Bbc News Goes In On Otib, Says Stadium Opponents Victimised (Merged Topics)

[Kenn Loyal]

Not sure if you are aware but you can see reported crime here http://www.police.uk...streets/2011-01 looking at the crime figures they are very high over a 12 month period, I hope no one is carrying this out think they are helping the cause and I do worry some misguided morons are behind this. It certainly doesn't help our cause. I also think the nimbys are by no means whiter than white and the bbc seem out to perform a hatchet job on us as this has allready been reported several times in the last few months .If you want to hear how poor the bbc are you should listen to radio Bristol on a morning, Steve le fevre is the worst presenter ever and his opinion is all that counts on his debates. He had a story that HP were against the gas stadium and ran a large part of his show about it only to then say that they weren't opposed and just had concerns that were already being discussed and addressed. Then he had pensions mp Steve Webb on and when he asked Steve Webb why mps didn't have the same pensions cuts as public sector workers (Steve Webb replied that they were) he then replied that it was one rule for one and one for another completely misquoting him. The only two people I would listen to on radio Bristol are Ben prator and GT.

Your quite correct Radio Bristol/Points West is a total crock of shite, with third rate presenters, working for a third rate organisition.

[The Humble Realist]

One thing that mustn't be missed here....IF any of those acts or any future acts of vandlism r linked to the club or its fan then this behaviour is mindless and can only undermine the stadium bid.

As I said....IF!

[The Humble Realist]

Nice work Ian. I also sent in a complaint earlier but got the same reply as everyone else.

We carried out a detailed investigation into the situation regarding the

Bristol City development and we are satisfied that our report represents

the situation fairly and accurately.

There is clearly a strong belief, as we report, amongst some opponents

of the stadium that their viewpoint has prompted acts of vandalism

against them. It is legitimate to report this even if there is, as we

state, according to the police no actual evidence that their stance is

behind the recent spate of vandalism in the area.

This having been said, I think it is important to note that the judge

presiding over the civil proceedings said there was "convincing evidence

of incidents of harassment and intimidation".

The line about the snipers and bamboo came from the forum to which you

refer. We clearly mark the comments simply as quotes from this source

and include them as a measure of the strength of feeling on the issue

however 'humorously' intended.

Supporters groups are welcome to contact us any time if they wish their

views to be represented in subsequent stories. As you will note from the

story, on this occasion, none wished to take part when approached.

Best wishes,

Laura Ellis, Head of New Media, BBC English Regions

I must say she makes a gud point in that otib and the club hv declined to comment paving the way for a one sided story.

Furthermore, if a judge says there is potentially harrasment, the beeb cnt be blamed for reporting an element of it.

We r all bristol city fans so r bound to be unhappy at the story

[Ian M]

Not sure if you are aware but you can see reported crime here http://www.police.uk/crime/?q=Silbury%20Rd,%20Bristol%20BS3,%20UK#streets/2011-01 looking at the crime figures they are very high over a 12 month period, I hope no one is carrying this out think they are helping the cause and I do worry some misguided morons are behind this. It certainly doesn't help our cause. I also think the nimbys are by no means whiter than white and the bbc seem out to perform a hatchet job on us as this has allready been reported several times in the last few months .If you want to hear how poor the bbc are you should listen to radio Bristol on a morning, Steve le fevre is the worst presenter ever and his opinion is all that counts on his debates. He had a story that HP were against the gas stadium and ran a large part of his show about it only to then say that they weren't opposed and just had concerns that were already being discussed and addressed. Then he had pensions mp Steve Webb on and when he asked Steve Webb why mps didn't have the same pensions cuts as public sector workers (Steve Webb replied that they were) he then replied that it was one rule for one and one for another completely misquoting him. The only two people I would listen to on radio Bristol are Ben prator and GT.

It seems that going back to the start of the data period shown on that website that Silbury Road has a particular problem with both Anti-Social Behaviour & Violent crime which dwarfs any other kind of crime including the acts of criminal damage that the BBC has reported. Even in the worst month for criminal damage (October 11) there was more "violent crime" committed at this location. In short, looking at the crime figures, it doesn't sound like a particularly pleasant road to live on.

