Your Views - Response

[Aizoon]

.Nibor clearly states it is a football club, not just another business. The directors need to make clear statements, and back it up with actions clearly defining what the football club is about.

Simple question. If it was just another business, would an astute businessman like SL have touched it with a bargepole?

[Dave L]

Dave I think you do deserve praise for an attempt at tackling what is obvioulsy a very broad, and thorny topic. You have more than implied you agree with supporters on certain themes, but your aim of changing the perception of "the club" and "the fans" beinmg unified needs the movers above yourself to come out and narrate it.

Nibor clearly states it is a football club, not just another business. The directors need to make clear statements, and back it up with actions clearly defining what the football club is about.

Fair comment. I do accept that in terms of vision and specific plans my response was lacking in detail, and until the board's vision is communicated clearly I fully understand that people have very right to be cynical. All I can do is to repeat what I have already said: there is a plan, and we will be discussing it with you soon and consulting with fans fully. Sometimes it's not possible to give instant solutions, but that doesn't mean that they are not being considered.

[Mr Wendall]

Am I reading this correctly? The club made 1 member of the media department redundant and replaced them with 2? Not only does this make no business sense but I'm pretty sure it's illegal to. I think this sums up what's going on with the club, clueless people in charge and the faces of the club disappearing (not just SL but the ticket offices, members of the media department etc£

[AdamB]

Am I reading this correctly? The club made 1 member of the media department redundant and replaced them with 2? N

No, that is not correct. I think DL was probably responding to one poster who said the media team had been decimated by the departure of one individual (Jim).

Last season the club actually had a media team of three (myself, Jim and Mark Perrow); there was also a communications team, initially set up with the new stadium in mind, of two (Tom Scott, along with Ed Furniss).

From five, we were down to two (Jim, Tom and Ed departed), and we are now at 3 (myself, Mark and Connor Dicks).

Adam

[Mr Wendall]

Cool thanks for replying Bakes

[T R]

You will. Myself and Kevin Smith will be doing just this, hopefully before either the Leicester or Ipswich games. Miners and Robins were mentioned. We can either do it informally and just drop in and see who's there, or organise a specific meeting that people can come to. Discussed this with Stu Rogers today. Time to meet face to face and talk.

Thanks Dave for replying, it must be quite difficult being the middle man, can't always please both parties.

I think a lot of board members like SL and JL will be reading this to find out the reactions of the fans, hopefully they will respond and it will help them achieve their vision they have for the club.

If you are going down the Robins make sure you bring some City I.D or the doormen won't let you in! Look forward to seeing you there.

[BCFC_Mike]

IMO regarding the problem in the Eastend, we don't get treated the same as away fans.

It's not just the stewarding, it's the policing too. Last season at Leeds I was arrested for singing the song 'You dirty northern b*stards*, along with the whole stand. Whether it was to do with the policeman being Scottish, I don't know. But it's completely not on. The police sent of a banning order to the club where the head of operations gave me a ban which lasted 4 home games. To make it even more bemusing, the copper said he had cautioned me earlier in the game, which is completely untrue, I even asked the Head of Operations (Dan Ward I think it is) to check the CCTV before he gave out the ban, he completely ignored this request.

My point is, away fans get away with murder compared the home in the eastend. One hand gesture, and you're either out or it's a caution. This was seen as a source of banter a while ago. Away fans do it = Nothing.

It gets beyond a joke, especially when it's getting quite heated in the Eastend lately due to the performances we're watching on the pitch.

[Eco]

No, that is not correct. I think DL was probably responding to one poster who said the media team had been decimated by the departure of one individual (Jim).

Last season the club actually had a media team of three (myself, Jim and Mark Perrow); there was also a communications team, initially set up with the new stadium in mind, of two (Tom Scott, along with Ed Furniss).

From five, we were down to two (Jim, Tom and Ed departed), and we are now at 3 (myself, Mark and Connor Dicks).

