Mcinnes And Board Thanks......

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

Are you for real? Mciness was a disaster! Look at the difference since SOD has come in. Still the same board and players but much better results. You should be ashamed of yourself! could be made for McInnes when he took over, after all

Same case could be made for McInnes when took over from KM, he saved us from disaster did he not? As did KM when Johnno lost the plot.... and so on. And whos to say that the same wont happen to O'Driscoll somwhere down the line?

Why exactly should I be ashamed of myself? Just because my opinion differs from yours? Nah im not ashamed of myself... been reading your clueless comments and your petty agendas though.

[Guest]

He was just made the sacrificial goat for the boards failures over the past few years. The abuse he received at the time was a complete joke and some fans should be ashamed of themselves, clearly had the best interests of the club at heart but it just didnt work out.

I'm one of the (possibly stupid and naïve) few who think he'll come good - although I accept probably not here. However, he barely got any abuse to be fair. Same with Millen, I actually think compared to some clubs as fans we might get downhearted but really Pulis is the last manager I can remember hearing the whole crowd baying for his blood.

We might moan and grown on a board but in the ground it is relatively flat. Think of the 3-2 we lost to reading at home, even then Millen didn't cop THAT much.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Are you for real? Mciness was a disaster! Look at the difference since SOD has come in. Still the same board and players but much better results. You should be ashamed of yourself!

What nonsense.

After a great start to the season Del lost his way for various reasons - not least injuries - plus some unforgivably poor performances over a long period from a number of players.

Looks like a damning verdict on McInnes' time at City, with total blame on the manager, has already become accepted fact for many on this forum and the under performing and half hearted players have got away with it once again.

Not with this City fan they haven't.

[BristolCity?]

What nonsense.

After a great start to the season Del lost his way for various reasons - not least injuries - plus some unforgivably poor performances over a long period from a number of players.

Looks like a damning verdict on McInnes' time at City, with total blame on the manager, has already become accepted fact for many on this forum and the under performing and half hearted players have got away with it once again.

Not with this City fan they haven't.

So you are basically saying that mciness is blameless.

[garlicbread]

mr lansdown washes away countless millions on this club he can say and do what he wants, just think yerself lucky we have a fan in charge.

Can he say and do what he wants? Is he not in anyway accountable to the other investors (fans) who spend good money to support?

This club will be in league 1 next season...exactly the same point as when he bought it....gosh arent we lucky to have had 2 good seasons in the CCC.

[Nogbad the Bad]

So you are basically saying that mciness is blameless.

No. He certainly made mistakes - not least by being far too loyal to under performing players and occasional unfathomable tinkering with selection. He wasn't ruthless enough, and was naive at times, but he got a lot of things right too.

He has to take his share of the blame and of course as the manager he suffered the consequences.

The players, who were at least equally culpable - more so in my book because there was certainly never a lack of effort and commitment from Del - seem to have got away scot -free once again with no repercussions for their disgraceful performances.

I only hope many of them have let the club and the fans down for the last time and will be looking for new clubs in the Summer.

[BS34Red]

Why do people always feel the need to insult people. Ok on the pitch he didn't do too well but come on does he really deserve all this personal abuse? He did save us last season which many forget.

[BS34Red]

Can he say and do what he wants? Is he not in anyway accountable to the other investors (fans) who spend good money to support?

This club will be in league 1 next season...exactly the same point as when he bought it....gosh arent we lucky to have had 2 good seasons in the CCC.

are we not lucky that we got out of league one and spent a couple of seasons in this league plus a trip to Wembley? Don't know about you but in our league one days playing the likes of colchester, brentford, gillingham etc I yearned for the days where we would play the likes of Derby, Bolton, Birmingham weekly. I dreamed of just being in the championship even if we was in a relegation fight every season. The fact we have survived this long has amazed me. If we do return to league one then it will be no great surprise and we leave the championship with many memories and a manager who I believe can bring us back up.

[biggythecity]

Same case could be made for McInnes when took over from KM, he saved us from disaster did he not? As did KM when Johnno lost the plot.... and so on. And whos to say that the same wont happen to O'Driscoll somwhere down the line?

