Relegation Looms

[BCFC_Mike]

I fail to see how nobody isn't concerned, bar the small few of us. Losing comfortably, 3-0 at home is a sign of worrying times, again.

To put things into perspective, if Coventry win tomorrow, they will go above us. And they started on -10 points FFS, and they barely have a home support.

The start we've made is nothing short of embarrassing, and I just can't see how anyone can deny that.

Oops.

[no_merde]

Oops.

Yep, hear that? It's reality knocking

[Aizoon]

Already have. Got £50 on at 18, which is considerably better odds that what you're offering there.

12/1 now, so Bet365 is rather less pessimistic than OTIB. Incidentally we've played 4 of the 8 teams rated at higher odds than us. Excluding Coventry, with their deduction, we've played just 1 of the 14 teams rated more likely to go down and drawn away.

All that would suggest that we've had a particularly difficult start, but don't let that dissuade the moaners

[no_merde]

If I had the psycic qualities you claim to have I'd be cleaning up of everybody I could. It's not like you have to front the cash is it? I don't understand why you wouldn't take 50 quid off me?

The only thing I can think of is maybe just maybe you have a bigger mouth than you do balls.

Are you numerically illiterate? I'll try again: Unless what you're offering is to lay relegation at £50 for a stake of less than £3.60 why would I wager with you?

(there's a good guide on Betfair.com that explains the concepts of odds, you may want to go and read that first before replying.)

[rednotblue]

Are you numerically illiterate? I'll try again: Unless what you're offering is to lay relegation at £50 for a stake of less than £3.60 why would I wager with you?

(there's a good guide on Betfair.com that explains the concepts of odds, you may want to go and read that first before replying.)

Correct we if i am wrong. You accept WTFIGO! wager and city go down. you win 50 quid on zero outlay.

If city stay up you lose 50 quid.

If you think city will go down then why would you not take the bet?

[rednotblue]

Again, where's the empirical proof that says we won't go down. Rather than a trite it's a bit OTT isnt it?

where is the evidence to say we will? Please dont say the games so far as that will mean we will win the paint pot trophy and the league cup (based on the games so far).

So we have started the season badly. when did we last start it well based on the first six games? I will worry in March if we are flirting with relegation.

[no_merde]

Correct we if i am wrong. You accept WTFIGO! wager and city go down. you win 50 quid on zero outlay.

If city stay up you lose 50 quid.

If you think city will go down then why would you not take the bet?

When you place a bet what you're doing is pricing risk. You have your return and you have the risk of that return not occurring. Currently the market is pricing that risk at c£3.60 for a £50 return. Your mate is offering a price c14 times that.

I'm sure you'll find some left wing economically illiterate socialist nut case who you'll be able to hood wink. I'll stick with the free market thanks.

[Southport Red]

It used to really irritate me that we had 'fans' who would surrender at Christmas.

That is starting to look wildly optimistic now!

If you say that we will get relegated and it is only September, then sorry, you not only look MONUMENTALLY stupid but ( and this is worse) a quitter.

[Southport Red]

, anyone dismissing the possibility of relegation should consider the following.

No one can dismiss the POSSIBILITY of relegation North London, but the OP was implying it is already probable, which it, by definition, isn't.

Anything is possible, but, despite the poor start, relegation is not certain and IMHO, is not even likely.

I agree with all your points but I don't see how the team is helped when people like the OP throw in the towel in September

[grifty]

Already have. Got £50 on at 18, which is considerably better odds that what you're offering there.

Hang on, you've put £50 on us to go down?! With that and this thread after 6 games, I'd say you want us to go down. We'd be better off without that negativity really!

Do you threaten divorce with your missus after an argument?

[Aizoon]

Hang on, you've put £50 on us to go down?! With that and this thread after 6 games, I'd say you want us to go down. We'd be better off without that negativity really!

Do you threaten divorce with your missus after an argument?

No. I sometimes bet against City or for the Gas, to ensure that we win or they lose.

[no_merde]

Hang on, you've put £50 on us to go down?! With that and this thread after 6 games, I'd say you want us to go down. We'd be better off without that negativity really!

Do you threaten divorce with your missus after an argument?

Hahaha

No, it's more complicated than that. I have a number of bets on across exchanges so that I can exploit arbitrage opportunities. Any one position is never indicative of my overall holdings

[Son of Fred]

Posted this at the end of last season.

