Your Views - Response

Dave L · January 3, 2013

This has been a very constructive thread, which has been read by staff, board and fans alike.

There are some common themes emerging, so rather than answer each post individually, I’ve attempted to put them into common groups. If by the time you get to the end of this (if you do – I warn you it’s a long read), and you think I haven’t answered your specific point, please come back to me.

Tomarse’s post number 186 provides an excellent summary of where we are:

If you wanted to pinpoint a time I'd say we've never quite recovered from the Coppell disaster and perhaps even before that to the point when GJ left. At that point we had a very public chairman and manager. A manager who was well received in the national media and perhaps made us proud to be City fans.

Since then the club has seemingly stagnated - we've been in 3 relegation battles now, we've had 3 managers in 3 years. We've got nowhere on the stadium front (granted no fault of the club but it doesn't help the general feel around the place) and we've lost our two most vocal/public facing board members in Steve & Colin. Chuck in 3 horrible summers, a global recession and the general feel around the club is the worst I can recall in my 20 odd years of watching the club and that includes the Pulis era.

Now let’s look at some of the common themes:

No affinity with the players.

This was a commonly expressed view throughout the thread. It’s a football-wide issue that’s not unique to Bristol City, and it’s something that we are trying to address.

Clearly, better performances on the pitch would help, but I think it goes further than that. Our players – like players at other clubs – are very well paid, and supporters who struggle to make ends meet have every right to feel short-changed after some of our recent home performances. It’s the manager’s job to get those players performing at the best of their ability, and Derek and his staff will continue to do everything they can to get things right on the pitch.

Those of us who work on the non-football side of things at City have absolutely no control over what happens once the referee blows his whistle, but there are things we can do off the pitch to try and make fans feel closer to the players.

The Bristol City Community Trust, which is an independent charity, was set up with this in mind. ‘Crusader’ in post number 13 makes some points about the work Shaun Parker used to do well over ten years ago. It’s worth pointing out that all of the things that he cites are being done now, and more besides – in fact, this year they have worked with 50,000 young people through a range of participation, health, social inclusion and educational programmes. Since being set up a year and a half ago, the Trust has doubled its activities in the local and regional area. Senior and Academy players have helped out at coaching sessions and visited local club presentation nights. In total last season we had circa 150 ‘player appearances’. We’ve already surpassed that this season, and the figure continues to grow.

Before Christmas they also visited the Children’s Hospice and the Children’s Hospital, and Bristol City players are attending community and educational events most days of every week. The Community Park has also been a huge success, and injured / non-squad players now routinely visit this at every game.

In reply to post 137 from ‘blockbrowt1’ – that’s why we closed the Hirerite shed for parking, and although I appreciate that has caused you some inconvenience, would you agree that providing a pre-match meeting point for hundreds of fans of the future and their families is a better use of that space?

It’s worth going to www.bristolcitycommunitytrust.org for full details of what we are currently doing in the community, and the involvement of the players. Spend ten minutes exploring the site and you will see not only the breadth of work currently being carried out, but their ambitious plans for the future.

To summarise (not limited to):

The Trust has seen the arrival of seven new staff members who have each made a fantastic contribution to furthering the reach of our community work. Our coaches are delivering high-quality, fun, safe football sessions to children in schools and community settings.

We have set up five development centres across the city and are confident we are enabling the Academy to identify players with potential. We have created a full-time education programme where 16-19 year olds can study BTEC and NVQ courses at Ashton Gate, as well as playing for City against other Championship sides.

We have 55 young people enrolled on these programmes and all of them are giving up their time to volunteer in Trust and community activities. We have received national recognition for our social inclusion programme ‘On-Target’, which uses the inspirational power of sport to raise aspirations, improve school attendance and reduce first-time entry into the criminal justice system. We have proved this programme can have a significant impact in the communities that we serve and have attracted investment to sustain this scheme for the next three years.

Our coach education programme has helped to raise standards in grassroots coaching with over 150 local people undertaking FA level one and two courses with us.

Whilst we are happy with the progress against our development plan, we recognise there is still a lot to be done. We are confident that with the support of the community and fanbase, 2013 will be a monumental year for the Trust and our work in the community.

Of course, this won’t happen overnight, but the Trust was set up because of a genuine realisation that we weren’t doing enough in the community and that we needed to do more. It’s work in progress, but progress is being made. All players at the club – and new ones coming in – are being made fully aware of their responsibilities to the fans and the community.

Some people mention the gates behind the Atyeo Stand which are locked before the game. This is something we need to look at again.

The East End / Stewarding

This always has, and always will be, an emotive subject.

Cast your minds back to 2002. The East End was closed, and a body of fans embarked on a campaign to get it re-opened. Little by little, this happened, but restrictions on access were still in place, and this understandably created some bad feeling.

Over a period of time, thanks to the hard work of people like Sean Takle, Stuart Rogers and many others, as well as support from those of us who work at City, we have now arrived at a situation where the East End is open to all. Season ticket holders in there enjoy the cheapest season ticket in the Championship – it’s even cheaper than a ticket to watch the Gas.

We have actively supported and encouraged fan-led initiatives such as the graffiti art, flags, surfer flags etc. I cannot remember the last time we were approached by anyone with an idea to create some atmosphere in the East End that we turned down. If you can think of one, please let me know. We are hugely appreciative of the support that the East End brings when in full flow.

