Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Don't agree with his views, but I find the level of resulting personal abuse very distasteful. You may not respect his opinion but you're not inviting respect for yourselves either. OK, exactly what personal experience of this type of safe standing is he basing his opinion on?, if he needs a soap box why not direct it at the pampered pussies in the prem, who at most grounds the majority of fans stand throughout the game, exactly how safe is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Rizzle Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Don't agree with his views, but I find the level of resulting personal abuse very distasteful. You may not respect his opinion but you're not inviting respect for yourselves either. Think the frustration with Leroy Rosenior and Dion Dublin is not that they disagree with safe standing but that they clearly have NOT done their research and have jumped to conclusions. These are high profile (kind of) pundits whose opinions get publicised, circulated and printed. They have a responsibility to know what they are talking about when they express an opinion. Both LR and DD have demonstrated complete ignorance. Their arguments are utterly flawed. There is no risk of surges. There is no risk of trying to squeeze more fans into a stadium. Safe standing simply allows fans to stand in safety. It is a SAFETY IMPROVEMENT for football stadiums, not a return to the 'dark ages'. I completely understand that Hillsborough families and campaigners will never support a return to standing because of the emotional connection it has with them. I completely respect this and the views of anyone who knows the facts and understands what safe standing is all about. But in LR and DD's case their comments just reflect badly on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manon Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 But, it might not work...how can they test it? There could be a fault they haven't seen, and we could have another hillsborough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 But, it might not work...how can they test it? There could be a fault they haven't seen, and we could have another hillsborough. Unless they erect fences we won't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 But, it might not work...how can they test it? There could be a fault they haven't seen, and we could have another hillsborough. The Hillsborough disaster was a combination of over-crowding, fencing and bad policing. It didn't have anything to do with standing as far as I'm aware... I don't see the difference in 1 ticket per seat vs 1 ticket per standing (seat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manon Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Sorry guys it was just me doing a poor dion dublin impression... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Sorry guys it was just me doing a poor dion dublin impression... I wasn't sure you were being serious ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS34Red Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I'm all for safe standing and if it's available where I want to be in the ground I will use it. However I would like to throw a word of caution in. The one's installed in Block A are just individual structures, there doesn't appear to be the strength you would get if a continuous rail was installed? They look a bit lightweight. We argue that this is safer than the current situation where people stand anyway and all they have in front of them is the back of a plastic seat (or in the EE nothing at all because the seats have no backs). There is rarely any surging in the current arrangement because people are aware of the danger. Do you think the rail seats, if they are not substantial enough, could give people a false sense of security that they can take the pressure of a 16 stone bloke leaning forward on it, the one I saw in Block A didn't look like it would hold up. As I said I am all for it, but I think we need to ensure the rail seat structure itself is strong enough to offer the level of support that it may need in the event of over enthusiastic fans. Not something we have seen at the Gate for a few seasons but hopefully we will see soon.I did consider the same as you but then thought it was a better idea to have them induvidual. If it was a continous rail then the risk of it failing would be higher as the load that wouod be able to press against it would be higher, however with it being induvidual the load that could be applied to it be smaller, not really explaining myself to well but only a couple of people could push against a single rail and it wouldnt fail, if it was a bigger longer rail more people could push against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippenhamRed Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Astonishing how poorly informed he is. Complete garbage. Do your research Leroy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfred Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Don't agree with his views, but I find the level of resulting personal abuse very distasteful. You may not respect his opinion but you're not inviting respect for yourselves either. He has chosen to express poorly researched views in the media and is now deservedly being taken to task over those views. Had his views contained any level of reasonable argument against safe (the clue is in the name, Leroy) standing then you may have had a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Have you ever heard such ill-informed rubbish as that which is spouted by this Sorrier looney... ? asked Miss Ana Gram, ..well yes actually Dion Dublin speaks shite too, came the reply from Budd Nilion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Just watched a bit of the Manc v Chelski game and 6,000 Chelski fans standing to a man, so Leroy would you call that safe standing?, I know why don't we do what we always do with the big clubs, turn a blind eye. The point actually is Leroy most fans in the prem and many in the championship stand anyway and it's unsafe, so why not find a safe way to accommodate the mass and unsafe breaking of ground regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave L Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 We have invited Leroy down next week to have a look for himself and he has accepted. I'm looking forward to meeting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 We have invited Leroy down next week to have a look for himself and he has accepted. I'm looking forward to meeting him. Nice one Dave. Can you answer a question for us? Do the club need a change in legislation to install the rail seating as seats or a change to use them as safe standing? