Your Views - Response

[CotswoldRed]

As far as I'm concerned, absolutely not.

Actions, owners and delivery dates lead to nothing of any substance being done because nobody commits to doing anything substantial and success becomes ticking a list, the actual aims forgotten. Every time a business has an action plan it massively screws up.

Think carefully about what the problems are, remain quiet, get stuff done that actually solves the problems, and only then tell us about it.

The point I'm making is it needs to be transparent. If the actions and objectives fall short we'll know up front. The club hasn't time for more smoke and mirrors.

I thought what we wanted were changes to be made that were endorsed by the fans. How can we complain if we haven't a means to define the changes?

I've run many teams in business before. There is no way I would ever get anything done without talking to the people I was serving (call them supporters if you will) in the first instance and giving them a clear view of when things would be completed.

[Nibor]

The point I'm making is it needs to be transparent. If the actions and objectives fall short we'll know up front. The club hasn't time for more smoke and mirrors.

IMO transparency will mean that it is irrelevant whether or not actions and objectives fall short because the people supposed to be getting stuff done will be too conservative.

This idea of taking a business approach to everything is what we need to kill at BCFC, a lot of accepted ways of doing things in business don't actually work in normal businesses.

The custodians of the club have enough information now from fans to understand the problems. If they can't solve them in a meaningful way, we need new people. Not ticklists.

[Chivs]

As far as I'm concerned, absolutely not.

Actions, owners and delivery dates lead to nothing of any substance being done because nobody commits to doing anything substantial and success becomes ticking a list, the actual aims forgotten. Every time a business has an action plan it massively screws up.

Think carefully about what the problems are, remain quiet, get stuff done that actually solves the problems, and only then tell us about it.

How do you suggest BCFC gets "stuff done that actually solves the problems..."?

Obviously, you don't identify the "stuff" because that would be an action; and you don't "solve" anything because that would involve an owner. Heavens forbid you set a delivery date because people might see when these are not met.

You obviously aren't stupid or naive so why are you being stupid and naive?

Is there some deep-rooted psychological issue with project management that you want to share with the forum? Perhaps you used to be one....

[CotswoldRed]

IMO transparency will mean that it is irrelevant whether or not actions and objectives fall rt because the people supposed to be getting stuff done will be too conservative.

This idea of taking a business approach to everything is what we need to kill at BCFC, a lot of accepted ways of doing things in business don't actually work in normal businesses.

The custodians of the club have enough information now from fans to understand the problems. If they can't solve them in a meaningful way, we need new people. Not ticklists.

I understand your concerns. I honestly do. This isn't a business like any other, but pretending its big and bad if men in suits go near it is too far the other way.

What worries me is the idea that the feedback provided will be enough to address things. A lack of commitment combined with no deliverables just gives lazy folk a further excuse as to why nothing happened.

Even a Women's Institute or Village gardening club have a list of actions, owners and delivery dates in their minutes. I'm not asking for much more.

[Rich i e]

As far as I'm concerned, absolutely not.

Actions, owners and delivery dates lead to nothing of any substance being done because nobody commits to doing anything substantial and success becomes ticking a list, the actual aims forgotten. Every time a business has an action plan it massively screws up.

Think carefully about what the problems are, remain quiet, get stuff done that actually solves the problems, and only then tell us about it.

Mmmmm, I work in a large organisation, which has all sorts of SMART objectives, business/actions plans, we get things done and we make a few quid every year

[NickJ]

Time for this:

This club looks more and more like a company and less and less like a football club. And it's supposed to be a fking FOOTBALL CLUB. It exists to play the best football it can for the enjoyment of fans, everything else being completely incidental to that. It is a business only insofar as necessary to pay the bills, not one whit more.

The people running it are not supposed to be managers of a business, they are supposed to be custodians of a club that exists purely for the benefit of it's fans. Employees are not supposed to want to market to a demographic, or knock one out over a brand, or sell stuff to customers. And we're FANS, not customers. We either support or we don't, we don't get to switch brands.