But if people stand on seats, they will be asked to get off them. If they stand in gangways, blocking fire exits, they will be asked to move. Supporters in the East End have campaigned long and hard to be treated like fans in all the other stands, so they can hardly complain when they are. But how this is done is clearly an issue.

There are several general criticisms of the stewarding in the East End. If anybody has any specific allegations about a particular steward, then let me know, and I promise it will be investigated thoroughly. I have received, by e-mail, a complaint about a specific stewarding issue at the Peterborough game, and I have promised that I will follow it up. There are usually two sides to every story and it’s important that we hear both.

The fact that there are currently no flags on display in the East End is because supporters have decided to stop displaying them. You are welcome to display flags wherever you want, providing they don’t cover advertising. As I have also made clear previously, you are free to surf the large flag before games or at half-time and we will actively support you in doing this. The decision not to surf is another that has been made by supporters.

I have repeatedly said, and will say again now, that I am more than happy to meet with fans from the East End either individually or in groups at the pub of your choice, or even at your house, at a time of your choosing, to discuss anything you want. I have made this offer several times before, both in my blog and on this forum, and repeat it now. I really believe that if we all sit down and talk about these issues it will be easier for us to find common ground. We won’t find that via internet postings and blogs. I will be getting in touch with activists in the East End to discuss a suitable time and date.

I was impressed with posts from Cider Head and Frome Valley showing what Crystal Palace are doing at Selhurst Park. There was a time last year when I thought we were heading in that direction too, but we seem to have gone off the rails somehow.

The PA system has clearly seen better days and needs replacing. I don’t know why home fans were not allowed behind the goal for the Peterborough game. I will find out.

I am very busy on a matchday meeting with supporters around the ground. I don’t usually get to the East End before a game as most fans tend to turn up quite late, by which time I am busy elsewhere. I think it’s important that I rearrange my schedule so that I watch a whole game from in there, and meet with fans beforehand, and I will.

In the meantime, Kevin Smith and I will be travelling up on one of the supporters coaches to Blackburn on Saturday and watching the game with City fans. Come and say hello.

A faceless board

For many years we were very fortunate to have Steve Lansdown and Colin Sexstone as media-friendly figureheads at City. It was great to see Steve on the pitch at the Peterborough game, and that served as a reminder that fans like to feel there is someone out there who sees the bigger picture.

Steve is also in discussions with the Supporters Trust about doing another of his ‘Ask the Owner’ sessions at a forthcoming away game. But we do recognise that general communication at board level is an issue that needs addressing, and it will be.

Our current chairman, Keith Dawe, has said that he doesn’t see his job as a ‘personality’ role. As a lifetime fan of the club, Jon Lansdown does recognise that fans have a right to be kept in the loop. He recently did an interview on BCFC Player which was well received, and both he and Keith spoke very honestly and passionately at the recent Supporters Meeting (which was advertised three weeks in advance by the way, not ‘a couple of days’).

The Glazers (Man Utd) and Roman Abramovich (Chelsea) are rarely heard from (if ever!), whilst the likes of Ken Bates (formerly Leeds) and Dave Whelan (Wigan) are happy to give an opinion about every decision in football at any time of day. I think it’s important we find equilibrium whereby we’re able to offer a connection via communication with the board on a basis that suits everyone.

No plan or vision / where is the club going? / what’s happening with the stadium?

A great post from Timbo 7:

It should not be overlooked that much (if not all) of the current dissatisfaction stems from years of under-performance on the park. It is easy to love the players and the manager when they are confident, fighting for everything and delivering positive progress - in these circumstances much of what was wrong with the club could be overlooked. In my experience, every time our team (and probably everyone else's team) goes through a long period of failure, confidence and self-belief drain away and players seem to shirk responsibility - plainly this creates a vicious circle and seems to indicate lack of passion, caring and to some extent talent. You don't need to spend long on here to see how difficult many find it to love the players when this starts to happen. GIVE US A BELIEVABLE PLAN - WARTS AND ALL - AND I FOR ONE WILL BACK IT - WE ARE ONLY GOING SOUTH UNTIL WE FIND ONE

People clearly feel that they don’t know what the plan for the club is any more. The stadium isn’t being discussed, no-one knows where the club is heading, is Steve Lansdown still committed?

Hopefully Steve will have demonstrated his commitment to City by what he said at the Peterborough game.

Although it may not have seemed like it, there have been a lot of very positive things happening behind the scenes recently. All I can say at this stage is that there is a plan, and we will be discussing it with supporters when the time is right. Expect some important developments in the months to come.

Club trying to fleece the fans / only after us for our money

Like it or not, City has to be run as a business. A business that lost £14 million last year. We had to take action in order to stem the appalling losses and to turn the club round financially in the light of the new Financial Fair Play regulations. Our plans for the next few years are very much driven by the need to do this.

If we were to charge the actual cost of a ticket (operating costs divided by attendance) we would have to charge over £80 a game to every man, woman and child coming to Ashton Gate. In order to keep ticket prices down, we have to find other sources of revenue. Shirt and other sponsorship, stadium advertising, etc, are therefore absolutely vital.