Adam

Is there any reason the interviews with players could not be made more interesting instead of asking, and receiving back, the same platitudes every time ? Obviously there's a limit to how far you can go but it would be interesting to have say a set piece chat for 10-15 mins to go through a certain players career etc. I know Peterborough used to do that. Some of the players have been at the club 5+ seasons yet we know virtually nothing about them.

[Fiale]

Food - I mentioned in a post a while ago - is there no possibility at all of the club buying a food franchise (especially if the Rugby comes to Ashton gate as well) - run a McDonalds / Subway.... well there are dozens from the biggies to smaller names like MrCod.

Fiale

Someone mentioned Pieminster - being a regular visitor when working in Stokes Croft - would be a great shout

[Frome Valley]

Dave thanks for the effort put in..

I would like to pass comment on the following - Clearly, in doing this, we must make sure that we don’t lose our soul, or ever forget that our supporters are the lifeblood of our club. We couldn’t exist without you

Reading your responses to fans concerns I could only spot a vague notion of how the historical colours of the club will be selected in future [another year away]. The clubs colours are surely part of its soul?

At present fans views are secondary to those who support Southampton regarding how the clubs soul will be maintained.

The use of we above is Keith, Jon, Doug, Guy, Kevin not fans in the Atyeo, Dolman, Eastend and Williams.

[Barrs Court Red]

Dave i

Love you?

[dezgimed]

I fail to see how you can call the current ticket prices reasonable.

I had to buy an extra ticket on Saturday and asked for the cheapest possible in the entire Dolman (had a ST holders seat to sit in), and it was £28.

That is a ridiculous price. Absolutely crazy.

[Fiale]

I fail to see how you can call the current ticket prices reasonable.

I had to buy an extra ticket on Saturday and asked for the cheapest possible in the entire Dolman (had a ST holders seat to sit in), and it was £28.

That is a ridiculous price. Absolutely crazy.

You will always find it more expensive to buy tickets just prior to a match - we flew to Barcelona for for £2.00 a couple of years ago (£1 each) and were sat with a couple who had paid over £100 each...... it's just the way things work - buy early get best deals.....

[newboy]

Fair comment. I do accept that in terms of vision and specific plans my response was lacking in detail, and until the board's vision is communicated clearly I fully understand that people have very right to be cynical. All I can do is to repeat what I have already said: there is a plan, and we will be discussing it with you soon and consulting with fans fully. Sometimes it's not possible to give instant solutions, but that doesn't mean that they are not being considered.

Cynical is an understatement David. Inability to act on continued failure and a lack of desire or ability to address this immediately exposes the board as a shambles.

Your original reply mentioned a few months. Now you say it's "soon". Can't you at least give us a commitment on a date, let alone *some* snippets of information now? Just paint a picture in broad strokes regarding the overall intent of the club and leave the minutae til later if you must.

The club has been on a downward spiral for years now. Are you saying that it doesn't have plans to hand now that can't at least be communicated? If not, what have the board been doing for the last 3 years apart from the new stadium?

When at the end of last season we were in a relegation fight, what contingency was put in place in case we were in another relegation battle this year? Are you implying that there wasn't one, and the board are only thinking about it now?

I assume getting Del in was a large part of a jigsaw of a larger strategy. What was this strategy? This must have been in place over 16 months ago. Why can't this be communicated to us poor schmucks that you expect to pay out a small fortune for the club?

The silence is deafening, the timescales for communication are vague at best and we can only assume from that the board doesn't have a clue.

If we leave it for a few months to hear the plan, let alone see some actions for it, we could well and truly be sunk.

And finally - for the second time of asking - you mentioned that a lot of positive things are happening behind the scenes. Can you name them?

[dezgimed]

You will always find it more expensive to buy tickets just prior to a match - we flew to Barcelona for for £2.00 a couple of years ago (£1 each) and were sat with a couple who had paid over £100 each...... it's just the way things work - buy early get best deals.....

