Papa Cisse

[Rob k]

I understand how they can appear deceptive. the comparisons between Wonga and a casino are small, I know exactly the odds in a Casino and I can play knowing the odds.

Wonga and their like destroy people lives and make massive profit in doing do, thats profit for them, tragedy for the persons they just exploited.

People can make their own choices in life, all this talk of exploitation is bollox, people are aware of how much they have to pay back just the same as any other loan, it's up to them if they choose to take up the offer or not.

[Monkeh]

Just being in a casino is an offence to Islam so to say he is not warring Wonga on his short for religious reasons makes him a hypocrite

[Fodbarmyarmy]

Where do wonga get there money from, what bank has lent it to them?

Now you are getting into a different , but none the less important, subject....

Go back a few years to the start of the economic crash caused by the banks iresponsible lending ,,,,,the first thing the authorities did was hurt their turnover by stopping them lending to any Tom, Dick or Harry and making the credit "rules" watertight..........well the payday companies are the leak,,,,,sprung by those with influence on the banking leaders....... profiteering at its worst...

[sglosbcfc]

'Throw not yourself into ruin with your own hands' - clear teaching in the Qur'an. It is haram (forbidden) for a Muslim to gamble or to drink alcohol.

My understanding was that Cisse refused to wear Wonga on his shirt because of his adherence to Islam. He has made himself look stupid if he is then in a casino gambling. If nothing else it has given ammunication to those that will say he is simply trying to engineer a move away from Newcastle. The Mags other Muslims like Cabaye have not rejected wearing the shirt as they say it is a club decision and not theirs. That seems sensible to me, otherwise you could have Muslims refusing to play for clubs with alcohol sponsers etc, it would get stupid.

[grifty]

To control people and centralise power and wealth in a few old men usually. But that's probably for another thread.Reconcile Jesus smashing up money lenders' stalls in a temple with the Vatican Bank being the largest landowner in the world... this stuff is rife in every religion, so how can anybody take any of them seriously?Why is it ok for Newcastle to help a company that exploits the poor get more exposure with their fans? I'd be livid if that were us.

Behave, they don't exploit people. It's all over their adverts and literature that their APR is 6000% or whatever it is. If people are too stupid to use them don't blame the company. I've got no sympathy for people who use these payday loan companies then moan about the interest. They know what the have to pay back.

[MarcusX]

Behave, they don't exploit people. It's all over their adverts and literature that their APR is 6000% or whatever it is. If people are too stupid to use them don't blame the company. I've got no sympathy for people who use these payday loan companies then moan about the interest. They know what the have to pay back.

It's not the interest rates that are the issue, it's the fact that once a bank has told a person there's nothing more they can do (and rightly so) because a persons credit rating is so bad, these companies are still willing to lend to them! They have absolutely no standards about who they lend to and of course desperate people are going to use then if they are the only people that will actually lend to them!

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

To be honest you cant really tell If its him from the picture up on here

[TinnionForEngland]

The casino confirmed he is a visitor there.

[dezgimed]

I feel a bit of deja vu; this story was discussed on this forum weeks ago.. has something new come along on it?

It always helps to read a thread title and then read the actual content rather than skimming and posting based on that skim, I find...

[chipdawg]

On Cisse, I think both his agent and several of his Muslim team mates have all but confirmed it's a religious stance, which is a bit ridiculous as the "contrary to Islam" part, as far as I can tell, is to do with the charging of or profiting from, interest paid on a sum of money. So the difference between Wonga and Virgin Money, as others have pointed out, is negligible. Add to that his presence even in a casino is going to deprive him of a lot of virgins when he gets to heaven, I think a genuine religious objection seems unlikely. So let's think about a moral objection; he's not objecting to Wonga sponsoring the club, he's objecting to Wonga being on his shirt. Surely a far more effective protest would have been to speak about the dangers of this form of money lending rather than allow it to be presented as a religious objection? He must know that that is the conclusion the press have arrived at?

On the subject of pay-day money lenders, I have two words: Personal Responsibility. This form of lending fills a place in the market that banks are not prepared to. APR is a terrible way of presenting the charges but is required by law, but I'm sure there are thousands of people that use these firms that require small sums of money for a short period of time and have the facility to pay them back. That's not to say they always lend responsibly and that their advertising isn't targeted towards people who perhaps don't have the facility to pay it back, but we live in a society where people are supposed to take some level of responsibility for their actions. I certainly think that if we're calling pay day lenders 'scum' then casinos, where the games are designed for you to lose and the booze is cheap and plentiful, most certainly are

[The Casual Connoisseur]

It is all to do with religion. Have you read the link? You cant pick and choose with religious beliefs, it's all or nothing, otherwise why have religion atall?