Clearly, in doing this, we must make sure that we don’t lose our soul, or ever forget that our supporters are the lifeblood of our club. We couldn’t exist without you. But supporters must also understand that we have to look at every possible source of revenue and keep our costs to a minimum.

I believe our tickets are fairly priced and offer good value, particularly if you are a season ticket holder or buy in advance. I do think we need to look again at the 16 – 21 age group and at student prices for next season, and we will.

Your ticket is actually the only thing you need to pay for to actively support City. Everything else: food, beer, programme, shirts etc is an add-on, and it’s up to us to make sure that what we offer is fairly priced and gives value for money. You have every right to vote with your wallets if we don’t make sure prices for the ‘extras’ are fair.

The vouchers for season ticket holders have been seen as being poor value and unnecessarily inflexible by some. Although it was the intention to give fans extra value as part of a complete package, we clearly haven’t been successful, and will look at this again next season.

Catering

When I first started in my job, I had two main objectives. One was to support those campaigning for full access to the East End and to make that happen. I think that has been achieved, although clearly some issues still remain. The other one was to improve the level, quality and affordability of the catering at Ashton Gate. This thread confirms my view that in that time little has changed. It is my own personal view that it’s about time something did, and I will do my best to get that message across.

Dolman Bar / bookies / TVs

Several people commented on the reduced quality of the facilities inside the Dolman bar. With the internal re-organisation at the club over the summer, a lot of things which were due to happen were delayed, and this led to a lack of accountability for making sure that certain things – like working TVs – actually happened.

For too long we have used the excuse of impending relocation as justification for not spending money on refurbishing basic facilities around the ground, and this season has proved a tipping point, particularly in the DEH. Following a review, we have just installed a new Sky dish and fixed some of the cabling faults that were affecting the sound in there. Hopefully you should start to see an improvement.

Winning Post didn’t want to continue to offer bookmaking services around the ground, including the DEH, as they couldn’t make it commercially viable thanks in the main to the increase in online betting over mobile phones. They wanted to half the amount of rental they paid us for providing the service. We offered a compromise which would still have meant that we were getting paid less than last season, but they didn’t feel able to pay this. As was made clear at the Fans Parliament, at no point did we ask for an increase in rental charges from Winning Post. We are still looking at finding another bookmaker to take up the franchise, and we are also looking at improving the wi-fi around the whole stadium to make it easier for people to bet online.

Any suggestions about how we could radically change the atmosphere and the offering in the DEH would be very welcome. Whenever I’ve been in there before games this season it’s felt quite dead.

I will speak to our two ‘Dolman Stand’ Fans Parliament members about this.

Website / media department

I think that the poor quality of the website has been a major contribution to the information gap that fans have experienced – certainly complaints have arisen since we reluctantly launched in October (one of the last two clubs to switch over).

Virtually everyone – including those who have to operate it – agree that the new website is very poor. It’s gone from something that won four awards a few years ago to something that is barely fit for purpose. Unfortunately we are locked into a contract with Football league Interactive until 2017 and have to make the best of it. To come out of that contract early would cost a sum running into several million pounds, which is clearly not financially viable.

Our head of communications, Adam Baker, has been on a working party with other football league clubs to work on fixing bugs and improving the site, and it is slowly getting better. But it is still a million miles away from where we would ideally like it to be, and is a source of huge frustration to everyone at City.

People refer to the ‘decimation’ of the media department following the departure of one person in the summer, but he’s actually been replaced. We have Mark Perrow, who was with us last season, and Connor Dicks - originally brought in as an unpaid intern, but is now an employee – working at the club.

The content on the website is the same as before, but unfortunately the system we have to work with does not allow it to be presented as is needed (ie. accessibility and usability).

With regards to Player, we continue to produce extended highlights internally, over and above the basic highlights package supplied centrally, to enhance the offering to subscribers. To those requesting that we make all interviews and highlights free-to-air to supporters, or at least season ticket holders, that is not a possibility under the terms of the FLi contract.

With regards to commentary issues. There has been one game from the 26 played where centrally the log-in system failed, preventing supporters who had attempted to sign in after 3pm from accessing commentary. We do have an ongoing issue (network-wide) whereby the ‘delay’ in commentary is at an unacceptable level. There has always been a minor delay on online commentary (expected when it runs from an ISDN line at the stadium, back to BBC on Whiteladies Rd, down the line to Perform Group in Feltham, then pushed out via their servers). However, the inclusion of a new pause and rewind function seems to have had an effect on the ‘lag time’. This has been communicated to Perform Group and is being investigated.

DL Q and A

Some supporters have asked if there could be a regular Q and A session on here, in the vein of the Ask Steve L / Ask Colin S which we had some years ago.

I would remind you of what happened with the original Q and A forum.

At first the vast majority of the questions were reasoned and constructive, and were answered in kind by Steve and Colin. But gradually, more and more people stopped asking questions and just used it as an excuse to have a rant, particularly after a defeat (‘sack the manager’, ‘sack the board’, ‘resign’ etc), then got even angrier when their rants didn’t get a response. Steve and Colin were on a hiding to nothing. They could never reply in kind to the random abuse they were getting without being accused of having a go at supporters, so what started off as a constructive and useful exchange of information went the way of most internet debates and descended into name calling until it ceased to be tenable and was pulled.

