Tour De France 2012

[marshy]

Eskay wrote;

''That was an awesome ride by both Froome and Wiggins. It really piles the pressure on Evans, it sets up the forthcoming mountain stages quite nicely. Evans has no choice but to attack Wiggins as much as possible. Bradley must be very reassured though having Froome as his wing man, he looks like he could be a real contender for a podium position and he is someone who you would want shepherding you up the mountains.

Evans has to hope that some of the other podium contenders work together to break Froome/Wiggins but I don't fancy their chances. With another reasonable time trial on the penultimate stage Evans has to work some serious time in Bradley in the mountains.

Having said that anything can happen in the mountains (even on a flat stage!). All it needs is Wiggins to have a bad day and Evans to feel good, Sky must be very happy though as if Bradley does have a bad day they could push Froome on and he could emerge as a real contender for the overall GC.''

Let's hope this doesn't happen but I seem to remember a similar situation some years ago with, I think, Riis and Ullrich. The decision the team has to make is at what point does the second string stop going back to help the leader so that he can be set free to go on and challenge in his own right. Froome is a great climber and would be a lot closer but for the one minute something he lost owing to an accident on one of the early stages.

[Antman]

I think Brailsford has got the 'team ethic' well and truly running through the squad - it's a great position to have someone like Froome in reserve, as it were.

in his interviews Froome comes across as a very solid and dependable guy - whereas Wiggins has the flash of arrogance about him (which TBH is fair enough)

IF Bradley falters, I don't doubt TeamSky will swap the position of leader over to young Froome. after all, they left poor old Cav entirely without support after the big crash the other day in order to push Wiggo and Froome up the GC, normally Cav would have had two or three domestiques fall back to pace him back up, but even as world champion he didn't get that, which means old Sean Yates in the car is making the tough calls needed. In fact Brailsford praised Yates after that call - so they all know tough decisions will be made if needed.

I can't see any competition developing UNLESS bradley falls off the pace and gets grumpy.

[Rob k]

Agree with all of the above and as much as I love footie (not as much as cycling though) it's laughable the way the footie prima donnas roll around "in agony" after a little bump, compared to riders with broken bones, stiches, strains and sprains and big road rashes just trying to get to the stage finish so they can start the next day.

The amount of training these guys put in is unbelievable. Fantastic sport and probably the toughest one there is.

"Chapeau" !

It's just a shame there is so much talk about drugs again, will we ever know if Armstrong is a drugs cheat or not? It's a story that just won't go away.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

It's just a shame there is so much talk about drugs again, will we ever know if Armstrong is a drugs cheat or not? It's a story that just won't go away.

Although it would appear that 6 ex-teammates/management team have grassed him up this time, in exchange for immunity from anything other than a out of season ban for their own admitted drug misdemeanours.

[Frenchay Red]

It's just a shame there is so much talk about drugs again, will we ever know if Armstrong is a drugs cheat or not? It's a story that just won't go away.

Virually all of the "drug talk" is in respect of events that took place years ago. Even the Cofidis rider implicated today is in connection with an older investigation.

It will be a terrible shame if Armstrong is a cheat. He has been an iconic inspiration for both cyclists and cancer suffers and he redefined the way the TDF had to be meticulously prepared for and ridden to ensure victory. I think the past should be left alone and the record books remain intact. If he cheated who will replace him? In the years he battled with Ullrich you can't give him the victories, he's already admitted taking EPO etc. If most of the peleton were on something then how can you possibly find, in retropsect and with certainty, a clean champion? You can't. So it's better left alone in my view. And how far back do you go? Indurain? Hinault? Merckx? And what is the point anyway? I'm not defending the practise, but if they were all doping, then they were still on a level playing field, albeit a performance enhanced one!

As for today I believe that virually all are clean. There may be the odd exception, but the average speeds for the peleton are down and the times taken to ascend the big climbs are down also. Cycling is the most tested sport there is and any one who tests positive immediately makes the headlines. I have no doubt that the problem is not exclusive to cycling. In fact I suspect that it is very widespead. If the same rigorous testing regime had been applied to all other sports there would, I suspect, be many many "champions" under suspicion for their past glories.

