Sod's Shrewsbury Programme Notes.

[Steve Watts]

So there are actually fans who are quite willing to see us relegated possibly winning very few games, playing the likes of Morecambe, Accrington Stanley and Rochdale because apparently this is a 'long term project'. Just bizarre.

Not "willing" to see us relegated. Just not concerned about the long term future should it happen. Someone asked what happens if we go down. I was addressing that comment. Clearly I don't want to see us go down and don't believe for a second we will.

I, for one, am excited about where this club is trying to be in the next few years and what it is trying to do. I feel sorry for those who aren't excited about being a party of what COULD be a very important part of this clubs history.

Ask a Swansea fan if he is now disappointed that his club got relegated to the basement whilst they embarked on a similar project to ours.

[BRISTOL86]

So there are actually fans who are quite willing to see us relegated possibly winning very few games, playing the likes of Morecambe, Accrington Stanley and Rochdale because apparently this is a 'long term project'. Just bizarre.

We are very unlikely to get relegated, and I don't think you can tell me wholeheartedly that you think we will, based on the football we've played. We don't look like a relegation team.

Unlucky not to get a point from Wolves and three from Bradford and Gillingham. If we had, we'd be talking about having 8 points and not 3 and no one would be entertaining this nonsense about relegation. It's been SIX GAMES.

Long term doesn't mean "it'll take a decade and we'll have multiple relegations" - no fans could be expected to buy in to to a vision like that. But it does mean a lot longer than 6 games.

I - like most other people - would have hoped for 8-10 points from the opening 6 games given the tough start we had. But we are only six games into a 46 game season. There is much football to be played. We will win games, draw games and lose games. We will score goals and concede goals.

I'm not a "happy clapper" - but this is probably the only time I've ever still been optimistic following such a spell without a win. Why? Because I believe in the "long term" project that the club has embarked on and realise it was never going to be plain sailing. We need to stick together as a fan base and give the management and players time to bed in new philosophies and new ideas.

The win will come. Hopefully tonight, but if not, we have another game around the corner.

Didn't Man Utd have one of the worst spells of their history after SAF's appointment? Even the messiah has an off day.

[CotswoldRed]

I'm with SOD.

Given our transition I'd rather be winning games later in the season that the other way around.

Progress is often slow.

[AshtonGreat]

It's not just a case of coaching the players to individually do the right thing when they have the ball. It's getting them so that they know to do the right thing when they don't have it as well and to trust that the person on the ball will do the right thing. It's about getting them all on the same wavelength.

And quite frankly if this young team takes us down then the long term project continues. The clue about a long term project is in the name - it doesn't succeed overnight. It will take a lot of patience and a change of mind set that some fans won't feel comfortable with whilst we wait for it to bear fruit. I just hope SoD remains here to see it through. Because his theory and philosophy really strikes a chord with me.

In the meantime lets get behind our young guns tonight, eh?

Make no mistake, going down again would be an absolute disaster. SOD would be sacked and then the "long-term project" goes out of the window because a new manager would come in with an entirely new way of doing things.

Not that I think we will get relegated.

[Steve Watts]

double post

[Steve Watts]

Make no mistake, going down again would be an absolute disaster. SOD would be sacked and then the "long-term project" goes out of the window because a new manager would come in with an entirely new way of doing things.

Not that I think we will get relegated.

I would like to think that he wouldn't be sacked. The board brought him in to implement their rebuilding plans. They knew the vision and they knew the risk. They cannot ask for patience from the fans and then show none themselves.

Relegation itself wouldn't be the biggest disaster (not that I want it)... I don't believe the financial reward gap is as great between leagues 1 and 2 that it is between the championship and league 1. Sacking SoD before the transition has been completed would be a greater disaster in my honest opinion. Of course, this board have got a lot wrong in the past and that level of hypocrisy wouldn't necessarily be beyond them. But until then I'm trying to keep the faith.

