Hooligans, We Thank You

[Tall King Blox]

Ok guys, i know i will be slaughtered for this but i got to get this baby off my chest...

As some of you may know i am not the youngest poster on this forum, and hopefully, not the oldest !

but i see posts on here slaging off the very people that make football what it is today....Yes Hooligans !!!

When i was a babby in the old covered end ( east end for our younger viewers ) it was scarves and rattles

and jolly ho! and people wore badges and stuff on theire scarves, then one day back god i dont remember the year, we played Chelsea in a pre-season i think, point is that they came to the gate all wearing ( in pete townshend style) white boiler suites, and from looking from the covered end i remember they had a football which was kicked onto the pitch, which enveribly was followed by a pitch invasion and an impromptu game followed kicking towards the covered end,(east end), the ball goes in the net then they all jumped the fences and mobbed behind the goal, what followed that day is a bit of a fog cos it went a bit mental, local mods that were there mobbed as far as i remember and i think a few handbags were exchanged ( if you were there please enlighten me cos it's a bloody long time ago, selective memory and all that)....long story short as far as i remember the next home game we had a crew in the east end, comprising of, mods skins and utter nutters from all across bristol.......and we had a voice, for the first time i remember hearing chants at ashton gate!

not the crap that the blue few regurgitated every game " HAROLD " but a new found identity that drew me like a magnet...I immediately became part of the East End, and the rest is history, we fought, we sang, and we stuck together, home and away!......so next time one of you limp wristed tossers have a go at hooligans, remember yer history, and remember, we never wore flares.........thanks for reading...rant well and truely over

[And Its Smith]

All hooligans are idiots

[Guest Otter1991]

Ok guys, i know i will be slaughtered for this but i got to get this baby off my chest...

As some of you may know i am not the youngest poster on this forum, and hopefully, not the oldest !

but i see posts on here slaging off the very people that make football what it is today....Yes Hooligans !!!

When i was a babby in the old covered end ( east end for our younger viewers ) it was scarves and rattles

and jolly ho! and people wore badges and stuff on theire scarves, then one day back god i dont remember the year, we played Chelsea in a pre-season i think, point is that they came to the gate all wearing ( in pete townshend style) white boiler suites, and from looking from the covered end i remember they had a football which was kicked onto the pitch, which enveribly was followed by a pitch invasion and an impromptu game followed kicking towards the covered end,(east end), the ball goes in the net then they all jumped the fences and mobbed behind the goal, what followed that day is a bit of a fog cos it went a bit mental, local mods that were there mobbed as far as i remember and i think a few handbags were exchanged ( if you were there please enlighten me cos it's a bloody long time ago, selective memory and all that)....long story short as far as i remember the next home game we had a crew in the east end, comprising of, mods skins and utter nutters from all across bristol.......and we had a voice, for the first time i remember hearing chants at ashton gate!

not the crap that the blue few regurgitated every game " HAROLD " but a new found identity that drew me like a magnet...I immediately became part of the East End, and the rest is history, we fought, we sang, and we stuck together, home and away!......so next time one of you limp wristed tossers have a go at hooligans, remember yer history, and remember, we never wore flares.........thanks for reading...rant well and truely over

Very good post. Modern football is so sanitised and far to money/family orientated.

[Tall King Blox]

All hooligans are idiots

Your perspective being ?

[Guest Otter1991]

All hooligans are idiots

Well, that's simply not the case. Fool.

[Tall King Blox]

Very good post. Modern football is so sanitised and far to money/family orientated.

Not really my point, it is how it,s moved on, i respect that the day of falling around the terracing swapping punches with the nearest target ( usually one of your own ) is long gone, but the point is a lot of people are too ready to have a pop at that part of our support that actually brought the buzz into football, well for me it did, maybe i am branded an idiot as my well informed "RED DAVE" has so bravely commented, but hey Limp Wristed still stands x

[Rich]

I don't remember the boiler suits but I remember Chelsea skinheads invading the pitch and climbing into the east end. Their ensued some breaches of the peace. I remember that there were two local greebos at the back of the EE (bootwalk) and one smacked a chelsea fan, square round the head with his crash helmet.

After the match there were outbreaks of violence along coronation road, with chelsea fans being attacked and reputedly, some ending up in the river or mud banks.

After that as you say, the rest is history and has definately shaped the game and the type of support.

Having said that, my father in law told me that there was always trouble at Millwall games and that they'd had their ground closed as long ago as the thirties.

[Tall King Blox]

I don't remember the boiler suits but I remember Chelsea skinheads invading the pitch and climbing into the east end. Their ensued some breaches of the peace. I remember that there were two local greebos at the back of the EE (bootwalk) and one smacked a chelsea fan, square round the head with his crash helmet.

