New Ground

[BCAGFC]

I like the second design because it is the modern version of ashton gate which keeps its character. There is one thing I would like to have, I would like to see the players entrance moved back to the williams like it used to be. Then it would make the Atyeo stand look better. Also I would like to see the away supporters in the atyeo and the whole of the east end open up to the city fans like it used to be. I would like to know the clubs plans on this. Something else I noticed on the video, football posts are square! they should be round! ... joke.

1:26 minutes shows the atyeo with the players entrance.

That's not the players entrance, it is the away end with a maintenance access tunnel, the players tunnel is located in the Main stand where the executive boxes are.

If you have a look at the plans, you can see where the warm up room/changing rooms etc etc are.

AV is HUGE, 3 restaurants, loads of executive boxes to bring the cash in, massive 2000 seat conference centre to bring the cash in, TV studio to bring the cash in, bars to bring the cash in.

BCAGFC

[sbred]

That's not the players entrance, it is the away end with a maintenance access tunnel, the players tunnel is located in the Main stand where the executive boxes are.

If you have a look at the plans, you can see where the warm up room/changing rooms etc etc are.

AV is HUGE, 3 restaurants, loads of executive boxes to bring the cash in, massive 2000 seat conference centre to bring the cash in, TV studio to bring the cash in, bars to bring the cash in.

BCAGFC

Does it have anything to bring the cash in though?

[spudski]

That's not the players entrance, it is the away end with a maintenance access tunnel, the players tunnel is located in the Main stand where the executive boxes are.

If you have a look at the plans, you can see where the warm up room/changing rooms etc etc are.

AV is HUGE, 3 restaurants, loads of executive boxes to bring the cash in, massive 2000 seat conference centre to bring the cash in, TV studio to bring the cash in, bars to bring the cash in.

BCAGFC

Very similar to this then... http://www.ricoharena.com/

Great for business and gigs, but doesn't gaurantee a great matchday experience or good football team.

Neither does it Gaurantee crowds. Coventry are a bigger club than us, and last year averaged 15,000 and this year less than 11,000.

[BCAGFC]

Very similar to this then... http://www.ricoharena.com/

Great for business and gigs, but doesn't gaurantee a great matchday experience or good football team.

Neither does it Gaurantee crowds. Coventry are a bigger club than us, and last year averaged 15,000 and this year less than 11,000.

I never said it would bring extra fans in, it will bring extra cash in though through business opportunities.....after all we have to cover the 11m losses per season somehow.

As for matchday experience, personally, it can't be any worse than AG is now.

BCAGFC

[sbred]

I never said it would bring extra fans in, it will bring extra cash in though through business opportunities.....after all we have to cover the 11m losses per season somehow.

As for matchday experience, personally, it can't be any worse than AG is now.

BCAGFC

Of course it can, at least you can still stand in a traditional stand at the minute.

[spudski]

I never said it would bring extra fans in, it will bring extra cash in though through business opportunities.....after all we have to cover the 11m losses per season somehow.

As for matchday experience, personally, it can't be any worse than AG is now.

BCAGFC

For all the reasons i mentioned in my earlier posts, those are all part and parcel of the matchday, regardless of the standard of football on the park.

Take away that, and you have poor football in a souless concrete excuse of a football stadium.

What you really have is a business centre, with shops and restaurants and a football pitch slapped down in the middle.

Many fans go because of the tradition.

They went with their dads, their grandparents, GF's etc,etc.

It feels like an old comfy pair of slippers.

I'd happily spend all day long in League 1 to keep AG.

When we lose it... and we spend another 100 years treading water, bemoaning our 'Sleeping Giant' tag, and getting no where... then you'll wish we never lost it.

We knock down pretty much everything that is good in this country.

It's a disgrace.

We should hold on to our memories and tradition.

All my mates on the continent think we are nuts for knocking down our old stadiums. And i agree with them.

[beaverface]

Following on from the ongoing TVG threat got me thinking about what the proposed stadium is supposed to look like again.....

