Botswana

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

Bristol City Football Club cannot assist with the development of Botswana via a week long tour.

That is my opinion only.

I am genuinely interested in any opposition opinions.

Bristol City Football club can help the community of Botswana have local football training, Give the kids footballs, Teach school teachers the very basic football coaching and hey presto you have a long lasting community project that you can come back to and improve year after year

In a week the community trust could do a lot, As they say football speaks all languages which makes it a hell of a lot easier

[dezgimed]

Bristol City Football club can help the community of Botswana have local football training, Give the kids footballs, Teach school teachers the very basic football coaching and hey presto you have a long lasting community project that you can come back to and improve year after year

In a week the community trust could do a lot, As they say football speaks all languages which makes it a hell of a lot easier

 

Whilst that is all good and well, for a 'company' that cannot afford to buy the players lunch and dinner on away trips, this isn't the most cost effective way to deliver a few footballs and provide some coaching.

 

It also doesn't address the development of a third world. Football coaching isn't exactly infrastructure.

[samo II]

Bristol City Football Club cannot assist with the development of Botswana via a week long tour.

 

That is my opinion only.

 

I am genuinely interested in any opposition opinions.

You're not; your subsequent response reveals that.

 

It seems you hold the opinion that if an action doesn't immediately and completely solve a much larger and tangentially connected problem (in this case a football development project not turning a developing country into an economic powerhouse) then it isn't worth doing.

 

That isn't something I agree with, due to personal experience, but I respect your opinion.

 

Personally, I think this isn't the absolute horrorshow people seem to think, and could have benefits.

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

Whilst that is all good and well, for a 'company' that cannot afford to buy the players lunch and dinner on away trips, this isn't the most cost effective way to deliver a few footballs and provide some coaching.

It also doesn't address the development of a third world. Football coaching isn't exactly infrastructure.

SL will pay for it as it is his trip, Never heard the lunch or dinner story before though?

I don't think this trip is aimed to make a difference to develop a third world country by building water pipes, As you don't see the trust here helping the less fortunate by giving them shelter or hot food

[Sixtyseconds]

Bristol City Football club can help the community of Botswana have local football training, Give the kids footballs, Teach school teachers the very basic football coaching and hey presto you have a long lasting community project that you can come back to and improve year after year

In a week the community trust could do a lot, As they say football speaks all languages which makes it a hell of a lot easier

You missed a question. What will BCFC be doing here that week? What will BCFC do to match that in Bristol?

Schools and kids HERE do not get the gig BCFC are sending out to another Country. Kids HERE at BCFC Community trust training will be lucky to see one of the first XI in a year.

Yes the community trust and Bristol City's team can do a lot in ten days. A lot they are not doing here.

[dezgimed]

You're not; your subsequent response reveals that.

 

It seems you hold the opinion that if an action doesn't immediately and completely solve a much larger and tangentially connected problem (in this case a football development project not turning a developing country into an economic powerhouse) then it isn't worth doing.

 

That isn't something I agree with, due to personal experience, but I respect your opinion.

 

Personally, I think this isn't the absolute horrorshow people seem to think, and could have benefits.

 

What is the counter argument?

 

You aren't presenting one so I can only assume you don't have one.

 

City coach kids

Kids become happier

Less crime

More study

'Development'

No longer 3rd world

 

Something like that?!

[TRL]

Not sure we have anything to offer other than helping setup some coaching academies. As far as I know Botswana is quite well off and has a relatively good standard of living, so not entirely sure what this "help drill wells" and other ideas of what poor African countries need has to do with this.

Clearly something here is more to do with Lansdown's investments over there. Maybe a sweetner in someway, but that is by the by. I would sincerely hope any efforts made over there would enable us first dibs on any talent coming out of the country.

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

You missed a question. What will BCFC be doing here that week? What will BCFC do to match that in Bristol?

Schools and kids HERE do not get the gig BCFC are sending out to another Country. Kids HERE at BCFC Community trust training will be lucky to see one of the first XI in a year.