The attitude and mindset of the current set of custodians is the root of every problem we currently have. The whole culture is wrong from the top downwards and this very process is evidence of that.

[XJAP]

I believe our tickets are fairly priced and offer good value, particularly if you are a season ticket holder or buy in advance. I do think we need to look again at the 16 – 21 age group and at student prices for next season, and we will.

Sorry, but tickets aren't failry priced. Even advance tickets aren't reasonable.

A lot of people don't want to invest in to a season ticket watching a team week in, week out losing. + Some fans don't have the money to buy a ST.

I remember back in the day, over half the attendance would be pay on the day fans, becase the prices were reasonable, and therefore fans would attend regularly.

I am greatfull you have considered looking at some ticket prices for next season. However you shouldn't be looking at the U16's, 16-21 and student tickets in preparation for next season,

IT SHOULD BE DEALT WITH NOW. Pack the Gate? Encourage youngsters to come. FILL UP THE 8K EMPTY SEATS WE CONSTANTLY HAVE!!

- A packed house means a better atmoshpere, and this is beneficial for the players. Just remind yourself of the Coventry game last season - 19,000 fans, and we win 3-1 in a crucial game! Fantastic atmoshpere.

I'm sure you could pick a few (2-3 games) this season to promote and encourage fans to attend! Offer reasonable prices - £5 U16's, £8-10 Students/OAP, £10-12 adults. Would be nice to see a few attendances in the 15-18k area.

Finally, I think we may all agree, the EE segregation needs to be sorted now. We need to be behind the goal, many teams are brining small away followings... Bunch them up in one block of the wedlock! We want to create the noise, be intimidating, and most of all bring colour back into the EE.

Thanks, XJAP.

[Dave L]

Thanks to all for your feedback so far.

For those who thought there was a lack of substance, I was never going to be in a position where I could give immediate or easy answers to all of the points raised. It was, and continues to be, a genuine attempt to listen to what you have to say so that we can start to change things that need changing. Some fixes will be quicker than others, some will take more time. But things are happening.

I summarised four things at the end that needed to be looked at, and I'd like to let you know what is being done so far.

A closer relationship and two-way dialogue with core fans in the East End

• I have written to Sean and Liam, who are the Wedlock Stand delegates in the Fans Parliament to ask their help in arranging a meeting for anyone in the EE who'd like to come along and have a proper discussion about everything to do with the EE. That's pencilled in for Thursday 17th Jan, at a venue (away from AG) to be confirmed.
• I will be coming along to some pre-match drinking places around BS3 before either the Leicester or Ipswich games to meet and listen to supporters. Any suggestions as to where? Who'd like to come along? I'll then walk with you to the game and watch the match from the EE so I can experience things from your perspective.
• I'll be in the away end at Blackburn tomorrow, along with Kevin Smith. Come and talk, and we'll listen.
• For a while, we've been working with the Supporters Club and Trust on a survey to go out to all supporters, so you can give us specific feedback. We'll be submitting this to the next Fans Parliament for approval and getting it out to all fans as soon as possible.

· Better catering

• Your feedback on catering has been heard loud and clear, and action will be taken.

· Friendlier staff and stewards

• We had one very constructive high-level meeting about this yesterday. We discussed the need for an improvement in staff training and demeanour. Staff will be reminded that MP3 players and mobile phones are not to be used while they are working, and that a friendly greeting should always be given. That's just a start, but it's an easy response to a specific problem which was highlighted. More will follow.

· Better communication

• I think this thread, and it's predecessor, are an example of how we are at least trying to communicate better. There's more to do, but it's a start.
• We will also be coming back to you soon with more specific plans and suggestions.

So that's some concrete and specific things which weren't happening a week ago, which have arisen as a direct result of your feedback. There will be a lot more to come.

[Dollymarie]

Dave, just to throw a minor spanner in the works, the next Supporters Club and Trust meeting is pencilled in for the 17th, obviously it can go ahead without you being there, but just wanted to mention it in case you (or anyone else) wanted to come and discuss things raised in this thread.

