bearded_red Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 I think it is unfair to accuse us of 'parking the bus' or comparing us to Chelsea in the Barcelona games. Sure we let France have the majority of possession in areas that weren't going to hurt us, but it was hardly 'parking the bus'. We closed them down and pressurised the ball as high up the pitch as we could. The only time we sat back and invited them on to us was in between us scoring and half time. This is something England have regualarly done over the years and would be something that Hodgson will look to eradicate I would have thought. If we had continued playing as we had at 0-0 when we were 1-0 we would probably have gone into half time in the lead in my opinion. I don't think I've ever seen a team as desperate for half time as we were yesterday! All in all I thought we played well and it clearly something to build on. I thought the two centre halves and the two central midfielders were both excellent and we do look to have a spine of the team that we can build around. I was also pleasently surprised by Welbeck, he led the line in a way I didn't know he could to be honest. Holding up the ball well, always making a run for the man in possession (had we shown a bit more composure we could have played him through a couple of times) and generally being a pest for Rami and Mexes. Ashley Cole also had his best England game in a long time in my opinion, possibly since the Portugal game in Euro 2004. The big test for England will come in the next two games where we will have to offer more of an attacking threat, rather than looking to play on the counter as we did yesterday. Whether we have enough players in the team with the quality and ability to break down Sweden and Ukraine, who will be largely defensive I would have thought, remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 To be fair, I think I'm perhaps placing too much significance on chances we should have created rather than ones we actually did. We had the best chance of the game though and it was one from which we didn't score Perhaps it's the optimist v the pessimist. I saw reasons for hope amongst the limitations, you see limitations shrouding the reasons for hope. I personally think there has been an upwards curve in the quality of the retention and use of the ball an in the way we've defended from Roys first friendly to last nights game. If that curve continues against a less threatening team (only Ibrahimavic should really hurt us) and we play with a little more positivity w should win. A for the Ukraine, there was a lot of vim and vigour in the way that attacked, but there was a big gap between midfield and defence and the defence to me looked shaky I agree with everything you say but in both cases/games, for me I cannot see us scoring goals and the worst case scenario I can envisage is the Ukraine game being winner goes through, they will be at home partisan crowd, players diving and play acting as if shot by Russian snipers and we will have Rooney who has been caged for 2 games, it's a recipe for disaster IMO. But if you want to know what is really pissing me off. I have just tiled a bathroom 23 sq metres of large white tiles that have a slight profile or so Lee Johnson told me, but it's not it's a horrible line of adhesive, full tiles have 2 of these lines and I have to clean every single tile and i'm going snow blind, that Lee Johnson has got so much to answer for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 I agree with everything you say but in both cases/games, for me I cannot see us scoring goals and the worst case scenario I can envisage is the Ukraine game being winner goes through, they will be at home partisan crowd, players diving and play acting as if shot by Russian snipers and we will have Rooney who has been caged for 2 games, it's a recipe for disaster IMO. But if you want to know what is really pissing me off. I have just tiled a bathroom 23 sq metres of large white tiles that have a slight profile or so Lee Johnson told me, but it's not it's a horrible line of adhesive, full tiles have 2 of these lines and I have to clean every single tile and i'm going snow blind, that Lee Johnson has got so much to answer for. I've always said that Lee Johnson knows 2 things; tiling bathrooms and shirking 50-50s I do feel your pain; retuned my bathroom last year and very sensibly mixed the boxes to ensure a good spread. Unfortunately one box of tiles had blobs of glue on them and it's not that easy to spot on a marbled-effect white/grey tile.... Cue me having to go round and run my hand over every inch of every tile and scrub off te glue. That time it was Martyn Woolford's fault though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 I've always said that Lee Johnson knows 2 things; tiling bathrooms and shirking 50-50s I do feel your pain; retuned my bathroom last year and very sensibly mixed the boxes to ensure a good spread. Unfortunately one box of tiles had blobs of glue on them and it's not that easy to spot on a marbled-effect white/grey tile.... Cue me having to go round and run my hand over every inch of every tile and scrub off te glue. That time it was Martyn Woolford's fault though... Yeah and i've got ultra man flu, whilst my wife has got some sort of sniffle or other, so as usual guess whose doing all the graft, FFS she's only got the cleaning, cooking, washing up, washing the dishes, gardening, cleaning my car, changing the channel when the next game starts, making sure i've got a beer or other beverage to hand, checking my bath water temperature, taking the dogs for a walk, feeding the dogs and the cat..........................and it's not as if I ask her to wipe my arse, well not whilst she is ill anyway, can't stand vomit. in fact thinking about it Lee Johnson gave me the ultra man flu whilst giving me the tile advice, that pesky Lee Johnson, one day, one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Yeah and i've got ultra man flu, whilst my wife has got some sort of sniffle or