After the match there were outbreaks of violence along coronation road, with chelsea fans being attacked and reputedly, some ending up in the river or mud banks.

After that as you say, the rest is history and has definately shaped the game and the type of support.

Having said that, my father in law told me that there was always trouble at Millwall games and that they'd had their ground closed as long ago as the thirties.

Thanks for the back up, are you an idiot too ?

[slartibartfast]

Ok guys, i know i will be slaughtered for this but i got to get this baby off my chest...

As some of you may know i am not the youngest poster on this forum, and hopefully, not the oldest !

but i see posts on here slaging off the very people that make football what it is today....Yes Hooligans !!!

When i was a babby in the old covered end ( east end for our younger viewers ) it was scarves and rattles

and jolly ho! and people wore badges and stuff on theire scarves, then one day back god i dont remember the year, we played Chelsea in a pre-season i think, point is that they came to the gate all wearing ( in pete townshend style) white boiler suites, and from looking from the covered end i remember they had a football which was kicked onto the pitch, which enveribly was followed by a pitch invasion and an impromptu game followed kicking towards the covered end,(east end), the ball goes in the net then they all jumped the fences and mobbed behind the goal, what followed that day is a bit of a fog cos it went a bit mental, local mods that were there mobbed as far as i remember and i think a few handbags were exchanged ( if you were there please enlighten me cos it's a bloody long time ago, selective memory and all that)....long story short as far as i remember the next home game we had a crew in the east end, comprising of, mods skins and utter nutters from all across bristol.......and we had a voice, for the first time i remember hearing chants at ashton gate!

not the crap that the blue few regurgitated every game " HAROLD " but a new found identity that drew me like a magnet...I immediately became part of the East End, and the rest is history, we fought, we sang, and we stuck together, home and away!......so next time one of you limp wristed tossers have a go at hooligans, remember yer history, and remember, we never wore flares.........thanks for reading...rant well and truely over

I'll take issue on some parts. The game you mention was summer '68. The bit I'm not so happy about was the singing. The EE was singing long before then. My earliest recollection was our first season back in the second tier 1965. There was deffo singing then. I used to listen in awe from the old enclosure as I had to be taken by the old man and he refused to stand in there... "load of idiots, ruining football" he used to say.

[Tall King Blox]

I'll take issue on some parts. The game you mention was summer '68. The bit I'm not so happy about was the singing. The EE was singing long before then. My earliest recollection was our first season back in the second tier 1965. There was deffo singing then. I used to listen in awe from the old enclosure as I had to be taken by the old man and he refused to stand in there... "load of idiots, ruining football" he used to say.

Thank for that, like i said twas a long time ago and i respect your recollection, didnt get to many games, thinking about it this might have been my first game, that said thanks for the input, i stand corrected, respect, and thanks for explenation earlier of yer username, nutter.....crumbs, just done me sums, i was twelve, god have mercy on me shoes

[Rich]

Thanks for the back up, are you an idiot too ?

I am an idiot of the highest order.

As for the singing, my brother attended matches before me (66/7) and he told me of drums being used and the choir as they were termed singing and chanting, so it was definately before that, Don't you remember Engand 66 and Man UTD 68?

[slartibartfast]

Thank for that, like i said twas a long time ago and i respect your recollection, didnt get to many games, thinking about it this might have been my first game, that said thanks for the input, i stand corrected, respect, and thanks for explenation earlier of yer username, nutter.....crumbs, just done me sums, i was twelve, god have mercy on me shoes

No probs, us East Bris. lads have to stick together you know ! :0)

[Tall King Blox]

I am an idiot of the highest order.

As for the singing, my brother attended matches before me (66/7) and he told me of drums being used and the choir as they were termed singing and chanting, so it was definately before that, Don't you remember Engand 66 and Man UTD 68?

Yes, feeling a tad knobish now, but i was only twelve, had a hole in me underpants, i was distracted, but thanks for the positives, just would like to shut up the " posh fans " that dont understand our roots, warts n all

[slartibartfast]

Yes, feeling a tad knobish now, but i was only twelve, had a hole in me underpants, i was distracted, but thanks for the positives, just would like to shut up the " posh fans " that dont understand our roots, warts n all

To quote Tommy Cockles... "Marvelous times, I can assure you".

[Tall King Blox]

Got to go to bed now........still wearing the same pants ye harrrr

[Rich]

Yes, feeling a tad knobish now, but i was only twelve, had a hole in me underpants, i was distracted, but thanks for the positives, just would like to shut up the " posh fans " that dont understand our roots, warts n all

I don't know why you should feel knobish, (maybe the hole in your pants). Unless you were there and experienced the noise, colour, vibrancy, rivalry, adrenalin rush from the whole experience as a yougster, then it cannot be explained. Maybe being brought up watching war films or the 300 spartans did it. Kids get a rush from fingering a control pad now, not running up the road as Ben Hur, spartacus or Zarro.