And if any of our lot at the 'Gate were on performance enhancing substances last season they should ask for their money back :-)

[eskay]

Let's hope this doesn't happen but I seem to remember a similar situation some years ago with, I think, Riis and Ullrich. The decision the team has to make is at what point does the second string stop going back to help the leader so that he can be set free to go on and challenge in his own right. Froome is a great climber and would be a lot closer but for the one minute something he lost owing to an accident on one of the early stages.

It was Riis/Ullrich, that year was the pinnacle of Ullrich's career, he promised so much but failed to go on to deliver (and was eventually stripped of that Tour win anyway!).

IF Bradley falters, I don't doubt TeamSky will swap the position of leader over to young Froome. after all, they left poor old Cav entirely without support after the big crash the other day in order to push Wiggo and Froome up the GC, normally Cav would have had two or three domestiques fall back to pace him back up, but even as world champion he didn't get that, which means old Sean Yates in the car is making the tough calls needed.

Spot on, the aim of every rider on that team this year is to help win the yellow jersey, Cav finds himslef in the unusual position of a utility rider and has to try to nick the odd win here or there pretty much single handed.

Although it would appear that 6 ex-teammates/management team have grassed him up this time, in exchange for immunity from anything other than a out of season ban for their own admitted drug misdemeanours.

People have been out to get Armstrong for years, I cannot believe that he would have taken anything after being so close to death (his first book is a great read).

Reading his countering law suit did highlight that these confessions could be suspect.

I would be very disappointed if the allegations were proven.

If most of the peleton were on something then how can you possibly find, in retropsect and with certainty, a clean champion? You can't. So it's better left alone in my view. And how far back do you go? Indurain? Hinault? Merckx? And what is the point anyway? I'm not defending the practise, but if they were all doping, then they were still on a level playing field, albeit a performance enhanced one!

As for today I believe that virually all are clean. There may be the odd exception, but the average speeds for the peleton are down and the times taken to ascend the big climbs are down also. Cycling is the most tested sport there is and any one who tests positive immediately makes the headlines. I have no doubt that the problem is not exclusive to cycling. In fact I suspect that it is very widespead. If the same rigorous testing regime had been applied to all other sports there would, I suspect, be many many "champions" under suspicion for their past glories.

In the early days of the tour cheating was part of it, fans/riders throwing down tacks to give other riders punctures, drinking alchohol etc, etc.

There will always be cheats and things have improved massivly since the Festina days. I think there is still doping going on but the cheats are having to become more and more cunning. With retrospective testing their past will eventually catch up with them (as new tests for detection are developed).

Anyway, lets hope for a great stage today!!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The problem is the Armstrong drugs stories have been around for years, with some riders and managers all giving vivid eye witness accounts, I don't think they have grassed him up because of jealousy or because they have now or previously been caught themselves, I think it is because they believe that he has got away with it and has just batted away the allegations, for me the fact that this latest action has been brought by the American authorities says it all, the yanks usually protect their sporting heroes from all sorts of allegations.

on a brighter note I love Tommy Voeckler he is a brave, never say die nice guy, glad he won. Bradders looks and sounds like a winner to me, although again tomorrow is the start of the proper mountain stages in the alps and Evans might be desperate enough to make a move not only to bring the time gap down but for his morale, bearing in mind there is another time trial to come it is going to become more and more difficult for him.

[Robbored]

on a brighter note I love Tommy Voeckler he is a brave, never say die nice guy, glad he won. Bradders looks and sounds like a winner to me, although again tomorrow is the start of the proper mountain stages in the alps and Evans might be desperate enough to make a move not only to bring the time gap down but for his morale, bearing in mind there is another time trial to come it is going to become more and more difficult for him.