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 I see Trevor Hicks was in Bristol sticking his oar in, firmly against the idea. Don't see why he should be involved at all and as another Hillsborough group have stated, 'they do not have the right to dictate how fans should enjoy the game'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Trevor who? Exactly. As with anything, you will always get a vocal minority against Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Trevor who? Exactly. As with anything, you will always get a vocal minority against It's safer as seats as the current model used in stadia all over the country Why the important people chose to ignore that I don't know. You just have to look at the pictures from Wednesday to see it doesn't obstruct view and is perfectly safe. The only reason it can't be used because it says safe STANDING. If it was Safe Seating I'm sure every stadium would of had it as soon as it came out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 I could accept criticism from Liverpool representatives if their support actually sat down in all seater stadia. I've just turned the tele on to watch Arsenal v Liverpool and there are thousands of Liverpool supporters stood in seated areas which is alot more dangerous than standing in a rail seated area / safe standing area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 We have invited Leroy down next week to have a look for himself and he has accepted. I'm looking forward to meeting him. A photo would suffice or does he find the whole idea a bit too difficult to to grasp? Still, a free feed and expenses I should think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 I could accept criticism from Liverpool representatives if their support actually sat down in all seater stadia. I've just turned the tele on to watch Arsenal v Liverpool and there are thousands of Liverpool supporters stood in seated areas which is alot more dangerous than standing in a rail seated area / safe standing area. They turn a blind eye which really annoys me! I see why they are against it, but they have nothing to say why it isn't safe. They can say it makes standing safer but we still stand against the use of it in stadiums then they will get more respect instead of hiding the fact that Liverpool/Chelsea/Man City/Man Utd fans stand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 The question I would ask (like you, I do understand their reticence) is what is the SAFER option? The status quo where thousands stand in seated areas with no protection should someone fall or the proposed rail system? I don't think they could justify their opinion in all honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 There is a very supportive article in the MOS about this saying that it's safer to stand in SS than as present in seating areas. Needless to say they don't mention City's involvement, just Villa and other Prem clubs interested ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 They turn a blind eye which really annoys me! I see why they are against it, but they have nothing to say why it isn't safe. They can say it makes standing safer but we still stand against the use of it in stadiums then they will get more respect instead of hiding the fact that Liverpool/Chelsea/Man City/Man Utd fans stand Exactly as with Leroy, perhaps the Hillsborough lobby, should actually be turning their attention towards the unsafe standing by thousands week in week out and especially at Liverpool fc in seated areas, a ground where the lobby actually holds some sway, surely there must be more than a hint of disrespect involved by the standing fans?, so if all seater stadiums don't work (because fans don't/won't sit) find a safe alternative that will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manon Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 The question I would ask (like you, I do understand their reticence) is what is the SAFER option? The status quo where thousands stand in seated areas with no protection should someone fall or the proposed rail system? I don't think they could justify their opinion in all honesty. They can't justify it. But they never seem to get pushed on the subject - they are just allowed to get their anti-view across, and the 'sensitivity' factor plays massively into their hands. They are treated as victims, whereas in all honesty - and with the greatest respect - they are victims of hillsbirough, not safe standing. It should be viewed as a completely separate thing. Would love to see a proper tv debate on the matter with both side's arguments dissected. The anti brigade would be taken to pieces and crushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 We have invited Leroy down next week to have a look for himself and he has accepted. I'm looking forward to meeting him. psst, ...best fit seatbelts & an airbag then, just to be on the safe-side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave L Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Would love to see a proper tv debate on the matter with both side's arguments dissected. The anti brigade would be taken to pieces and crushed. An unfortunate analogy given the events at Hillsborough, which I am sure you will be happy to retract. Having met with Margaret Aspinall and Trevor Hicks earlier in the week, I have to say that I found them to be decent, honest and principled people who have endured a lot of heartache and pain with great dignity over the last 25 years. It was a privilege to meet with them and discuss the issue like adults. Let's never forget that their children died in the most horrible circumstances, and that is bound to affect their outlook on matters relating to standing in football grounds. That's not to say I agree with their view that standing is inherently unsafe. I think that rail seating is infinitely safer than any alternative currently practiced in football stadia in this country. I very much hope that one day they and the other Hillsborough families will change their view when they see that rail seats can and will work in total safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manon Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Jesus, that's terrible. Apologies, didn't mean it at all. Can't seem to be able to edit it. Of course I retract it, and trust people understand it was indeed unfortunate/lazy wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Jesus, that's terrible. Apologies, didn't mean it at all. Can't seem to be able to edit it. Of course I retract it, and trust people understand it was indeed unfortunate/lazy wording. I understood what you meant. Not sure others on here who are as wise as me would though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Jesus, that's terrible. Apologies, didn't mean it at all. Can't seem to be able to edit it. Of course I retract it, and trust people understand it was indeed unfortunate/lazy wording. TBH, I didn't read it that way until DaveL mentioned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Jesus, that's terrible. Apologies, didn't mean it at all. Can't seem to be able to edit it. Of course I retract it, and trust people understand it was indeed unfortunate/lazy wording. I shouldn't worry. I didn't notice it either and it seemed obvious that it was unintended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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