Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 They didnt gtass him up, they stopped him running away. Which i think any city fan would do, if they saw someone getting badly beaten up by someone. The events that happened at cardiff this year, didnt see any of that. All i saw was pushing and shoving, i dont think i actually saw a punch thrown. And gave evidence against him, ergo grassed him up. You never saw everything that happened, so why not wait and see what evidence the police actually have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 ame="Barrs Court Red" post="1798518" timestamp="1370007849"] Not expose people to public pillory. Whatever next, mugshots of random men in an area where a rape occured. "Do you know these men?" Booom automatic rapist in the eyes of the public. Just look at what they are doing. "We want to speak to these people, but we wont say what about and dont care thqt they are now guilty by association" What would you have the police do instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted May 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 CCTV of suspects in all sorts of cases regularly appear on Crimewatch, do you have a problem with those as well? How do we know that the people whose pictures have been issued aren't caught red-handed by the cameras? We don't, so it's still innocent until proven guilty therefore they are not yet accused of anything. It should still be perfectly acceptable for the police to ask for help in identifying people they need to speak to though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 Well thats your opinion. I would also point out that crimwatch regards a specific offence. Not a group of people thrown together who may well have done nothing more than say a naughty word. Still if you think that this approach is fair and fine then thats up to you. Personally it doesnt sit well with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo7 Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 The behaviour of police at football matches is at times unacceptable and they don't seem to be very good at (or don't want to) discriminate between people trying to get out of the way and people causing trouble. Have any of the people with tales of barbaric acts from the fuzz complained to the IPCC? I believe that if there are a certain number of complaints about a particular event or incident they have to investigate. Baring in mind that most of these events seem to have been provoked by police brutality or tactics, you would think that every away side that visits every place should have reason to complain and the weight of evidence would be building against these police forces I went through several months of biased, prejudiced and time-wasting nonsense following my complaint after the JPT match in Horfield. My consistent complaint regarding the behaviour of the Police regarding football supporters (and equally at other events where they take it upon themselves to "control" rather than "protect" or "prevent") stretches beyond individual incidents and relates to more systemic issues. My letter of complaint in 2007 contained at least four separate criticisms of the police on that evening BUT when I was interviewed the IPCC was plainly interested only in the use of CS Gas (which was just one of my complaints) and the alleged safety issue regarding fans in the "marquee" after the final whistle (which I had not complained about). The interviewer was not even prepared to record my detailed criticism of dangerous and threatening police behaviour before the match or my allegations of poor planning and control - much more interested in recording my acknowledgement that a ruck was on the cards after the match! To illustrate the pointlessness of it all, the IPCC issued an interim report to all complainants part way through the process which included a direct quote from the chief steward (or similar) at the Gas who had confirmed that violent and aggressive behaviour was widespread among the visiting supporters and in the circumstances he had found the Police response calm, measured and entirely justified. In essence the whole investigation was aimed at justifying the Police action or failing that to identify individual officers to be disciplined - no chance whatsoever of method or approach being questioned. This is of course the same "Police" who can shoot Brazilian plumbers on the Underground and the same IPCC who could not find anyone responsible - not to mention Hillsborough of course Life is much too short to go down that road again - it would be a job for Government if the majority of the public gave a toss but the truth is most are content to believe the Police do a fine job protecting the public from yobs, terrorists, damned foreigners and bloody football supporters. Life is much too short to indulge in the same again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 I've been punched,kicked, hit with a Baton had dogs snarling at me and police on horses pushing me along, all this by the Police. All this just for being at a football match, I wonder if we could have mugshots of these "officers of the law" put up for US to see? Many a time I've been told to " fxxk off" when I've asked for the policeman's number ( which always seem to be hidden), the West Midlands force spring to mind. It seems that me being at a football match seems to give them the right to do whatever they want to me. Yes, I expect quite a few of these lads did wrong, but I bet the provocation from the Police