Just saw interviewed ( in English) on ITV4. Came over as a decent bloke and how he described the last click was very amusing. The commentaters said this year he's a marked man because of the length of time he held the Yellow Jersey last year.

[Guest]

Tomorrow is a monster stage, Itv4 is on from midday..

[eskay]

Tomorrow is a monster stage, Itv4 is on from midday..

I love the ski station finishes, they always produced some iconic performances.

[Chris]

Massive, massive day today. It's the biggest climbing stage of the tour and I feel if they don't break Wiggins today then they won't. The mountain stages in the Pyrenees aren't as brutal as today. It should make for an exciting days racing anyway.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

WTF is Nibali's problem, he spent all last week rubbishing Bradders and today this?, the bloke is the one being disrespectful, knob head.

Nibali said: 'On the finish line, Bradley turned around and looked at me as if to say, "See that?" 'I waved back at him.

'If he wants to be a champion he needs to show his rivals a bit of respect.

'Turning and looking at someone like that is a bit of an insult. Yeah, Sky are going well at the moment, but the wheel of fortune can turn.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz20P2r5vSR

[Redhyde]

Yup he's been saying he doesn't respect Wiggins, now he wants Wiggins to respect him... Do as i say not as i do.

[RedZepperin]

Last year was my first real interest in the tour and I'm looking forward to this years. No doubt I'll have loads of novice questions same as last year.

I stumbled across the Tour while I was in Liege the other week. Then I heard that someone called Bradley Wiggins was winning it... I think I'm getting hooked as well!

[Chris]

WTF is Nibali's problem, he spent all last week rubbishing Bradders and today this?, the bloke is the one being disrespectful, knob head.

Nibali said: 'On the finish line, Bradley turned around and looked at me as if to say, "See that?" 'I waved back at him.

'If he wants to be a champion he needs to show his rivals a bit of respect.

'Turning and looking at someone like that is a bit of an insult. Yeah, Sky are going well at the moment, but the wheel of fortune can turn.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz20P2r5vSR

Our friend Mr. Nibali looks as though he is feeling the pressure and is trying mind games to destabilise the Sky camp. Let you legs do the talking Vincenzo....

[eskay]

Our friend Mr. Nibali looks as though he is feeling the pressure and is trying mind games to destabilise the Sky camp. Let you legs do the talking Vincenzo....

The mind games are a big part of bike racing, Wiggins knew exactly what he was doing and it did the trick. Hook, line and sinker!!!

[Guest]

Froome could have smashed this.. as it is unselfishly keeping Wiggins in. Evans is gone.. over a minute behind.

[Antman]

that looked painful, but lets not pretend, wiggins was on the rivet there. I think Froome did that burst to draw sting out of Nibali prior to the finish, that allowed brad to stick to him and not give any seconds.

the euro's hate a Brit being in the Maillot jaune

[Guest]

Sky are going to have a problem sooner or later. Maybe not this tour but next year BW will want to win it again (assuming he wins this year), Cav will want more of a train to lead him out on sprints and the likes of Froome will want to win it outright too.

One thing you can say, British cycling has never had it so good as it does right now.

[Robbored]

Froome could have smashed this.. as it is unselfishly keeping Wiggins in. Evans is gone.. over a minute behind.

He could but listened to a radio message from either Wiggins or the team manager ( or both) to curtail his attack. I'm not sure it was unselfish or he just responded to the order. If he had ignored the order it would have caused serious ruptions within the already small Team Sky.

[Antman]

my worry is that Brad looked on his limits, Nibali will dig again tomorrow, just how many times can the Sky boys race up the slopes to keep the attacks away? Froome said after todays stage 'that was fun' - i hope he was being ironic! makes me feel old as i spin up park street in my granny ring!

[Robbored]

my worry is that Brad looked on his limits, Nibali will dig again tomorrow, just how many times can the Sky boys race up the slopes to keep the attacks away? Froome said after todays stage 'that was fun' - i hope he was being ironic! makes me feel old as i spin up park street in my granny ring!

