England Vs Norway Match Thread

[Brizzle Jordan]

We're talking about Gerrard aren't we??

Alonso and Mascherano carried him.

Liverpools record over the last few years speaks for its self, poor.

Compared to the Liverpool sides of the past there actually very poor.

You carry on doting over him fella, I know what I see!

Liverpool players carried Gerrard?

Gerrard has carried that Liverpool team on many occasions, he only managed to carry them to the Champions League..

[Portland Bill]

Liverpool players carried Gerrard?

Gerrard has carried that Liverpool team on many occasions, he only managed to carry them to the Champions League..

Really?? He won it on his own did he.

I must have missed that one.

I've been out tonight, just watching the England game, he is an embarrassment.

From 22 mins to 42 mins he's given the ball away 5 times and nearly broke someone's ankle.

[Brizzle Jordan]

Really?? He won it on his own did he.

I must have missed that one.

I've been out tonight, just watching the England game, he is an embarrassment.

From 22 mins to 42 mins he's given the ball away 5 times and nearly broke someone's ankle.

Nearly broke someones ankle? It was a good tackle and would have been a fantastic tackle a few years back. He won the ball = good tackle.

[Portland Bill]

Nearly broke someones ankle? It was a good tackle and would have been a fantastic tackle a few years back. He won the ball = good tackle.

You have just proved you don't know the game.

It was an over the top tackle and he wasnt in control.

In case you didnt notice it was tonight not a few years ago

If that tackle was on HIM there would be uproar.

Honestly, I just give up.

[Brizzle Jordan]

You have just proved you don't know the game.

It was an over the top tackle and he wasnt in control.

In case you didnt notice it was tonight not a few years ago

If that tackle was on HIM there would be uproar.

Honestly, I just give up.

How was the tackle over the top?! It was a honest tackle where he won the ball. Christ. Steven Gerrard has been at the top of the game for years. now, I know he isn't amazing for England but he's our best centre midfielder. If Roy or any manager was to drop him there would be uproar.

[Judge Roughneck]

Gerrard hardly ever does the simple but effective and while, often, his more elaborate passes (along with his shots of a similar type) do succeed, most will not come off and will put too much pressure on his team-mates.

The reason he gets away with this is that Liverpool teams have been built around him, the cult of Stevie G is omnipresent and he is often seen in sympathetically edited highlights programmes.

A lot of his balls are unreadable and unexpected but, unfortunately, often to his team-mates. The reason why Bellamy is so good playing with him is due to Bellamy's ability to run onto wayward balls, he is used to not having the ball played to his feet. However, relying on players with enough speed to chase after your balls is not great because not everyone is as fast as Bellamy (or, even though he is slowing, used to chasing those balls)

Now take Kuyt, he grew up receiving well-paced, well-directed passes from somewhere near him that rather than trying to control what are effectively shots. Many excellent players would find it difficult controlling Gerrard's passes. Ashley Cole often has trouble in controlling them for England and I don't think that we are going to slag off Cole's technique and ability to run after a ball. Crouch does well because, contrary to the view that he is really good at trapping the ball, his legs are so long that they can trap a ball within 6 foot around him like a lizard's tongue

When one of Gerrard's passes doesn't come off, he blames the other player and, as he is Stevie G, so does everyone else. If he played in any decent team in the world, they would shouting at him to keep the ******* ball down and play the first simple pass.

[Judge Roughneck]

Liverpool players carried Gerrard?

Gerrard has carried that Liverpool team on many occasions, he only managed to carry them to the Champions League..

You will find that Didi Hamann carried them to that comeback against Milan.

[BCFC Jordan]

You have just proved you don't know the game.

It was an over the top tackle and he wasnt in control.

In case you didnt notice it was tonight not a few years ago

If that tackle was on HIM there would be uproar.

Honestly, I just give up.