Why exactly should I be ashamed of myself? Just because my opinion differs from yours? Nah im not ashamed of myself... been reading your clueless comments and your petty agendas though.

Your right about this guy.All he seems to want to do is join in the slag of McInnes and blame him for everything...global recession will be next!Del made mistakes but his legacy of what he has started behind the scenes will stand us in good stead for many years,like you say when we go on a bad run this guy and others will be calling SOD S O clueless

[garlicbread]

are we not lucky that we got out of league one and spent a couple of seasons in this league plus a trip to Wembley? Don't know about you but in our league one days playing the likes of colchester, brentford, gillingham etc I yearned for the days where we would play the likes of Derby, Bolton, Birmingham weekly. I dreamed of just being in the championship even if we was in a relegation fight every season. The fact we have survived this long has amazed me. If we do return to league one then it will be no great surprise and we leave the championship with many memories and a manager who I believe can bring us back up.

Yes, I yearned for those days also, but it means nothing without Stability - ask a Pompey fan....all we got (and expected) was borrowed time and a relegation.

And BTW, the promotion and trip to Wembley was done on a shoestring and has nothing to do with the spending iof millions. The throwing of millions on carp players (and bold statements) was done after, and thats when it started to go pear shaped.

I respect Lansdown, of course I do, but he is not above criticism. There have been a number of profound cock ups made IMO, those being:

1) The ridiculous 5 year deal given to Johnson

2) Stating very publicly (lots of times) that the goal was top two the following season after Wembley, thus massively inflating the pressure on the club

3) The Steve Coppell debacle...much more to it than it being Coppell joining then just deciding he wanted out

4) Giving Millen the Job permanently when it needed experienced manager to pick up the pieces

5) This current board

Del had to cope with the long term fall out from most of the above, poor bugger IMO

[glynriley]

No. He certainly made mistakes - not least by being far too loyal to under performing players and occasional unfathomable tinkering with selection. He wasn't ruthless enough, and was naive at times, but he got a lot of things right too.

He has to take his share of the blame and of course as the manager he suffered the consequences.

The players, who were at least equally culpable - more so in my book because there was certainly never a lack of effort and commitment from Del - seem to have got away scot -free once again with no repercussions for their disgraceful performances.

I only hope many of them have let the club and the fans down for the last time and will be looking for new clubs in the Summer.

Spot on post Noggers and the bit I've highlighted was backed up by Lansdown at last weeks Q&A who said he was the hardest working manager he's employed.

[marshy]

Spot on post Noggers and the bit I've highlighted was backed up by Lansdown at last weeks Q&A who said he was the hardest working manager he's employed.

Not a lot of point working hard if you're poor at what you do. You just make things worse.

[BristolCity?]

Why exactly should I be ashamed of myself? Just because my opinion differs from yours? Nah im not ashamed of myself... been reading your clueless comments and your petty agendas though.

Hang on, you said yourself in a previous post that fans who criticise mciness should be ashamed of themselves!

The Pot calling the kettle black!

[glynriley]

Not a lot of point working hard if you're poor at what you do. You just make things worse.

He worked hard , tried his best but ultimately it wasn't good enough , but at least the effort and commitment was there. Maybe if some of our players had done similar we would not be in the position we are now.

Nogbad is right , the blame can not be apportioned just to McInnes , the players are as culpable.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

Hang on, you said yourself in a previous post that fans who criticise mciness should be ashamed of themselves!

The Pot calling the kettle black!