There's 2 videos out on youtube.... This one,

This is the original one am I right? My thoughts.... Boring. A level lower tiered bowl encompassing the ground. 2 end stands are identical with see through roofs and the side stands similar (same height but one has an extra row of executive boxes) Would be very dissapointed with this.

And this one....

My thoughts...better. The lower tiered bowl isn't all the same level and I prefers the end stand not being see through. Looks better with "BRISTOL CITY" in the seats too. The shot at 56 seconds actually looks similar to the kop and their adjoining stand which I like. The thing is and the main reason for posting is that there are no great shots of the other 2 stands.... Does anyone have any? Is the other end stand identical?

I can't quite remember now but I'm guessing the club altered the design slightly.

I'm not a massive supporter of the new stadium (unless it comes with it safe standing) but out of the 2 the 2nd is sooo much better. Will this be the final design or will we have chance to express input into it???

If you stop the 2nd video after 1:02 minutes, why is it City always have wasteland in the corners of stands?

We've AG got corregated cladding where the police box is, we've got brick wall where the East End meets the Dolman, we've got the club shop where the Williams and Atyeo meet and there's open space between the Atyeo and Dolman.

Why can't we just use space more efficiently ??!

[KeepUpLino]

Then why are so many fans relocated to new stadiums envious of us?

Envious of our ground? What about are wretched team..... We need revenue from the new ground to progress, why do people not understand this?

[KeepUpLino]

I never said it would bring extra fans in, it will bring extra cash in though through business opportunities.....after all we have to cover the 11m losses per season somehow.

As for matchday experience, personally, it can't be any worse than AG is now.

BCAGFC

What is the love for our dire old stadium.... People ******g hate progress and change!! A lot on here sound like a different version of the nimbys!

[Red Ferret]

What is the love for our dire old stadium.... People ******g hate progress and change!! A lot on here sound like a different version of the nimbys!

Football to a lot of people is more than just winning games. It's the actual experience and tradition they like and why they keep returning

Personally I would rather see City in the Championship / League 1 at Ashton Gate than in a new build identikit shopping centre in the Premier League. I think I'm in the minority though

[KeepUpLino]

Football to a lot of people is more than just winning games. It's the actual experience and tradition they like and why they keep returning

Personally I would rather see City in the Championship / League 1 at Ashton Gate than in a new build identikit shopping centre in the Premier League. I think I'm in the minority though

I've been a city fan since I was 7 years old, I'm 34 now and have been a season ticket holder for 7 years on the bounce.. My experience the last 3 years has been absolutely awful, no atmosphere no **** all... The best part of my match day is catching up with the mates i rarely see for a few beers in the coopers, love that part of the day.. I don't see what part our old ramshackle old stadium has to play in our match day experience, all it does is depress me at how far we are slipping behind other clubs!!! Lovely pitch mind

[BcfcDuncs]

Come on guys , we can't stay in Ashton gate , we need to progress with the rest of the world , how much as I would miss the gate , the throught of a brand new stadium and era excites me , and by the designs it has abit of character unlike some of the newer stadiums out there ! The throught of redeveloping part of the ground would in my opinion look terrible with half the ground new and half dying of death , just look at Plymouths .

[glynriley]

For all the reasons i mentioned in my earlier posts, those are all part and parcel of the matchday, regardless of the standard of football on the park.

Take away that, and you have poor football in a souless concrete excuse of a football stadium.

What you really have is a business centre, with shops and restaurants and a football pitch slapped down in the middle.

Many fans go because of the tradition.

They went with their dads, their grandparents, GF's etc,etc.

It feels like an old comfy pair of slippers.

I'd happily spend all day long in League 1 to keep AG.

When we lose it... and we spend another 100 years treading water, bemoaning our 'Sleeping Giant' tag, and getting no where... then you'll wish we never lost it.

We knock down pretty much everything that is good in this country.

It's a disgrace.

We should hold on to our memories and tradition.