I already have a regular column in the programme where I respond to fan’s questions and complaints. I am also happy to answer any other questions that anyone has by e-mail.

The club has disengaged with its core supporters, and occupies nearly a siege mentality against fans groups

I can see the logic behind the first part of that statement, as I suspect it refers to some supporters in the East End, which I have dealt with elsewhere. But I would disagree that we have a siege mentality against fans groups.

I hold regular meetings with the Supporters Club and Trust. I attend all of their monthly meetings, and speak to Stuart Rogers on a regular basis on any items of concern.

Last year we set up the Fans Parliament – a bringing together of all of the fans groups: Supporters Club and Trust, Senior Reds, Disabled Supporters Association, Under-21s, Premier Club, City Foundation, Fanzines, and representatives from all of the stands: Williams, Dolman, Atyeo and Wedlock.

Our first meeting was constructive and led to a lot of issues being raised, most of which have been addressed. You can see minutes here.

The issues raised in this thread will be taken to the next Fans Parliament on the February 6^th and used as a basis for discussion. We will ask delegates to come up with suggestions as to how we can improve things. You can see a full list of the delegates here. Please get in touch with one of them if you would like your point of view represented.

Consultation on shirt

Some supporters don’t like this year’s shirt, and would like more consultation. Because of the nature of our deal with Adidas and the time it takes to pre-order, next season’s home shirt has already been chosen (red and white - no black). I think it’s reasonable that fans should have some input into future shirt designs though, and that’s something we will be bringing to the Fans Parliament next time we have to make a choice. That used to happen in the early days of the Fans Consultative Forum and I think we should start doing it again.

Customer service / friendly welcome / fan engagement

Bcfcsouth suggests: Ban all phones and mp3 players from the turnstile staff, teach them some customer service skills. A simple, thank you sir/madam I hope you enjoy the game. Isn't hard is it, I see the same people game after game but have never heard half of them speak. When I pass my season ticket to the checkers in the Eastend, it's not "thank you", it's a simply handed back to me to assume I can go into the ground.

An eminently sensible series of suggestions. It’s basic customer service, and we need to work harder at it. We have recently introduced some fans ambassadors - volunteers who meet and greet fans before the game and help them with any queries they may have. They have been a huge success, and I would like to see more of them around the ground. In the meantime we must make sure that all of our staff follow basic rules of courtesy and friendliness.

Without suggesting that we are perfect, I would point out that at last year’s Football League Family Excellence Awards we won the award for friendliest staff in the entire football league. Any member of staff who doesn’t live up to that standard needs to be reminded of what our expectations are.

Several fans also refer to the ‘good old days’ of Beryl Fudge. I never worked with Beryl, but she helped me out several times when I had ticket problems as a supporter before I worked at Ashton Gate. I still remember the very moving minute’s silence when she passed away.

But without in any way tarnishing Beryl’s memory, we have many people at Ashton Gate now who offer excellent customer service. We get consistently good feedback from fans who have had dealings with our Supporter Services team. They are all massive City fans who between them have racked up many, many years at Ashton Gate.

Sometimes we get it wrong, as we all do, as in the case that Frenchred highlighted. But when we do, we aim to apologise as quickly as possible and rectify the problem.

Unfortunately one widely-reported small mistake can undo the hundreds of good things that we do that go unnoticed. So we should try even harder not to make those mistakes in the first place!

Individual issues:

Reading Tom: Post number 146. I will need to look into this further, but on the face of it he does seem to have had a rough deal.

Rich: Post number153. I forwarded a very supportive e-mail from him to Guy Price, but he has had no reply. In Guy’s defence, he has had a rough time of it recently. His house was flooded a couple of weeks ago and he and his family have had to move out for nine months, so his attention may have been elsewhere. I will remind him and I am sure he will be in touch.

Paulcitymod Post number 227: Paul contacted me over an issue some months ago, and although I said I would look into it, I never got back to him. Many apologies – that slipped through the net, but it shouldn’t have happened. I will respond asap.

Threshing Red Post number 297: Why is the middle exit closed in the east end at the end of the game? It is causing a bottleneck with everyone leaving the side entrance/exit merging with the dolman fans. I’m not sure why this is the case, but I will find out and let you now.

Phantom Post number 313 plus others: A car driven through fans just after the full-time whistle, could have caused an accident. We have been considering making that entrance to the ground fully-pedestrianised at certain time just before and after the game. Incidents such as this suggest we should hasten this process. We have a plan and we aim to implement this as soon as possible.

Supporter on the Board

Nick J and others wonder what the criteria might be for getting a supporter on the board of directors.

The board currently consists of three members: Keith Dawe, Jon Lansdown and Doug Harman. They report to Steve Lansdown as principal shareholder, and make their decisions based on input from the management team of Kevin Smith (Commercial Director), Guy Price (Operations Director), Maria Townsend (Financial Director) Adam Baker (Head of Communications) and Amy Kington (Community Trust Director). I will also feed in fans views on important issues. Kevin, Amy, Jon, Adam and Guy will also attend the Fans Parliament as required.

If we get this structure right – and we haven’t yet – then I would be surprised if Steve and the board would find it necessary to invite a supporter to attend board meetings.