How much cheaper would it have been in advance?

I still think anything over £22/23 is too much given the quality on show.

[tin]

Dave, you should pay serious attention to Nibor's post (#37). Those are the fundamental issues here.

[newboy]

Dave, you should pay serious attention to Nibor's post (#37). Those are the fundamental issues here.

I fundamentally disagree. You can't avoid the fact that the club is a business as well. It has to operate within budgets and have some kind of strategy for moving forward and some contingency plans for when things change.

However I do agree that if we just have a bunch of people who like pretending to be business people by spouting business rhetoric but achieving nothing then it's kind of pointless.

We need people who understand the business of football and have the vision and character to see it through.

That involves having a sound plan, announcing targets and actually putting stuff in place to achieve it in a transparent way.

Personally I think pasties, the East End, autograph signing etc are important, but pale into insignificance if the board don't have a clue and are unable or unwilling to act. We could have the best catering and the best website and the best stewards in the country, but if the board keep on appointing failures on a seemingly random basis and then do nothing when action is needed then it's all a bit pointless.

At the very least you'd expect them to let us know what they have achieved "behind the scenes" as a way of countering the growing criticism. To not do that is frankly bizarre.

[TBW]

A lot of these responses seem to be dodging a real response and have a lack of solution. For most of them it seems you could have infact just copied and pasted the starting sentence "No, that's not quite right. We do actually do this by..."

In that way I find these responses disappointing, a lot of us know you do these things and appreciate that but who's to say that it is enough?

With regard to the Keith Dawe subject, quoted below:

Our current chairman, Keith Dawe, has said that he doesn’t see his job as a ‘personality’ role. As a lifetime fan of the club, Jon Lansdown does recognise that fans have a right to be kept in the loop. He recently did an interview on BCFC Player which was well received, and both he and Keith spoke very honestly and passionately at the recent Supporters Meeting (which was advertised three weeks in advance by the way, not ‘a couple of days’).

The Glazers (Man Utd) and Roman Abramovich (Chelsea) are rarely heard from (if ever!), whilst the likes of Ken Bates (formerly Leeds) and Dave Whelan (Wigan) are happy to give an opinion about every decision in football at any time of day. I think it’s important we find equilibrium whereby we’re able to offer a connection via communication with the board on a basis that suits everyone.

Ask ANYONE here who loves this club and they'd prefer a Dave Whelan over a Glazer every day of the week. If Keith Dawe figures "it's not a personality role" then he's in the wrong job. At another club that may be the case, but THIS club... it matters.

With regard to the shirt for the next season and it being decided SO early - Why does it have to change EVERY year?! Could it not change every two years? At least the £45 cost would get some worth out of it then. I believe AFC Wimbledon do this and it's a huge difference maker to sales of the shirt. You wouldn't need to reduce them at the end of every season then to try get shot of them all quickly and early sales may well rise if people know it'll be in-date for two years rather than just the one. I've only ever bought shirts at the end of the season for £5-£15 over the last few years and stand a year out of date at around a £30 saving. Also if the team did particularly badly that year then I could avoid buying it as why would I want a shirt that is associated with the recent failures? Hardly a memory worth keeping. At least with a two year lifespan there's that vision of hope over a larger time period.

Apologies if any of this sounds like me taking a personal shot (especially early in the post). Personally, think you're a great guy and have met you on a few occasions, never been met with anything less than a welcome, a smile and handshake. Great asset but not sure there's a lot you can do to sort the problems we're all so unhappy with.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

I fundamentally disagree. You can't avoid the fact that the club is a business as well. It has to operate within budgets and have some kind of strategy for moving forward and some contingency plans for when things change.

If only the club actually did any of the above then it wouldn't have made a £14m loss. Any other buisness would have gone too the wall.

The scariest part for me was DaveL saying for the club to break even every fans ticket would be £80 odd.

NEWSFLASH > YOU'RE PAYING THE PLAYERS TO MUCH!!