All my mates on the continent think we are nuts for knocking down our old stadiums. And i agree with them.

Except when you've got a bad knee , eh Spudski !!!!

[spudski]

Except when you've got a bad knee , eh Spudski !!!!

Blimey... you've got a good memory mate.

Actually the knee is really good now. Not even a twinge. Back to fighting fit again. Playing lots of sport too.

Amazing what coming off prescribed drugs can do.

I can actually sit 'comfortably' in a Williams wooden seat now . Would prefer to stand obviously....

As for the Stadium.

It's not going to please everyone.

Some want AV others don't, and no matter of argueing the toss about it's benefit will alter those minds.

Come on guys , we can't stay in Ashton gate , we need to progress with the rest of the world , how much as I would miss the gate , the throught of a brand new stadium and era excites me , and by the designs it has abit of character unlike some of the newer stadiums out there ! The throught of redeveloping part of the ground would in my opinion look terrible with half the ground new and half dying of death , just look at Plymouths .

Progress??? See I don't see it as progress.

[chipdawg]

For all the reasons i mentioned in my earlier posts, those are all part and parcel of the matchday, regardless of the standard of football on the park.

Take away that, and you have poor football in a souless concrete excuse of a football stadium.

What you really have is a business centre, with shops and restaurants and a football pitch slapped down in the middle.

Many fans go because of the tradition.

They went with their dads, their grandparents, GF's etc,etc.

It feels like an old comfy pair of slippers.

I'd happily spend all day long in League 1 to keep AG.

When we lose it... and we spend another 100 years treading water, bemoaning our 'Sleeping Giant' tag, and getting no where... then you'll wish we never lost it.

We knock down pretty much everything that is good in this country.

It's a disgrace.

We should hold on to our memories and tradition.

All my mates on the continent think we are nuts for knocking down our old stadiums. And i agree with them.

Actually, we're great at preserving old buildings in this country; I have several friends who live in Japan and over there even their 'old' buildings are just reproductions. Shinto temples are knocked down and rebuilt every 20-odd years, buildings are largely regarded as temporary occupants of land. Osaka castle looks like a grand 600 year old fortress but it's less than a century iirc

In an ideal world I think staying at Ashton Gate would be brilliant; build a couple of extra stands, retain the traditional feel of the place, but I just can't see how it's a long-term solution. We can debate what we regard as progress, but for the current owner and most fans that would be to establish ourselves in the Premier League. If we whack up a couple of new stands and increase capacity to, say, 28k that might be fine for a few years and then where do we go? You might not agree with Lansdown's vision for the club but he's in the driving seat I'm afraid and on the path he's currently steering a new stadium seems inevitable to me. Hopefully it'll be designed with the fan experience in mind

[spudski]

Actually, we're great at preserving old buildings in this country; I have several friends who live in Japan and over there even their 'old' buildings are just reproductions. Shinto temples are knocked down and rebuilt every 20-odd years, buildings are largely regarded as temporary occupants of land. Osaka castle looks like a grand 600 year old fortress but it's less than a century iirc

In an ideal world I think staying at Ashton Gate would be brilliant; build a couple of extra stands, retain the traditional feel of the place, but I just can't see how it's a long-term solution. We can debate what we regard as progress, but for the current owner and most fans that would be to establish ourselves in the Premier League. If we whack up a couple of new stands and increase capacity to, say, 28k that might be fine for a few years and then where do we go? You might not agree with Lansdown's vision for the club but he's in the driving seat I'm afraid and on the path he's currently steering a new stadium seems inevitable to me. Hopefully it'll be designed with the fan experience in mind

I agree, we do keep older buildings, but we do have a tendency to ruin old football stadiums.

I'm not a pessimist, but i look at other football clubs around the Championship and and League 1 who are far bigger than us, have far more regular fans and have been struggling for years. They are all trying to do the same as us. Yet can't achieve it, regardless of their ground, income, players, manager etc,etc.