Well said that man, although I don't think you'll find a catholic that abides to those rules.

[Jordan Tansley]

personal responsibilty sums it up perfectly. If you use it and cant repay it you deserve all the hardship that comes with it.

[cheese]

personal responsibilty sums it up perfectly. If you use it and cant repay it you deserve all the hardship that comes with it.

Ah yes indeed. But, have you ever found yourself in a truly desperate situation? The mind plays funny tricks with your logic and reasoning when you are.

[Jordan Tansley]

Ah yes indeed. But, have you ever found yourself in a truly desperate situation? The mind plays funny tricks with your logic and reasoning when you are.

course it does, but still the comsequences are well advertised and there is no excuse for not.knowing.

My family have never been flush for cash, but when we're skint we cut back and make do.

[chipdawg]

Ah yes indeed. But, have you ever found yourself in a truly desperate situation? The mind plays funny tricks with your logic and reasoning when you are.

I kind of agree with you, but by that logic all alcohol should be banned as people often turn to drink in desperation. Similarly, gambling should be illegal as people may make the bad call to bet the last of their money on a 'sure thing'.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

I kind of agree with you, but by that logic all alcohol should be banned as people often turn to drink in desperation. Similarly, gambling should be illegal as people may make the bad call to bet the last of their money on a 'sure thing'.

I'd ban cigarettes, booze & gambling if I had my way, you only need to see the statistics of related deaths of the first 2 to realise what an unnecessary strain on resources they are.

[chipdawg]

I'd ban cigarettes, booze & gambling if I had my way, you only need to see the statistics of related deaths of the first 2 to realise what an unnecessary strain on resources they are.

Cigarettes I can't really argue with- and I'm someone who enjoys the occasional tab with my pint. However, the vast number of users of bookies or people having a drink do so responsibly and within manageable limits. There is a balance to be struck between state protection of the individual and civil liberty and banning those three things outright would push us close to the oppressive police states we see in parts of the middle east and Asia. Also, you only have to look at prior attempts at prohibition to see that people will still get booze, but that associated crime will rocket and people will get very ill from drinking very poor quality alcohol

[Jordan Tansley]

I'd ban cigarettes, booze & gambling if I had my way, you only need to see the statistics of related deaths of the first 2 to realise what an unnecessary strain on resources they are.

Cider is exempt of course?

[TinnionForEngland]

With regards to gambling, i don't believe Online gambling websites should exist, bloody dangerous stuff, luckily i've never felt the urge.

[spudski]

I'd ban cigarettes, booze & gambling if I had my way, you only need to see the statistics of related deaths of the first 2 to realise what an unnecessary strain on resources they are.

I'd go one further than that... I'd ban shirt sponsorship on Football shirts fullstop.... I can't stand it. I just want Club badge, number and players name on back.

Re Ciggies, booze and gambling... it always amazes me how many ex footballers turn to these during and after playing...quiet a high percentage compared to many other Professional sports people.

Maybe it's instilled from boredom with the amount of free time they have and dispossible income.

So many other Sports people have no time at all... it's 'Full time' training... something I wish Football Clubs would change.

[Monkeh]

Wrong, it's praying on the poorest in society, greedy bankers are still at it, they will be going the same way as the other scum such as the Injury claim companies, kick 'em out.

I hate wonga, but its clear as day what they offer there APR is well published on their adverts and they don't force people to take loans out with them,

Its not Wonga you should be aiming your anger at its this tory govenment who have overseen the biggest austurty period ever recorded as well as the biggest reduction on living standards and their class warfare,

[chipdawg]

I'd go one further than that... I'd ban shirt sponsorship on Football shirts fullstop.... I can't stand it. I just want Club badge, number and players name on back.

Re Ciggies, booze and gambling... it always amazes me how many ex footballers turn to these during and after playing...quiet a high percentage compared to many other Professional sports people.

Maybe it's instilled from boredom with the amount of free time they have and dispossible income.

So many other Sports people have no time at all... it's 'Full time' training... something I wish Football Clubs would change.

I agree with the principal of a ban on shirt advertising but aside from the fact that some small clubs probably couldn't operate without that revenue, sometimes the sponsors name makes the shirt or certainly improves it's look. It's something that's been with us for a long time now (it's certainly not purely a Premier League-era thing) and I can't see that it'll change

The difference between football and sports such as athletics is that event-based sports are building towards individual events. Footballers have to do it twice a week over 9 months, whereas a sprinter has to be at his peak for 10 seconds every couple of weeks. I do agree that footballers should have less time though, they should be engaged 9-5, 5 days a week like the rest of us, doing community work, coaching, etc.