There was not a single thing wrong with the tackle,

Gerrard is still a great player even at his current age, unlike other elder players we have like Terry, Ferdinand and Lampard. He's been an inspirational captain for Liverpool on many occasions and I wouldn't want anybody else as England captain (I would opt for Hart, but I'm not a fan of having a goalkeeper as captain). It's a shame Wilshere isn't fit as I think a central partnership of him and Gerrard would have been fantastic, for now I'll settle for Parker/Gerrard as long as it's not bloody Gareth Barry!

Noticing a few Hodgson critics around already. I did warn everyone on here when he was appointed but got slated for it!

[Southport Red]

But it is about Gerrard keeping the ball, that's the idea of the game.....

His options are usually 5-10 yards away from him, but he wants to bang the ball 60-70 yards.

It's no coincidence that Liverpool and England's midfield has been poor for years.

Even Liverpool fans are now saying there a better footballing side when he doesn't play.

Sorry Bill, I have a lot of time for you and for your posts, BUT..

As an exile of 30 years standing doing patient 'missionary' work up here in Scouseland, let me say that I have yet to meet a single Liverpool fan who thinks of Gerrard in any way except that of driving force, leader and talisman.

Why he doesn't do it for England I don't know, but the idea that Liverpool fans would rather he wasn't in their team, is a complete non starter for me ( and I have been here a LONG time).

Changing the subject a little. Everyone on here knocking Gerrard, let me ask you ths. What would WE give to have a player of his quality who was born and bred in Bedminster, who, was that good and who played for City only throughout his career.

I'm not saying Gerrard is a deity, he is, ( like many of us) a deeply flawed human being, but the idea that his club fans think they would be better off without him has, IMHO, little merit and I, for one, wish to god he ad been born in Hotwells instead of Huyton.

[Portland Bill]

Sorry Bill, I have a lot of time for you and for your posts, BUT..

As an exile of 30 years standing doing patient 'missionary' work up here in Scouseland, let me say that I have yet to meet a single Liverpool fan who thinks of Gerrard in any way except that of driving force, leader and talisman.

Why he doesn't do it for England I don't know, but the idea that Liverpool fans would rather he wasn't in their team, is a complete non starter for me ( and I have been here a LONG time).

Changing the subject a little. Everyone on here knocking Gerrard, let me ask you ths. What would WE give to have a player of his quality who was born and bred in Bedminster, who, was that good and who played for City only throughout his career.

I'm not saying Gerrard is a deity, he is, ( like many of us) a deeply flawed human being, but the idea that his club fans think they would be better off without him has, IMHO, little merit and I, for one, wish to god he ad been born in Hotwells instead of Huyton.

Thats fair comment from you, living up there you obviously know how the "real" Liverpool support feel. I can only go on what the "plastic" fans down here are saying.

IMO Gerrard us not an international player, he's decent on a cold Tuesday night at Anfield but he just can't grasp that in International football it's all about patience and ball retention.

We didn't even qualify for Euro 2008, then we totally failed in WC2010, how long do we continue playing him.

All I want is a manager/coach to have the balls to tell him to "just play it simple".

[Ciderhead433]

Is anyone going to watch this shower of shit in the Euros.

Yes i shall go to the pub full of confidence.

[Southport Red]

Thats fair comment from you, living up there you obviously know how the "real" Liverpool support feel. I can only go on what the "plastic" fans down here are saying.

IMO Gerrard us not an international player, he's decent on a cold Tuesday night at Anfield but he just can't grasp that in International football it's all about patience and ball retention.

We didn't even qualify for Euro 2008, then we totally failed in WC2010, how long do we continue playing him.

All I want is a manager/coach to have the balls to tell him to "just play it simple".

Worrying thing Bill is that, you may be 100% spot on about him but he is still amongst the best we have. The influx of foreign superstars into the Premier League is surely good for the PL but it is surely stunting the development of players we need to replace the likes of Gerrard. I mean, we are going into the Euro's with a Third choice goalie who is 19 yo and has only played for Cheltenham.

Gerrard may not be International class any more but we don't exactly have a line of players better than him lining up to take his spot. If Gerrard gets injured, who have we got? Lampard? Parker? Barry? Until Wilshere gets fit ( and assuming he doesn't 'do an Owen' ie come back as a shadow of his former self), Gerrard is, I fear, the best we have.

