"i'm A Winner."

[Aizoon]

Slightly to add to that, I thought Cotterill would be great for motivation and PR. I have to confess that I think I underestimated him. He's done a good job with the squad SOD left him. The only question now is whether he can do a long term job. Only time will tell.

Having ignored NickJ, it may seem ironic that I praise SC so lavishly, but then I care about BCFC, not about scoring points on OTIB.

[Nibor]

Sometimes things come back to bite you in the ass.

As I've said several times I'll be delighted to be proved wrong. I suspect this will still be a bad appointment in the long term and don't like the bloke.

Anyway I'm glad the opportunity to be a troll on the Internet brought some sunshine to your life, Making premature "I told you so" posts is a really ace hobby.

[GrahamC]

As I've said several times I'll be delighted to be proved wrong. I suspect this will still be a bad appointment in the long term and don't like the bloke.

Anyway I'm glad the opportunity to be a troll on the Internet brought some sunshine to your life, Making premature "I told you so" posts is a really ace hobby.

Really sticks in the throat he's doing so well, doesn't it?

[Monkeh]

Really sticks in the throat he's doing so well, doesn't it?

yes it must do, I couldn't give a **** about long term its all about staying up and thats why SoD was sacked because we were going down faster the a whore in amsterdam,

Everyone's misconseptions about SC have been proven wrong,

[Nibor]

Really sticks in the throat he's doing so well, doesn't it?

Not in the least. Why on earth would it?

[Barrs Court Red]

Not in the least. Why on earth would it?

Because clearly if you aren't that enthusiastic by Cotterill you MUST be a City hating doom merchant that is only content with them losing every week to prove a point you made on an inconsequential internet forum.

He'on OUR side you winner hater.

Or something like that.

[Coombsy]

Bring on Swindon

[NickJ]

Anyway I'm glad the opportunity to be a troll on the Internet brought some sunshine to your life,

 

Yes, and thanks for the opportunity.

 

I saw the comment "I'm a Winner" a positive statement of defiance and determination, you saw it as a negative that SC is "really not very bright at all".

 

Its all about perceptions isn't it.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

As I've said several times I'll be delighted to be proved wrong. I suspect this will still be a bad appointment in the long term and don't like the bloke.

Anyway I'm glad the opportunity to be a troll on the Internet brought some sunshine to your life, Making premature "I told you so" posts is a really ace hobby.

 

The only thing that should put sunshine in anybody's life last night is the result on top of the 2 previous results, I would be interested to know what you base your bad appointment quote on, if it's previous records then I can only assume you must have held a similar view with SOD.

 

 

[Port Said Red]

TBH I'd settle for poor but gets the job done. Anything to stop our plummet towards the bottom like a stone.

 

We can assess the long-term next season.

 

I can agree on the first part of that statement Robbo, I hope this team continues to get us away from trouble, no fan wants to see us relegated again and having lived through back to back (to back) relegations before, I can tell you it's incredibly demoralising.

 

As for the second part, If anyone reads my posts they probably think I am a stuck record, but I have to question how much longer we can keep putting off the long term plan (LTP). It seems like the worst kind of procrastination, the LTP always seems to be starting tomorrow until we seem to start fire-fighting again.

I can see from the replies to my comments in other threads that people think I am "an apologist for SOD" that's not true really (probably more of an apologist for DMC but that's another story), the point that I am trying to get over (very badly it seems) is that we do need a LTP and we need to commit to it sooner rather than later. my main issues are with the board who apparently laid out the LTP twice, they talked about investing in youth with the current Manager the week before they sacked DMC. and introduced the "5 pillars" in the month before they sacked SOD. They then completely backtracked on those 5 pillars, bringing in a Manager on a long term contract and signing players who will have little or no sell on value.

 

Despite what people might think I don't have an issue with Cotterill as such, but right at this moment he hasn't done anything to suggest he is the man who will help build a lasting legacy built around our own youth development, that will give us a firm footing for the future, quite the opposite in fact.

It might be that he signed the players he has because he felt that he needed old heads to get us out of the relegation zone, it might be that we will start next season with a fresh young looking side full of potential prospects, and that they will be given every chance to develop even when things go wrong, I hope that's the case, but I am doubtful that it will be. Please prove me wrong SC, I want to see something that gives me hope for a long term future not just something that gives me jam today.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I can agree on the first part of that statement Robbo, I hope this team continues to get us away from trouble, no fan wants to see us relegated again and having lived through back to back (to back) relegations before, I can tell you it's incredibly demoralising.

 

As for the second part, If anyone reads my posts they probably think I am a stuck record, but I have to question how much longer we can keep putting off the long term plan (LTP). It seems like the worst kind of procrastination, the LTP always seems to be starting tomorrow until we seem to start fire-fighting again.

I can see from the replies to my comments in other threads that people think I am "an apologist for SOD" that's not true really (probably more of an apologist for DMC but that's another story), the point that I am trying to get over (very badly it seems) is that we do need a LTP and we need to commit to it sooner rather than later. my main issues are with the board who apparently laid out the LTP twice, they talked about investing in youth with the current Manager the week before they sacked DMC. and introduced the "5 pillars" in the month before they sacked SOD. They then completely backtracked on those 5 pillars, bringing in a Manager on a long term contract and signing players who will have little or no sell on value.