My role and how well I am doing

In a job like mine, I am never going to keep everyone happy, so all I can do is to keep on doing what I believe is right, and at the moment the vast majority of the feedback that I get from supporters suggests that I am getting things more right than wrong. One anonymous fan suggested that I am ‘a **** and just a puppet for the ****s that run this club”. Another widow of one of our fans invited me to speak at her husband’s funeral after I gave him and their son a farewell tour of Ashton Gate just days before he died of cancer. It takes all sorts.

I will always try and respond as honestly and openly as I can, admit it when I get things wrong and try and make sure I don’t make the same mistakes again.

Ultimately it’s the people who employ me who are best placed to decide whether or not I am doing a good job. As long as I enjoy their confidence, and that of the majority of our fans, I will continue to serve our club as best as I can.

In Summary

Things that will improve things and bridge the gap:

· Win more games

· A closer relationship and two-way dialogue with core fans in the East End

· Better catering

· Friendlier staff and stewards

· Better communication

The first of those is a variable that we can’t always control. The other four are entirely within our own control and we need to work with supporters to achieve them.

I welcome your comments and constructive suggestions as to what, specifically, we can do.

We will also put this out to consultation with the Fans Parliament. We hope that will become a significant focal point for fan input.

Dave

**Super** · January 3, 2013

Thanks for this Dave.

TRL · January 3, 2013

Some points considered, some completely brushed over, and some very strange excuses, I.e cannot respond because of a flood at home. Bad luck to him, but doesn't stop him working from the club and answering emails, like anyone else, you still go to work.

Got to say I was expecting more, seems like a lot of back slapping of what the club has done well and agreeing with the fans when it is not in the clubs control, I.e web site.

Bit disappointed with some of the feedback here dave. All a little wishy washy. But if that is how the club sees it, then I guess that is what us as fans have to work with. Looks like you are making stuff up without consulting the board, look at what you wrote about a fan on the board. "I would be surprised if. ......" suggests to me that this hasn't even been discussed. Would it have not been better if you came back when you knew more, rather than second guess Steve.

Whole thing raises more questions than answers. Thanks for the reply though, you clearly have been through it bit by bit. Lets hope some change for the better can come from it.

SnozRobin · January 3, 2013

Can't ask for any more than that and impossible to keep everyone happy. Only way to properly turn things around is to start winning!

GodEmperor Palpatine · January 3, 2013

Good read and some good points, the supporter on the board coud be an excellent idea though. I'm sure that Rangers do this now or are welcoming the idea, so information can be relayed to the rest of the fans to know whats going on at the top level or where the club is heading etc. Also it can be used as a 2 way street where fans can voice concerns to that particular supporter for the Board to act or to listen and respond but obviously must be sensible concerns for it to work and to be taken seriously.

City fan 1982 · January 3, 2013

thanks dave, a fairly good summary, but when you look at ticket prices for the 16 - 21 age group could you also look at the under 16s prices , last season i took my lad to watch city v leeds and a seat in the dolman for a 6 year old was £14 seems a bit steep !!! a poster somewhere amongst the thread came up with a suggestion of paying your age up to age 16 . the club really do need to get more kids, students at the gate at a reasonable price and people will develop the habbit of attending matches more often . i appreciate the club have cheap deals sporadically ,however we need them to keep coming back !!!

Dave L · January 3, 2013

Hi Kivsy. This season that seat would have cost you £7 if bought in advance and for some games as little as £3.

stroudy · January 3, 2013

Mixed view on some of the points, glad somethings will happen.

Couple of points. The direction of the club is answered with look out for big things in the coming months - why cant options not be listed i.e. We are looking at......

The whole point in this thread is communication issues between club and fan and this would have been a good point to address some of those rather than saying wait a few months.

I can only speak for myself but i dont mind being giving options and then the club not being able to do some of them, thats life but i do find it beneficial knowing what we are looking at, it breds excitment and a feeling of a positive future and engagement with the main source of revenue...us. Surely what every fan wants?

You also state the kit design is already choosen, why cant we see it now?

Its great that your looking at things and that improvements will be made but i feel it would have been great to have a bit more detail as i have outlined.

This again isnt a rant just observations.

I will just say I have met Dave a few times and he has helped me on a couple of occasions and i am more than happy for him to occupy his role.

Pete

Dave L · January 3, 2013

Looks like you are making stuff up without consulting the board, look at what you wrote about a fan on the board. "I would be surprised if. ......" suggests to me that this hasn't even been discussed. Would it have not been better if you came back when you knew more, rather than second guess Steve. .

I wouldn't dream of second guessing Steve! I spent an hour on the phone with him yesterday discussing every aspect of my post. All of the senior management team and the board have also seen it.

SecretSam · January 3, 2013

Thanks for a reasoned and detailed response - and for your honesty, eg regarding the catering situation (on which I can't comment, as I've never eaten anything at a football ground apart from Wembley Stadium) and particularly the website.

The club is at a challenging point in its history, underperforming on the pitch whilst suffering financial travails off it, with the stadium a further distraction - that's a lot for the Board to handle, so understand the lack of visibility but it does need to be improved.

And the "plan" needs to come soon and needs to be real, have S.M.A.R.T. objectives and yet be accessible and acceptable to the fans. It needs to detail how we get out of the current mess (short term), how we will build for the future (medium and long term), and how the new stadium ties into this, along with the FFP plans - I work with NHS Trusts who are moving to Foundation Status and they will, for example, show how their plans will move them from financial position "X" to position "Y", and by when.