In the period from February to November 2011 this is a breakdown of the offences that happened on this one road:

Anti Social Behaviour 29

Violent Crime 17

Criminal Damage 5

Other Crime 3

[CiderHider]

Just watched online http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01hxm7x/BBC_Points_West_25_05_2012/

BBC imply OTIB is responsible for these attacks, and what about the posters who appeared on TV?

Reputations sullied.

[Olé]

A few people have pointed out that things have played into NIMBYs hands and that perhaps even the tone here has. I don't think this is an unreasonable view and I do think we all need to remember there is a right way and a wrong way to get your point across and support the club and in particular the LAND OWNER's rights in this planning matter.

However, whether or not anything played into and justified the BASIS for this story that does not justify or excuse a PUBLIC SERVICE broadcaster for the presentation and content of the story (you'll always find reasons to justify why you set out to do something, as BBC responses seem to do, but far less to justify the hatchet job you actually did, as BBC responses have failed to do).

And on that BBC presentation and content of the story:

1.

As others have pointed out, why does an article that ends "There is no evidence to suggest that the offences are linked to objections to Bristol City Football Club's plans for a new stadium" start with the headline "Bristol City stadium opponents in harassment claim" and "Opponents of a proposed football stadium in Bristol had...". This seems to be wildly contradictory presentation.

Based on their quiet admission at the end of the story, their story is no more than "some people are victims of crime", the connection and reference to the planning matter is entirely implied and not the product of any investigation.

2.

The BBC investigation contains no independent evidence to back up the claims reported (the local journalist responsible has evidently confused 'investigation' with 'being told something') and relies on anonymous claims from people with a vested interest to demonise their opponents and a self-stated victim card to play. That the BBC can't see this in order to offer a more even handed report, and instead was completely used as a vehicle for a very deliberate anti-stadium agenda under the misleading title of "investigation", is really amateur and not at all PUBLIC SERVICE.

3.

Why have they decided now to dedicate any time to an investigation and write such a poor piece based on a handful of experiences, full of anti-stadium innuendo but lacking any evidence, when for over two years they've not once "investigated" (if they were even capable) fraudulent claims of a tiny minority about land uses for which there is documented and easily investigated evidence to report that contradicts these claims, and which otherwise has cost local taxpayers hundreds of thousands of pounds to address. Surely that is far more PUBLIC INTEREST news for a PUBLIC SERVICE broadcaster.

In short, the local BBC have declined to ever investigate a far more documented matter that has cost us huge amounts of money and has stopped a development tens of thousands of people in the area explicitly wrote in support of, but has decided to publish anonymous claims from a minority with a clear agenda, disguised as an investigation. Either way you look at this it is either utterly unbalanced coverage of a local matter, or just rank bad journalism.

4.

Publishing spurious and self evidently tongue in cheek comments from an Internet forum discussion out of context as if somehow sinister is utterly unforgivable. Do we really pay our PUBLIC SERVICE broadcasters to trawl the Internet and highlight every frustrated remark? Or to then use such thoroughly benign, commonplace, conversational remarks as part of a supposed serious investigation. Where would it end? For every "he should be shot for that" there are people in every street, every pub, every Internet forum, and guess what, every BBC office saying something that could be interpreted as sinister if you had either just landed on this planet or were a third rate BBC local media journalist.

The problem here is people in "New Media" are all very excited by the Internet and for their own self esteem remain convinced (or is that deluded) that, like in their own self-important roles, the Internet is a broadcast medium (New media, plural of medium, of which Internet is one medium for broadcasting through). The trouble is, they're wrong. The Internet is just a communications medium, it does not and never has implied any specific attachment or responsibility towards a particular application of communications, such as broadcasting. Or in simpler terms, the Internet is just an electronic, connected version of how we interact in the real world, nothing more. Only in "New Media" and "Broadcast" circles do they believe it serves a higher purpose of telling as many people as possible.

As if to demonstrate the point The head of New Media, Laura Ellis, refers to excerpts from here as 'quotes'. Given that OTIB is just a communications medium, not a broadcast medium, for City fans to stay connected and talk to one another, the idea of quoting anything from here is as ridiculous as quoting something overheard in the pub or found scrawled on a toilet wall. There is no excuse for a national broadcaster to be supporting the tone of its' so-called investigation by quoting throwaway remarks from a conversation on OTIB that never at any time sought to be broadcast and was presumably made by anonymous persons unknown to the BBC. Had they wanted the BBC to report their plans I'm sure the posters responsible would have contacted the BBC with details and identified themselves personally, and had they actually intended snipers or bamboo pits, I'm quite sure they wouldn't have posted about it in the first place.