won't be taken into consideration. I have read and re-read your post Bill and then was called to eat my fish and chips prepared by the fair hand of Mrs Bung so I have had time to prepare a response, I suspect I am older than you, I went to my first away game in 1961 and throughout the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's traveled to games all over the country around 60 odd away grounds and I have never ever had any experience remotely like yours, so I can only assume that you must put yourself into these positions, I have only ever been subjected to being escorted away from a ground once and that was at Reading when we lost 3-2 round about 2001 and that escort for me lasted less than 200 metres I just walked off with my mates to the city centre pubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby kellard hero Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 You will never ever win with anything regarding the Police.Just let them do there job but do not help them.That is what they get paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 You will never ever win with anything regarding the Police.Just let them do there job but do not help them.That is what they get paid for. Thats how innocent people get banged up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo7 Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 I have read and re-read your post Bill and then was called to eat my fish and chips prepared by the fair hand of Mrs Bung so I have had time to prepare a response, I suspect I am older than you, I went to my first away game in 1961 and throughout the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's traveled to games all over the country around 60 odd away grounds and I have never ever had any experience remotely like yours, so I can only assume that you must put yourself into these positions, I have only ever been subjected to being escorted away from a ground once and that was at Reading when we lost 3-2 round about 2001 and that escort for me lasted less than 200 metres I just walked off with my mates to the city centre pubs. That'll be right - just like the Brazilian on the Underground, the Kettle Victim at the G8 protest and the 96 at Hillsborough - they all brought it upon themselves Presumably you were lucky enough to miss Fellows Park in 1988, the Mem in 2007 and Cardiff earlier this Year? - just the first three that come to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old parkender Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 I have read and re-read your post Bill and then was called to eat my fish and chips prepared by the fair hand of Mrs Bung so I have had time to prepare a response, I suspect I am older than you, I went to my first away game in 1961 and throughout the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's traveled to games all over the country around 60 odd away grounds and I have never ever had any experience remotely like yours, so I can only assume that you must put yourself into these positions, I have only ever been subjected to being escorted away from a ground once and that was at Reading when we lost 3-2 round about 2001 and that escort for me lasted less than 200 metres I just walked off with my mates to the city centre pubs. Have to concur with bill on this one, I've been trapped in pubs unable to leave, had my drink knocked out out of my hand and forced to leave, been pushed in the back all the way to bramall lane by an officer wanting to get a reaction, threatened with batons, dogs and best of all kicked in the stomach by a mounted officer whilst sat on the wall by the park eating fish and chips! All in a days work for police on match duty, I've never complained and kind of accept it as part and parcel of going to football, I've also known several who have, like timbo, had a fruitless experience complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 You will never ever win with anything regarding the Police.Just let them do there job but do not help them.That is what they get paid for. So I trust you'd have the same attitude if (god forbid) you or your family were victim of a crime? In all honest, I wonder how many of the anti grass brigade have CRO numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i hate rovers Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 If you're out there causing trouble then you're not one of our own. You're a sad deluded fool who really should take a long hard look at themselves and realise they're being a tw*t you really are a plum!!! let the old bill do there own job....no time for grasses!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 That'll be right - just like the Brazilian on the Underground, the Kettle Victim at the G8 protest and the 96 at Hillsborough - they all brought it upon themselves Presumably you were lucky enough to miss Fellows Park in 1988, the Mem in 2007 and Cardiff earlier this Year? - just the first three that come to mind I have been to many games where there was real trouble and never once been caught up in it, Cardiff 1968ish, the Elm Park Reading riot during TC's days (although I suspect the police started that as well) and many many more including many during the 1st division days and yes I was at Fellowes Park, just walked on by not a hint of trouble pour moi. Have to concur with bill on this one, I've been trapped in pubs unable to leave, had my drink knocked out out of my hand and forced to leave, been pushed in the back all the way to bramall lane by an officer wanting