimate why I shouldn't start games in the championship audition. Passing, control, technique. Awful. His second touch was a poor pass or a tackle. Even the BBC commentator mentioned him putting in a shift. How about not giving the ball away constantly and not having to make up for your errors.

Sick of fans like this, just get out of the club if you can't celebrate a win with the players! It's a team game. Now f*&k off

[Taunton_Red]

How are they a garbage team if they went 7 games without a loss? some teams must have found it difficult to beat them, we just caught them at the right time when they were tired from Saturday, and a deserved win without a doubt!