That a head of New Media can't spot this in choosing to stand by these excerpts as meaningful quotes (in addition to her journalists apparently being unable to produce a real investigation let alone even handed coverage) suggests to me that this whole unit that WE pay for is completely incapable and unfit to do the jobs they're paid for. And from her frankly bizarre defence of using material from the Internet at large as being sensible or constructive reporting, I'm not sure the Head of New Media is even fit to use the Internet. Perhaps she'd like to quote me: "Laura Ellis is an idiot."

5.

Finally, get 100 serious journalists with experience of investigative journalism and see how many believe the following anonymous quote is the unscripted outpouring of a victim and how many believe it is a thought out, precisely constructed victimisation claim created to suit an agenda:

"Because it's a small community, names were easy to come by and the physical and verbal abuse started - cowardly and vindictive attacks designed to intimidate and force a withdrawal. People started to feel imprisoned, afraid to talk to anyone. Old friends and family started to become distant. What kind of a city do we live in that someone seeking an independent review of a council decision needs anonymity for their own safety?"

I mean really, have you read this? Seriously? It's scripted for maximum effect, it's not how people talk when interviewed (so no doubt this rigorous investigation is now boiling down to at best an email conversation, at worst PR sent to the BBC) and has quite clearly to anyone with half a brain been produced very deliberately for the anti-stadium agenda.

Only an amateur local journalist would fail to spot this and just publish the quote verbatim, or someone working at the BBC deliberately in support of this sad, desperate, fraudulent minority.

Congratulations BBC Bristol, you've just been used.

[Dollymarie]

Ole. Please send that to the IPCC, because I doubt you will get anywhere with the local BBC

[Br 1st ol]

As disappointing as it is to read this article, I congratulate the nimbys

They have out thought and out manoeuvred us.

They have cleverly used the media, and got a result.

Yes, we should be upset with BBC, but we should be more upset at being out thought, and up our game.

We all have media contacts, and could have used them earlier, to our advantage.

A proper thought out pr plan needs to be put together, urgently.

The club has its own inhouse expertise, amongst OTIB and other fans there are journalist and PR experts. The club could host a pr think tank session and use these resources to out think the other side.

Congrats to the other side , but we can fight back.

[Crackers Corner]

Can I suggest the best response would be anyone who has genuinely been on the receiving end from the nimbys contact the EP. Who knows with the non forum transfer scoops of late and if they can print a balanced article rather than the pathetic one sided bbc reprint of old news, the ep might just go up in folks perception?

[Olé]

From her office in Tonbridge, Kent, with its' bang on the pulse sense of right and wrong in Bristol news stories, in her role overseeing 60 local online "news" reporters from around the country, Laura Ellis has remarked of references to OTIB remarks "We clearly mark the comments simply as quotes from this source and include them as a measure of the strength of feeling on the issue".

On that note, here are some quotes from a 30 year veteran at the BBC, Laurie Mayer, who read the Breakfast, 1 O'Clock and 6 O'Clock newsa. I post them only as a measure of the strength of feeling on the issue that Laura Ellis is a nasty, vindictive bully and therefore a bit of a See You Next Tuesday. Under the heading of "Bullying at the BBC" he commented:

"In charge of the operation was Laura Ellis ... At her little corner of the BBC, dissent is ruthlessly stamped upon. The management at Tunbridge Wells - Laura Ellis, output editor Rod Beards and his assistant editor (and fiancée) Davina Reynolds - operate a nasty, vindictive climate of fear. It was not uncommon for people to be found in the toilets in tears. the stories they told me were deeply distressing. Several have been on long-term sick leave and have been treated for stress because of the vitriolic abuse they have had to endure. One woman is openly called "that bitch" by her superiors, who loudly complain that they must find a way to get rid of her. If anyone so much raised an eyebrow in dissent, they were told that their careers in television were over."

[cityexile]

Exactly

However my friends a few have played right into their hands.And STILL it carries on and the mods!!!... at a time when they really are needed, are silent.