The reason the supporters can't have nice things is because all the money goes to the players to have nice things.

I've been thinking (not always a good idea) ....

I'd love it if for every £1 that supporters put into the club ... tickets / food / merchandise 1p goes into a trust that is spent on supporter let projects like flags, artwork, entertainment, this forum, drums, tanoy systems, wifi, that kind of stuff that adds to the match day experience for supporters ....

Not only would this be a gesture from the club that they recognise the contribution of the supporters it puts the responsibility on us to ensure we are doing all we can to implement the suggestions we are putting to the club.

[Cliftonville]

Fair comment. I do accept that in terms of vision and specific plans my response was lacking in detail, and until the board's vision is communicated clearly I fully understand that people have very right to be cynical. All I can do is to repeat what I have already said: there is a plan, and we will be discussing it with you soon and consulting with fans fully. Sometimes it's not possible to give instant solutions, but that doesn't mean that they are not being considered.

Thanks again Dave. What I hope to read/hear is a clear acknowledgement of the role fans have in shaping the club in the past, and in the future. This is not evident in the response here. The few decide the identity of Bristol City, that identity can be totally commercialised [you are stating thus], and the ground covered in adverts for poundstretcher, with fans [fans shoiuld be the club!] having little ability to query, or make changes. I would like to see a concrete aim included to alter this.

[NickJ]

This club looks more and more like a company and less and less like a football club. And it's supposed to be a fking FOOTBALL CLUB. It exists to play the best football it can for the enjoyment of fans, everything else being completely incidental to that. It is a business only insofar as necessary to pay the bills, not one whit more.

The people running it are not supposed to be managers of a business, they are supposed to be custodians of a club that exists purely for the benefit of it's fans. Employees are not supposed to want to market to a demographic, or knock one out over a brand, or sell stuff to customers. And we're FANS, not customers. We either support or we don't, we don't get to switch brands.

The attitude and mindset of the current set of custodians is the root of every problem we currently have. The whole culture is wrong from the top downwards and this very process is evidence of that.

These words should be regularly repeated on this thread until the current custodians get it.

[whale]

Thanks Dave. Nice to see the gap be. Obviously there are a lot of issues people have but it's nice to see an attempt being made to unite everyone, although it can't be expected to change overnight!

I was talking to my family yesterday about this thread, and we were discussing when I was much younger. I was in young Reds or whatever the name was! And this was a superb initiative. Does this still exist? You were in a draw to be a mascot (I never won!), you could be a ball boy, watch matches with fellow young reds, and I had the opportunity to play on Ashton Gate at the end of the season. It was a long time ago so no idea if my memory is wrong, but there must have been around 50 children there. Coaches would divide us up and take us for different drills, ending with a few mini matches! One drill was a penalty shootout at the Atyeo end. Reaching the goal was an achievement for me at the time, yet it's still one of my favourite memories I have of City. Everyone was together and I remember feeling welcome, and that I was a massively important part of the club. It clearly worked as I am still hooked on City, although can't make as many matches as I live up North. After the session, we had the chance to meet the players and get autographs. It was a really good night.

Is this scheme still available? If not, when did it stop and why?

[exAtyeoMax]

If only the club actually did any of the above then it wouldn't have made a £14m loss. Any other buisness would have gone too the wall.

The scariest part for me was DaveL saying for the club to break even every fans ticket would be £80 odd.

NEWSFLASH > YOU'RE PAYING THE PLAYERS TO MUCH!!

The reason the supporters can't have nice things is because all the money goes to the players to have nice things.

I've been thinking (not always a good idea) ....

I'd love it if for every £1 that supporters put into the club ... tickets / food / merchandise 1p goes into a trust that is spent on supporter let projects like flags, artwork, entertainment, this forum, drums, tanoy systems, wifi, that kind of stuff that adds to the match day experience for supporters ....