Yes the community trust and Bristol City's team can do a lot in ten days. A lot they are not doing here.

Lucky to see them in a year? The first XI have been on school visits twice already, Last year they helped out coaching sessions

Not every member of the trust will be going over so the usual coaching sessions held across Bristol will still go ahead

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

Not sure we have anything to offer other than helping setup some coaching academies. As far as I know Botswana is quite well off and has a relatively good standard of living, so not entirely sure what this "help drill wells" and other ideas of what poor African countries need has to do with this.

Clearly something here is more to do with Lansdown's investments over there. Maybe a sweetner in someway, but that is by the by. I would sincerely hope any efforts made over there would enable us first dibs on any talent coming out of the country.

Correct it is well off for a typical African country but that doesn't mean there isnt Poverty in Botswana, If I managed the trust I would try and setup a coaching academy in these poverty struck areas

[TRL]

Correct it is well off for a typical African country but that doesn't mean there isnt Poverty in Botswana, If I managed the trust I would try and setup a coaching academy in these poverty struck areas

Indeed, these areas are where you generally get your hungry players, who work hatd to get out of poverty. Where as setting something up in the bigger cities generally leads to the more well of get the coaching, who maybe don't have the same drive.

Win win situation surely?

[samo II]

What is the counter argument?

 

You aren't presenting one so I can only assume you don't have one.

 

City coach kids

Kids become happier

Less crime

More study

'Development'

No longer 3rd world

 

Something like that?!

Wow; what on Earth has this to do with crime? That is some serious knights-move thinking.  I'm not sure City claimed to solve their crime problems..?  You prove my point that you're attempting to tar this by saying it won't help in areas it isn't actually intended to. 

 

My counter 'arguments' would be based on my own experiences, working admittedly in both the development of law enforcement and medical services, so that has a more direct impact on areas you seem to think City are claiming to help, which is frankly a fallacy that lies at the heart of your argument; that you seem to think this need to solve bigger, unconnected to developing community ties and footballing infrastructure.

 

So, you're asking me to 'argue' with you over an issue you've conjured up (i.e. that City's assistance and trip is to solve Botswana's development need), not the facts; why would I waste my time?

 

We may as well do nothing to support ANY community, even at home, by your standards.  I mean players attending the Children's Hospital isn't going to solve cancer, right?  So why waste time as a 'company' on those kids, eh?  

 

Let's agree to disagree; you clearly don't want City doing anything remotely helpful, even if just in potential, while I don't think it is a bad thing.  

[Sixtyseconds]

Lucky to see them in a year? The first XI have been on school visits twice already, Last year they helped out coaching sessions

Not every member of the trust will be going over so the usual coaching sessions held across Bristol will still go ahead

Asks the parents at Whitchurch, Filton, Keynsham .. Kids can never see a XI player and attend coaching year to year.

You have still not answered that specific question.

What big party BCFC be putting on to match this Botswann soiree for Bristol kids?

[dezgimed]

Wow; what on Earth has this to do with crime? That is some serious knights-move thinking.  I'm not sure City claimed to solve their crime problems..?  You prove my point that you're attempting to tar this by saying it won't help in areas it isn't actually intended to. 

 

My counter 'arguments' would be based on my own experiences, working admittedly in both the development of law enforcement and medical services, so that has a more direct impact on areas you seem to think City are claiming to help, which is frankly a fallacy that lies at the heart of your argument; that you seem to think this need to solve bigger, unconnected to developing community ties and footballing infrastructure.

 

So, you're asking me to 'argue' with you over an issue you've conjured up (i.e. that City's assistance and trip is to solve Botswana's development need), not the facts; why would I waste my time?

 

We may as well do nothing to support ANY community, even at home, by your standards.  I mean players attending the Children's Hospital isn't going to solve cancer, right?  So why waste time as a 'company' on those kids, eh?  

 

Let's agree to disagree; you clearly don't want City doing anything remotely helpful, even if just in potential, while I don't think it is a bad thing.  

 

What on Earth are you talking about?