I thought the opposite. Wiggins wasn't out of the sadle half as much as his main rivals. He looked well within his limits and was pretty comfortable with Boassen-Hagen, Porte and Froome doing virtually all the team donkey work. I read somewhere that being sheltered by riders in front of you saves 30% in expended energy which makes Froome's performance even more remarkable.

Cadel Evans couldn't cope with the relentless steady pace dictated by Team Sky but Wiggins was comfortable with it.

[Frenchay Red]

Wiggins can climb with the best of them, though of course he isn't a true "grimpeur". Any losses to his main rivals will only be small as he rides in a controlled manner and does not (unlike Evans and Nibali) have to bury himself to gain time.

Even if he does end up conceding time in the Pyrenees, (as he has survived the Alps), his real strength is against the clock, and with another long TT stage on the penultimate day he should be ok, barring illness or accidents.

[Robbored]

Question for those who know about professional cycling - What kind of salary are team riders on? How does it compare with other sports such as football?

[Guest]

It was rumoured when Cav signed for Sky it was worth around £1.5m a year, putting him on a par with the likes of Wiggins.

[Antman]

Question for those who know about professional cycling - What kind of salary are team riders on? How does it compare with other sports such as football?

have a read of 'Riding through the dark' - millars book - it gives a good account of how tough life was for a youngster and how he started to earn good money when he won stuff - then blew it!

it gives a good picture of the lead riders being paid lots but juniors and lesser names not getting a great deal - many ride for race money on the northern european circuits when they can

[Antman]

i t

It was rumoured when Cav signed for Sky it was worth around £1.5m a year, putting him on a par with the likes of Wiggins.

i think thats a little high given their overall budget. there are 30 riders plus all the support staff, but i'm sure he's on a good whack

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Question for those who know about professional cycling - What kind of salary are team riders on? How does it compare with other sports such as football?

As I alluded to before only the stars are on the big money and even the big money is peanuts compared to even crap Premier League footballers, but of course win big titles and have bikes and riding gear in your name and I suppose (pun intended) the sky is the limit. The team domestiques are on really crap money but obviously if they rise in the way say Froome has in recent years, then the bigger pay days will come.

on a separate note you called it correct re-Wiggins and Evans, if ever there was any doubt about Wiggins ability in the mountains then today de-bunked that myth and to break a street fighter like Evans in the mountains is a real achievement and as Frenchay red has already said with another time trial to come barring a disaster it's Wiggins to lose now, Evans will not give it up, he is a fighter but the real danger will have to come from elsewhere.

[Frenchay Red]

A lot of the top riders do well through their own various sponsorship deals, advertisements and endorsements. But considering how tough the sport is and the amount of time it takes out of their lives for all the training miles, and racing miles, and time away from home, they are not that well paid.

[Redhyde]

It's very dependent on what they and their team achieve. Basic salary can be anything from 30k for a brand new rider, a good rider like David Millar or say would earn more around 75 - 100k, the super domestiques like Rodgers and Porte in the sky train would probably earn double to triple that, these are guys who can obviously make a difference when you're trying to win tours and they can in their on right win races. Then you can double that 350-600k for contenders for titles and double to triple that for guys who are marquee riders the Wiggins, Evans, Schlecks of this world £1-3 million. Then there's bonuses for winning stuff, merchandising, endorsements and any number of performance related bonuses.

You won't see Wiggens out the saddle sprinting uphill he just doesn't have the burst. I think Froome either vastly over estimated his Leaders ability or he was being a bit naughty because he should know that Wiggens wouldn't be sprinting up the mountain when there's no need and he as just showing the world he was feeling great and could carry on. It's created a story an probably means more money to Froome in the long run so fair play to him.

I think it made sense for Cavendish to work with Brailsford for this season but for his Olympic campaign but his Grand Tour future must lie elsewhere. GC is so much more important that anything else, and Cav's expensive for what he can bring to a team. And for his perspective he's not being given the best chance to win so it makes no sense for either to continue long term from a sporting point of view.