to get a reaction, threatened with batons, dogs and best of all kicked in the stomach by a mounted officer whilst sat on the wall by the park eating fish and chips! All in a days work for police on match duty, I've never complained and kind of accept it as part and parcel of going to football, I've also known several who have, like timbo, had a fruitless experience complaining. Again I have to say never ever been my experience, of course if you chose to stand nearby rubber necking when the trouble starts you are going to end up as fair game, I had 2 golden rules if I was with my son when he was very young or my dad when he was older, wait until the ground was almost empty, let the tossers go and have nice leisurely walk to wherever we were going, why would you want be part of the crush FFS, especially at the front of that crush and rule 2 if I was just with mates just nonchalantly walk past police trying to form up an escort and never stand by and watch the trouble unfold and only got stopped once in all of those years and that was as I said Reading 2001 and my mates and I turned right when the escort left, I really found it that simple, in fact even at Eastville I never once ended up in being escorted anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 you really are a plum!!! let the old bill do there own job....no time for grasses!! You would not grass under any circumstances whatsoever then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby kellard hero Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 The anti grass brigade as you call it are probably people who have had bad experiences with the police in the past as I have had.The problem with the police is that they are unable to tell the difference between a football supporter and a troublemaker so you just get treated like rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall King Blox Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 Basically we're aloud across to Legoland by train this yer as there is no bubble. Since most of us will go on the train as it is so cheap we need to organise what train we're all going to get. Either catch the train from Temple meads or Filton, we need to organise what time we're all going to get so we can pack the train out. Tell anybody you think might be interested in going and let's try to fill this train UP THE CITY. personally I think the most popular trains are going to be the ones arriving into Cardiff around 9am. We are going to head to the Prince of Wales pub straight from the station 5 minute walk. That is where we are all going to meet. So if you're going to Cardiff by train why not join us and make an atmosphere/ 11.80 return from temple meds n bout 11.00 return from Filton. Here are the 3 trains we are considering getting. Leaving Bristol TM at 07.54 arriving in cardiff at 8.43 this train also stops at Filton abbeywood at 8.01 or Leaving Bristol TM at 8.20 stopping at Filton at 8.30 arriving in Cardiff at 9.21 or Leaving Bristol TM at 8.54 arriving in cardiff at 9.43 this train also stops at Filton abbeywood at 9.01 You tell me which train you think and we'll all travel up together and mke some noise. Thank you for your comments Police Inspector Dibble of Bristol,s finest ( from Arn ) They never had a clue, FFS why all the bitchin....move on people, we came, we saw and were beaten, on the pitch and on the streets, not by the soul-less crew but by a well informed Hedlu...my ribs still hurt, not worried, my pic aint there ! Sadly i forgot the facebook page, next time wear masks.....titter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 The anti grass brigade as you call it are probably people who have had bad experiences with the police in the past as I have had.The problem with the police is that they are unable to tell the difference between a football supporter and a troublemaker so you just get treated like rubbish. Let's put this grass crap to bed once and for all, many many years I met a guy in a Bristol pub (somebody I knew in passing) he was 73 years old dying of a heart condition but still working as a cleaner to support his daughter. He told me that he had spent 39 years of his life in prison mainly on Dartmoor, he further told me one particular 9 year stretch (that's when if you got 9 years you served 9 years) could have been cut to 3 or less if he gave up his accomplice, but back then it was not the done thing and he said "I know he would do the same and has done the same for me". He also told me that he would always give information to the police on certain crimes and without any hesitation and then he finally said "could you imagine the mainly drug fueled cowards who commit crimes today, they would give up their own grandmothers to stay out of prison". The guy was an old time 'wester' and was not in any way bitter, over that year he told me many stories about his life and how it could have been different had he not been Jack the lad, he died later that year. One story he did tell me involved a professional footballer another born and bred wester, who even at the height of his distinguished career was 'at it' most weekends, the good news is he played for another team in Bristol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 pongo88, on 31 May 2013 - 11:39 AM, said: There are a few comments about not grassing on City fans. Firstly, if they are guilty, then they are not really City fans. They are just hooligans. If they are not guilty of anything, then they will be cleared. Second, it’s because of the trouble