Got the normal load of abuse from the happy clappers: "he's a gas head", "unwashed numbskull", "figurerean"

Well, I don't look so stupid now do I?

This club seems to inhabit the world of "hope for the best"; new ticket system: (a) test it properly or (b) just install it and hope for the best, best manager in 30yrs going through rough patch: (a) support him or (b) sack him and hope for the best.

What we need to do is get some ******* reality in here.

We are in the shit and it is real.

It's been a tough start,as predicted by some,so not shocked we have struggled-but a bit early to hit the panic button.what I would like is to hear something from the "were at least play off material" brigade with their ridiculously blinkered over optimism.what is no surprise to me is what's on offer right now we should be delighted to end this campaign mid-table.

[Pickle Rick]

I will have £250 with you now we won't get relegated?

Happy to put money on it?

Will you bet him £250 though?

Or even £200?

£50 says you won't bet with him.

no_merde - you haven't responded yet...

If you're £50 quid sure you must be happy to shake on a bet that will earn you £250 extra as you're quite confident?!

And as mentioned, I'll bet you a further £50 (guaranteed) you won't agree on it.

I'll be more than happy to pay you £50 extra if you see this through until the end of the season whether we stay up/go down, as long as £250 has been exchanged end of season.

So me, plus S.Bcity = £300 if you go down.

You pay £250 from S.Bcity if we stay up and I'll pay you £50.

[Cunnyfunt]

But we arent likely to face any better sides than what we have so far. Things will get better believe!

Apart from when we play them again. .. I believe we will finish around 12th position. I'm pretty sure we will start to pick up some wins against the lower sides now a few of the tougher fixtures are out the way. Just a tad early to be discussing the R word at this stage I agree.

[no_merde]

no_merde - you haven't responded yet...

If you're £50 quid sure you must be happy to shake on a bet that will earn you £250 extra as you're quite confident?!

And as mentioned, I'll bet you a further £50 (guaranteed) you won't agree on it.

I'll be more than happy to pay you £50 extra if you see this through until the end of the season whether we stay up/go down, as long as £250 has been exchanged end of season.

So me, plus S.Bcity = £300 if you go down.

You pay £250 from S.Bcity if we stay up and I'll pay you £50.

My god, no wonder this country is in such a mess...

Right, so you're going to pay me £50 right now to take a £250 bet with someone that I can lay elsewhere at 8/1?

knock yourself out. Here's my paypal account: no_merde@hushmail.com

[Pickle Rick]

My god, no wonder this country is in such a mess...

Right, so you're going to pay me £50 right now to take a £250 bet with someone that I can lay elsewhere at 8/1?

knock yourself out. Here's my paypal account: no_merde@hushmail.com

Yea this country is in a mess indeed.

If you could read, then I said you can have the money at the end of the season.

So rather than pissing round the pot and not answering the question (again). Are you up to it?

Tried to explain it nice and clear but you still didn't manage to reply sufficiently.

Thanks for being part of the functional problem in this country.

Think about a college course, you'll get maths, English & ICT integrated into your selected subject to help you function in life

By now S.Bcity is justifying your ridiculous idea to bet on us going down this season...

[WTFiGO!?!]

Are you numerically illiterate? I'll try again: Unless what you're offering is to lay relegation at £50 for a stake of less than £3.60 why would I wager with you?

(there's a good guide on Betfair.com that explains the concepts of odds, you may want to go and read that first before replying.)

you are a more serious gambler than me, granted.

My point was, as you're cock-sure enough that we're going down as to jump the gun after six games and declare you told us so after a post you made in July I'd have thought it'd been a given you'd take £50 of a 'dreamer' like me. Didn't mean to get into the intricacies of odds but never mind. I am, for the record, comfortably in the black since gambling on-line. Albeit it small sums.

As for your opening post, it is as ridiculous as someone predicting a 0-0 draw an after a goalless first 5 minutes of the game turning to his mate and saying I told you so.

Anyway, time will tell.

[leadman]

Tuesday is big, ill give you that.

[Son of Fred]

We'll finish comfortably inside the top 10 at the very least, maybe even nicking a playoff spot. I believe in this team and I believe in our manager.

?..are you a full or part time comedian??..trust me my friend,we will be finishing closer to the cut-off point at the other end.

[Spike]

Posted this at the end of last season.

Got the normal load of abuse from the happy clappers: "he's a gas head", "unwashed numbskull", "figurerean"

Well, I don't look so stupid now do I?