Odd very Odd.

Perhaps we can reflect on all this for the next so many years at Ashton Gate, and wonder where it all went wrong? Personally I love AG but if the club is to achieve Premier status as is right and proper for Bristol then all those that represent me and my club with violence and threats go 'support' someone else and leave the business to negotiating to those that will achieve the right results..

Jog on.

Clearly anyone remotely involved with criminal acts like throwing bricks would be roundly condemed on here, and the talk of weapons is very clearly tongue in cheek. I also think it would be completely self defeating if we all had to look at every post we make in case it was taken as a press release.

Were is the violence? The threats?

Lets not fall in to the trap of believing their propoganda ourselves!

[Tales From The Front]

As disappointing as it is to read this article, I congratulate the nimbys

They have out thought and out manoeuvred us.

They have cleverly used the media, and got a result.

Yes, we should be upset with BBC, but we should be more upset at being out thought, and up our game.

We all have media contacts, and could have used them earlier, to our advantage.

A proper thought out pr plan needs to be put together, urgently.

The club has its own inhouse expertise, amongst OTIB and other fans there are journalist and PR experts. The club could host a pr think tank session and use these resources to out think the other side.

Congrats to the other side , but we can fight back.

You are right, I guess everyone connected with wishing to develope AV has used the collective benifits to the Football Club, local economy and community as a wohle as justification for why this project especially in a time of depression in the construction is necessary and valid. And perhaps we all nievely thought that the planning process would work out that way, which to be fair it has. What was not accounted for was a "professional" organisation behind to Village Green Campaign who would use every trick however how tenuous to ensure that a "common sence" and acceptable solution to this debate was diffciult if not impossiable to reach.

The "5th" column involved in this has ensured that both sides are further apart now than they have ever been and this is a a very sad state of affairs I beleive for the genuine people of Bristol many of whome are just pawns in a much bigger politcal game. This spurious and unbalancessed piece of journilsm is the latest part of their propganda battle, its funny how the 14th of June isn't that far away is it?

I of course as others have said condem outright any acts of anti social behaviour or intimidation that occur all over the City of Bristol on a daily baisis and would hope the law enforcement agencies would act and prosecute as appropriate. But honestly, 5 recorded acts between Feb and November 2011, which the Avon & Somerset Police belive is not connected to Ashton Vale is paper thin and does not justify the way in which that news article was presented. By all means ivestigate but do not report innuendo and cast aspertions based on here-say rather than fact, but as I said before the BBC stopped reporting that way a long time ago.

[II Wurzel II]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...est_25_05_2012/

Forward it to 3:10 for the OTIB highlights, theres more coverage on here than we get on the football league show

Matt H commented about placing mines, BCR replyed "it was to clean and use Bamboo pits", then CotwoldRed added "Nuke the surrunding Streets"

FFS, can't believe they even put that on there, dated 10th March 2011

[Stephen Lewis]

Are they not just still trying to lay the blame for the JR withdrawal onto threats from city fans ?

[Kid in the Riot]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...est_25_05_2012/

Forward it to 3:10 for the OTIB highlights, theres more coverage on here than we get on the football league show

Matt H commented about placing mines, BCR replyed "it was to clean and use Bamboo pits", then CotwoldRed added "Nuke the surrunding Streets"

FFS, can't believe they even put that on there, dated 10th March 2011

Unbelievable!

That objectors last comment was 'the police weren't called because we feared further attacks'. Isn't that exactly when you DO call the police? Absolute f*cking numpty

[II Wurzel II]

Todays Evening Post : http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/story-16193537-detail/story.html

Oh Dear !!

[REBS14]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...est_25_05_2012/

Forward it to 3:10 for the OTIB highlights, theres more coverage on here than we get on the football league show

Matt H commented about placing mines, BCR replyed "it was to clean and use Bamboo pits", then CotwoldRed added "Nuke the surrunding Streets"

FFS, can't believe they even put that on there, dated 10th March 2011

After listening to the above linked report from points west i find myself in a complete state of amazement at what can only be described as such a one sided attack on everyone associated with BCFC.

Disgraceful reporting but of course i am going to say that due to my love of city but not once was there any counter evidence falling on our side.