Unless you wanted to speak to Stu and see if the two can be combined maybe? (if people feel that would be worth doing)

[Aizoon]

Just how much money does the club make from those 8K empty seats? Just asking, like

[Keepers Ball]

I have a wee gripe on the price of ticketing so I assume I can ak this Dave L via here.

I have a four year old lad who takes a little interest in Football on the TV so last summer thought id take him to Louis Careys testimonial at the last minute.Its a friendly so didnt matter if he got bored after a while and wanted to go to the park, but at least hed have a tatse of live football and its atmosphere. I did the same with my first lad at the same age (entry was free or very minimal).

I soon changed my mind when i was expected to pay £10 for him. I just had theat feeling i doubted we'd see the whole game so I turned and walked back home.

For the recent Peterborough game I wrestled with my concience whether to take the lad. If id bought the ticket in phase1 it would be £9, phase 2 £12 but if id bought on the day 14 quid !!

In the end i took a chance and ordered a ticket online for collection the day before. Come match day the weather is still pretty naff and my lad has had a rough time the previous night so i didnt take him...£12 down the drain.

Now this is my gripe. Why do you have to gave these "phase" prices ? Especially with very young children. Its not as if a seat is being taken up with the poor attendence these days

Heres another instance. Lets just say my lad didnt live with me and there was no guarantee I will definately see him on any specific saturday. We all know how awkward the ex can be..i know because I had this problem with my first Son. What do i do then ? Order a ticket and hope for the best only to be let down ?

In a nutshell can't you admit young juveniles for a minimal fee of around 6-7 quid and be able to pay it on the day? Once the child gets a tatse for it as soon as he becomes a Six - seven year old then charge a standard tenner !

[Dave L]

Dave, just to throw a minor spanner in the works, the next Supporters Club and Trust meeting is pencilled in for the 17th, obviously it can go ahead without you being there, but just wanted to mention it in case you (or anyone else) wanted to come and discuss things raised in this thread.

Unless you wanted to speak to Stu and see if the two can be combined maybe? (if people feel that would be worth doing)

[Dave L]

Good point Marie - sorry I

Missed that. Happy to combine, but that's very much up to the SC&T. Otherwise we'll have to find another night

[Dollymarie]

Good point Marie - sorry I

Missed that. Happy to combine, but that's very much up to the SC&T. Otherwise we'll have to find another night

Shall I check with Stu and the others, or will you?

[NickJ]

Thanks to all for your feedback so far.

For those who thought there was a lack of substance, I was never going to be in a position where I could give immediate or easy answers to all of the points raised. It was, and continues to be, a genuine attempt to listen to what you have to say so that we can start to change things that need changing. Some fixes will be quicker than others, some will take more time. But things are happening.

I summarised four things at the end that needed to be looked at, and I'd like to let you know what is being done so far.

A closer relationship and two-way dialogue with core fans in the East End

• I have written to Sean and Liam, who are the Wedlock Stand delegates in the Fans Parliament to ask their help in arranging a meeting for anyone in the EE who'd like to come along and have a proper discussion about everything to do with the EE. That's pencilled in for Thursday 17th Jan, at a venue (away from AG) to be confirmed.

• I will be coming along to some pre-match drinking places around BS3 before either the Leicester or Ipswich games to meet and listen to supporters. Any suggestions as to where? Who'd like to come along? I'll then walk with you to the game and watch the match from the EE so I can experience things from your perspective.

• I'll be in the away end at Blackburn tomorrow, along with Kevin Smith. Come and talk, and we'll listen.

• For a while, we've been working with the Supporters Club and Trust on a survey to go out to all supporters, so you can give us specific feedback. We'll be submitting this to the next Fans Parliament for approval and getting it out to all fans as soon as possible.

· Better catering

• Your feedback on catering has been heard loud and clear, and action will be taken.

· Friendlier staff and stewards

• We had one very constructive high-level meeting about this yesterday. We discussed the need for an improvement in staff training and demeanour. Staff will be reminded that MP3 players and mobile phones are not to be used while they are working, and that a friendly greeting should always be given. That's just a start, but it's an easy response to a specific problem which was highlighted. More will follow.