[TinnionForEngland]

To the person who said they wern't sure it was Cisse (When it was obvious it was)

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Just like most so called deeply religious people cherry picking the bits of their particular religion that suit their particular aims at any particular point in their lives, in his case almost certainly getting out of his present contract for a lucrative transfer, next time it may well be gambling when he will refuse to wear a shirt bearing a casino sponsor because an even better offer has emerged.

The good news is hopefully clubs will now ask at the contract stage whether or not anything presently associated with the club that the deeply religious player would find a conflict of interest.

if only it was so easy to oust a lazy, useless, overpaid player from his contract.

[CheddarReds]

Short term loans is a different concept to gambling, Cisse to be commended for taking a stand against those exploiting the poor or those who need quick cash, if he choses to fritter away some of his high earnings, good for him.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Short term loans is a different concept to gambling, Cisse to be commended for taking a stand against those exploiting the poor or those who need quick cash, if he choses to fritter away some of his high earnings, good for him.

and you really believe that is what he is doing?, both are against the teachings of his religion but he cherry picks one and not the other, not what i'd call devout.

PS:- of course gambling addictions have never caused hardship within families?.

and both are entered into voluntarily, whether we agree with them or not.

[downendcity]

There are quite a few examples of religious people taking a stand on principle. Probably the most famous being Eric Liddle ( wouldn't race on a Sunday - Chariot's of Fire)

I think I'm right in that the Moslem faith forbids them being charged interest or earning interest on financial products, so this is probably the principal he's arguing for not wearing the sponsors shirt and could also understand if he was morally offended by the type of loans involved.

However, Cisse has the problem that anyone prominently in the public eye has when taking a moral stand. He can't chose one of his religious principles over which to make a stand but conveniently ignore another when I comes to his private life because he then becomes a hypocrite and this in turn makes a mockery of the stand he has taken.

Like many others, my feeling is that his "stand" over the sponsors shirt was a strategy to force Newcastle's hand and help him engineer a move, probably involving big money for him.

The devil in me would like to know what he would do with a big signing on fee. Does he check with his agent/financial adviser to make sure his wealth is not invested in financial products that compromise his religious beliefs?

[spudski]

I agree with the principal of a ban on shirt advertising but aside from the fact that some small clubs probably couldn't operate without that revenue, sometimes the sponsors name makes the shirt or certainly improves it's look. It's something that's been with us for a long time now (it's certainly not purely a Premier League-era thing) and I can't see that it'll change

The difference between football and sports such as athletics is that event-based sports are building towards individual events. Footballers have to do it twice a week over 9 months, whereas a sprinter has to be at his peak for 10 seconds every couple of weeks. I do agree that footballers should have less time though, they should be engaged 9-5, 5 days a week like the rest of us, doing community work, coaching, etc.

Totally... Footballers don't need to be running around or in the Gym full time...but it wouldn't hurt spending their afternoons ingraining technical skills. The likes of Beckham and Jonny Wilkinson spent extra hours honing their skills outside of normal training hours to perfect their art... something a lot of footballers should do imho. The amount of footballers I've seen in recent years who can't control a ball or pass correctly is astonishing... yet they're all fit as a fiddle.

I'd personally like to see the size of sponsorship on shirts reduced if they won't get rid of it... yes I understand the financial benefits... but it's not for the Clubs benefit..purely the players wages...which keep going up and up and more clubs still go into the red.

[Nibor]

Much like Casino's then really.

Not really. They are designed to take money from people I agree. If they have a bias it would be towards taking from the rich not the poor - purely because it's easier to make more.

Behave, they don't exploit people. It's all over their adverts and literature that their APR is 6000% or whatever it is. If people are too stupid to use them don't blame the company. I've got no sympathy for people who use these payday loan companies then moan about the interest. They know what the have to pay back.

You've got no problem with stupid or just poorly educated people being exploited?

Do you realise how many people don't understand what an APR is? They're trained to just click through the terms and conditions because they're written in a language nobody understands. When was the last time you actually read a credit agreement?

They often don't know what the consequences are at all, and these companies have a whole business model based on people not paying back on time.

[dezgimed]

Not really. They are designed to take money from people I agree. If they have a bias it would be towards taking from the rich not the poor - purely because it's easier to make more.

You've got no problem with stupid or just poorly educated people being exploited?

Do you realise how many people don't understand what an APR is? They're trained to just click through the terms and conditions because they're written in a language nobody understands. When was the last time you actually read a credit agreement?

They often don't know what the consequences are at all, and these companies have a whole business model based on people not paying back on time.

They don't need to understand APR, nobody takes out a payday loan for 365 days.

All they see is 'BORROW £150 AND PAY £30 INTEREST IN 1 MONTH'.

Clear as mud and plenty of people use it sensibly when needed. People who get exploited probably have overdrafts and regular credit cards maxed out too, same situation.