This club seems to inhabit the world of "hope for the best"; new ticket system: (a) test it properly or (b) just install it and hope for the best, best manager in 30yrs going through rough patch: (a) support him or (b) sack him and hope for the best.

What we need to do is get some ******* reality in here.

We are in the shit and it is real.

OK so you want reality?

Well here goes, we've spent years riding the "we'll be ok with the club as it is" wave and it's done major damage, damage that isn't undone by being relegated but only further damages the club, nothing is going to be an easy fix now but we have taken the first correct steps to start that change.

Youth will pay off in the long run, just look at Coventry, they started off 10 points behind us and are already on the same points as us, their real issue is finance, that's something we don't have an issue with and so we have put in the first few supports that this club so drastically needs. If Coventry can achieve what they have with youth and no money then it stands that we can do a lot better with youth, our academy and much better finances.

We still have rot in the club, Elliot may put in the odd performance but I bet he is massively over paid, we still need to get rid of a few to balance the books and allow us to get the rebuild of the squad completed. Which brings me onto the squad, players and the manager:

The very first game this season we played a team full of confidence after just being promoted, our next league game was Coventry which was a crazy game undone by Fontaine who has now moved on. So our first two league games? A team who technically have 17 points and should be second in the league and a newly promoted team who are sat one place outside the play offs.

After those games we had Wolves who have a much stronger squad and are still having nice Premiership parachute payments, we lost the game by a single goal and Wolves currently sit in third place. Then we played MK Dons who again, top 6 and have a team who have been playing together for a good amount of time, another strong team in this league, we got a point away, that's a good result even if we could have won it. Gillingham away in my eyes is the only bad result we've had and we should have won that game and our last game was Peterborough who are second and scoring for fun!

So, the realism of it all is that we've lost and drawn with the stronger teams in the league, the must win games are the next three or four league games as they are against the not so strong teams but we still have to take into consideration that we still don't have a settled/gelled squad. We've had a near full rebuild since last season and if you've ever played football you'll know that a change in philosophy and personnel means needing time to get everything working as it should and even more time to get used to your teammates.

As much as we think football is all about professionals it's not just the professional side that effects the results, it's also friendships and knowing your team mates. It'll take time for the squad to form new friendships, get to know each other on and off the pitch and learn their strengths and weaknesses, most teams in this league are already there, we're not. You can see by watching the team play that from time to time there is confusion and a lack cohesion, that'll come with time.

I think SOD has us playing football again and that for me is a strong plus, we've been playing terrible football for so long that I almost forgot it was possible to go to the Gate and see us play passing football! In time a good passing team will get stronger and stronger and start beating teams, we've had a tough start and we've got young, unexperienced players out there and so it's obvious we're not going to hit the ground running. Coventry last season drew their first 3 games and followed up with 5 consecutive losses and looked certain for relegation, they finished 14th after having 10 points deducted and would have finished 9th had those 10 points not been taken. This season as I mentioned earlier they would be second if it wasn't for the point deduction they have had again meaning if we were to follow suit only without the financial issues we could all be singing a different tune next season.

I'm not saying we are Coventry but I what I am saying is our fans need to wake up and stop enjoying wallowing in their own misery. Happy clapper am I? Hell no, I'm just as fed up as anyone else at losing and drawing and going so long without a league win but I can see a future under O'Driscoll so long as our fans actually get behind the rebuild.

If we don't back SOD we can end up in a bad situation of a rebuild not finished with a philosophy and play style that the replacing manager may not embrace or be able to execute meaning another rebuild again, that's when we really would be in trouble as we'd have to start all over again.

I think our fans loved GJ so much because the majority are short sighted, we always dream of being better but don't want to go through the process it takes to get to that stage and the trial and error involved. Just look at Swansea, it took a lot of years of building for them to find the right combination and structure to get them where they are now.

My view on SOD is that his vision is a three year to four year thing, it'll take that long to really change the mentality of the club, the staff, the players and maybe a lot longer for the fans judging by some of the over reactions. That said I can see the impatience of the fans driving SOD out in the long run and the rebuild will fail because of this leaving us in a far worse situation, or at least that's my fear after reading some of the things I read on here.

[mikebrenn]

OK so you want reality?

Well here goes, we've spent years riding the "we'll be ok with the club as it is" wave and it's done major damage, damage that isn't undone by being relegated but only further damages the club, nothing is going to be an easy fix now but we have taken the first correct steps to start that change.