I'm not disagreeing with your point Bill but Stevie G is probs the best we have right now, and I think th PL is to blame

[bcfcbs20]

May I remind you of Oxlade-Chamberlain, Wilshere, Hart, Walker, Richards, Welbeck, Phil Jones, Powell, Gibbs and a few others. They all need to improve but they are all very talented young players.

They said the same about our current crop of shite 10-15 years ago. I very much doubt I will see a championship winning England team in my lifetime.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Nearly broke someones ankle? It was a good tackle and would have been a fantastic tackle a few years back. He won the ball = good tackle.

So all of the 4 TV pundits are wrong? and you are correct with your assumption about that tackle?, they all pretty much said that it was at minimum a yellow and in the prem could easily have been red, they all also agreed it was reckless and unnecessary.

But hey i'm sure you know best.

[Brizzle Jordan]

So all of the 4 TV pundits are wrong? and you are correct with your assumption about that tackle?, they all pretty much said that it was at minimum a yellow and in the prem could easily have been red, they all also agreed it was reckless and unnecessary.

But hey i'm sure you know best.

Like they all think Gerrard is world class and is worthy England captain but you disagree? Still you know best.

[wayne allisons tongues]

Work with 2 Liverpool fans and they aren't sure Gerard is best for the team. He came back from injury after Xmas and there league form dipped from when he came in. They reckon in one off cup games he's alright but can't do it enough now during a league season now. There examples 2 pens man city cup semi both legs and the derby in the league against everton, apart from that he has been pretty anonymous. Both these guys have season tickets for Anfield and I work in Salford so they travel across daily, so aren't armchair fans.

[Abraham Romanovich]

"Norway's expensive, I want to go home"

Apparently £8 for a half,.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Like they all think Gerrard is world class and is worthy England captain but you disagree? Still you know best.

They also think that Downing is worthy of his place in the squad, it's called the 'gravy train', as a pundit you can comment about individual incidents like Gerrards tackle, but do not criticise individual players personally, just blow copious amounts of smoke up their individual arses because they may refuse to tell us how far over the moon or how sick as a parrot they are feeling by refusing to give post match interviews, throughout the game that tosser Townsend was telling us how well Carroll was playing, don't get me wrong Carroll certainly works hard for the team especially tracking back and in defence, but how many saves did he force the Norway goalkeeper to make? and why was that?, because Downing and Milner were/are both totally incapable of getting the ball past the first defender, Gerrard kept giving the ball away, Young drifted in and out of the game and when he came Walcott morphed into SWP ran around very fast, giving the ball away and taking the wrong option, thankfully Oxlade-Chamberlain looks like a breath of fresh air.

[Judge Roughneck]

Gerrard may not be International class any more but we don't exactly have a line of players better than him lining up to take his spot. If Gerrard gets injured, who have we got? Lampard? Parker? Barry? Until Wilshere gets fit ( and assuming he doesn't 'do an Owen' ie come back as a shadow of his former self), Gerrard is, I fear, the best we have.

I'm not disagreeing with your point Bill but Stevie G is probs the best we have right now, and I think th PL is to blame

Liverpool supporters love Gerrards style and not so impressed with more prosaic yet more productive (over 90 minutes) footballers like Mcallister, Hamman and Lucas.

In Gerrards autobiography, he does mention his propensity to make hollywood passess and constantly give the ball away in persuit of glory. Macallister and Hammann would advise him to "keep it next time". He would of course roundly ignore them.

English players lack what is called a "football brain". They do not know when the hold onto the ball and retain possession or to take a risk by playing a through pass or attempt a dribble.

However Brendon Rogers, Roberto Martinez and especially Roy Hodgson have all proved that you can teach the average Englishman to use their brain instead of playing like a mindless automaton with the effect of transforming their game IF THEY ARE PREPARED TO LEARN.

Owen's game was based on outsprinting turning defenders, once his hamstring went for the second and third time he was always going to be ineffectual. Wilshere's game isn't reliant on pace.