Not only would this be a gesture from the club that they recognise the contribution of the supporters it puts the responsibility on us to ensure we are doing all we can to implement the suggestions we are putting to the club.

How about the players putting a few quid in too?

[Jordan Tansley]

These words should be regularly repeated on this thread until the current custodians get it.

Not often we agree, Nick. But on this occasion we do

[Randy Marsh]

Dave, what was the reason for Adam Baker's twitter being limited on what he could tell fans? That was probably our last little insight from the outside and was a shame to have it end and something I'd like to see return.

[BCFC_Dan]

If only the club actually did any of the above then it wouldn't have made a £14m loss. Any other buisness would have gone too the wall.

The scariest part for me was DaveL saying for the club to break even every fans ticket would be £80 odd.

NEWSFLASH > YOU'RE PAYING THE PLAYERS TO MUCH!!

The reason the supporters can't have nice things is because all the money goes to the players to have nice things.

I wonder how supporters would feel if the club really tried to take a stand on this.

I expect the other overheads (stadium maintenance etc.) would still be too high for it ever to work, but if the club simply refused to pay any more in wages than someone in a good 'ordinary' job would receive (say something from £25k-£50k pa) and only used players who would agree to that. I imagine we'd end up with a mid-table league two side in terms of quality but would supporters go and watch that, knowing the players weren't taking home astronomical amounts? Additionally if academy spending was actually increased and young players could see a clear route to the first team a la Crewe, would that improve the quality of players coming from the academy, even if the club couldn't keep hold of them for long?

As I said, I suspect it would be completely unworkable but I wonder if supporters would really take the hit of dropping through the divisions in exchange for the club making a stand against current wages. I guess if they would then more of them would be watching non-league instead. Answered my own question there.

[citywest30]

Dave

There are obviously a lot of strong views for you to deal with. It seems to me you have an almost impossible job as this forum shows daily every one has a slightly different opinion so it would be impossible to please everyone. The fact you have gone to the lengths you have speaks volumes and I think as city fans we should be thanking you for all your effort and be proud that we have someone who cares about the club as much as you obviously do. Keep it up - I'm sure it is appreciated by a lot of people; its just you'll hear from the unhappy ones the most.

[phantom]

As I posted on the Ciderheads site:

To me one of the most disapointing things is that this was only aimed at OTIB.

The whole topic was clearly read, so my mention to post on Ciderheads was obviously seen.

I really don't understand why nothing was aimed at the Ciderheads site??

Essentially a "cut and paste" job, that was all it required in the first instance, but as many others have stated this site is a small minority of the City support, and there are many on Ciderheads that don't post on here

[CotswoldRed]

Thanks for this Dave, much appreciated.

My first observation after a quick scan is we have just 2 short paragraphs concerning the chairman. In essence, he doesn't want to be a personality, so as long as he's somewhere between Ken Bates and completely anonymous then that's that problem dealt with?

Apologies if I've missed something but I can assure you this will fall a long way short of reassuring or appeasing fans.

On a separate point Dave, if you want to convince fans this isn't wishy washy you'll need to clearly define deliverables. Might sound a bit business-like but if you can communicate actions, owners and delivery dates, fans will trust those who run the club. It's hard to hide behind that. Easy to hide behind ambiguous rhetoric.

How can the majority agree something has been completed unless we can tick it off?

[Nibor]

On a separate point Dave, if you want to convince fans this isn't wishy washy you'll need to clearly define deliverables. Might sound a bit business-like but if you can communicate actions, owners and delivery dates, fans will trust those who run the club. It's hard to hide behind that. Easy to hide behind ambiguous rhetoric.

As far as I'm concerned, absolutely not.

Actions, owners and delivery dates lead to nothing of any substance being done because nobody commits to doing anything substantial and success becomes ticking a list, the actual aims forgotten. Every time a business has an action plan it massively screws up.

Think carefully about what the problems are, remain quiet, get stuff done that actually solves the problems, and only then tell us about it.