Plus, I think an honest assessment of how likely Ashton Vale is to go forward, and whether there is a 'plan B', and if this involves Ashton Gate.

Thanks for your time.

January 3, 2013

So there is unrestricted access to the East End for any City fan up to and including any match day?

and there are no "must dos" regarding surfing the flag? I also find it hard to understand why City fans arent behind the goal even when only a few hundred away fans turn up?

As for the rest there is nothing that I didnt know already and certainly no movement towards fans hopes/wishes; dissapointed but not unexpected.

Who pays the Ferryman as the song goes.

TRL · January 3, 2013

I wouldn't dream of second guessing Steve! I spent an hour on the phone with him yesterday discussing every aspect of my post. All of the senior management team and the board have also seen it.

Maybe it was the way you wrote it then Dave, it gives that impression that you were guessing Steve's intentions rather knowing if he was going to accept fans on board or not. I wan't trying to intimate you were lyig by the way, I could have probably worded my response better as well

Chivs · January 3, 2013

Dave,

Thanks for this analysis - I think you cover the main points well.

I do though query both the "No affinity with players" and "Faceless board" responses.

You reference the Bristol City Community Trust as a means of players engaging with the community. You mention 150 visits last season. Why is it then that this issue was raised so many times? I recall the hospital visit being on the website (and thought "that's great"!) but when are the other visits ever referred to? The Trust itself has this Mission "A Trust based at the heart of its community". I want the club to be at the heart of the community with a Trust as part of that!! So, a suggestion for the club:

Communicate the visits more widely. I've just looked at the two previous matchday programmes. Whilst the Boxing Day one mentions over 200 players visits it doesn't say where, by whom, when!!!
The Trust website is barely visible (there's a link tucked away) from the main website. Sort this out. It's not hard.
Write into the players contract that they must visit one each of local hospital, local school and local function (football awards etc) every year they are contracted. If they (or their agent) won't accept this then we don't want them as BCFC players
Have a City stalwart (Carey, Skuse, Murray etc) take any new recruits to their first visit. They should do this soon after they join whether they are on loan or not. Educate the players that they are now part of the Bristol City family
Insist that the players applaud the fans at all home and away games
Do the players ever pick up City fans in their expensive cars? Silly idea..well, it's the little things that matter and these people should all be going to the same destination on a Saturday (well, the fans could be dropped off at the pub....)
Educate the players that they should not be using Twitter to the general public with self-aggrandising statements. Point out that some of us do not have expensive cars and actually care about the club from a personal perspective

It isn't acceptable that Keith Dawe thinks the chairmanship is not a "personality" role. If we want a housekeeper we should employ a housekeeper and call him so. At the very least:

Ensure that Keith writes a column in the matchday programme (guess what, it doesn't actually have to be Keith if he isn't very good with words!)
Ensure the website has a regular interview with Keith setting out goals, progress to date etc. (guess what,....)

Thanks for your response above but I can't help after reading it that much is going to change. I think you should be itemising the proposed actions as above and setting timescales for their successful completion. An issue such as this deserves a plan!

Lammers · January 3, 2013

Fair Play Dave, nice comments. But with this forum no matter how much effort is put in, it would never be enough..

My personal view in this is its nice that a response has been promised and adhered to.

IF one or two E.mails are missed because a staff members personal situation is a bit chaotic, well guess what that happens.

To live up to the perfect standards and work ethics of SOME on here must be the impossible dream.

Have the people who complain and rant never forgotten to send a letter, email or make a phone call. If they can honestly say they never have let anyone down. ever, then fairplay, but i doubt it, if there honest.

i know i have,

Problem is football unlike any other form of "Entertainment" has a tendency to become owned by the fans, supporters, customers.

A bit like a fanatic music fan almost an unhealthy obsession.

Oh and TRL, in response to : look at what you wrote about a fan on the board. "I would be surprised if. ......" suggests to me that this hasn't even been discussed. Would it have not been better if you came back when you knew more, rather than second guess Steve.

Suggest to me, that you dont know if it has been discussed, would it not be better if you came back when you knew more, rather than second guess Dave...
No i dont work for the club, i have never met Dave, But i do love this club, I travelled nearly 5hrs from the darkest edge of lincolnshire eastcoast just for a meeting for the chance to do caricatures for the clubs programme, unpaid work, paid for a mates fuel and digs in Bristol so i could attend.

I got the gig.... WooHoo did i care it was unpaid, No i got to do something for and with the club.

I Personally appreciate the feedback and will wait to see what arises, But if some and i know alot do, but if some fans put as much time in getting involved, following and supporting as they do on here, well who knows what we could be.

I so wish i lived back in Bristol just to have the chance to be involved.

**stevep38** · January 3, 2013

Dave,

Thanks for this analysis - I think you cover the main points well.

I do though query both the "No affinity with players" and "Faceless board" responses.

You reference the Bristol City Community Trust as a means of players engaging with the community. You mention 150 visits last season. Why is it then that this issue was raised so many times? I recall the hospital visit being on the website (and thought "that's great"!) but when are the other visits ever referred to? The Trust itself has this Mission "A Trust based at the heart of its community". I want the club to be at the heart of the community with a Trust as part of that!! So, a suggestion for the club:

Communicate the visits more widely. I've just looked at the two previous matchday programmes. Whilst the Boxing Day one mentions over 200 players visits it doesn't say where, by whom, when!!!