Read it again Einstein, I said that the abuse he received etc was over the top and was uncalled for, see there is a difference between criticism and abuse.. In the end up, the guy tried his best and had the clubs best interests at heart, it didnt work out but you seem to bang on about the fact that he was a complete disaster and he is solely to blame for Citys woes. No he wasnt, tactics and team selections at times were of course questionable but the players should hang their head in shame for some of the shameful performances they put in, were not fit to wear the shirt. Seemed to me that the mediocre stock we have knew their number was up with McInnes and it was a case of he goes or they go.. so Player Power strikes again like it did with Millen previously.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

Your right about this guy.All he seems to want to do is join in the slag of McInnes and blame him for everything...global recession will be next!Del made mistakes but his legacy of what he has started behind the scenes will stand us in good stead for many years,like you say when we go on a bad run this guy and others will be calling SOD S O clueless

Spot on, McInnes laid down the foundations and only time will tell if O'Driscoll can sort us out in the long term but no doubt if it does go pear shaped or we go on a bad run then fans will turn on him as well.

[marshy]

He worked hard , tried his best but ultimately it wasn't good enough , but at least the effort and commitment was there. Maybe if some of our players had done similar we would not be in the position we are now.

Nogbad is right , the blame can not be apportioned just to McInnes , the players are as culpable.

You are right. I'm sure he worked hard and did his best and you can't fault him for that.

[Nibor]

He worked hard, did his best and was a nice chap.

It didn't work because he changed the side for pretty much every game and didn't get them organised.

Hope he learns from that.

It's good he's found a job, he needs to be working and it saves us money.

[Aizoon]

"Riding the coat tails of hindsight" - I love that! It's almost Churchillian

[Cider-Head23]

We cant just keep blaming Del and Doc Etc.. For are poor league position, Sean took the job when we were in big trouble, nobody knew where the next goal would come from let alone win. SOD has done a fantastic job so far a home form has been crucial and we still have a massive chance of surivial. but and the end of the season if get relegated we cant look back and say Mcinnes ruined us, but Sod has had more than enough time to keep us up, there has been many games we should have came away with more points than we have, for example. Brighton, Blackpool, Leeds. Wolves. Meaning we would be safe. we cant just blame Mcinnes!

[REDOXO]

Blimey. A lot said about what is now accademic (per my earlier post), however here is my tuppence worth.

McInness received nowhere near the abuse Millen got and was pretty much immune from criticism by many until even the most miopic could no longer suffer the consequences of half AG being empty by HALF TIME. Have we ever had a manager in our history that could clear a crowd faster than this fellow?

As for the structural changes in the club, who knows, what 'dividends' will be reaped by employing a lot of people with no affinity to the club in positions where they can influence the future. It may go well it may not...But lets be honest any of the current crop of youngsters coming through had little to do with the McInness changes so, lets ask that question in three years (if its not all been changed)

Some of the players also must carry some responsibility as it does seem that the dressing room here is fickle. In the past I have spoken with highly placed officials of the club privately and it would appear that we have had a dressing room with a culture of undermining managers and some unproffesionalism for years....Going back to the late 80's....

It could be argued that Wilson, Tinnion, GJ, Millen and McInness all suffered from this and various fingers have been pointed over the years. GJ came in and I suspect was warned of the culture he faced and took us on that massive run of defeats before having cleared many of the players that were surplus and bringing in players who wanted to play..Basso among others changed that, however the whole Basso contract row changed the dynamic and it seemed everything that was gained was lost.

Anyway Mr O'Driscoll comes with a similar ethic as Mr Johnson....Keep organized and keep your shape, put bodies in front of the opposition when they have the ball and cut down the space...The forward stuff is still a work in progress but we hope something might click in attack for the last 8 games.

I suppose in conclusion we were a disorganized rabble under McInness who's fault that was I dont care about anymore particularly as I'm not angry anymore...So lets all just move on!

[havanatopia]

Red Oxo.. wanted to pick up on your point about dressing room culture, its an interesting one. I'd like to understand how you believe this works. For example, if you suggest there has been an issue with dressing room culture going back to the 80's how exactly does it get passed down the line so 'successfully'. There is no constant that I could think of that would be the 'glue' for that; no one or more players who are there, obviously, throughout a prolonged period and for sure no boot room man who wields such an influence.

Perhaps It was handed to Carey as the baton man from a previous long standing incumbent, this so called culture of undermining any gaffer like the flick of a switch. However, I doubt that strongly very much.