Youth will pay off in the long run, just look at Coventry, they started off 10 points behind us and are already on the same points as us, their real issue is finance, that's something we don't have an issue with and so we have put in the first few supports that this club so drastically needs. If Coventry can achieve what they have with youth and no money then it stands that we can do a lot better with youth, our academy and much better finances.

We still have rot in the club, Elliot may put in the odd performance but I bet he is massively over paid, we still need to get rid of a few to balance the books and allow us to get the rebuild of the squad completed. Which brings me onto the squad, players and the manager:

The very first game this season we played a team full of confidence after just being promoted, our next league game was Coventry which was a crazy game undone by Fontaine who has now moved on. So our first two league games? A team who technically have 17 points and should be second in the league and a newly promoted team who are sat one place outside the play offs.

After those games we had Wolves who have a much stronger squad and are still having nice Premier League parachute payments, we lost the game by a single goal and Wolves currently sit in third place. Then we played MK Dons who again, top 6 and have a team who have been playing together for a good amount of time, another strong team in this league, we got a point away, that's a good result even if we could have won it. Gillingham away in my eyes is the only bad result we've had and we should have won that game and our last game was Peterborough who are second and scoring for fun!

So, the realism of it all is that we've lost and drawn with the stronger teams in the league, the must win games are the next three or four league games as they are against the not so strong teams but we still have to take into consideration that we still don't have a settled/gelled squad. We've had a near full rebuild since last season and if you've ever played football you'll know that a change in philosophy and personnel means needing time to get everything working as it should and even more time to get used to your teammates.

As much as we think football is all about professionals it's not just the professional side that effects the results, it's also friendships and knowing your team mates. It'll take time for the squad to form new friendships, get to know each other on and off the pitch and learn their strengths and weaknesses, most teams in this league are already there, we're not. You can see by watching the team play that from time to time there is confusion and a lack cohesion, that'll come with time.

I think SOD has us playing football again and that for me is a strong plus, we've been playing terrible football for so long that I almost forgot it was possible to go to the Gate and see us play passing football! In time a good passing team will get stronger and stronger and start beating teams, we've had a tough start and we've got young, unexperienced players out there and so it's obvious we're not going to hit the ground running. Coventry last season drew their first 3 games and followed up with 5 consecutive losses and looked certain for relegation, they finished 14th after having 10 points deducted and would have finished 9th had those 10 points not been taken. This season as I mentioned earlier they would be second if it wasn't for the point deduction they have had again meaning if we were to follow suit only without the financial issues we could all be singing a different tune next season.

I'm not saying we are Coventry but I what I am saying is our fans need to wake up and stop enjoying wallowing in their own misery. Happy clapper am I? Hell no, I'm just as fed up as anyone else at losing and drawing and going so long without a league win but I can see a future under O'Driscoll so long as our fans actually get behind the rebuild.

If we don't back SOD we can end up in a bad situation of a rebuild not finished with a philosophy and play style that the replacing manager may not embrace or be able to execute meaning another rebuild again, that's when we really would be in trouble as we'd have to start all over again.

I think our fans loved GJ so much because the majority are short sighted, we always dream of being better but don't want to go through the process it takes to get to that stage and the trial and error involved. Just look at Swansea, it took a lot of years of building for them to find the right combination and structure to get them where they are now.

My view on SOD is that his vision is a three year to four year thing, it'll take that long to really change the mentality of the club, the staff, the players and maybe a lot longer for the fans judging by some of the over reactions. That said I can see the impatience of the fans driving SOD out in the long run and the rebuild will fail because of this leaving us in a far worse situation, or at least that's my fear after reading some of the things I read on here.

great post buddy.

[Taylor10]

OK so you want reality?

Well here goes, we've spent years riding the "we'll be ok with the club as it is" wave and it's done major damage, damage that isn't undone by being relegated but only further damages the club, nothing is going to be an easy fix now but we have taken the first correct steps to start that change.

Youth will pay off in the long run, just look at Coventry, they started off 10 points behind us and are already on the same points as us, their real issue is finance, that's something we don't have an issue with and so we have put in the first few supports that this club so drastically needs. If Coventry can achieve what they have with youth and no money then it stands that we can do a lot better with youth, our academy and much better finances.