Totally and completley constructed to make us look like a bunch of yobs - any fence sitters after seeing this will have built up a totally difference picture.

The reconstruction of the local who " feared for his life" and "who has become distant from his friends and relatives " HA HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH what a complete load of total pre-written crap, should have been at Calne film festival !!

whos to say it was the Nimbys who smashed their own car windows, cost of a car window, small price to pay, it could have been anyone allegedly carrying out these threats etc..

I have to say i did laugh when i saw some avatars, Barr Court, Monkeh, jordan tansley - dangerous game to play, everything said about pits and snipers is complete tounge in cheek but those sly reporters have very cleverly put together and made OTIB and BCFC look very bad - is there not anything we can do, any dirt or stones we can unturn - if they want to play dirty then we have to roll our sleeves up to !!!

[Kermit the Frog]

Just watched Points West on the iPlayer - I am absolutly fuming! furthermore i still haven't heard back from my complaint and i find it quite offensive that this blame culture is being pin pointed on the football club and its fans. I dont want to be called a vandal or criminal when i declare myself as a city fan in the same way that not all Liverpool fans are racists. The beeb really need to sort this out and I for one will help fight every step of the way if need be.

False accusations with lack of evidence. Get a grip

[screech]

This piece of work from the BBC is right up there with The Sunday Sports World War 2 bomber found on the moon story. It seems that tabloid journalism has arrived at the Beeb.

Look out for more shockers like BRISTOL CITY'S STEVE LANSDOWN HITS OLD LADY, yesterday a man who is believed to have been friends with Steve Lansdown 20 years ago went through a red light and brushed an elderly lady with his bumper, an ambulance was called but the lady was back on her feet within a short while. Mr Lansdown yesterday refused to make any comment regarding the accident.

[REBS14]

Todays Evening Post : http://www.thisisbri...tail/story.html

Oh Dear !!

Oh Dear indeed - this country excells in printing absolute b-----x, the sad truth of the matter is , people believe things that are written in the paper regardless of if its fabricated or not !! a large proportion of this country have evolved into lemmings, it has to be true the papers say so - this report and others like it are propaganda. another reason why Bristol is in the shadow of many other citys

I urge everyone to read this report and watch the points west circus on line - but please do this when you are sober

[SuperRed]

Good to see Bristol media is doing its best to keep Bristol a second-rate city by publishing rubbish like this with a clear agenda in mind. Five reports of criminal damage in the area last year and some tongue-in-cheek comments taken off an internet forum, and they claim to have undertaken an investigation, what an embarrassment.

[Stephen Lewis]

I'm afraid we're being taken for mugs.

[Barrs Court Red]

A indication of which way the wind is blowing methinks

[CiderJar]

Bristol Evening Post in copying BBC report word for word shocker!

[Kermit the Frog]

Bristol Evening Post in copying BBC report word for word shocker!

Exactly my thoughts! The football club NEEDS to have an input on this. I wonder what 'references' these journalists have. Well Evil Pest would cite BBC but what the hell would their reporter say?

[beaverface]

I don't know much about this kind of thing, but can't the people who run OTIB class all the threads/discussions on here as intellectual property rights and stop the BBC from using quotes without permission from OTIB?

[Danny P]

Knowing how desperate the nimbys are to stop the new stadium, has nobody else ever thought that these so called attacks could actually be down to them as an attempt to make the club and it's fans look bad. No evidence found by the police at all???? I could walk outside my house at night, brick the car windscreen and be back inside in seconds unseen, these people are desperate to stop the development at all costs so to me this seems very possible!

[Stephen Lewis]

I think it's occurred to us all, but what do you do about it ?

[Former Pirate]

Wow.

That is an incredibly bad bit of 'journalism' from the BBC.

Unbelievable.

[Former Pirate]

I don't know much about this kind of thing, but can't the people who run OTIB class all the threads/discussions on here as intellectual property rights and stop the BBC from using quotes without permission from OTIB?

This is an interesting point. Since people have been criminally prosecuted for things written online, including that written on a forum, I imagine there is something somewhere in the T&C's of the forum saying that each view is that person's own and nothing to do with BCFC/OTIB; however that surely means they can't reproduce anything written here without at least quoting said forum member by username, as by definition the property rights are that person's?