 

Read the entire thread back. You claimed to have some personal experience that suggests that our involvement will assist in developing the 3rd world.

 

I can only guess how that works, until you enlighten us, but you still refuse to.

 

City players visiting kids hospitals and schools etc is fantastic, it has a purpose. This doesn't other than to serve one we aren't privy to.

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

Asks the parents at Whitchurch, Filton, Keynsham .. Kids can never see a XI player and attend coaching year to year.

You have still not answered that specific question.

What big party BCFC be putting on to match this Botswann soiree for Bristol kids?

Bristol City won't be doing anything as they aren't in the country, Same as Spain last year, Scotland Year before, Portugal and Latvia, But when they are in the country they send the first XI out to schools and coaching sessions

That answered it?

[samo II]

What on Earth are you talking about?

 

Read the entire thread back. You claimed to have some personal experience that suggests that our involvement will assist in developing the 3rd world.

 

I can only guess how that works, until you enlighten us, but you still refuse to.

 

City players visiting kids hospitals and schools etc is fantastic, it has a purpose. This doesn't other than to serve one we aren't privy to.

Who is "us"?  Do you speak for someone other than of yourself?  Or are you playing to a crowd?  I'll answer your question, but to you, not some imaginary audience you seem determined to play up to.

 

My personal experience is working on volunteer projects in orphanages in Malawi, teaching children about basic cleanliness, healthy eating habits and other health areas, as well as working with their carers to teach more detail and complex skills.  The outcomes of this might not 'solve' the big problems, such as high levels of AIDs, but they are the start of work towards those goals.

 

This work is aimed to help in they build soft skills in communities, assist in spreading that knowledge beyond the initial point of contact (the taught become the teachers) and that also build confidence in those tasked with doing this, which in turn often leads them becoming more active in larger scale change, be it at political or grass roots level, in a kind of 'ripple effect'.  Many of those who's lives are effected by this also seek to and maintain links with the counties/people/organisations who helped them, and these bonds often continue to provide myriad positive outcomes for both.

 

Now, if you apply this to football, you can extrapolate out the benefits in terms of training and links, both for Botswana and ourselves, and also that for our staff/players.  Believe me; when you've look genuine dollar-a-day poverty in the face and seen how thin the line is between life and death in those circumstances, it makes you think hard about you life back home.  I can only imagine the effect it could have on some of our players, many of whom have been involved in football since childhood, and likely not had the chance to experience circumstances such as they will see in sub-Saharan Africa.

 

Certainly for those with heritage in the region or similar regions, it can be profoundly moving on many levels; I have several close friends of distant African ancestry who realised how fortunate they were after spending time on these projects, and in one case it literally motivated him to turn his life around, from a hourly-wage worker to building up his own company, as he realised the opportunities he was wasting at home compared.  I was similar in my reaction to the experience, though in different ways, and have to say it was a pivotal moment in my life.

 

Clearly, I can't 'guarantee' positive impacts like the ones described about City's trip (extrapolated on to football, rather than healthcare) but you wanted my opinions and observations from the positive tangible impact of community engagement in sub-Saharan Africa, both on those receiving the help and helping, so you've got it.  And if you're so closed minded as to see this as being wholly negative for the 'company' that is BCFC, I think we're not just on different positions here, but likely in life.  I'd like my club to be positive, ambitious and non-cynical in it's off-field endeavours; this is a good example of this.

 

I'm not going to respond again; mainly because I've said my piece, but feel free to comment away.  Would be interested in hearing why you think it is a bad idea based on your own experiences of assisting in development in other countries.  I'm sure your audience would too.

[Sixtyseconds]

Bristol City won't be doing anything as they aren't in the country, Same as Spain last year, Scotland Year before, Portugal and Latvia, But when they are in the country they send the first XI out to schools and coaching sessions

That answered it?

Come on Chief.

What are these usual coaching sessions held across Bristol that will still go ahead that week? Specifics.

Did any of the first XI go to the coaching sessions in say Whitchurch in the school holidays last year? Often? Never? What?