[Tall King Blox]

I don't know why you should feel knobish, (maybe the hole in your pants). Unless you were there and experienced the noise, colour, vibrancy, rivalry, adrenalin rush from the whole experience as a yougster, then it cannot be explained. Maybe being brought up watching war films or the 300 spartans did it. Kids get a rush from fingering a control pad now, not running up the road as Ben Hur, spartacus or Zarro.

Bring back saturday morning films for the depraved few ( aint gonna happen for reasons you mention) but the rush for me will live forever, leaving home at ten, ( tenniscourt road) walk up to ernies(moravian road) for a curry and chips ( breakfast ) then down over hanham road to the bus depot to get the number 9 to the gate, with all it's resplendant fan friendly venue's,( the programme shop with no heating and shite staff) to while away the time till the turnstilles opened so you could go and sit on a frozen bit of terracing till your heroe's entered the arena, or buy nats piss tea or bovrill to bring the feeling back to your fingers, Hospitallity my arse, Ime a friggin hooligan, now i know why,

the fights kept me warm, loved every minute of it,

[RedRock]

The late 60's and 70's were mental. Defo was a buzz in those days that is missing now.

Who else went from East End on to the Park End to the Grandstand Paddock and then to Dolman Block A?

Interesting that even the police are more chilled today ... posted that after the Cardifff match. Seems to be policy based on our 'friends' at the WMP - as reported on the BBC last week. It's football Jim, but not as we know it!

Going back to The East End for Leeds - so full circle for me.

[Tall King Blox]

The late 60's and 70's were mental. Defo was a buzz in those days that is missing now.

Who else went from East End on to the Park End to the Grandstand Paddock and then to Dolman Block A?

Interesting that even the police are more chilled today ... posted that after the Cardifff match. Seems to be policy based on our 'friends' at the WMP - as reported on the BBC last week. It's football Jim, but not as we know it!

Going back to The East End for Leeds - so full circle for me.

Good comment, good circle, funny old life init, done the same thing, same order, probs same age, probs no hair he he, cant do leeds, my sister by some remarkable throw of the dice has decided to be sixty this sunday, she lives on exmoor so down there for the weekend with all bros and sisters ( mob handed, 6 of us ) have a safe day, and dont sit on the steps of the dolman, last time leeds fans were throwing themselves down em

[bissellredhead]

Not being from the 'hooligan era' i just cannot agree. For me the excitement of going to a football match is to support my team. If we win then the adrenaline i gain from that is enough for me, seeing 40 odd blokes with skin heads running towards me looking for a fight (for what reason?) does not excite me in anyway.

Maybe i dont understand because since ive been going to football, apart from a few handbags here and there, i have never seen anything like what you describe, and i cannot see that as part and parcel of football; if anything it is alien to me. for the 'old school' thats maybe where the rush you got from football came from, but i think nowadays especially for me the rush i get from football comes from a completely different aspect.

[RedRock]

After the East End, I fear the wheelchair enclosure in the Ateyo may be the next stop!! Interesting you spot the odd 'faces' who've done the same round.

Obviously similar life footie experiences I was on the 'frontline' of the incursion in north Bristol.

May pass you in the opposite direction on the M5 - Dartmoor's better than Exmoor BTW. Watch out for the odd Slag heading down to Exeter en-route.

[The Red Planet]

NO Thank You

[Tall King Blox]

Not being from the 'hooligan era' i just cannot agree. For me the excitement of going to a football match is to support my team. If we win then the adrenaline i gain from that is enough for me, seeing 40 odd blokes with skin heads running towards me looking for a fight (for what reason?) does not excite me in anyway.

Maybe i dont understand because since ive been going to football, apart from a few handbags here and there, i have never seen anything like what you describe, and i cannot see that as part and parcel of football; if anything it is alien to me. for the 'old school' thats maybe where the rush you got from football came from, but i think nowadays especially for me the rush i get from football comes from a completely different aspect.

Not a problem, we all live our lives as we see fit, in those early days football was a kind of release from ( sorry for the cliche) a crap school, no hope, and to a lesser part, no real direction as to where i wanted to be, that said i would be a liar if i didnt say that when i ran with the boys down at BS3 every saturday was amazing, be it home or away, and before you label me as this or that i will say that i found companionship, trust and love, in a manly gruff voice kinda way, still feel it in my heart, when i go to the gate and see the police vans i get a stiffy, should of changed them pants

[Tall King Blox]

After the East End, I fear the wheelchair enclosure in the Ateyo may be the next stop!! Interesting you spot the odd 'faces' who've done the same round.