caused at Cardiff matches by hooligans that the bubble travel arrangement was imposed. No one wants the bubble, so if you want normal travel arrangements when we next play Cardiff, the hooligans have got to go. Why is it that being a hooligan automatically means you aren't a City fan? Surely one can be both? That is a good point that never gets asked. I think you need to take it in context. If someone is smashing up a pub, for example, then that has nothing to do with football and they are just a hooligan. If they then go to a match and support their team without any violence then they become a football fan. If they support their team and, for example, attack an opposition supporter without provocation, then they must be both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall King Blox Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 One story he did tell me involved a professional footballer another born and bred wester, who even at the height of his distinguished career was 'at it' most weekends, the good news is he played for another team in Bristol. Damn you frenchies, almost spill the beans then leave me hanging....spill those beans, you know there heavy, be a grass !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 pongo88, on 31 May 2013 - 11:39 AM, said: If they are not guilty of anything, then they will be cleared.. Specialist subject: Endearing naivety. Specialist subject: Endearing naivety. I was actually trying to be tactful and not imply they are guilty just because their pictures have been published. You can’t move an inch without being on CCTV so I assume that these pictures have come from a CCTV camera(s). It’s possible of course that the people concerned were actually in the pub having a quiet game of dominoes. On the other hand, they might have actually done something rather more serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo7 Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 I have been to many games where there was real trouble and never once been caught up in it, Cardiff 1968ish, the Elm Park Reading riot during TC's days (although I suspect the police started that as well) and many many more including many during the 1st division days and yes I was at Fellowes Park, just walked on by not a hint of trouble pour moi. You've done well or been lucky - I have always adopted a similar policy but should not have to - hence I only cite my three favourite examples To have avoided problems at Fellowes Park (thanks for the correction) you must have either left early or been away from the centre of the terrace when the Police decided it was a good place to exercise the horses before we had left - it was simply not possible to avoid them To avoid the Police at the Mem you simply had to stay at home - CS Gas is a pretty indiscriminate weapon and although I walked straight through the cordon a Cardiff station on arrival I could not avoid the silly game of provocation after the final whistle until my persistent questioning of the legal grounds for their actions eventually bored them into releasing me, after I refused the offer of a lift in one of their vans. Although there is some truth in what you say - the reason a small minority of us can usually remain unharmed is simply and only because we are a small minority. If everyone but the troublesome few made efforts to avoid, those efforts would prove futile. In regard to the nonsense about "grassing" we need to distinguish between a situation where we know a crime has been committed and have some faith that the justice system might provide a fair hearing AND the opposite situation at or around a football match when we have all witnessed the police provocation and can have no faith in a police force motivated by the need to justify their over-zealous actions. Bringing the "guilty" to justice (if that is on offer) after Cardiff will encourage rather than discourage a repeat of the day's events as the Police will rely on the convictions to call the operation a "success" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 Why don't we just let the lovely police force do their own dirty, work. Incapable, lazy, hypocritical thugs. Ps; "no comment". The best advice my solicitor gave me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 THIS This what? Care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 You've done well or been lucky - I have always adopted a similar policy but should not have to - hence I only cite my three favourite examples To have avoided problems at Fellowes Park (thanks for the correction) you must have either left early or been away from the centre of the terrace when the Police decided it was a good place to exercise the horses before we had left - it was simply not possible to avoid them To avoid the Police at the Mem you simply had to stay at home - CS Gas is a pretty indiscriminate weapon and although I walked straight through the cordon a Cardiff station on arrival I could not avoid the silly game of provocation after the final whistle until my persistent questioning of the legal grounds for their actions eventually bored them into releasing me after I refused the offer of a lift in one of their vans. Although there is some truth in what you say - the reason a small minority of us can usually remain unharmed it is simply and only because we are a small minority. If everyone but the troublesome few made efforts to avoid those efforts would prove futile. In regard to the nonsense about "grassing" we need to distinguish between a situation