We still have rot in the club, Elliot may put in the odd performance but I bet he is massively over paid, we still need to get rid of a few to balance the books and allow us to get the rebuild of the squad completed. Which brings me onto the squad, players and the manager:

The very first game this season we played a team full of confidence after just being promoted, our next league game was Coventry which was a crazy game undone by Fontaine who has now moved on. So our first two league games? A team who technically have 17 points and should be second in the league and a newly promoted team who are sat one place outside the play offs.

After those games we had Wolves who have a much stronger squad and are still having nice Premier League parachute payments, we lost the game by a single goal and Wolves currently sit in third place. Then we played MK Dons who again, top 6 and have a team who have been playing together for a good amount of time, another strong team in this league, we got a point away, that's a good result even if we could have won it. Gillingham away in my eyes is the only bad result we've had and we should have won that game and our last game was Peterborough who are second and scoring for fun!

So, the realism of it all is that we've lost and drawn with the stronger teams in the league, the must win games are the next three or four league games as they are against the not so strong teams but we still have to take into consideration that we still don't have a settled/gelled squad. We've had a near full rebuild since last season and if you've ever played football you'll know that a change in philosophy and personnel means needing time to get everything working as it should and even more time to get used to your teammates.

As much as we think football is all about professionals it's not just the professional side that effects the results, it's also friendships and knowing your team mates. It'll take time for the squad to form new friendships, get to know each other on and off the pitch and learn their strengths and weaknesses, most teams in this league are already there, we're not. You can see by watching the team play that from time to time there is confusion and a lack cohesion, that'll come with time.

I think SOD has us playing football again and that for me is a strong plus, we've been playing terrible football for so long that I almost forgot it was possible to go to the Gate and see us play passing football! In time a good passing team will get stronger and stronger and start beating teams, we've had a tough start and we've got young, unexperienced players out there and so it's obvious we're not going to hit the ground running. Coventry last season drew their first 3 games and followed up with 5 consecutive losses and looked certain for relegation, they finished 14th after having 10 points deducted and would have finished 9th had those 10 points not been taken. This season as I mentioned earlier they would be second if it wasn't for the point deduction they have had again meaning if we were to follow suit only without the financial issues we could all be singing a different tune next season.

I'm not saying we are Coventry but I what I am saying is our fans need to wake up and stop enjoying wallowing in their own misery. Happy clapper am I? Hell no, I'm just as fed up as anyone else at losing and drawing and going so long without a league win but I can see a future under O'Driscoll so long as our fans actually get behind the rebuild.

If we don't back SOD we can end up in a bad situation of a rebuild not finished with a philosophy and play style that the replacing manager may not embrace or be able to execute meaning another rebuild again, that's when we really would be in trouble as we'd have to start all over again.

I think our fans loved GJ so much because the majority are short sighted, we always dream of being better but don't want to go through the process it takes to get to that stage and the trial and error involved. Just look at Swansea, it took a lot of years of building for them to find the right combination and structure to get them where they are now.

My view on SOD is that his vision is a three year to four year thing, it'll take that long to really change the mentality of the club, the staff, the players and maybe a lot longer for the fans judging by some of the over reactions. That said I can see the impatience of the fans driving SOD out in the long run and the rebuild will fail because of this leaving us in a far worse situation, or at least that's my fear after reading some of the things I read on here.

Cracking post with some excellent points.

I completey agree about wallowing in our own self pity. Just because we have had many a bad year doesn't mean we have a god given right for things to change all of a sudden.

It's going to take time and patience and we need to try and look at the positives. When was the last time we had such a young squad? When was the last time two local youngsters both came through at the same time, looked the part and genuinely held their own in the first team?

OK so we don't have a lot to shout about right now but we do all have to try and be positive and realise unless we get behind the new plans, ideas and SOD then it could be like this for many more years.

Jeez I'm frustrated. More frustrated than I've ever been following City and we deserve more. But you don't always get what you deserve unfortunately. We just need to give this a chance.

[djb6162]

So just in case anybody had doubts of how stupid you are you have now left them with no such doubts.

The more cdiplomatic term is "better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt"

However on this occasion i am not sure that all doubt has been removed to be fair to the original poster.

From where i was sat on Saturday, there were a number of doubters in and around me.

Had the penalty been converted i think the final scoreline may have been worse by the way.

Also i am not that sure that Peterboro were the great footballing team that some had suggested they were... including SOD.

They were simply more organised and had a very clear game plan and two players upfront that they will do well to hold on to in L1.

I think SOD was right in a way, JET and Baldock were no match for what they had up front on the day.... but for me the problem sits deeper.