Obviously similar life footie experiences I was on the 'frontline' of the incursion in north Bristol.

May pass you in the opposite direction on the M5 - Dartmoor's better than Exmoor BTW. Watch out for the odd Slag heading down to Exeter en-route.

yawn

Edit, sorry, mis read your post, bad time of year for Dartmoor, done that place all over,

[Tall King Blox]

NO Thank You

did i ask ?

[Nibor]

All hooligans are idiots

Spot on. The sooner we can eradicate the vermin from football the better.

[havanatopia]

Spot on. The sooner we can eradicate the vermin from football the better.

I knew there was a post from Nibor, just around the corner, that I was going to agree with !

[CalgaryRed]

I do miss some of the old chants like "My old man said be a Rovers fan...I said ..." etc.

[REDOXO]

Ok guys, i know i will be slaughtered for this but i got to get this baby off my chest...

As some of you may know i am not the youngest poster on this forum, and hopefully, not the oldest !

but i see posts on here slaging off the very people that make football what it is today....Yes Hooligans !!!

When i was a babby in the old covered end ( east end for our younger viewers ) it was scarves and rattles

and jolly ho! and people wore badges and stuff on theire scarves, then one day back god i dont remember the year, we played Chelsea in a pre-season i think, point is that they came to the gate all wearing ( in pete townshend style) white boiler suites, and from looking from the covered end i remember they had a football which was kicked onto the pitch, which enveribly was followed by a pitch invasion and an impromptu game followed kicking towards the covered end,(east end), the ball goes in the net then they all jumped the fences and mobbed behind the goal, what followed that day is a bit of a fog cos it went a bit mental, local mods that were there mobbed as far as i remember and i think a few handbags were exchanged ( if you were there please enlighten me cos it's a bloody long time ago, selective memory and all that)....long story short as far as i remember the next home game we had a crew in the east end, comprising of, mods skins and utter nutters from all across bristol.......and we had a voice, for the first time i remember hearing chants at ashton gate!

not the crap that the blue few regurgitated every game " HAROLD " but a new found identity that drew me like a magnet...I immediately became part of the East End, and the rest is history, we fought, we sang, and we stuck together, home and away!......so next time one of you limp wristed tossers have a go at hooligans, remember yer history, and remember, we never wore flares.........thanks for reading...rant well and truely over

Made me smile!

[redcityman]

A man who doesn't like fighting is no man at all.

http://www.army.mod.uk/join/join.aspx

There you go, knock yourself out.

[Guest beijing red]

The first time I can remember away fans singing behind the goal in the East End was against Wolves (I think). Possibly 1965 ish and an evening ko. (need some help here if anyone can remember it)

I was amazed at how many of them there were, they all sang together throughout the game, knew all the words, and helped their team to victory. It was the Wolves fans showing us how it was done, and they were good!

After that The City East End started to get it together, and the rest is history.

Probably the game that really stands out for me was when Millwall turned up in their full skinhead gear. They congregated at the back of the East End, and had the run of the place without too much resistance. All a bit scarey and the first time I'd seen proper hard core 'fans'.

[Guest bywaterred]

I do miss some of the old chants like "My old man said be a Rovers fan...I said ..." etc.

We still sing this?

[Spike]

If a baby is conceived via rape and the mother loves the child unconditionally does that mean she should be thankful of the rape?

I'm sorry but hooliganism has no part in football and is nothing to look back and be thankful of, sure it drove a lot of football revenue in the past but there is nothing good in beating a fellow man and no rivalry justifies physical violence. Anyone who condones football hooligans obviously does not have children and also has no respect for the game of football can bring people together, it's sporting events like the Olympics that shows the true nature of a sport, where sportsmen and women can compete at the highest level and still maintain respect for one another.

I'm sure I'll get a lot of "the world ain't a perfect place" or "football is not like any other sport" but the reason it's not like any other sport is because it's tainted, tainted by bad sports, arrogant people who are overpaid and under worked and this is fuelling a bad nature within the sport, a "cheat to win" philosophy that deems cheating "ok".

Sorry but hooligans are pathetic people with little to no real clue on what life is about, I'd much rather sit in a family stand and sing with my kids knowing they'll do the same thing when they a're parents themselves than put some guy in hospital over nothing and cause his family a heart ache when they see him all bruised and bloodied.

It's this "hooliganism is good" attitude that holds the club back, I mean why would the council want us to have a new stadium when they can come on here and read idiotic posts that glorify violence within the very city that we want the stadium to be built?! I honestly hope that any hooligan element left going to the games gets banned for life, you're not a supporter, you're a virus clinging onto the club leaching the very life from it.