· Better communication

• I think this thread, and it's predecessor, are an example of how we are at least trying to communicate better. There's more to do, but it's a start.

• We will also be coming back to you soon with more specific plans and suggestions.

So that's some concrete and specific things which weren't happening a week ago, which have arisen as a direct result of your feedback. There will be a lot more to come.

So there's going to be be a meeting, and a survey, and the pies are going to be better, and the website will be improved, and the stewards will smile whilst doing an unneccessary job, and Kevin Smith is going to pretend to be a Bristol City fan.

That's all great.

And when will there be a fans representative on the board of directors Dave, as promised by Steve, or will that question continue to be dodged?

[The Fat Controller]

A lot of issues have been brought up on this thread. There's anothing thing that irks me.

The players don't seem to be trying. There's no fight, there's no passion, they're not dying for it.

What happened to our never say die attitude?

Do the players hear feedback like this? Do they care?

(There are a few notable exceptions but i could count them on one hand)

[stroudy]

Thanks to all for your feedback so far.

For those who thought there was a lack of substance, I was never going to be in a position where I could give immediate or easy answers to all of the points raised. It was, and continues to be, a genuine attempt to listen to what you have to say so that we can start to change things that need changing. Some fixes will be quicker than others, some will take more time. But things are happening.

I summarised four things at the end that needed to be looked at, and I'd like to let you know what is being done so far.

A closer relationship and two-way dialogue with core fans in the East End

• I have written to Sean and Liam, who are the Wedlock Stand delegates in the Fans Parliament to ask their help in arranging a meeting for anyone in the EE who'd like to come along and have a proper discussion about everything to do with the EE. That's pencilled in for Thursday 17th Jan, at a venue (away from AG) to be confirmed.

• I will be coming along to some pre-match drinking places around BS3 before either the Leicester or Ipswich games to meet and listen to supporters. Any suggestions as to where? Who'd like to come along? I'll then walk with you to the game and watch the match from the EE so I can experience things from your perspective.

• I'll be in the away end at Blackburn tomorrow, along with Kevin Smith. Come and talk, and we'll listen.

• For a while, we've been working with the Supporters Club and Trust on a survey to go out to all supporters, so you can give us specific feedback. We'll be submitting this to the next Fans Parliament for approval and getting it out to all fans as soon as possible.

· Better catering

• Your feedback on catering has been heard loud and clear, and action will be taken.

· Friendlier staff and stewards

• We had one very constructive high-level meeting about this yesterday. We discussed the need for an improvement in staff training and demeanour. Staff will be reminded that MP3 players and mobile phones are not to be used while they are working, and that a friendly greeting should always be given. That's just a start, but it's an easy response to a specific problem which was highlighted. More will follow.

· Better communication

• I think this thread, and it's predecessor, are an example of how we are at least trying to communicate better. There's more to do, but it's a start.

• We will also be coming back to you soon with more specific plans and suggestions.

So that's some concrete and specific things which weren't happening a week ago, which have arisen as a direct result of your feedback. There will be a lot more to come.

Good stuff!

[Dave L]

And when will there be a fans representative on the board of directors Dave, as promised by Steve, or will that question continue to be dodged?

Nick, I have already given a very clear answer to this question. I know it wasn't the answer you wanted, but it's the onlyl one I've got. You can keep asking the question if you like, but the answer won't change.

[BristolCity1992]

I have a wee gripe on the price of ticketing so I assume I can ak this Dave L via here.

I have a four year old lad who takes a little interest in Football on the TV so last summer thought id take him to Louis Careys testimonial at the last minute.Its a friendly so didnt matter if he got bored after a while and wanted to go to the park, but at least hed have a tatse of live football and its atmosphere. I did the same with my first lad at the same age (entry was free or very minimal).

I soon changed my mind when i was expected to pay £10 for him. I just had theat feeling i doubted we'd see the whole game so I turned and walked back home.

For the recent Peterborough game I wrestled with my concience whether to take the lad. If id bought the ticket in phase1 it would be £9, phase 2 £12 but if id bought on the day 14 quid !!