If we look at the formation at the end of the game, i was left confused and somewhat sympathetic for a number of those who had the misfortune to still be on the pitch for the final 12 minutes. Was that plan B ?

Two strikers, with JET pushed out wide (not a position i believe suits him at all), but we had forgotten to tell poor Wagstaff was was expected of him in that set up

he simply drifted further in field

Down the left i was equally confused with Joe, Greg and McLaughlin sort of doing similar jobs

Whilst o'connor did reasonably well at CB, he was left exposed for pace and positional sense on the third goal when he was moved to RB

Our only centrally focussed creative midfielder was Pack, he tried his best but was out-gunned.

The real tragedy of all of this is that its Mid September and i don't think SOD and Pembo know what the right combination or the best formation for the players at their disposal.

Until that becomes clear, confusion and disappointment will continue.and i think SOD has been trying to tell us that for some time.

Average sides like Shrewsbury could easily pull off wins against us purely on organisation alone.

It seems to me we need a plan B when we are losing 2-0 at home,

What was plan B Saturday... if there was one it escaped me.

[timothy bird]

During the summer the consensus on this forum appesrd to be 'as long as we start getting rid of the deadwood and replace it with young hungry players and start rebuilding and restructuring the club we'll put up with a few inconsistent/ poor results early on .yet predictably after the first really poor result the white flagd come out! I really wouldn't want to be in the trenches with some of my fellow city fans!

[bearded_red]

I personally feel any talk of relegation or wanting O'Driscoll sacked is nonsense and I still remain confident that he is the right man to take us forward and that we will still finish around 10th place which I predicted all along. I personally felt that even before the fixture list came out we would get off to a poor start this season and the tough beginning to the season made me even more confident that the early league tables could look pretty bleak. Out of the six games we have had two newly promoted teams (although Gillingham in fairness do look terrible), two of the tougher away games we will play (should have been made a hell of a lot easier by playing one of them at a neutral venue though) and Wolves and Peterborough that are just better than us, as tough as that is to admit about ******* Peterborough! I'm just as irritated as everybody else and I'm not saying we should all excuse six winless games, but I think it would be fairer to begin to judge us around Christmas.

I do however understand, although don't necessarily agree, with the negative assessments of SO'D that some have put on here over the weekend. I personally felt we were relegated in around November last year, let alone when McInnes finally got the chop and laying the blame for relegation at SO'D's door would be unfair in my view, but the way we crumbled at the end of last season was pathetic. Utterly shameful and I do feel O'Driscoll did escape some criticism for his team producing some incredibly poor displays just because we'd all given up the fight and were so used to rubbish every Saturday afternoon. The three teams we have beat this season are a Gillingham side that had made 7 changes from their league game the previous weekend, Crystal Palace reserves and a few players not even included in their 25 man squad (still a decent effort from a League 1 team and our only 90 minute performance) and the shower from north of the river that have also lost to such footballing powerhouses as Newport and Dagenham and Redbridge.

We can all talk about it not being his team at the end of last season and a young and much changed squad this year, and I make that fair enough, but not winning a league game since March 9th is poor however way you want to look at it. I would say that the vast majority of us know that we need to be patient, but how long can anybody's patience remain if we keep on failing to win a game on a Saturday afternoon. Apart from Saturday we have shown glimpses in every game we have played of being a good team and that is what is keeping me quietly confident we will turn this round sooner of later. However will people still be as patient and quick to abuse the O'Driscoll doubters should we fail to beat the might of Shrewsbury and Colchester in our next two home games while taking a beating at the County Ground in between?

As I said I'm fully behind O'Driscoll and think a lot of what he is doing is exactly what is required, but we still need to win a few games. If fans aren't given tangible signs of improvement on a Saturday afternoon than all the good things that do seem to be happening behind the scenes will be written off as just words. We have a run coming up now that should we take regular points from we can all relax a little and write this off as a slow start from a new team against some decent opposition, but should we go another month or two without winning a game than even I as someone who wanted O'Driscoll here for a long time and do believe he will take us forward would struggle to remain confident in backing him. The reality of football, whether you like it or not, is that the bottom line is what happens on a Saturday afternoon is ultimately what matters.