[slartibartfast]

The first time I can remember away fans singing behind the goal in the East End was against Wolves (I think). Possibly 1965 ish and an evening ko. (need some help here if anyone can remember it)

I was amazed at how many of them there were, they all sang together throughout the game, knew all the words, and helped their team to victory. It was the Wolves fans showing us how it was done, and they were good!

After that The City East End started to get it together, and the rest is history.

Probably the game that really stands out for me was when Millwall turned up in their full skinhead gear. They congregated at the back of the East End, and had the run of the place without too much resistance. All a bit scarey and the first time I'd seen proper hard core 'fans'.

That was the first match under our new floodlights,'65.

Wolves fans also paid people in the "Nelson Mandela" flats to use their balcony !

[phantom]

I wonder how many people in this thread condeming the OP were actually around "back in the day" ?

Or is it just the Daily Mail / BBC news version that they can relate to ?

[Gazred]

Nostalgia - Yay

Violence at Football - Nay

Reminisce all you want. Nothing good or clever about beating the shit out of another human being "just because...."

[redfieldred]

I was a kid when the 70s in the glory years. At away games i was scared - bricks coming over barriers etc landing on 10 year olds - oh the good old days. At both home and away all it meant for me was a lot more police and a lot more hearding of fans. Holiganism directly led to Hysel - dead people oh joy - and indirectly to Hillsborough - by making the police presence and influence so great. What i hate about the hooliganism is it gives the authorities a chance to treat fans like cattle. Never put me off going though.

[Robbored]

I wonder how many people in this thread condeming the OP were actually around "back in the day" ?

I was and have some empathy as to where the OP is coming from. I well remember those days and the sense of 'belonging' that came with it. To be honest my memory is of lots and lots of laughs, lots of posturing and the occasional bit of 'aggro' as it was called back then. We didn't get into brawls every away game. The County Ground was always a place where you would find 'bovver'

I see it differently now almost 40 years on. I don't have the desire to 'belong' any more nor do I have the testosterone levels to want to smash up the opposition fans.I take a dim view of hooliganism but at the same time understand why it happens.

[Monkeh]

hooligans are just thugs and have no place in the modern game anymore, all they do is get the club into trouble which in turn causes sanctions like playing behind closed doors incresed police pressence and restrictions on where you can sit,

praising them is stupid imo

[Spike]

I wonder how many people in this thread condeming the OP were actually around "back in the day" ?

Or is it just the Daily Mail / BBC news version that they can relate to ?

My father was back in the day and he's lucky to see today after a Chelsea fan cornered him and stuck a glass bottle in his head, he almost died from blood loss... yeah ******* great days they were...

[Gazred]

A man who doesn't like fighting is no man at all.

Would love you to expand and explain that comment.

You often post interesting things Snarf, but that's just inflammatory crap and you know it.

[Fodbarmyarmy]

Yes thank you hooligans indeed for without you we would not have

• Bubble matches
  
• No drinking on official coach travel to ANY away games
  
• Laws covering "no drinking enroute to any designated sporting event" (a law which I have experience with when driving a private minibus to Norwich Away in the cup back in 90's......£150 fine and additional trip to Norfolk to appear in court)
  
• Constant videoing of fans "in case of trouble"
  
• West Mids police arresting anyone who hints at having a drink....
  
• Being treated as cattle as and when it suits the authorities
  
• ID Cards and memberships to be even allowed to buy a ticket to a game
  
• Dare I add FULL SEATER STADIA .........
  
• High cost of match policing for "vulnerable" games ...all of which is passed on
  
• CCTV to Police throughout stadia
  
• Posters having to shout "what about our civil rights"
  

The list can go on and on.........

Yes thank you .

[dezgimed]

Sorry but the original post looks like it's written by a child. OP is Probably uneducated with a low IQ so to be expected that he comes out with such drivel.

[Frome Valley]

Yes thank you hooligans indeed for without you we would not have

• Bubble matches
  
• No drinking on official coach travel to ANY away games
  
• Laws covering "no drinking enroute to any designated sporting event" (a law which I have experience with when driving a private minibus to Norwich Away in the cup back in 90's......£150 fine and additional trip to Norfolk to appear in court)
  
• Constant videoing of fans "in case of trouble"
  
• West Mids police arresting anyone who hints at having a drink....
  
• Being treated as cattle as and when it suits the authorities
  
• ID Cards and memberships to be even allowed to buy a ticket to a game
  
• Dare I add FULL SEATER STADIA .........
  
• High cost of match policing for "vulnerable" games ...all of which is passed on
  
• CCTV to Police throughout stadia
  
• Posters having to shout "what about our civil rights"
  

The list can go on and on.........