Cos evidently they do loads

[dezgimed]

Who is "us"?  Do you speak for someone other than of yourself?  Or are you playing to a crowd?  I'll answer your question, but to you, not some imaginary audience you seem determined to play up to.

 

My personal experience is working on volunteer projects in orphanages in Malawi, teaching children about basic cleanliness, healthy eating habits and other health areas, as well as working with their carers to teach more detail and complex skills.  The outcomes of this might not 'solve' the big problems, such as high levels of AIDs, but they are the start of work towards those goals.

 

This work is aimed to help in they build soft skills in communities, assist in spreading that knowledge beyond the initial point of contact (the taught become the teachers) and that also build confidence in those tasked with doing this, which in turn often leads them becoming more active in larger scale change, be it at political or grass roots level, in a kind of 'ripple effect'.  Many of those who's lives are effected by this also seek to and maintain links with the counties/people/organisations who helped them, and these bonds often continue to provide myriad positive outcomes for both.

 

Now, if you apply this to football, you can extrapolate out the benefits in terms of training and links, both for Botswana and ourselves, and also that for our staff/players.  Believe me; when you've look genuine dollar-a-day poverty in the face and seen how thin the line is between life and death in those circumstances, it makes you think hard about you life back home.  I can only imagine the effect it could have on some of our players, many of whom have been involved in football since childhood, and likely not had the chance to experience circumstances such as they will see in sub-Saharan Africa.

 

Certainly for those with heritage in the region or similar regions, it can be profoundly moving on many levels; I have several close friends of distant African ancestry who realised how fortunate they were after spending time on these projects, and in one case it literally motivated him to turn his life around, from a hourly-wage worker to building up his own company, as he realised the opportunities he was wasting at home compared.  I was similar in my reaction to the experience, though in different ways, and have to say it was a pivotal moment in my life.

 

Clearly, I can't 'guarantee' positive impacts like the ones described about City's trip (extrapolated on to football, rather than healthcare) but you wanted my opinions and observations from the positive tangible impact of community engagement in sub-Saharan Africa, both on those receiving the help and helping, so you've got it.  And if you're so closed minded as to see this as being wholly negative for the 'company' that is BCFC, I think we're not just on different positions here, but likely in life.  I'd like my club to be positive, ambitious and non-cynical in it's off-field endeavours; this is a good example of this.

 

I'm not going to respond again; mainly because I've said my piece, but feel free to comment away.  Would be interested in hearing why you think it is a bad idea based on your own experiences of assisting in development in other countries.  I'm sure your audience would too.

 

Thank you for answering my original question.

 

My reference to City as a company was sarcastic FYI. I think your own experiences have little relevance here to be honest, just my view.

[samo II]

[dezgimed]

[samo II]

It would be an eye opening experience for anyone sure, and worthwhile, I am just skeptical from the perspective that we're a loss making shit football team (or were shit, maybe we're decent now!!).

I'd hope SL (because this does very much seem like his suggestion/idea) would see this as something perhaps 'outwith' budget, and though I'm loath to see the club follow this route regularly (we do need to stand on our own feet... eventually), if he's underwriting it then I cannot see the harm in trying it.

 

Granted, if we do not escape the drop it cold be seen as tremendously inappropriate but, hey, if this conversation has revealed anything it is that I'm an optimist, so I'm hoping it will give the players a boost in our prep for a promotion season from league one.  

[Robin1988]

my issue is its the donations by you or me who pay for them to go out there to make a difference.if the money came out of their own pockets then fair enough but when it doesnt it just makes it an excuse for a holiday of a lifetime.

No, it isn't. I looked at volunteering in Kenya and various other parts of the world last year but couldn't afford it because it was several thousand pounds minimum for each trip, which I just don't have right now. Maybe it would be cheaper if this fantasy subsidy existed.

[samo II]

No, it isn't. I looked at volunteering in Kenya and various other parts of the world last year but couldn't afford it because it was several thousand pounds minimum for each trip, which I just don't have right now. Maybe it would be cheaper if this fantasy subsidy existed.