I'm not sure Gerrard is the best. Look at the goals that Lampard created for chelsea against barcelona. The only time Gerrard has played through balls like that at International level was when putting Thierry Henry through in 2004. But your point is right. If after all these years of failing at International level, those two are still the best option available then England fans had better get used to regular non qualification, or first round embarrassment.

[chipdawg]

I'm not entirely sure what all the pissing and moaning here is about. We've not been a top team for years and will not become one before Euro2012. People seem to be complaining that we're being boring and then complaining that we can't keep the ball and play it simple- in the same post. Not mutually exclusive things but we can't have it all. Hodgson is hamstrung by the squads his predecessor picked and by te fact that most of the young players he might wanted to take are injured. It's an English pastime to try and knock our players and manager incessantly, but it was a friendly played by the 2nd string of what is nowhere near a full strength squad and we all the records will say is that we won 1-0. Improvement needed but improvement may yet come

[Brizzle Jordan]

They also think that Downing is worthy of his place in the squad, it's called the 'gravy train', as a pundit you can comment about individual incidents like Gerrards tackle, but do not criticise individual players personally, just blow copious amounts of smoke up their individual arses because they may refuse to tell us how far over the moon or how sick as a parrot they are feeling by refusing to give post match interviews, throughout the game that tosser Townsend was telling us how well Carroll was playing, don't get me wrong Carroll certainly works hard for the team especially tracking back and in defence, but how many saves did he force the Norway goalkeeper to make? and why was that?, because Downing and Milner were/are both totally incapable of getting the ball past the first defender, Gerrard kept giving the ball away, Young drifted in and out of the game and when he came Walcott morphed into SWP ran around very fast, giving the ball away and taking the wrong option, thankfully Oxlade-Chamberlain looks like a breath of fresh air.

Oxlade-Chamberlain should start against France imo. He's 18 and better than Walcott already because he can pass, shoot and has a brain.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I'm not entirely sure what all the pissing and moaning here is about. We've not been a top team for years and will not become one before Euro2012. People seem to be complaining that we're being boring and then complaining that we can't keep the ball and play it simple- in the same post. Not mutually exclusive things but we can't have it all. Hodgson is hamstrung by the squads his predecessor picked and by te fact that most of the young players he might wanted to take are injured. It's an English pastime to try and knock our players and manager incessantly, but it was a friendly played by the 2nd string of what is nowhere near a full strength squad and we all the records will say is that we won 1-0. Improvement needed but improvement may yet come

You make good valid points, our problem is when compared to the best european international teams, their coaches seem able to mould far better technically gifted individuals into a 'team' England have for far too long played as individuals, I cannot remember the last time we looked like a 'team' and not just a collection of individuals and until the coach can actually crack that particular nut and mould the England squad into a 'team' the longer we will stutter along in the manner that we have for probably the past 20 years.

if the players of the best teams in europe can leave their respective egos on the team coach, why can't we?.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

double post

[Taylor10]

You make good valid points, our problem is when compared to the best european international teams, their coaches seem able to mould far better technically gifted individuals into a 'team' England have for far too long played as individuals, I cannot remember the last time we looked like a 'team' and not just a collection of individuals and until the coach can actually crack that particular nut and mould the England squad into a 'team' the longer we will stutter along in the manner that we have for probably the past 20 years.

if the players of the best teams in europe can leave their respective egos on the team coach, why can't we?.

Maybe Roy is the man to change that? Who knows?

Regardless of the performance last night, it was a bit of a pointless friendly given that we all knew so many would be missing. He has been with the squad a matter of days with the squad. As you rightly say, no manager has been able to mould a team out of our players over what 20 years? Well then to do so I think Roy is going to need more than three days. He has a lot of work to do.

[chipdawg]

You make good valid points, our problem is when compared to the best european international teams, their coaches seem able to mould far better technically gifted individuals into a 'team' England have for far too long played as individuals, I cannot remember the last time we looked like a 'team' and not just a collection of individuals and until the coach can actually crack that particular nut and mould the England squad into a 'team' the longer we will stutter along in the manner that we have for probably the past 20 years.

if the players of the best teams in europe can leave their respective egos on the team coach, why can't we?.