Yes thank you .

I would disagree. Much of that can be attributed to government policy and a shift to a more authoritarian police force. The criminal justice act of the nineties changed laws, freedoms, police powers and attitudes to towards public order. Radical activists, ravers, travellers, squatters etc would also recognise those themes.

[slartibartfast]

Sorry but the original post looks like it's written by a child. OP is Probably uneducated with a low IQ so to be expected that he comes out with such drivel.

Would you be prepared to say that to his face ?

[dezgimed]

Would you be prepared to say that to his face ?

Why? So we can have a punch up?

That's what morons do isn't it?

[Guest poland_red]

Sorry but the original post looks like it's written by a child. OP is Probably uneducated with a low IQ so to be expected that he comes out with such drivel.

I think the original post was made in good spirit and captured a nostalgia for the era. It has also encouraged a sensible debate that's been interesting to read. Your post, on the other hand, reverts to name calling. Detach yourself for one moment and ask, which post is it which looks like it was written by a child.

And to Kingswood Mask, great post, and good to see someone posting such words and sentiments in full knowledge the forum top table would have kittens. fair play mate!

[Always Ashton Red]

Sorry but the original post looks like it's written by a child. OP is Probably uneducated with a low IQ so to be expected that he comes out with such drivel.

Yet another pointless post...

[dezgimed]

All you fellas need to join a gym or boxing club, or maybe sign up for national service if you wanna vent your anger in a proper manner.

[Tall King Blox]

I think the original post was made in good spirit and captured a nostalgia for the era. It has also encouraged a sensible debate that's been interesting to read. Your post, on the other hand, reverts to name calling. Detach yourself for one moment and ask, which post is it which looks like it was written by a child.

And to Kingswood Mask, great post, and good to see someone posting such words and sentiments in full knowledge the forum top table would have kittens. fair play mate!

Thank you for your post, you are one of the few who actually understood the original post,

to be fair a few on here have been belting on about the hooligan element at football today, i do not condone violence in any way,shape or form, though on occasions in the seventies did get mixed up in a few hadbag stand off's

That said my original post was trying to say when the "Ends" came into being the atmosphere at games became exciting, dare i say even enjoyable, and that buzz is still with us today, started mainly by the hooligans, thats all

[dezgimed]

I think the issue is people understand the buzz factor, but it's the glorifying etc that isn't on.

[Guest poland_red]

Thank you for your post, you are one of the few who actually understood the original post,

to be fair a few on here have been belting on about the hooligan element at football today, i do not condone violence in any way,shape or form, though on occasions in the seventies did get mixed up in a few hadbag stand off's

That said my original post was trying to say when the "Ends" came into being the atmosphere at games became exciting, dare i say even enjoyable, and that buzz is still with us today, started mainly by the hooligans, thats all

football is nothing without the tribalism that surrounds it. It lends an edge that other sports can't replicate. I'm certainly younger than Kingswood, but it's this atmosphere that hooked me when I was a young'un, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

The more this hereditary atmosphere is eroded and the more the game is sanitized the more we have to rely on daft initiatives to turn 'the gate or red' or whatever it is the club tries to do nowadays. What was once a game for lads who wanted a laugh on saturday has evolved into some sort of bastardized version of the NFL. It's soul destroying to see. Football lost it's edge a long time ago, and i for one miss the 'old days', and I'm speaking as someone who is relatively young but had the privilege of catching the tail end of a standing east end and the glories that came with it.

I don't miss getting my head caved in, and like Kingswood i do not condone violence, but remembering the buzz of old - wow. Modern football doesn't compare. Of course, it's predictable to see the OTIB superfans united in condemnation without actually reading the posts fully and appreciating their nostalgia for terrace culture.

[redfieldred]

The terrace culture was ended because of deaths due indirectly to hooliganism.

[Guest poland_red]

The terrace culture was ended because of deaths due indirectly to hooliganism.

there is not one sane soul on the planet who would not agree that any death at football is wrong and deeply saddening. But did the closure of terraces stop the deaths? People are still dropping dead at football grounds the world over, deleting terraces from the map hasn't changed that, it's only changed the matchday experience into something that really isn't enjoyable.

[Frome Valley]

The terrace culture was ended because of deaths due indirectly to hooliganism.

Hillsborough could have happened in any previous decade. Where deaths in the forties at stadiums indirectly attributed to over crowding or a sub culture?

Terrace culture - football culture was not the only thing ended under Margaret Thatcher. Read up on the criminal justice act and who it was targetted against

[Monkeh]

I would disagree. Much of that can be attributed to government policy and a shift to a more authoritarian police force. The criminal justice act of the nineties changed laws, freedoms, police powers and attitudes to towards public order. Radical activists, ravers, travellers, squatters etc would also recognise those themes.

why isn't that the case for rugby then? dare i say because there isn't or has ever been a hooligan problem?