The Trust website is barely visible (there's a link tucked away) from the main website. Sort this out. It's not hard.

Write into the players contract that they must visit one each of local hospital, local school and local function (football awards etc) every year they are contracted. If they (or their agent) won't accept this then we don't want them as BCFC players

Have a City stalwart (Carey, Skuse, Murray etc) take any new recruits to their first visit. They should do this soon after they join whether they are on loan or not. Educate the players that they are now part of the Bristol City family

Insist that the players applaud the fans at all home and away games

Do the players ever pick up City fans in their expensive cars? Silly idea..well, it's the little things that matter and these people should all be going to the same destination on a Saturday (well, the fans could be dropped off at the pub....)
Educate the players that they should not be using Twitter to the general public with self-aggrandising statements. Point out that some of us do not have expensive cars and actually care about the club from a personal perspective

It isn't acceptable that Keith Dawe thinks the chairmanship is not a "personality" role. If we want a housekeeper we should employ a housekeeper and call him so. At the very least:

Ensure that Keith writes a column in the matchday programme (guess what, it doesn't actually have to be Keith if he isn't very good with words!)

Ensure the website has a regular interview with Keith setting out goals, progress to date etc. (guess what,....)

Thanks for your response above but I can't help after reading it that much is going to change. I think you should be itemising the proposed actions as above and setting timescales for their successful completion. An issue such as this deserves a plan!

I remember when i was a young un, a certain Kevin Mabbutt picked me up when i was running over they flyover on my way home from a reserve match. It was peeing down and he recogised me as id asked for his autograph after the match had finished. He went out of his way to take me back to Shirehampton. made my day that did. wonder if any of the current players would fo that.

ReadingTom · January 3, 2013

Thanks for agreeing I was harshly treated having to vacate my Premier Seats which I had held since the Premier Club started as not being a Corporate they were considered too good for me!

TRL · January 3, 2013

Fair Play Dave, nice comments. But with this forum no matter how much effort is put in, it would never be enough..

My personal view in this is its nice that a response has been promised and adhered to.

IF one or two E.mails are missed because a staff members personal situation is a bit chaotic, well guess what that happens.

To live up to the perfect standards and work ethics of SOME on here must be the impossible dream.

Have the people who complain and rant never forgotten to send a letter, email or make a phone call. If they can honestly say they never have let anyone down. ever, then fairplay, but i doubt it, if there honest.

i know i have,

Problem is football unlike any other form of "Entertainment" has a tendency to become owned by the fans, supporters, customers.

A bit like a fanatic music fan almost an unhealthy obsession.

Oh and TRL, in response to : look at what you wrote about a fan on the board. "I would be surprised if. ......" suggests to me that this hasn't even been discussed. Would it have not been better if you came back when you knew more, rather than second guess Steve.

Suggest to me, that you dont know if it has been discussed, would it not be better if you came back when you knew more, rather than second guess Dave...
No i dont work for the club, i have never met Dave, But i do love this club, I travelled nearly 5hrs from the darkest edge of lincolnshire eastcoast just for a meeting for the chance to do caricatures for the clubs programme, unpaid work, paid for a mates fuel and digs in Bristol so i could attend.

I got the gig.... WooHoo did i care it was unpaid, No i got to do something for and with the club.

I Personally appreciate the feedback and will wait to see what arises, But if some and i know alot do, but if some fans put as much time in getting involved, following and supporting as they do on here, well who knows what we could be.

I so wish i lived back in Bristol just to have the chance to be involved.

No lammers, it was Dave that was coming back to us on concerns, after consulting with the board , as he said he was going to, but this particular question looks very much like it hasn't been answered. Simple as that, I am not going to get into a argument about it. Either the answer should have been yes, no, or we are considering it. To say then I would be surprised if Steve and the board would find it necessary to invite a supporter to attend board meetings, would suggest to me that Dave has been told it is a no go, but hiding it through wording, or he is second guessing a decision that has not been made. either way completely the wrong term of phrase when trying to answer a very searching question.

Lammers · January 3, 2013

No lammers, it was Dave that was coming back to us on concerns, after consulting with the board , as he said he was going to, but this particular question looks very much like it hasn't been answered. Simple as that, I am not going to get into a argument about it. Either the answer should have been yes, no, or we are considering it. To say then I would be surprised if Steve and the board would find it necessary to invite a supporter to attend board meetings, would suggest to me that Dave has been told it is a no go, but hiding it through wording, or he is second guessing a decision that has not been made. either way completely the wrong term of phrase when trying to answer a very searching question.

TRL, seen your earlier reply regarding the wording after i'd finished my typing, fairplay and no arg intended..

**Slacker** · January 3, 2013

With all due respect,how many of us would like to pick up people we had never met before and have them in our car.Apart from the fact that some people find new people awkward to talk to there are some strange people about.After the abuse Morris Fonts Skuse Elliot Wooly etc get on this forum do you think they want fans they don't know in their car?