What i think your 'contact' merely eludes to, if I may be so bold, is that a 'dressing room culture' is, by definition, at any club all of the time and has nothing to do with BCFC and any managerial set up that enabled such a beast to flourish without breakage. When you have a squad of 30 and a dressing room of 16-17 on match days you are bound to have a few who naturally resonate toward each other as mates, as bed fellows of gloom or of contentment and you will also have a few who mingle together as a clique to perhaps undermine those playing by those who may or may not be playing themselves but are not happy with their lot. This is at clubs the length and breadth of the land.

Call it a culture but it is nothing to do with BCFC and any strange idiosyncrasy or conspiracy of our club; it is always there because of a group of players being at close quarters, week in and week out like everywhere else. The chances of it not happening are slim not the opposite.

[friendlygas]

Reading this very interesting topic and looking at it from the outside is not this blame making the culture of all football clubs? Is not every Manager only as good as his CURRENT season? IMO the day after a Manager is employed is one day nearer the day he will be sacked! The scenario with McInnes is very similar to ours with the appointment of McGhee (although McGhee was an experienced Manager and McInnes not) in that they both took over clubs in a very poor state and managed to turn them around but were then found wanting when creating their own team.

How long does the blame culture last? ie at the end of last season when yourselves and us stayed up both appointments were accepted by the MAJORITY as being the right ones . Now both decisions are looked back on by SOME fans as being awful appointments by the Boards!!

As regards the various comments on it being a waste of time the last few seasons where you have been in the Championship if you go back down this is absolute nonsence. In football you have to make the most of the good times because generally unless you are a top Premiership club they don't come that often. We are back in League 2 but there is no way whatsoever I would have wanted to miss out on the four years in League 1.

If you do go down (I personally think you will get out of it again this year because of your home form and the fact that like John Ward has done for us SOD has made you organised and you will pick up some away points as well from the games you have left) then although it is difficult to go straight back up you still have the memories of those times leading to the Championship and the time there and a team to support.

That is what being a supporter of your LOCAL team is all about rather than buying yourself a Manchester United shirt and becoming a hanger on of them. Supporting your local side is in the blood and you like us will go through all the emotions associated with it.

If you look at it logically then EVERY Manager appointed will become a poor appointment at some time in the future! Who would be a football Club Chairman?

[Northern Red]

I said when McInnes was appointed that if he put his trust in the same players that previous managers had done, they would see him sacked. I don't have an ounce of respect for those players and their miraculous turn around in form (not organisation, form) as soon as the manager had left. Certain senior players (not all by any means) need to be moved on, they'll eventually let down SOD, the club and the supporters.

Not to say that McInnes shouldn't have gone, but some players are much more culpable than the manager IMO.

Spot on, as Nogbad is further up also, and the fact that people seem to be heaping the blame solely on Del means that these players have got off scot-free, again. No doubt if SO'D decides to move some of them on in the summer, regardless of what league we're in, he'll get slagged off for doing so. Some of them should have been binned years ago.

[WTFiGO!?!]

No. He certainly made mistakes - not least by being far too loyal to under performing players and occasional unfathomable tinkering with selection. He wasn't ruthless enough, and was naive at times, but he got a lot of things right too.

He has to take his share of the blame and of course as the manager he suffered the consequences.

The players, who were at least equally culpable - more so in my book because there was certainly never a lack of effort and commitment from Del - seem to have got away scot -free once again with no repercussions for their disgraceful performances.

I only hope many of them have let the club and the fans down for the last time and will be looking for new clubs in the Summer.

The job description of any management position, though, is surly to maximise the capability of the employee and get the thing properly organised. If the piss taking players were underachieving they should not have been selected.

Fontain, Pearson, Foster, Woodman.

[Timbo7]

In this league as in many others there is significant inequality in the resources available to the 24 clubs. If the rankings at the end of the season perfectly reflected the resources available there would be absolutely no point in having the competition as the outcome would be known (or at least knowable) in advance. Fortunately it is not so predictable because some will over-perform and others will under-perform.

Bristol City is neither the best resourced club nor the worst and hence reaching the playoffs in 2008 was an over-achievement - finishing 24th this season will be an underachievement.