In the end i took a chance and ordered a ticket online for collection the day before. Come match day the weather is still pretty naff and my lad has had a rough time the previous night so i didnt take him...£12 down the drain.

Now this is my gripe. Why do you have to gave these "phase" prices ? Especially with very young children. Its not as if a seat is being taken up with the poor attendence these days

Heres another instance. Lets just say my lad didnt live with me and there was no guarantee I will definately see him on any specific saturday. We all know how awkward the ex can be..i know because I had this problem with my first Son. What do i do then ? Order a ticket and hope for the best only to be let down ?

In a nutshell can't you admit young juveniles for a minimal fee of around 6-7 quid and be able to pay it on the day? Once the child gets a tatse for it as soon as he becomes a Six - seven year old then charge a standard tenner !

It would make sense not to have phase prices for children to encourage as many in as poss. Good point.

[Guest]

Thanks to all for your feedback so far.

For those who thought there was a lack of substance, I was never going to be in a position where I could give immediate or easy answers to all of the points raised. It was, and continues to be, a genuine attempt to listen to what you have to say so that we can start to change things that need changing. Some fixes will be quicker than others, some will take more time. But things are happening.

I summarised four things at the end that needed to be looked at, and I'd like to let you know what is being done so far.

A closer relationship and two-way dialogue with core fans in the East End

• I have written to Sean and Liam, who are the Wedlock Stand delegates in the Fans Parliament to ask their help in arranging a meeting for anyone in the EE who'd like to come along and have a proper discussion about everything to do with the EE. That's pencilled in for Thursday 17th Jan, at a venue (away from AG) to be confirmed.
• I will be coming along to some pre-match drinking places around BS3 before either the Leicester or Ipswich games to meet and listen to supporters. Any suggestions as to where? Who'd like to come along? I'll then walk with you to the game and watch the match from the EE so I can experience things from your perspective.
• I'll be in the away end at Blackburn tomorrow, along with Kevin Smith. Come and talk, and we'll listen.
• For a while, we've been working with the Supporters Club and Trust on a survey to go out to all supporters, so you can give us specific feedback. We'll be submitting this to the next Fans Parliament for approval and getting it out to all fans as soon as possible.

· Better catering

• Your feedback on catering has been heard loud and clear, and action will be taken.

· Friendlier staff and stewards

• We had one very constructive high-level meeting about this yesterday. We discussed the need for an improvement in staff training and demeanour. Staff will be reminded that MP3 players and mobile phones are not to be used while they are working, and that a friendly greeting should always be given. That's just a start, but it's an easy response to a specific problem which was highlighted. More will follow.

· Better communication

• I think this thread, and it's predecessor, are an example of how we are at least trying to communicate better. There's more to do, but it's a start.
• We will also be coming back to you soon with more specific plans and suggestions.

So that's some concrete and specific things which weren't happening a week ago, which have arisen as a direct result of your feedback. There will be a lot more to come.

Sorry I know you are trying to paper over the cracks and heal rifts, but i.m.o

• Re East End; Would it not be better to just turn up in there and not fore worn everyone, just go in and stand by/near fans in that and every stand; should this not have been done already by the way (even once every couple of months) by you and the rest of the suits; then you would already know (as if you didnt already) what is going on in that and the other stands.
• Another survey, will it be different to any other, including this ongoing thread? action speaks louder than a thousand words.
• Re Catering; You must be the only one who didnt know how over priced and cack it is, again visiting these outlets and listening to fans buying the stuff would/should of alerted you to this. I know fans must pay a premium to help pay for the smart cars in the car park but at least it could be something decent.
• Stewards; again shouldnt these already be monitored as a matter of course, and havent we top notch survey cams to pick out trouble makers on both sides.
• Action required not words, say it as it is, please,before the whole ground is awash with adverts and corperate diners

While the club maybe waking up to the fact that, all is not right, I will still await some action both on and off the field.