other, so as usual guess whose doing all the graft, FFS she's only got the cleaning, cooking, washing up, washing the dishes, gardening, cleaning my car, changing the channel when the next game starts, making sure i've got a beer or other beverage to hand, checking my bath water temperature, taking the dogs for a walk, feeding the dogs and the cat..........................and it's not as if I ask her to wipe my arse, well not whilst she is ill anyway, can't stand vomit. in fact thinking about it Lee Johnson gave me the ultra man flu whilst giving me the tile advice, that pesky Lee Johnson, one day, one day. The problem is, you're too good to her Make her spend a weekend with Little Lee; that'll teach her to appreciate you a bit more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 The problem is, you're too good to her Make her spend a weekend with Little Lee; that'll teach her to appreciate you a bit more Do you know what?, you are absolutely right in fact her younger sister was only telling me that in bed the other day. Thanks mate, it's all so clear to me now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kaiser Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Yes, poor. I keep hearing about this unbeaten run, but 11 of those games were friendlies and the competitive ones were against some rather weak sides. France didn't actually apply any real pressure despite being gifted possession for pretty much the whole game. It wasn't "resolute organised defending", it was park the bus stuff coupled with an inability to pass. An attack of Benzema, Nasri, Ribery with Malouda supporting it is poor??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 An attack of Benzema, Nasri, Ribery with Malouda supporting it is poor??? Looked pretty poor last night, and they were 2nd lowest goalscorers in qualifying. Good players on paper! Not quite so good as people make out. That is about the 10th time I have seen Ribery, he is massively overated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Looked pretty poor last night, and they were 2nd lowest goalscorers in qualifying. Good players on paper! Not quite so good as people make out. That is about the 10th time I have seen Ribery, he is massively overated. i'm surprised Giroud didn't play he has been on fire this last season and appears Arsenal bound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kaiser Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 I thought they were a lot better than what we have? I'm happy with the result. I think the French are a good side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 I thought they were a lot better than what we have? I'm happy with the result. I think the French are a good side. I think the French are like Holland, the media keep telling us how good they are and their recent record suggests the same, but traveling fans have a different perspective and that is "we are not as good as you all think we are". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Yes, poor. I keep hearing about this unbeaten run, but 11 of those games were friendlies and the competitive ones were against some rather weak sides. France didn't actually apply any real pressure despite being gifted possession for pretty much the whole game. It wasn't "resolute organised defending", it was park the bus stuff coupled with an inability to pass. Nasri, Ribery either side of Benzema is not a poor frontline I'd say. That said France have definite issues at the back and we could perhaps have exploited those a bit better at times (though Debuchy looked quite good). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Nasri, Ribery either side of Benzema is not a poor frontline I'd say. That said France have definite issues at the back and we could perhaps have exploited those a bit better at times (though Debuchy looked quite good). But look at theri conversion rate in theri 21 match unbeaten run. If that fronline and midfield were all that, they should be scoring a whole lot more. It's all good and well having the approach play, but no end product.... yes we can argue that they are unbeaten, but they didn't gloriously qualify from their qite easy group, and really struggled to lay down theri marker as a great attacking side. They were the 2nd lowest goal scorers in Qualifying with 14 goals. They are massively overated because of theri unbeaten run. I personally think they will struggle to get out of the group, like I said way before the competition began, I see France as potentially the weakest team in the group, depending on their mental state. Misfiring against a average England side will not now of helped. If they draw or lose to Ukraine, they are in the brown stuff, and liable to implode again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Bang on. And people talking about needing to 'attack more' and concerned over what yesterday's performance going forward meant are, for me, missing the point a little (not being aggressive saying this btw). In each of the games so far we've set up to counter the opponents in front of us, the focus being to nullifying the threats posed first and foremost. Unlike under previous, more attack-focused managers (here's looking at you Keegan) we don't go into matches thinking that imposing our game on opponents will be enough, we identify the problems we might face and work up from that baseline. It isn't a natural fit for English players/fans, but look at sides like Italy and, to an extent, most successful smaller nations (Denmark and Greece are prime examples) to see how it can help groups of maybe less talented/extraordinary players go toe-to-toe with the big guns. Odd thing, but Italy was always a weird one- they had some fantastic attacking players yet approached tournaments in a pretty defensive manner for much of the time. Off the top of my head, creators e.g. Baggio, Zola and the like, then finishers like Vieri, Del Piero (who was also skilful), Inzaghi who was limited technically but knew how to score, Totti was either a false 9 or a striker