As I said, I don't believe we'll go down anyway. Just trying to put a different spin on things and i believe the Swansea analogy is the closest fit to where we are presently.

[Davros]

I think people are blowing out of proportion tbh....if 15 games we are still here then fair enough, but we have played 5 top teams in this division and sod knows that.

I think this is the problem 15 games is a number I have in my head but i wasnt figuring on this small a number of points after 6 games I think a win is in order to get that monkey off their back

[TinnionForEngland]

I dont think we will be relgated and I never said I thought we would, just find it strange people seriously think that wouldnt be damaging and instead can find positives out of it.

[downendcity]

Back in the early 80's Nick Faldo was a rising star. He had already won tournaments and had a golf swing to die for. His future looked bright and there was understandable talk of him being Britain's great hope as a major winner.

Then he went to coach David Leadbetter and asked him to completely remodel his swing. This was not because their was anything wrong with the old swing, but , because he had realised that his original swing, elegant and effective though it was, would not stand up under the pressure of major championships, and Faldo wanted to be a major winner. His results went backwards while he worked on his new swing and as a young, keen hacker at the time I thought he had thrown away a promising career by making what seemed to me an unnecessary change.

It would have been easy for Faldo to ditch his remodelled swing and go back to the old one that had served him well, and seen him a winner in the past. However, had he done that is unlikely that he would have gone on to win 6 major championships. Faldo persevered and his conviction was proved correct and he became Britain's most successful modern day golfer. He had a goal and a plan, and the first part of that was putting the right fundamentals in place, which he knew would give him the ability to go on to greater success, even though it meant results went backwards in the short term.

When we last got out of this division we did so under a results orientated manager. He put together a team of triers and battlers, who he could motivate to achieve beyond their individual abilities, as we saw the first season a back in the championship. During that time I remember the criticism from many fans that wanted to be entertained and to see our team playing decent football instead of scrambling boring 1-0 wins ( oh, for such boredom over the last 2/3 seasons!)

The problem was that their capacity to achieve was limited by GJ's ability to keep them motivated as they had been on the way up. Once he started to try and "improve" the team by bringing in new players, our problems started as there was no real foundation to build on and we had players playing out of position, formations and tactics chopped and changed until GJ ran out of ideas. We kept on trying and failing to defend 1-0 leads and we lost the ability to get those boring 1-0 wins, . Once GJ "lost the dressing room" the writing was on the wall, and since his departure successive managers have tried to reinvent the wheel , and while we had little bursts of success, all the while we were on a downward spiral as different managers brought in different players to try and bail out a sinking ship.

Throughout my time supporting the club, we have been a second/third tier club. There has been very little continuity and periods of success have usually been followed by longer periods in the doldrums while we chopped and changed managers in the search for success. Having seen what Swansea has achieved and how they did it, I endorse the old maxim " if you keep on doing what you've always done, you will keep on getting what you've always got", so let's try a different way. I accept that the way we've chosen doesn't come with guarantees of success or that success will be evident in the very short term. However, it seems to me to be the way to build the right foundations that will enable the club to flourish in the long term, and give the best chance of sustaining our position in the championship when we secure our next promotion, and to build further from there.

Do I understand that this journey will mean that I have to invest faith and trust in the club and manager and that the road to success might be rocky on occasions, especially early on in the process and that I might be concerned that after 6 league games we have yet to get a win? Yes.

Do I understand that other fans might not share my faith and trust? Yes

Do I understand that other fans will always look at results and league tables before considering the long term picture? Yes

Do I understand that other fans are very critical of and sceptical about most things the club is doing at the moment? Yes

Are those fans entitled to their opinion? yes

Does that make them any less a City supporter than me? No

Who looks back at their career with greater satisfaction, Colin Montgomerie or Nick Faldo?

[phantom]

We are very unlikely to get relegated, and I don't think you can tell me wholeheartedly that you think we will, based on the football we've played. We don't look like a relegation team.