[newboy]

· Better communication

• I think this thread, and it's predecessor, are an example of how we are at least trying to communicate better. There's more to do, but it's a start.
• We will also be coming back to you soon with more specific plans and suggestions.

So that's some concrete and specific things which weren't happening a week ago, which have arisen as a direct result of your feedback. There will be a lot more to come.

I look forward to this and appreciate that you've been stitched up by acting a go-between for some angry fans and an uncommunicative and seemingly inactive board.

But for the third time of asking: you mentioned that a lot of positive things are happening behind the scenes. Can you name them? I can't see for the life of me why it should be so difficult to readily answer this.

And if you're feeling generous - when will the board's plans become apparent - you've mentioned both "soon" and a "a few months".

[whale]

Have a soft spot for Spurs (hear me out) and their twitter feed is superb when it comes to matches. Very frequent updates. They also put video's of individual players / interviews / training on their facebook. Obviously they're a bigger club but it got me thinking as to why we don't have anything like this really. Our twitter feed for matches is pretty good I'd say. However I don't notice anything on the facebook page for City of any interest, is it an official page ran by the club or just a random bloke who made it?

More importantly though was the content of training and things. I don't understand why we can't have a 2 minute video of say Adomah practicing a free kick, or the strikers practicing their shooting etc. Nothing tactical that could backfire, but something fun. I have no idea what goes on at training having never been anywhere near it, so the structure is completely alien to me. I can only remember us once having an open training session and I think that was at an Open day but I may be wrong. I miss the days of being out in Granville Smythe Park and seeing the City team doing fitness sessions!

Main point however was surely there must be a way to get some better content on to player? The interviews are good to watch (although they seem somewhat filtered in what can be asked!), the highlights are also good to watch but just some smaller, less serious videos would go down well. Would maybe show me that the players are a fun group, that they do get on, and do seem to be enjoying life at City. Especially if it was say a couple of lads who had stayed after training for example.

Just a thought

[NickJ]

Nick, I have already given a very clear answer to this question. I know it wasn't the answer you wanted, but it's the onlyl one I've got. You can keep asking the question if you like, but the answer won't change.

Have you, well that's interesting.

The question was, essentially, what do the ST have to do in order for SL to honour his commitment of a fan on the board, when in his words, "it has been earned".

If the answer to that question is, "it isn't going to happen", you are effectively saying that SL is going back on his previously given commitment.

Thanks for the reply.

[chinapig]

Dave,

That wasn't exactly my question.

My question was, "what is it that the Supporters Trust has to do, which it hasn't yet done, to earn its seat on the board of directors?".

The background to the question was Steve's comment a few years ago, that this would "have to be earned".

So I'm simply looking for a follow up to the terms set by Steve, and therefore you would be wrong to be surprised if "Steve and the board would find it necessary to invite a supporter to attend board meetings", as this would be in direct contradiction to what Steve himself has previously indicated.

As you will have seen from earlier replies, I believe there are many City fans that I know of, and probably several times that that I don't, who could do a better job of running this football club than the current board, given the terms on which I (and most others judging by the can of worms you've opened on this thread) judge "better".

I therefore see my question as being quite fundamental, so look forward to the reply.

I have no doubt you are right (though I would not regard myself as a candidate!) about the number of fans with knowledge, skills and most importantly the attitude to do as you say. Why though, when I read that our Chairman sees no reason why he should communicate with his customers and read the highlighted words of Dave's do I somehow see the word "pleb" spelled "supporter"? All in this together eh chaps? As close to f... o... it's none of your business as you can get without actually saying it. Not surprising that the manager and many players seem to have the same attitude then. The club appears to have reverted to a League 1 operation on and off the field. I suppose that is forward planning of sorts though...

[TRL]

Have you, well that's interesting.

The question was, essentially, what do the ST have to do in order for SL to honour his commitment of a fan on the board, when in his words, "it has been earned".

If the answer to that question is, "it isn't going to happen", you are effectively saying that SL is going back on his previously given commitment.

Thanks for the reply.

I think it called dodging awkward questions, by answering an entirely different question to mask it.