I have no doubt that DMcI was not as bad as our performances indicated but nonetheless he was plainly incapable of raising team performances to an adequate level to achieve 21st and hence he had to go. If (as some persistently argue) our squad is not capable of 21st place either because of lacking talent or unacceptable attitude then this will no doubt become apparent next season when:

• few if any are signed by Championship clubs;
• few manage to play regularly for Championship clubs; and/or
• those that are signed and do play find themselves getting relegated again.

If, as I consider far more likely, most of our squad (other than those still under contract who we have priced out of the market through over-inflated salaries) will be attractive to other Championship clubs and will do better than they did here. This of course begs the question why they could not do better here BUT unless anyone seriously believes in some crazy conspiracy where players are somehow motivated to fail, the reasons for underachievement must have something to do with the way Bristol City goes about achieving the best outcome from the available resource. As I have said so many times on here, almost all human beings need things to be a certain way to perform consistently at their best - it is attention to this more than anything else that justifies paying a generous salary to the management team. I have absolutely no in-depth knowledge (other than as a spectator) of professional sport BUT I have no doubt that the things that influence the quality of my performance in my professional career have an exaggerated effect on those that operate in the public eye where every mistake is subjected to public scrutiny.

I am truly fed up of reading on here that the players don't care or worse that they are intentionally failing. Get real! Losing professional football matches and making publicly criticised mistakes cannot be an enjoyable experience and cannot be career-enhancing for anyone. To have a chance of performing well, every player needs to believe they can win and that their own individual performance will influence the outcome. Failing on either count must inevitably lead to under-performance, which is all too easy (but ultimately unsustainably) attributed by some to lack of effort, spine or interest.

[Corleone]

He should have gone earlier - agreed.

In his defence:

He kept us up last season and we played some cracking stuff, beating saints home and away.

He started the season brightly, open, attacking football with a full squad.

He got hooped by injuries to all of the defence and Skuse at the same time = Momentum lost, confidence shot to pieces.

He is managing possibly the worst BCFC squad that I have ever seen.

Harve

Worst BCFC squad?! Really?!

[Aizoon]

Not sure what you mean by intentionally failing but are you saying that in your career you have never come across anyone who has undermined management for whatever reason ?

I've done it and IMO was justified in doing so. Karma sometimes needs a little help.

[REDOXO]

Red Oxo.. wanted to pick up on your point about dressing room culture, its an interesting one. I'd like to understand how you believe this works. For example, if you suggest there has been an issue with dressing room culture going back to the 80's how exactly does it get passed down the line so 'successfully'. There is no constant that I could think of that would be the 'glue' for that; no one or more players who are there, obviously, throughout a prolonged period and for sure no boot room man who wields such an influence.

Perhaps It was handed to Carey as the baton man from a previous long standing incumbent, this so called culture of undermining any gaffer like the flick of a switch. However, I doubt that strongly very much.

What i think your 'contact' merely eludes to, if I may be so bold, is that a 'dressing room culture' is, by definition, at any club all of the time and has nothing to do with BCFC and any managerial set up that enabled such a beast to flourish without breakage. When you have a squad of 30 and a dressing room of 16-17 on match days you are bound to have a few who naturally resonate toward each other as mates, as bed fellows of gloom or of contentment and you will also have a few who mingle together as a clique to perhaps undermine those playing by those who may or may not be playing themselves but are not happy with their lot. This is at clubs the length and breadth of the land.

Call it a culture but it is nothing to do with BCFC and any strange idiosyncrasy or conspiracy of our club; it is always there because of a group of players being at close quarters, week in and week out like everywhere else. The chances of it not happening are slim not the opposite.

Yes Hi Havana

You clearly have some insight into cultures in the work place.

Without getting into what conversations have been had, what I can tell you is as a football club players and managers have at times been brought in with a brief to alter an existing culture with our team!

Gary Johnson made it perfectly clear that we had too many footballers and not enough football players on his arrival and went about the task of shifting those who would not change and changing the attitudes of those he could....This was all pretty much said at the time.