[Guest poland_red]

why isn't that the case for rugby then? dare i say because there isn't or has ever been a hooligan problem?

rugby league certainly did have a hooligan problem with the key derby games often ending in a hair-razing manner.

[redfieldred]

No Hillsborough could not have happened in the 40s because there were no enormous metal cages stoppuing opposing fans from fighting each other. These came in after hooliganism took hold.

[Monkeh]

rugby league certainly did have a hooligan problem with the key derby games often ending in a hair-razing manner.

what about T20 you get a great atmosphere you can drink in the stand and have banter/sit with away supporters the same as most rugby games

[Guest poland_red]

No Hillsborough could not have happened in the 40s because there were no enormous metal cages stoppuing opposing fans from fighting each other. These came in after hooliganism took hold.

I'm not qualified to speak on the matter, but I'm sure the Ibrox disaster did not feature any fences?

[chipdawg]

football is nothing without the tribalism that surrounds it. It lends an edge that other sports can't replicate. I'm certainly younger than Kingswood, but it's this atmosphere that hooked me when I was a young'un, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

The more this hereditary atmosphere is eroded and the more the game is sanitized the more we have to rely on daft initiatives to turn 'the gate or red' or whatever it is the club tries to do nowadays. What was once a game for lads who wanted a laugh on saturday has evolved into some sort of bastardized version of the NFL. It's soul destroying to see. Football lost it's edge a long time ago, and i for one miss the 'old days', and I'm speaking as someone who is relatively young but had the privilege of catching the tail end of a standing east end and the glories that came with it.

I don't miss getting my head caved in, and like Kingswood i do not condone violence, but remembering the buzz of old - wow. Modern football doesn't compare. Of course, it's predictable to see the OTIB superfans united in condemnation without actually reading the posts fully and appreciating their nostalgia for terrace culture.

Some may well have missed the point, but then perhaps Km shouldn't have entitled his post 'Hooligans, we thank you'. As others have pointed out, this really is a chicken and egg argument. Football is definitely more sanitised than it was 30 years ago. The reason it became sanitised was because of violence and crime associated with football matches. Unfortunately 'terrace culture' is inseparable from violence and so I just don't believe that society is responsible enough to have 'an edge' without it going too far. Perhaps those who participated in 'the odd scrap' back in the day should consider that it was their actions that made (or at least contributed to) this particular 'bed' in which we all lie?

[Frome Valley]

why isn't that the case for rugby then? dare i say because there isn't or has ever been a hooligan problem?

There is hardly a hooligan problem at Glastonbury, Reading etc check where the ticket money goes. Glastonbury's named charity now could be the Avon and Somerset constabulary. Festival goers will notice a similar gentrification and massive shift in demographics to football.

Hardly a hooligan problem at the old free festivals. Hippies don't fight, but that culture was made illegal.

Rugby is a alien world, dare I say it an upper class driven sport which gives it a differing status.

[ciderup]

I'm not the same vintage as the OP but not far off.

I started going to the Gate in 1975 with my dad and remember the noise coming out of the covered end, I was in absolute awe to be honest. My dad used to take me in the enclosure, right by the whitewashed walls of the tunnel stood on a fold away metal stool (imagine that nowadays).

My first memory of trouble at the Gate would have been Chelsea when my old man threw me under his shoulder, put his coat over me and just legged it through a load of nutters kicking the crap out of each other outside what is now the Tobacco factory. As a 7 year old, I was absolutely terrified!

I kind of understand what the OP means in his post but I think there's an element of romanticism in our memories of yesteryear. Yes it was much louder than nowadays and yes, the Gate was a very intimidating place for visiting supporters but I don't think it was all down to hooliganism, certainly tribalism and I don't think they are the same thing WTGR to the OP.

[Guest poland_red]

what about T20 you get a great atmosphere you can drink in the stand and have banter/sit with away supporters the same as most rugby games

like my response to Redfield Red regarding something else, this is not something I'm qualified to speak about. However, to my (admittedly) very vague knowledge of rugby T20 (!? I'm assuming this is union or something like that!?), the very dynamic of the crowd is different and made up of a hotch potch of ex-public schoolboys, fox-hunting sympathisers, estate agents and middle-aged women in their ankle length dresses and thermos full of tea. I might be incorrect on this, and feel free to correct me. If I'm right, I'd rather rugby kept this demographic.

[Frome Valley]

No Hillsborough could not have happened in the 40s because there were no enormous metal cages stoppuing opposing fans from fighting each other. These came in after hooliganism took hold.