I really do think people are delusional if they think our income is going to improve dramatically by having the odd big Gig, or a few conferences. The initieal influx of inquistitive fans will diminish if the football is still as dire. It's like covering a pigs ear in a silk purse. You can jazz it up as much as you like, if the product on the field isn't good enough or entertaining, then people will still stay away. Then their is the cost... Trust me prices will go up.

People seem to be using this issue of the stadium as an excuse for us not to kick ahead on the pitch.

Funny when you think about it.

How would we be doing if we had won at Wembley against Hull?

We would still be at AG.

Would we bemoaning the fact that we can't survive without a new stadium?

Build a couple new stands at AG... increase capacity to 25,000-28,000. EE and Williams stand could easily do this.

Fulham seem to do ok, without losing their tradition.

[BCAGFC]

My first City games in 1968 were watched from the Dolman & Grandstand, at 12yo I moved to the EE and stayed there until I became a founder member of the Parkenders.

Over the years I have watched City from the Grandstand enclosure, Dolman A & B block & Grandstand B block while returning to the EE on occassions (Chelski in the FAC etc, etc).

These days, health limits me to the Grandstand lower tier but even if I was fit I wouldn't want to jump around like an idiot (although I would still be active with the CSF ), I have grown up now.......I've done all that before.

I want BCFC to progress and I trust SLs vision of AV and our future if it comes off (yes his managerial appointments may have been dodgy at times but) he knows how to make cash.....that is what his business does.

New stadiums have been proved to make more cash than older stadiums, Arsenal, Reading, Manchester City, Swansea City, Stoke City, Sunderland, Wigan Athletic, Southampton, Brighton & HA, Middlesbrough, Leicester City, Hull City, Derby County, Bolton Wanderers, Cardiff City are all bringing in HUGE profits up to what they were at their old grounds.

Yes there are clubs that have redeveloped their grounds (Norwich, Tottenham, Chelski) but they have limited capacity and 2 of those 3 are looking for new stadium sites.....that says it all.

BCAGFC

[Cowshed]

My first City games in 1968 were watched from the Dolman & Grandstand, at 12yo I moved to the EE and stayed there until I became a founder member of the Parkenders.

Over the years I have watched City from the Grandstand enclosure, Dolman A & B block & Grandstand B block while returning to the EE on occassions (Chelski in the FAC etc, etc).

These days, health limits me to the Grandstand lower tier but even if I was fit I wouldn't want to jump around like an idiot (although I would still be active with the CSF ), I have grown up now.......I've done all that before.

I want BCFC to progress and I trust SLs vision of AV and our future if it comes off (yes his managerial appointments may have been dodgy at times but) he knows how to make cash.....that is what his business does.

New stadiums have been proved to make more cash than older stadiums, Arsenal, Reading, Manchester City, Swansea City, Stoke City, Sunderland, Wigan Athletic, Southampton, Brighton & HA, Middlesbrough, Leicester City, Hull City, Derby County, Bolton Wanderers, Cardiff City are all bringing in HUGE profits up to what they were at their old grounds.

Yes there are clubs that have redeveloped their grounds (Norwich, Tottenham, Chelski) but they have limited capacity and 2 of those 3 are looking for new stadium sites.....that says it all.

BCAGFC

Bolton, Middlesbrough and Sunderland make huge losses, or have at their new stadia. Stoke faced bankruptcy untill they were bought out. Leicester and Southampton nearly went out of business. Wigan exist at the level they do because of the largesse of their owner. Manchester City's expenditure on players is not serviced by their stadium. Cardiff had to be rescued by a ludicrous re-branding Malayasian ... Some of your examples are hardly models of excellence, and your points about actual and real profits shaky.

[BCFC_Dan]

Bolton, Middlesbrough and Sunderland make huge losses, or have at their new stadia. Stoke faced bankruptcy untill they were bought out. Leicester and Southampton nearly went out of business. Wigan exist at the level they do because of the largesse of their owner. Manchester City's expenditure on players is not serviced by their stadium. Cardiff had to be rescued by a ludicrous re-branding Malayasian ... Some of your examples are hardly models of excellence, and your points about actual and real profits shaky.