During the Wilson period there was a culture of drinking discussed a thousand times on here...Roberts Peacock Doherty among others were mentioned (allegedly) drinking heavily...Roberts eventually turned to AA if I am not mistaken

Tinnion was given the job post Wilson and the acramony between the two was at the point where they couldnt look at each other on the touchline when they met...You may be able to find the interview still where Wilson told the interviewer to move on regarding questions about his relationship with Tinnion. Wilson felt he had been undermined by Tinnion among others and from what I understand that may have carried on in the dressing room as Tinnion himself was undermined.

McInnes was a bad appointment. His way simply did not fit with the players he had at his disposal and thusl failed abysmally....However you will read simply dozens of posts on here about how much the players were to blame for poor performances. All alluding toward players simply gave up...which some clearly did. Cole Skuse went as far as to tell supporters twice at the end of match's that they were trying....What a mess and still people backed McInnes.

Ther are loads of other things I could bring up and yes you could say that these things I mention happend in isolation. However your theory of a batton holder across several managers is really not what happens in the real world. Employees come and go leave, retire etc...and cultures get passed on as the new guys come in. There is no begining and end its dynamic...

Managers may come and go but many of the players will play for two or three a culture gets passed in this way as new players come in much as it does in a work place.

Are City any worse than any other club....I simply dont know...I dont follow any other club to be able to comment. What I can say is that for years there has been speculation and it (poor culture and attitude) feels to me like it is a bigger problem here than most clubs.

Yes there is no direct link between Drunken binges in the 90's and 2000's and players not putting it in this season...But you could infer a cycle of player power that the club has been unable to get a grip of succesfully!

[WTFiGO!?!]

In this league as in many others there is significant inequality in the resources available to the 24 clubs. If the rankings at the end of the season perfectly reflected the resources available there would be absolutely no point in having the competition as the outcome would be known (or at least knowable) in advance. Fortunately it is not so predictable because some will over-perform and others will under-perform.

Bristol City is neither the best resourced club nor the worst and hence reaching the playoffs in 2008 was an over-achievement - finishing 24th this season will be an underachievement.

I have no doubt that DMcI was not as bad as our performances indicated but nonetheless he was plainly incapable of raising team performances to an adequate level to achieve 21st and hence he had to go. If (as some persistently argue) our squad is not capable of 21st place either because of lacking talent or unacceptable attitude then this will no doubt become apparent next season when:

• few if any are signed by Championship clubs;
• few manage to play regularly for Championship clubs; and/or
• those that are signed and do play find themselves getting relegated again.

If, as I consider far more likely, most of our squad (other than those still under contract who we have priced out of the market through over-inflated salaries) will be attractive to other Championship clubs and will do better than they did here. This of course begs the question why they could not do better here BUT unless anyone seriously believes in some crazy conspiracy where players are somehow motivated to fail, the reasons for underachievement must have something to do with the way Bristol City goes about achieving the best outcome from the available resource. As I have said so many times on here, almost all human beings need things to be a certain way to perform consistently at their best - it is attention to this more than anything else that justifies paying a generous salary to the management team. I have absolutely no in-depth knowledge (other than as a spectator) of professional sport BUT I have no doubt that the things that influence the quality of my performance in my professional career have an exaggerated effect on those that operate in the public eye where every mistake is subjected to public scrutiny.

I am truly fed up of reading on here that the players don't care or worse that they are intentionally failing. Get real! Losing professional football matches and making publicly criticised mistakes cannot be an enjoyable experience and cannot be career-enhancing for anyone. To have a chance of performing well, every player needs to believe they can win and that their own individual performance will influence the outcome. Failing on either count must inevitably lead to under-performance, which is all too easy (but ultimately unsustainably) attributed by some to lack of effort, spine or interest.

I've got a lose connection to one of the players not being picked by DMAC and not being picked now. He was dissatisfied, I don't know what his morale is now.

The point is; part of managing a TEAM, or squad, is maximising the potential of all for the good of that team.

DMAC blatantly failed in this respect.