**stevep38** · January 3, 2013

Thats true slacker, but i was only bout 13 or 14 at the time and as i said i thought it was great that Kevin Mabbutt bothered. he didnt know me but back then things were differant or seemed to be

**Slacker** · January 3, 2013

I totally agree your point Steve.Would be great to see that happening still.Sadly I think in these days of poisonous social networking where players are so open to abuse be it deserved or not,players attitudes to fans must be a lot different these days.Once players were adored,now they are constantly slated for having nice cars.

SecretSam · January 3, 2013

Thats true slacker, but i was only bout 13 or 14 at the time and as i said i thought it was great that Kevin Mabbutt bothered. he didnt know me but back then things were differant or seemed to be

Plus Mabbutt always struck me as "a nice lad" (I've met him)

newboy · January 3, 2013

> Although it may not have seemed like it, there have been a lot of very positive things happening behind the scenes recently. All I can say at this stage is that there is a plan, and we will be discussing it with supporters when the time is right. Expect some important developments in the months to come.

Is that it?

That's a fob off that is insulting to our intelligence. Like it or not, after 3 years of broken promises when selling season tickets ("we're aiming for promotion" is thrown to us every year) the board has a lot of explaining to do re: the underperformance at all levels.

The board need to provide some evidence of a plan or they can be very readily accused of being incompetent. It's bad that the club is in a crap situation of the board and management's making, but to not then communicate a credible rescue plan when consumer confidence is low could be classed as inept or as arrogant as you can get.

There are some very simple questions that you and board seem incapable of answering, or do not want to answer. Giving us a vague mention of "positive things" and "when the time is right" is of no use to us whatsoever and to think that it is severely underestimates the anger and loss of confidence we have with the club and ultimately our intelligence. If now is not the time to share your plans when our morale is sunk and confidence in the board is at an all-time low, when is?

To at least help rectify the situation, please answer the following:

- What are the positive things you allude to. Why aren't they being communicated?

- Why can't you communicate the plan now? What is stopping you from at least explaining how you're going to get out of the current mess?

- What is the broader strategy? Investment in youth? Buying in experienced managers? A director of football? A short term drop to fulfil a vision or passing football?

- What was the vision Derek sold you that made you believe in him? What targets did you set him and in what timescales? What contingency plan did you have?

You may think that we can be fobbed off with a generic meaningless response, but I'm sure it's not just me that's bloody angry right now and don't have any faith the current board. There have been a lot of mistakes over the last few years and as time goes on meaningless platitudes and "have a go" speeches need to be replaced with actual substance.

BristolCity1992 · January 3, 2013

Basically football is just a business and clubs have very little interest in standard supporters especially when it comes to sponsers and deals with companies like Adidas we will always come second.

It's why I stopped going ages ago and probably won't ever come back. There is just as much money in music which i now invest most of my time in but i feel valued and a part of something.

Perhaps most telling is my Dad who was going since the 50's isnt interested anymore. This is a national problem.

Paying even £20 for this level of football is a joke but prices will always rise while agents rule the roost. The dropping of student prices was the final straw and I wasn't even eligible anymore!

Good luck.

cider head · January 3, 2013

Dave

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Recapping with fellow Eastenders some of the points you have raised are not strictly accurate .

Eastend fan-led ideas to help create more atmosphere in the Eastend have been turned down, and there have been were on going e mails and meetings over years to discuss various topics putting up flags, use of flags on poles, use megaphones. Fans have on occasions too numerous to mention over season have found the arrangements have changed match day e.g. netting placed over seats and a wall . It has been a very slow build up and since the start City are on manager number four!!

The decrease in fans flags was not down to fans Dave. Contact was made last season regarding flag space, BCFC said this space could be used by fans, BCFC were informed that more money was to be committed , £1400 was spent, then weeks later the space was sold off for advertising. The difference in space available then and now is massive Dave.

Arrangements regarding the use of surfers at Ashton Gate and certification from pre 2000 [ similar people involved then to now] – 2007 – 2012 have changed significantly, and have changed with new safety officers [From 2007 - 2012 we spoke to four different ones]. The spontaneity has been removed and the simple act of surfing a flag a task that could take ten minutes instead of a minute. What is being required is not necessary at other clubs e.g. Oxford and Palace. [Fans groups have been contacted at these clubs].

The aim in a proposal from the ST in 2010 was to aim very high, that direction got changed. Mediocre was left and it was not the target. Fans would and have responded to the club changing the nature of the stand as was pointed out last year in May-June.

If BCFC want one or the most colourful stands in the UK it is really possible. We as a club certainly did something unique already with the mural and associated ideas. The potential goes further. What was done could be bettered. The momentum now has been totally lost and it will take some effort [months] to get it back . There is hardly a case for any more meetings … It is green light or no.

What could be done is for the commercial department to decide if the last five years of effort is worth more than an advert.

The surfer … Other clubs don’t ask for all of what we already have done.

So it's a case of - Is having a REAL crack at doing something together which is first, best or different, hopefully all three worth more than doing what every club can do?

Aizoon · January 3, 2013

Very long on good intentions, very short on concrete promises.

Dave's obviously worked hard on this, but I wonder how much will actually change as a result.

One thing will cost nothing and can be instantly implemented. Will stadium staff be more civil to fans on Saturday week, which happens to be my birthday?

kevinmabbuttshair · January 3, 2013

The East End / Stewarding

This always has, and always will be, an emotive subject.