There aren't too many examples of smaller clubs being successful without building a new ground, though. Fulham are probably the best I can think of. There are also Norwich, West Brom and Wolves, though they had more scope for improving their existing grounds than we do.

There's also Portsmouth who tried to build a team before they had the infrastructure and look how that ended up.

Reading and Swansea are good examples of how to do it well. Reading invested a bit in the early days to get out of the lower leagues but have generally balanced their spending with player sales recently, whilst Swansea have achieved success without massive spending or debt. I'd question any suggestion that they could have done that as effectively without the stadium.

[BCAGFC]

Bolton, Middlesbrough and Sunderland make huge losses, or have at their new stadia. Stoke faced bankruptcy untill they were bought out. Leicester and Southampton nearly went out of business. Wigan exist at the level they do because of the largesse of their owner. Manchester City's expenditure on players is not serviced by their stadium. Cardiff had to be rescued by a ludicrous re-branding Malayasian ... Some of your examples are hardly models of excellence, and your points about actual and real profits shaky.

Perhaps I should have put INCOME instead of PROFIT, all those clubs have brought in more cash than at their old grounds, if they then spend over that amount then they have been ridicuoulsy stupid.

AG has absolutely NO potential to bring non-matchday income in, have you ever been in the Dolman EH, it's a joke, nobody would have a conference in that.....and as for executive boxes where the cash is made.........FAIL!!!

BCAGFC

[chipdawg]

I agree, we do keep older buildings, but we do have a tendency to ruin old football stadiums.

I'm not a pessimist, but i look at other football clubs around the Championship and and League 1 who are far bigger than us, have far more regular fans and have been struggling for years. They are all trying to do the same as us. Yet can't achieve it, regardless of their ground, income, players, manager etc,etc.

I really do think people are delusional if they think our income is going to improve dramatically by having the odd big Gig, or a few conferences. The initieal influx of inquistitive fans will diminish if the football is still as dire. It's like covering a pigs ear in a silk purse. You can jazz it up as much as you like, if the product on the field isn't good enough or entertaining, then people will still stay away. Then their is the cost... Trust me prices will go up.

People seem to be using this issue of the stadium as an excuse for us not to kick ahead on the pitch.

Funny when you think about it.

How would we be doing if we had won at Wembley against Hull?

We would still be at AG.

Would we bemoaning the fact that we can't survive without a new stadium?

Build a couple new stands at AG... increase capacity to 25,000-28,000. EE and Williams stand could easily do this.

Fulham seem to do ok, without losing their tradition.

I think to a certain extent everyone is arguing about ideals. The tradionalists argue that in an ideal world we'd stay at The Gate, redevelop and sustain a size realistic to our current standing. The futurists can't see a way past a shiny modern stadium and all the financial benefits that will bring as they (and our owner is amongst them) believe Bristol City can be a 'big' club in a 'big' stadium with a 'big' fanbase. In reality, there's no such thing as an ideal. As you rightly point out, while the team struggles no amount of conference facilities and additional car parking will attract the fans. But in order to sustainable fund a better team we need more income streams. I personally believe our future is away from Ashton Gate, but that's not to say that Ashton Vale is an ideal solution. Perhaps living away from Bristol makes me less sentimental to the old ground, but we need to do something off the field before the stagnation on the pitch spreads

[pongo88]

I think to a certain extent everyone is arguing about ideals. The tradionalists argue that in an ideal world we'd stay at The Gate, redevelop and sustain a size realistic to our current standing. The futurists can't see a way past a shiny modern stadium and all the financial benefits that will bring as they (and our owner is amongst them) believe Bristol City can be a 'big' club in a 'big' stadium with a 'big' fanbase. In reality, there's no such thing as an ideal. As you rightly point out, while the team struggles no amount of conference facilities and additional car parking will attract the fans. But in order to sustainable fund a better team we need more income streams. I personally believe our future is away from Ashton Gate, but that's not to say that Ashton Vale is an ideal solution. Perhaps living away from Bristol makes me less sentimental to the old ground, but we need to do something off the field before the stagnation on the pitch spreads