Unlucky not to get a point from Wolves and three from Bradford and Gillingham. If we had, we'd be talking about having 8 points and not 3 and no one would be entertaining this nonsense about relegation. It's been SIX GAMES.

Long term doesn't mean "it'll take a decade and we'll have multiple relegations" - no fans could be expected to buy in to to a vision like that. But it does mean a lot longer than 6 games.

I dont think we will be relgated and I never said I thought we would, just find it strange people seriously think that wouldnt be damaging and instead can find positives out of it.

Thought it strange to see the article printed BEFORE the game, but like others have said, it was clearly released to get a message across to us all.

Don't get me wrong, relegation last season was bad enough, so the thoughts of another season of relegation battle is unthinkable, but not sure anyone has a divine right to stay in this league.

Not too long ago Sunthorpe and Pompy were just getting relegated from the Championship!

What DOES worry me is our results since DMc left:

P26 W5 D7 L14 F31 A45 PTS 22 GD -14

WON 19%

POINTS 28%

PPG 0.84ppg..........That would give you 39 points over a season

I am convinced we have to stick with S'OD as another change is just going to balls things up even more, it's just how much further will we sink before turning the corner again?

[RedM]

I find the last bit of your comment quite a negative way of looking at thing but respect that its your opinion and your entitled to it, and I expect that you are more than likely to be older that me as I think I'm one of the younger ones that post on here, so I guess you will have formed your opinion based off experience (of city or other clubs) that I would have seen less of, but I agree in that I'm worried that we will lose players because they show they have the quality and potential to do in a higher division

I wasn't intending to be negative, but there has to be some light at the end of the tunnel for our young, hungry, ambitious players. On the whole it looks like we are done with expensive journeymen happy to have a limited role and here for the pay cheque rather than to progress their career or the clubs position. Our new band of players have to feel progress is being made and want that both for themselves and Bristol City, if not they will look elsewhere or other teams will look at them. Once the right balance is found the team has to develop together and stay together in my opinion.

In the past it seems we don't tend to start the season well, all the preparation and we don't hit the ground running. Maybe it's because we usually have quite a high turnover of players coming and going in the summer, it takes a few months to settle down. If we can keep the bulk of the team together, as I said above, with only a few changes this will surely help us to find our feet quicker?

Another point, when the fixtures came out nearly everyone said we had a very tough block of games together. Well that proved to be right, maybe we've now passed through the worst for a while and will be off the blocks tonight.

[RedZoneJim]

downendcity best post on here for MONTHS - bravo!!

[RedM]

downendcity best post on here for MONTHS - bravo!!

Yup, shame he's leaving isn't it! Ha ha!

[spudski]

Back in the early 80's Nick Faldo was a rising star. He had already won tournaments and had a golf swing to die for. His future looked bright and there was understandable talk of him being Britain's great hope as a major winner.

Then he went to coach David Leadbetter and asked him to completely remodel his swing. This was not because their was anything wrong with the old swing, but , because he had realised that his original swing, elegant and effective though it was, would not stand up under the pressure of major championships, and Faldo wanted to be a major winner. His results went backwards while he worked on his new swing and as a young, keen hacker at the time I thought he had thrown away a promising career by making what seemed to me an unnecessary change.

It would have been easy for Faldo to ditch his remodelled swing and go back to the old one that had served him well, and seen him a winner in the past. However, had he done that is unlikely that he would have gone on to win 6 major championships. Faldo persevered and his conviction was proved correct and he became Britain's most successful modern day golfer. He had a goal and a plan, and the first part of that was putting the right fundamentals in place, which he knew would give him the ability to go on to greater success, even though it meant results went backwards in the short term.

When we last got out of this division we did so under a results orientated manager. He put together a team of triers and battlers, who he could motivate to achieve beyond their individual abilities, as we saw the first season a back in the championship. During that time I remember the criticism from many fans that wanted to be entertained and to see our team playing decent football instead of scrambling boring 1-0 wins ( oh, for such boredom over the last 2/3 seasons!)