The Burdean park disaster in the forties and Hillsborough were down to poor stadium management. People at Hillsborough were also injured entering the stadium. Ibrox in the seventies - poor stadium management again.

[southside]

Ok guys, i know i will be slaughtered for this but i got to get this baby off my chest...

As some of you may know i am not the youngest poster on this forum, and hopefully, not the oldest !

but i see posts on here slaging off the very people that make football what it is today....Yes Hooligans !!!

When i was a babby in the old covered end ( east end for our younger viewers ) it was scarves and rattles

and jolly ho! and people wore badges and stuff on theire scarves, then one day back god i dont remember the year, we played Chelsea in a pre-season i think, point is that they came to the gate all wearing ( in pete townshend style) white boiler suites, and from looking from the covered end i remember they had a football which was kicked onto the pitch, which enveribly was followed by a pitch invasion and an impromptu game followed kicking towards the covered end,(east end), the ball goes in the net then they all jumped the fences and mobbed behind the goal, what followed that day is a bit of a fog cos it went a bit mental, local mods that were there mobbed as far as i remember and i think a few handbags were exchanged ( if you were there please enlighten me cos it's a bloody long time ago, selective memory and all that)....long story short as far as i remember the next home game we had a crew in the east end, comprising of, mods skins and utter nutters from all across bristol.......and we had a voice, for the first time i remember hearing chants at ashton gate!

not the crap that the blue few regurgitated every game " HAROLD " but a new found identity that drew me like a magnet...I immediately became part of the East End, and the rest is history, we fought, we sang, and we stuck together, home and away!......so next time one of you limp wristed tossers have a go at hooligans, remember yer history, and remember, we never wore flares.........thanks for reading...rant well and truely over

Good post mate, I know where you're coming from completely,

you've certainly ruffled the blouses of the oh so superior big girls on here!

[chipdawg]

There is hardly a hooligan problem at Glastonbury, Reading etc check where the ticket money goes. Glastonbury's named charity now could be the Avon and Somerset constabulary. Festival goers will notice a similar gentrification and massive shift in demographics to football.

Hardly a hooligan problem at the old free festivals. Hippies don't fight, but that culture was made illegal.

Rugby is a alien world, dare I say it an upper class driven sport which gives it a differing status.

Yeah but Glastonbury is a gathering of 170,000 people the majority of whom are there to get off their faces. It's a city the size of Sunderland appearing in the countryside for a week- of course it needs policing. Plus, (I'm assuming you go) gave you seen the quantities of drugs that are consumed there?! That's perhaps a whole different argument but the bottom line is, there are a lot of people doing a lot of illegal things at Glastonbury. Don't get me wrong, I love the place- I'm having my honeymoon there next year (tickets allowing)- but to argue that it doesn't need police is ludicrous. I do take your points on the criminalisation of certain lifestyle choices though

As for rugby, what about rugby league? Incredibly working class and hardly any trouble there

[Guest poland_red]

Yeah but Glastonbury is a gathering of 170,000 people the majority of whom are there to get off their faces. It's a city the size of Sunderland appearing in the countryside for a week- of course it needs policing. Plus, (I'm assuming you go) gave you seen the quantities of drugs that are consumed there?! That's perhaps a whole different argument but the bottom line is, there are a lot of people doing a lot of illegal things at Glastonbury. Don't get me wrong, I love the place- I'm having my honeymoon there next year (tickets allowing)- but to argue that it doesn't need police is ludicrous. I do take your points on the criminalisation of certain lifestyle choices though

As for rugby, what about rugby league? Incredibly working class and hardly any trouble there

rugby league was notorious for mass disorder in the 80s - refer to Hull City Psychos by Sean Tordorff for more information. Yes, it's a book about Hull's football mob, but it gives plenty of space for the rugby team and what they got up to. Just as bad as the football escapades in fact, if not worse.

[Gazred]

Good post mate, I know where you're coming from completely,

you've certainly ruffled the blouses of the oh so superior big girls on here!

And there it is again, questioning someone's masculinity just because they don't condone violence at a football match. Pathetic.

[Guest cider_dog]

If young men want to fight, let them fight.

On the trains, on the parks, on the terraces...

If they are only fighting each other whats the harm done?

Alas I am a bit old a frail to throw some blows nowadays, but back in the eighties I played my part.

British Football is NOT Opera, Waitrose, BBC3 or Vuvu ******* zelas.

It is a tribal, spite filled battle held on a rectangle of green pasture.

That's why I love it.

And yes, I would pay for a ticket to the Rome Colosseum to watch gladiators fight to the death. Why?

Because that's how you feel ALIVE .

Rant over.