I must be a traditionalist and a futurist as I’d be happy with either option. The thing that kills the re-develop Ashton Gate option is money, or lack of it. Staying at Ashton Gate would lose £20m from the sale of the ground to Sainsburys and would involve spending millions to buy extra land. (If it could be bought)

Steve Lansdown has been an extremely generous man but we can’t expect him to have bottomless pockets. At the end of the day, he is the man who pays the bills, so if he says have a new ground we should be grateful.

[spudski]

I must be a traditionalist and a futurist as I’d be happy with either option. The thing that kills the re-develop Ashton Gate option is money, or lack of it. Staying at Ashton Gate would lose £20m from the sale of the ground to Sainsburys and would involve spending millions to buy extra land. (If it could be bought)

Steve Lansdown has been an extremely generous man but we can’t expect him to have bottomless pockets. At the end of the day, he is the man who pays the bills, so if he says have a new ground we should be grateful.

I disagree... I don't think it's morally right that one individual can have a say on whether we have a new ground or not.

The 'Club' and 'SL' rely on the revenue and support of the fans that follow BCFC.

If we didn't turn up... there would be no Club or Stadium.

Stay at Ashton Gate... and build a conference facility, Restaurant facilities and other Concert arena. Or let Bristol Rugby Club and Bristol Bulldogs Speedway use it. Build an ice rink or 5 a side football pitches. A snowdome... etc,etc. Then use the money from that to part finance AG and the Club.

Just putting a different perspective on things.

There is no reason you can't make money in other ways to finance the club without losing the AG site.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

I would love to relocate to AV if they put a huge 1 tier terrace at one end like Dortmund but not quite that size. We'd have to hope safe standing gets through though but if one of the best teams in Europe can have a 25,000 people standing in one stand. Make us unique to have a standing Kop again in the UK since the 80s

[spudski]

I would love to relocate to AV if they put a huge 1 tier terrace at one end like Dortmund but not quite that size. We'd have to hope safe standing gets through though but if one of the best teams in Europe can have a 25,000 people standing in one stand. Make us unique to have a standing Kop again in the UK since the 80s

It is rather special that stand...

[chalky]

Where would fans congregate before matchday when at AV? Surely coopers, rising sun and ashton park wall would be too far away?? I guess the Angel Inn would be quite busy? Living in east Bristol I can see the traffic being a lot worse than it currently is for me to get home.

[spudski]

Where would fans congregate before matchday when at AV? Surely coopers, rising sun and ashton park wall would be too far away?? I guess the Angel Inn would be quite busy? Living in east Bristol I can see the traffic being a lot worse than it currently is for me to get home.

Exactly my sentiments too. Can see most people sat in their cars waiting to park, rather than enjoying a pint in the street.

Too bleedin far to walk as far as i'm concerned from the usual haunts.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

It's not that far from AG

[chalky]

What is the specific patch of land planned for the ground? There is a large green area that goes from just south of David LLoyd all the way Long ashton cricket club and what's looks like (from ariel satellite view on google) a quarry just south of that. If just south of David LLoyd then it would be quite close and a massive shame that Ship & Castle no longer exists.

[poland_red]

When I read comments like this I wonder if some people feel any connection with our Club at all, or simply wish to sit in a big, plastic ground watching anyone as long as it's the PL. It's not a shithole, it's our home. Yes it has some 'outdated' tendancies, but that gives it character. Of the many away grounds I've been too my favourite's are the more traditional grounds such as Molineux and Bramall Lane, hell I'd take Oakwell over the Ricoh every day of the week. Old grounds with character appear to be a dying breed, enjoy them while you still can before every game is held at a Madjeski clone.

spot on