The problem was that their capacity to achieve was limited by GJ's ability to keep them motivated as they had been on the way up. Once he started to try and "improve" the team by bringing in new players, our problems started as there was no real foundation to build on and we had players playing out of position, formations and tactics chopped and changed until GJ ran out of ideas. We kept on trying and failing to defend 1-0 leads and we lost the ability to get those boring 1-0 wins, . Once GJ "lost the dressing room" the writing was on the wall, and since his departure successive managers have tried to reinvent the wheel , and while we had little bursts of success, all the while we were on a downward spiral as different managers brought in different players to try and bail out a sinking ship.

Throughout my time supporting the club, we have been a second/third tier club. There has been very little continuity and periods of success have usually been followed by longer periods in the doldrums while we chopped and changed managers in the search for success. Having seen what Swansea has achieved and how they did it, I endorse the old maxim " if you keep on doing what you've always done, you will keep on getting what you've always got", so let's try a different way. I accept that the way we've chosen doesn't come with guarantees of success or that success will be evident in the very short term. However, it seems to me to be the way to build the right foundations that will enable the club to flourish in the long term, and give the best chance of sustaining our position in the championship when we secure our next promotion, and to build further from there.

Do I understand that this journey will mean that I have to invest faith and trust in the club and manager and that the road to success might be rocky on occasions, especially early on in the process and that I might be concerned that after 6 league games we have yet to get a win? Yes.

Do I understand that other fans might not share my faith and trust? Yes

Do I understand that other fans will always look at results and league tables before considering the long term picture? Yes

Do I understand that other fans are very critical of and sceptical about most things the club is doing at the moment? Yes

Are those fans entitled to their opinion? yes

Does that make them any less a City supporter than me? No

Who looks back at their career with greater satisfaction, Colin Montgomerie or Nick Faldo?

Fantastic post mate and the Faldo analogy is spot on.

[sunningdalered]

My main concern is that S O'D gets fed up with trying to explain the same things, to the same sections of our supporters, week-in week-out, and decides enough is enough. He has tried to set out his intentions, and the parameters that he is working within, as clearly as he can, and still some people don't get it. What is the matter with you people?

[RedZoneJim]

My main concern is that S O'D gets fed up with trying to explain the same things, to the same sections of our supporters, week-in week-out, and decides enough is enough. He has tried to set out his intentions, and the parameters that he is working within, as clearly as he can, and still some people don't get it. What is the matter with you people?

Because some people seem to think, for a reason I can't get my head around, that if we don't get promoted this season the whole world will come crashing down and their lives will literally grind to a halt and they will wither and die. Legitimate I s'pose.

[spudski]

Because some people seem to think, for a reason I can't get my head around, that if we don't get promoted this season the whole world will come crashing down and their lives will literally grind to a halt and they will wither and die. Legitimate I s'pose.

What I can't understand is why football fans can't enjoy watching a plan take shape over time.

It seems their weekend is ruined if we don't win.

Ok we've not won a league game this season so far... but what great football we've been playing.

It's been a joy to watch possession passing football. From a young hungry team that are still raw... but trying.

It's actually entertaining for a change.

I can think of nothing worse than being in the bottom half of the Championship, like last season, with no plan, and just playing 'survival' football with overpaid journeymen 'pros' that no one else wants.

This season has been like a breath of fresh air.

I actually look forward to going to AG now... regardless of the result... if you can see glimmers of the 'philosophy' coming to fruition then it makes my day.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

My main concern is that S O'D gets fed up with trying to explain the same things, to the same sections of our supporters, week-in week-out, and decides enough is enough. He has tried to set out his intentions, and the parameters that he is working within, as clearly as he can, and still some people don't get it. What is the matter with you people?

What he would walk into a better job with his current BCFC record?.