but he could do a job. Montella was no mug either. Zambrotta, Maldini and others were attacking full backs yet they insisted on bunker like defence for years. Agree on the general point though, it's the way we should go for the forseeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 That is about the 10th time I have seen Ribery, he is massively overated. He's a tidy player but got worked out years ago, keep him out wide and he's ineffective, let him cut inside and you've got problems. Thought England stifled France really well. I thought it was an effective performence shall we say. As long as we don't employ the exact same tactics against he Swedes and Ukraine i think we can certainly get out of the group. Knowing that we can defend deep and effectively for long periods is a good thing surely, as long as its employed in the right manor and the right time, its a useful tactic to be able to play, certainly some sides in the tournament wont be able to defend so resolutely and there are bound to be moments in games where you need to shut up shop for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 An attack of Benzema, Nasri, Ribery with Malouda supporting it is poor??? For France? Yes. Ribery and Malouda aren't anything to write home about. Nasri's great, fair enough and Benzema is decent. Consider that they had something like 65% of the possession, how many chances did this wonderful attacking line up actually create? Neither of those two teams looked like they might do more than scrape it out of the group to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Most of those incidents were in incredibly non dangerous positions and a couple in our own half, I can only recall one in dangerous position (the foul on Gerrard in the 1st half) but you have inadvertently thrown up up another problem, England's free kicks are about as good as BCFC's and again in a counter attacking team you need a dead ball specialist. Except of course the one we scored from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Except of course the one we scored from... of course but I wonder had the goal had been at the other end would we be crowing about great delivery or appalling marking. We will be far wiser in a weeks time, the France game has really taught us little we didn't already know (other than the result was better than many, me included expected) in fact it has thrown up more questions than answers. The midfield will have to be far better and Young needs to stay on his feet and get involved more and we have to create chances, because undoubtedly Sweden will create chances and probably won't miss the amount they did yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 All very true. At times it seemed to me that I was back in the Dolman watching the sort of City-esque perfomance witnessed all too frequently last year. Why couldn't I have been born Brazilian? If you were Brazilian you wouldnt have seen your country win a game for over a year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 If you were Brazilian you wouldnt have seen your country win a game for over a year... yeah but you would be smooth and what a carnival Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 yeah but you would be smooth and what a carnival But you'd also probably drink Skol on a regular basis and enjoy women with comically large backsides wearing thongs Nationality is very much a give and take kind of thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 But you'd also probably drink Skol on a regular basis and enjoy women with comically large backsides wearing thongs Nationality is very much a give and take kind of thing Woosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 yeah but you would be smooth and what a carnival What a carnival!!!!!! Theres one one carnival that matters BRIDGWATER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridge Batch Red Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 I thought we did ok yesterday. We had the majority of procession and played some nice passing football. Great goal from the man city fellah. I just can't get used to these blue england away kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 I thought we did ok yesterday. We had the majority of procession and played some nice passing football. Great goal from the man city fellah. I just can't get used to these blue england away kits. I'm almost wondering if you realise we were the team in white yesterday? 30% possession in the last 15 minutes and definitely not the majority at any point. Agreed though, away kit should be red in my eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 For France? Yes. Ribery and Malouda aren't anything to write home about. Nasri's great, fair enough and Benzema is decent. Consider that they had something like 65% of the possession, how many chances did this wonderful attacking line up actually create? Neither of those two teams looked like they might do more than scrape it out of the group to me. Agrtee on Nasri, think Benzema's a bit better than decent- agree on Malouda, he's not quite as good as he was a few years back, Ben Arfa may have been a more dynamic choice to support but don't agree at all on Ribery- do players start often for a side as big as Bayern if they're poor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 We have tried to be bold for tournement after tournement, we can't play that way and expect to beat the top teams, it's a fact, our record proves that. When are people going to accept it. if that was bold in the previous tournaments then I'd hate to see defensive. We've not been bold since Gasgoine played for us! We're all about defending and stealing a goal, against Sweden when we pushed we actually looked like an International team, not a team afraid to play. I don't think we need to accept negativity, we need to start growing a set and stop being so damn afraid to lose that we never actually push it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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