Here here.  The initial response is a classic piece of self-perpetuating ignorance.

[BS34Red]

No, it isn't. I looked at volunteering in Kenya and various other parts of the world last year but couldn't afford it because it was several thousand pounds minimum for each trip, which I just don't have right now. Maybe it would be cheaper if this fantasy subsidy existed.

I admit I dont know an awlful lot on this subject as my opinions are the africans should help themselves before we help them out but based on some research I did last year it seemed within charities administration costs covered things like flights etc which I feel isnt right. I have no idea how much 2.5k would be worth over there in our money but surely donating 2.5k would be more valuable than heading over there to vollenter? It just seems people go over there to help out for themselves ane their own ego and for the experiences rather than for the good of the africans.

[Robin1988]

I admit I dont know an awlful lot on this subject as my opinions are the africans should help themselves before we help them out

Stopped reading here, not sure how you propose they help themselves, the people who need help are the people who can't help themselves. This thread is in danger of going off topic terminally though, maybe best to leave it here.

[samo II]

I admit I dont know an awlful lot on this subject...

So, what you're saying is you admit you don't know what you're talking about, but want to make some ignorantass comments anyway?

 

GREAT POST BRO.  

 

Stopped reading here, not sure how you propose they help themselves, the people who need help are the people who can't help themselves. This thread is in danger of going off topic terminally though, maybe best to leave it here.

Yup.

[BS34Red]

Stopped reading here, not sure how you propose they help themselves, the people who need help are the people who can't help themselves. This thread is in danger of going off topic terminally though, maybe best to leave it here.

But do you not think that many hundreds of years ago our country would have been in simular situations, yet we built this country into what it is now. And my point is maybe the well off africans should do more to help their fellow countrymen before we go off helping them. There is many children, families and elderly in povety in this country, the nhs is in debt, the whole country is in debt yet here we are giving money away to others. We should do more to get our house in order before starying on someone elses house in another country. Is their problems really our problem when we have our own problems? Would this people who go to help over in africa be so kean about going to help out on a council estate in say Stoke where the only wildlife they will see is foxes.

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

[samo II]

But do you not think that many hundreds of years ago our country would have been in simular situations, yet we built this country into what it is now. And my point is maybe the well off africans should do more to help their fellow countrymen before we go off helping them. There is many children, families and elderly in povety in this country, the nhs is in debt, the whole country is in debt yet here we are giving money away to others. We should do more to get our house in order before starying on someone elses house in another country. Is their problems really our problem when we have our own problems? Would this people who go to help over in africa be so kean about going to help out on a council estate in say Stoke where the only wildlife they will see is foxes.

Wow.

 

And FYI; as someone who has been on one of these supposed 'safaris' you've creating off the top of your clueless head, I've also spent six months volunteering as part of Oxfam UK's Poverty Projects, helping establish community radio projects in some of the poorest communities there (Govan, if you're interested) and providing assistance to access for young people with no educational qualifications.

 

So... what have you done lately?  Anything?  

 

Doubt it.  Know your type. 

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

But do you not think that many hundreds of years ago our country would have been in simular situations, yet we built this country into what it is now. And my point is maybe the well off africans should do more to help their fellow countrymen before we go off helping them. There is many children, families and elderly in povety in this country, the nhs is in debt, the whole country is in debt yet here we are giving money away to others. We should do more to get our house in order before starying on someone elses house in another country. Is their problems really our problem when we have our own problems? Would this people who go to help over in africa be so kean about going to help out on a council estate in say Stoke where the only wildlife they will see is foxes.

 

I hope you realise what a fool you have made yourself look in that opening sentence

 

1. Britain has always ahd financial links, So easy to sell on goods we have produced to other countries

2. Botswana and most of Africa were there is poverty, Is because they don't have the materials or conditions to make or grow anything so not being able to sell anything makes it really hard to make any sort of money

 

What this has to do with the actual thread I don't know. Bring it back on track please

[Rich_s]

The level of bitterness on this thread is actually quite sad.