where we know a crime has been committed and have some faith that the justice system might provide a fair hearing AND the opposite situation at or around a football match when we have all witnessed the police provocation and can have no faith in a police force motivated by the need to justify their over-zealous actions. Bringing the "guilty" to justice (if that is on offer) after Cardiff will encourage rather than discourage a repeat of the day's events as the Police will rely on the convictions to call the operation a "success" it's pure hypocrisy my friend, people are portraying 'grassing' as some sort of badge of honour that should be one of life's basic rules, when in reality most if not all would grass their own grannies to save their own arses and then bizarrely the same people criticise the police when they back each other up and don't grass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 You've done well or been lucky - I have always adopted a similar policy but should not have to - hence I only cite my three favourite examples To have avoided problems at Fellowes Park (thanks for the correction) you must have either left early or been away from the centre of the terrace when the Police decided it was a good place to exercise the horses before we had left - it was simply not possible to avoid them To avoid the Police at the Mem you simply had to stay at home - CS Gas is a pretty indiscriminate weapon and although I walked straight through the cordon a Cardiff station on arrival I could not avoid the silly game of provocation after the final whistle until my persistent questioning of the legal grounds for their actions eventually bored them into releasing me, after I refused the offer of a lift in one of their vans. Although there is some truth in what you say - the reason a small minority of us can usually remain unharmed is simply and only because we are a small minority. If everyone but the troublesome few made efforts to avoid, those efforts would prove futile. In regard to the nonsense about "grassing" we need to distinguish between a situation where we know a crime has been committed and have some faith that the justice system might provide a fair hearing AND the opposite situation at or around a football match when we have all witnessed the police provocation and can have no faith in a police force motivated by the need to justify their over-zealous actions. Bringing the "guilty" to justice (if that is on offer) after Cardiff will encourage rather than discourage a repeat of the day's events as the Police will rely on the convictions to call the operation a "success" Fair play. I've never read such horse shit in all my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke_bristol Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 I've crossed the street I live on thousands of times without incident. The other day, the lady up the road was hit by a car. Must have been her fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo7 Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 pongo88, on 31 May 2013 - 11:39 AM, said: There are a few comments about not grassing on City fans. Firstly, if they are guilty, then they are not really City fans. They are just hooligans. If they are not guilty of anything, then they will be cleared. Second, it’s because of the trouble caused at Cardiff matches by hooligans that the bubble travel arrangement was imposed. No one wants the bubble, so if you want normal travel arrangements when we next play Cardiff, the hooligans have got to go. You make some good points Away from such occasions I am sure most of us would do (and do) what we can to control the threat of vandalism, thuggery and mindless violence, even to the extent of assisting the police in bringing the guilty to justice. The problem comes when faced with a crowd, the police determine that we are all guilty and need to be punished before a crime has been committed - there is no surer self-fulfilling prophecy. If you fancy a ruck - try a flash-point football match because the police will surely be up for one Heavy-handed policing always incites trouble wherever it is practiced and therefore always attracts trouble-makers - if we want to travel to Cardiff to see City (if we get another chance) without this nonsense - it is the nonsense that must go - until it does it will always create its own justification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo7 Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 Fair play. I've never read such horse shit in all my life. Thank you - I would suggest you read more though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langford Red Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 Get a life What is wrong with you? Nobody likes hooligans But dont go down this road Everybody hates a grass The Police will do the job they are paid for Would you be so sympathetic,if you got caught slightly over speeding by a policeman hiding with a camera? , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 31, 2013 Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 Get a life What is wrong with you? Nobody likes hooligans But dont go down this road Everybody hates a grass The Police will do the job they are paid for Would you be so sympathetic,if you got caught slightly over speeding by a policeman hiding with a camera? , So I ask again, You would not grass under any circumstances whatsoever then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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