Because some people seem to think, for a reason I can't get my head around, that if we don't get promoted this season the whole world will come crashing down and their lives will literally grind to a halt and they will wither and die. Legitimate I s'pose.

People like you are the drama queens, how many on here think we will be relegated? very few indeed, how many on here want SOD sacked? very few once more and most of those are just letting off steam, yet again another post to add to the many others of if you criticise SOD ergo you think we will be relegated and SOD should be sacked.

The point is 'again' some of us don't hang on to his every word as if he is some kind of prophet or even a god and why? because for all of the good things he has brought into this current team, he is still making some very similar mistakes to many of his predecessors and I happen to think it's exacerbating our position.

[glynriley]

Because some people seem to think, for a reason I can't get my head around, that if we don't get promoted this season the whole world will come crashing down and their lives will literally grind to a halt and they will wither and die. Legitimate I s'pose.

That's not what people think at all, and I suspect you know that.

[RedZoneJim]

I was being deliberately melodramatic yes.....

Although EBM this isn't a dig or anything at all, but am genuinely interested to know what very similar mistakes to many of his predecessors you think he's making?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I was being deliberately melodramatic yes....

Don't worry you are in good company.

[dezgimed]

, based on the football we've played. We don't look like a relegation team.

I'm sure Peterborough thought the same last season. Means nothing.

[Portland Bill]

That's not what people think at all, and I suspect you know that.

Not sure about that, I get the impression a few on here do!

[dezgimed]

My main concern is that S O'D gets fed up with trying to explain the same things, to the same sections of our supporters, week-in week-out, and decides enough is enough. He has tried to set out his intentions, and the parameters that he is working within, as clearly as he can, and still some people don't get it. What is the matter with you people?

Sorry but if he is in charge for months and months and months and he can't get his new squad to keep a clean sheet after 20 attempts, who is the stupid one?

[glynriley]

What I can't understand is why football fans can't enjoy watching a plan take shape over time.

It seems their weekend is ruined if we don't win.

Ok we've not won a league game this season so far... but what great football we've been playing.

It's been a joy to watch possession passing football. From a young hungry team that are still raw... but trying.

It's actually entertaining for a change.

I can think of nothing worse than being in the bottom half of the Championship, like last season, with no plan, and just playing 'survival' football with overpaid journeymen 'pros' that no one else wants.

This season has been like a breath of fresh air.

I actually look forward to going to AG now... regardless of the result... if you can see glimmers of the 'philosophy' coming to fruition then it makes my day.

Not Saturday for me. Go back to the opening game against Bradford, you could see the way we were trying to do things. Patience in keeping the ball, Wynter taking the ball off the defence and playing into midfield. fast forward to Saturday and it was keep posession at the back for a bit then launch it forward.

No doubt the green shoots are there, but Saturday we regressed, which will happen with youngsters no doubt, but I think a lot of the reactions on here since Saturday are because we appeared to take a step backwards.

[glynriley]

Not sure about that, I get the impression a few on here do!

A handful at the most. Most posts I read have us finishing mid table (even the optimists)!!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Not sure about that, I get the impression a few on here do!

and FEW being the operative word here, in fact VERY FEW, the drama is coming from the MANY who believe to criticise SOD is to want him sacked or believe we will be relegated.

[RedZoneJim]

Sorry but if he is in charge for months and months and months and he can't get his new squad to keep a clean sheet after 20 attempts, who is the stupid one?

You mean asides from the clean sheet at Gillingham and I think you'll find 'his new squad' have played just the nine games together. Still not ideal I grant you but what you've written's just not fact!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

You mean asides from the clean sheet at Gillingham and I think you'll find 'his new squad' have played just the nine games together. Still not ideal I grant you but what you've written's just not fact!

Yet again a drama queen being deliberately oblique, I think you understand fully what he meant.

[RedZoneJim]

Yet again a drama queen being deliberately oblique, I think you understand fully what he meant.

No read some of his earlier posts, he meant what he wrote.