I think perhaps there are a number of 'cultural' reasons why we don't produce the technically gifted players, though I do think that's changing. As unpopular as it may be, the main beneficiary of the new academy system may be the English national team as the best young players get the best coaching from an earlier age. I am quite excited about the young players coming through at the top level now as not only do some of them appear very talented, they seem to regard themselves as athletes first, celebrities second; something that the Terrys, Ferdinands, Gerrards don't seem to. Oxlade-Chamberlain is the one I really rate, seems a sensible, intelligent lad too. Rodwell, Wilshere, Jones & Smalling all also seem to be quite sensible chaps and I really rate Sturidge though he does perhaps need an attitude adjustment.

At the end of the day a lot of the players in the England set up deserve criticism, but it seems utterly redundant to say "we have a shit squad" and then criticise them for being shit. England are in transition right now and we just have to hope that the next golden generation is better than the last

[Judge Roughneck]

As you rightly say, no manager has been able to mould a team out of our players over what 20 years?

42

[Carey 6]

Mediocre is one word to sum England up. 6 players from a team that finished 8th in the Prem last season.

[BCFC Jordan]

So all of the 4 TV pundits are wrong? and you are correct with your assumption about that tackle?, they all pretty much said that it was at minimum a yellow and in the prem could easily have been red, they all also agreed it was reckless and unnecessary.

But hey i'm sure you know best.

I'm not sure if you were aware, but it was ITV!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I'm not sure if you were aware, but it was ITV!

yes of course how silly Peter Reid, Gareth Southgate, Roy Keane and Andy Townsend have never played the game at international, european or Premier League level have they?, WTF would they know?, where as you on the other hand?.

[Brizzle Jordan]

Which of these youngsters do we think will actually go on to become international stars: All are 22 and under.

Goalkeepers:

Jack Butland - Birmingham - 19

Jamal Blackman - Chelsea - 18

Right Backs:

Nathaniel Clyne - Crystal Palace - 21

Kyle Walker - Tottenham - 21

Jon Flanagan - Liverpool - 19

Martin Kelly - Liverpool - 22

Jamal Lascelles - Nottingham Forest - 18

Left Backs:

Joe Bennett - Middlesbrough - 22

Jack Robinson - Liverpool - 18

Luke Shaw - Southampton - 16

Keiran Gibbs - Arsenal - 22

Centre Backs:

Phil Jones - Manchester United - 20

Chris Smalling - Manchester United - 22

Steven Caulker - Tottenham Hotspur - 20

Ryan Bennett - Norwich - 22

Craig Dawson - West Brom - 22

Lewis Dunk - Brighton - 20

Eric Dier - 18 - Sporting Lisbon

Nathaniel Chalobah - Chelsea - 17

Centre Midfielders:

Jordan Henderson - Liverpool - 22

Tom Cleverley - Manchester United - 22

Jack Rodwell - Everton - 21

Jack Wilshere - Arsenal - 20

Henri Lansbury - Arsenal - 21

Josh McEachran - Chelsea - 19

Jonjo Shelvey - Liverpool - 20

George Thorne - West Brom - 19

Ross Barkley - Everton - 18

Jacon Butterfield - Barnsley - 21

Tom Carroll - Tottenham - 19

Jordon Mutch - Birmingham - 20

Dan Gosling - Newcastle - 22

Ravel Morrison - West Ham - 19

Wingers:

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain - Arsenal - 18

Wilfried Zaha - Crystal Palace - 19

Cameron Stewart - Hull - 21

Nathan Redmond - Birmingham - 18

Strikers:

Danny Welbeck - Manchester United - 21

Daniel Sturridge - Chelsea - 22

Connor Wickham - Sunderland - 19

Nick Powell - Crewe - 18

Harry Kane - Tottenham - 18

Max Clayton - Crewe - 17

Raheem Stirling - Liverpool - 17