Patience is of course required, but it doesn't mean you have to try and defend appalling runs of form and hopeless performances on the pitch. (Although in my opinion Saturday was the first hopeless performance this season)

[Spike]

Spike rather than quoting everything in short. Some stuff

1. Coventry have had 10 managers,incl caretakers or otherwise in the last 3 or 4 years ( Im counting Thorn and Carsley x2 in that) . Steven Pressley has been in situ less long than SOD and has had a ground move (forced) administration and the SISU stuff to deal with, plus work on getting a team together and overhauled a 10 point deficit. He's managed that with 18 players out over the summer and only 2 players in.

Hes managed all that in 6 months, whilst we still flounder.

2. Everyone keeps mentioning that the teams we play are better or tough, but never gives an indication of where we are? Why is this? There are no aims and goals so with nothing to measure against, how do we come up with whose better or who isnt. At the start of the season everyone was equal on paper, yet at this stage people seem to be happy to say that 'everyone' is tough, but have no real quantifiers for it as they seek to justify why we've been so awful/

3. Passing football? you mean passing around the back four and then hoofing because we lack ideas and play to narrow, playing players out of position? that good football?

4. 3 years/4 years, with no aims or markers? That is complete and utter insanity. This club will never amount to owt like that because there is literally no impetus to get better and just to waddle on with no real laxidaizical purpose. Other teams have realistic set goals and targets, seems some are prepared to give all this time with no end goal in sight, just because it may happen. Or are you happy enough with the board's vision, which is currently again being ignored by the coaching staff..

1) Coventry are not my basis of a 1 vs 1 comparison, my point is they were forced to rely on youth and they made it work. Yes they have done it faster and with less resources but they've also had a whole season to prove what they can do and as I said last season was their first season down and they did the exact same bad start as us. Essentially we're in the same position they were and now they are turning it around which shows getting on SODs back right now is silly and a massive over reaction. The guy inherited a bunch of wasters and a near impossible task to fix, this is his first real season and he has a new squad who have barely played together and still has some dead wood he's pretty much forced to use. It's not a quick fix we're looking forward so our fans need to stop thinking so short term.

2) "On paper" means nothing, football isn't played on paper, it's played on and off of the pitch, it's played in the training ground as well as the stadium and right now we're behind almost every team in this league as we've gone for a full rebuild, other teams have been playing together for a long time, have a solid spine etc

I also don't think it's been "awful", we beat Palace and looked the much better team and we should have at least one win under our belt but have been a bit unfortunate or certain players have since left, one who particularly lost us a few games.

3) Yes passing football, yes we've played it long but we've also played some good football that we showed no signs at all of being able to do last year. Remember this is league One, the standard of "good passing football" is not going to be Barca-like, but we've definitely improved in terms of our competitiveness and I can see signs of turning things around even if you can't.

4) When did I say we had no goals, aims or markers? SOD has said already his aim is to change the philosophy of the club and that's what he is working on. Just because he hasn't laid out his entire plans for all to see it doesn't mean he doesn't have any, do you really think the board haven't got a clue what his plans are?! SOD and the board obviously know what they are aiming for and what their goals are and as much as you think as a fan we have some kind of right to know all of this we don't.

It's always the same with some of our fans, slate the manager when he isn't entertaining or getting results but the second he smiles and gets a few wins the tune changes! We've had so many managers but the one people always talk about in recent years is obviously GJ and it wasn't until the second half of the season that he saw any kind of positive results and look how that went on, he became loved for so long.

I enjoy a bit of debate on these forums and love to see what others think but it really does kill some of my passion for this club when I see how knee jerk some of our fans really can be.

[djb6162]

1) Coventry are not my basis of a 1 vs 1 comparison, my point is they were forced to rely on youth and they made it work. Yes they have done it faster and with less resources but they've also had a whole season to prove what they can do and as I said last season was their first season down and they did the exact same bad start as us. Essentially we're in the same position they were and now they are turning it around which shows getting on SODs back right now is silly and a massive over reaction. The guy inherited a bunch of wasters and a near impossible task to fix, this is his first real season and he has a new squad who have barely played together and still has some dead wood he's pretty much forced to use. It's not a quick fix we're looking forward so our fans need to stop thinking so short term.

2) "On paper" means nothing, football isn't played on paper, it's played on and off of the pitch, it's played in the training ground as well as the stadium and right now we're behind almost every team in this league as we've gone for a full rebuild, other teams have been playing together for a long time, have a solid spine etc

I also don't think it's been "awful", we beat Palace and looked the much better team and we should have at least one win under our belt but have been a bit unfortunate or certain players have since left, one who particularly lost us a few games.