[NickJ]

I honestly and seriously believe that a total fans boycott is the way forward. Steve can then have his club all to himself, which is what he wants and has got anyway, see how much fun it is then, without the fans.

[TRL]

I honestly and seriously believe that a total fans boycott is the way forward. Steve can then have his club all to himself, which is what he wants and has got anyway, see how much fun it is then, without the fans.

I agree. Football was far more fun and enjoyable when everyone was in it together. I didnt care a jot that we were floundering in the basement. There was a sense of being in it together.

Now we have a majority shareholder/owner, who seems to be on a power trip, moulding the club in his own vision. Ripping up the safe guards put in place when the club was saved last. He has ridden roughshod over the fans, and is slowly turning the club into a corporate/business plaything.

He may have good intentions, but I hate them and they are ruining the club I love. I can't believe one man and his cronies actions are actually starting to make me detest the club I love

[chinapig]

As far as I'm concerned, absolutely not.

Actions, owners and delivery dates lead to nothing of any substance being done because nobody commits to doing anything substantial and success becomes ticking a list, the actual aims forgotten. Every time a business has an action plan it massively screws up.

Think carefully about what the problems are, remain quiet, get stuff done that actually solves the problems, and only then tell us about it.

A view I am very much inclined to share after a working lifetime fighting the cult of managerialism in the hope of actually getting things done. All that changes is the latest fashioinable jargon (how long before we read that the club is adopting Lean, God help us?). Private or public sector makes no difference, the same inability to distinguish between process and outcome, between activity and action, prevails in my experience. Project plans, focus groups, surveys, meetings, reorganisations and so on all designed to create the illusion of action. There will be much talk of change but if you challenge the status quo you will be slapped down pdq. It won't change either while there are vested interests at stake and a minority of people are doing very nicely out of the status quo (viz the non-existent "reform" of the banks). As true of football as any other organisation. I would not advise anybody to hold their breath.

[CotswoldRed]

A view I am very much inclined to share after a working lifetime fighting the cult of managerialism in the hope of actually getting things done. All that changes is the latest fashioinable jargon (how long before we read that the club is adopting Lean God help us?). Private or public sector makes no difference, the same inability to distinguish between process and outcome, between activity and action, prevails in my experience. Project plans, focus groups, surveys, meetings, reorganisations and so on all designed to create the illusion of action. There will be much talk of change but if you challenge the status quo you will be slapped down pdq. It won't change either while there are vested interests at stake and a minority of people are doing very nicely out of the status quo (viz the non-existent "reform" of the banks). As true of football as any other organisation. I would not advise anybody to hold their breath.

I used to work with people who used to whinge endlessly about the company they worked for. When someone offered to put things right they whinged about how it wasn't going to work.

Sounds very similar to me.

The club have come out with a willingness to put things right. Throwing a large lump of apathy at things is the last thing needed now.

Be sceptical, but don't criticise all efforts unless you can suggest a better way forward. It takes no effort to be critical. It takes something more to change things for the better.

Dave can't please everyone but I genuinely believe he cares, a lot.

[CodeRed]

I agree. Football was far more fun and enjoyable when everyone was in it together. I didnt care a jot that we were floundering in the basement. There was a sense of being in it together.

Now we have a majority shareholder/owner, who seems to be on a power trip, moulding the club in his own vision. Ripping up the safe guards put in place when the club was saved last. He has ridden roughshod over the fans, and is slowly turning the club into a corporate/business plaything.

He may have good intentions, but I hate them and they are ruining the club I love. I can't believe one man and his cronies actions are actually starting to make me detest the club I love

This - excellent post TRL

The respones by DL have only served to dig a deeper pit - It IS SL's club now, a world away from those days

when we followed the club all over country in div 4 after coming together to save the club.

Dereyn Coller and Ken Sage saved the club in 82 and made an important rule in the new constitution that no one person could own more than 5% of the shares in order to protect and ensure the club was run democratically (on behalf of the fans).

We now have scrapped that rule and the club is owned by one individual and the club is now -

whatever he wants it to be, making all this thread pretty much irrelevant.

Get used to it