3) Yes passing football, yes we've played it long but we've also played some good football that we showed no signs at all of being able to do last year. Remember this is league One, the standard of "good passing football" is not going to be Barca-like, but we've definitely improved in terms of our competitiveness and I can see signs of turning things around even if you can't.

4) When did I say we had no goals, aims or markers? SOD has said already his aim is to change the philosophy of the club and that's what he is working on. Just because he hasn't laid out his entire plans for all to see it doesn't mean he doesn't have any, do you really think the board haven't got a clue what his plans are?! SOD and the board obviously know what they are aiming for and what their goals are and as much as you think as a fan we have some kind of right to know all of this we don't.

It's always the same with some of our fans, slate the manager when he isn't entertaining or getting results but the second he smiles and gets a few wins the tune changes! We've had so many managers but the one people always talk about in recent years is obviously GJ and it wasn't until the second half of the season that he saw any kind of positive results and look how that went on, he became loved for so long.

I enjoy a bit of debate on these forums and love to see what others think but it really does kill some of my passion for this club when I see how knee jerk some of our fans really can be.

Good stuff spike, but for me and i am with you on most of this trust me... this is the challenge

" When did I say we had no goals, aims or markers? SOD has said already his aim is to change the philosophy of the club and that's what he is working on. Just because he hasn't laid out his entire plans for all to see it doesn't mean he doesn't have any, do you really think the board haven't got a clue what his plans are?! SOD and the board obviously know what they are aiming for and what their goals are and as much as you think as a fan we have some kind of right to know all of this we don't."

My god its a giant leap of faith to keep asking fans to turn up with the veiled promise that it will get better, if you don't adequately describe what it is you are trying to achieve.

No god given rights to demand that... yes i accept...but SODs life and that of the boards would be easier if they could spell out what exactly the philosophy is.

it was lost on me Saturday Spike.... defeat can be accepted as can disappointment..but hopelessness is more difficult to swallow at times.

SODs notes always finish with "keep supporting your team" and i will but... its only natural that some fans will eventually ask for something in return.

[Atticus]

Good post Ralph.

Im not saying we will be relegated, not at all, but im not going to so blindly say we wont be.

The "keepthefaith" muppets are just as bad as the doom merchants imo. Only difference being is that I dont see the doom merchants slating posts made by the blind lot.

We are poor. There is no getting away from the fact that at the moment SOD is performing badly.

Losing 3-0 at home to Peterborough is just unacceptable. Sorry, but losing by such a scoreline to anybody in this league is. And that's not sheer arrogance, and wild expectations. If we would of lost fine, but still shipping

in goals like no tomorrow shows ZERO improvement despite a brand new back line.

People are banging on about tuesday as a big game, and damn right it is. I want to see a marked improvement from our players.

[RedZoneJim]

We are poor. There is no getting away from the fact that at the moment SOD is performing badly.

Losing 3-0 at home to Peterborough is just unacceptable. Sorry, but losing by such a scoreline to anybody in this league is. And that's not sheer arrogance, and wild expectations. If we would of lost fine, but still shipping

in goals like no tomorrow shows ZERO improvement despite a brand new back line.

I'm far from happy about the result but that statement is just plain delusional about where they are compared to where we are right now. Their team is lights years ahead of ours . In case you missed it they put 6 past a very strong Reading side in the cup a couple of weeks ago, they've also got more than four goals away at Colchester, Tranmere and Notts County already this season. You say it's not sheer arrogance, it's complete bloody arrogance. Get your head out of the sand.

We are poor? Did you think we were poor against Bradford or Palace or Rovers or Gillingham in the cup or the 2nd half when we played well against Wolves or the character we showed to get 4 goals back against Coventry? Were we poor when we completely creamed Gillingham in the league in the second half but couldn't get the second goal. We haven't been poor this season. We've conceded too many goals again, and we haven't won a game in the league, but to say we've been poor is bollocks. We've been a work in progress, that's been the most obvious thing.

Saturday was disappointing but we weren't as shite as some on here are making out. What did people expect that Peterborough would just roll over and let us play? They are going to finish in the top two FFS. Just for a change we gifted them a dolly goal, they got a second from a worldy and the third was crap but the game was done by then. Talk about letting one result cloud your judgement on everything else.

We were never going to win the league this year, it is those wild expectations, people raving about some of the players we were bringing in without even seeing them play, that's creating the over-reactions now.