 

Despite what people might think I don't have an issue with Cotterill as such, but right at this moment he hasn't done anything to suggest he is the man who will help build a lasting legacy built around our own youth development, that will give us a firm footing for the future, quite the opposite in fact.

It might be that he signed the players he has because he felt that he needed old heads to get us out of the relegation zone, it might be that we will start next season with a fresh young looking side full of potential prospects, and that they will be given every chance to develop even when things go wrong, I hope that's the case, but I am doubtful that it will be. Please prove me wrong SC, I want to see something that gives me hope for a long term future not just something that gives me jam today.

 

The problem with your assertions in your last paragraph are simple, the two things are totally separate issues until an academy player is nearing first team status and more importantly until the first team ship is steadied, having a great academy is not going to be the answer in the position we have found are selves in over the past 4 years.

 

The good news is it would appear that as the first team fortunes have floundered the hard work in the academy started by Millen and greatly improved by DMC and SOD are paying off and that is how it should be.

 

I think the question of the future is also a simple one and that is regardless of any minor success on the field next season and even the season after, the board must make sure that suitable academy players are given a fair chance and the process can then continue, it's up to the board to make sure the manager does as they require in that particular regard and to be fair his use of Burns, Bryan, Reid and Williams so far has been spot on and I notice that Wynter is beginning to get on the bench once more.

 

For me if we survive, which now for a change is actually in our own hands, then next season mid table safety, flirting with the play offs is progress.

 

 

[Robin1988]

Despite what people might think I don't have an issue with Cotterill as such, but right at this moment he hasn't done anything to suggest he is the man who will help build a lasting legacy built around our own youth development, that will give us a firm footing for the future, quite the opposite in fact.

It might be that he signed the players he has because he felt that he needed old heads to get us out of the relegation zone, it might be that we will start next season with a fresh young looking side full of potential prospects, and that they will be given every chance to develop even when things go wrong, I hope that's the case, but I am doubtful that it will be. Please prove me wrong SC, I want to see something that gives me hope for a long term future not just something that gives me jam today.

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. Bobby Reid and Joe Bryan have featured in almost all (if not every single) game under SC. Burns has also had more of a look in. He hasn't done a massive amount more than SO'D but his approach hasn't been "quite the opposite".

[Red-Robbo]

I can agree on the first part of that statement Robbo, I hope this team continues to get us away from trouble, no fan wants to see us relegated again and having lived through back to back (to back) relegations before, I can tell you it's incredibly demoralising.

As for the second part, If anyone reads my posts they probably think I am a stuck record, but I have to question how much longer we can keep putting off the long term plan (LTP). It seems like the worst kind of procrastination, the LTP always seems to be starting tomorrow until we seem to start fire-fighting again.

I can see from the replies to my comments in other threads that people think I am "an apologist for SOD" that's not true really (probably more of an apologist for DMC but that's another story), the point that I am trying to get over (very badly it seems) is that we do need a LTP and we need to commit to it sooner rather than later. my main issues are with the board who apparently laid out the LTP twice, they talked about investing in youth with the current Manager the week before they sacked DMC. and introduced the "5 pillars" in the month before they sacked SOD. They then completely backtracked on those 5 pillars, bringing in a Manager on a long term contract and signing players who will have little or no sell on value.

Despite what people might think I don't have an issue with Cotterill as such, but right at this moment he hasn't done anything to suggest he is the man who will help build a lasting legacy built around our own youth development, that will give us a firm footing for the future, quite the opposite in fact.

It might be that he signed the players he has because he felt that he needed old heads to get us out of the relegation zone, it might be that we will start next season with a fresh young looking side full of potential prospects, and that they will be given every chance to develop even when things go wrong, I hope that's the case, but I am doubtful that it will be. Please prove me wrong SC, I want to see something that gives me hope for a long term future not just something that gives me jam today.

I don't think we've abandoned investing in youth, PSR. Aren't our U21 team enjoying some very good results?

The thing that would really threaten any sort of long-term plan would be relegation to L2. The mass departure of anyone half decent would make a drastic impact on team cohesion. The reduced revenues could seriously threaten our youth set-up.

We're not out the woods yet, but I think we have put it in our hands to stay up, rather than depending on other's results.'

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Worst thread of the year

[Aizoon]

Worst thread of the year

 

Agreed. And on the best day of the year, too

 

Do I smell Gas?

[Port Said Red]

The problem with your assertions in your last paragraph are simple, the two things are totally separate issues until an academy player is nearing first team status and more importantly until the first team ship is steadied, having a great academy is not going to be the answer in the position we have found are selves in over the past 4 years.

 

The good news is it would appear that as the first team fortunes have floundered the hard work in the academy started by Millen and greatly improved by DMC and SOD are paying off and that is how it should be.

 

I think the question of the future is also a simple one and that is regardless of any minor success on the field next season and even the season after, the board must make sure that suitable academy players are given a fair chance and the process can then continue, it's up to the board to make sure the manager does as they require in that particular regard and to be fair his use of Burns, Bryan, Reid and Williams so far has been spot on and I notice that Wynter is beginning to get on the bench once more.

 

For me if we survive, which now for a change is actually in our own hands, then next season mid table safety, flirting with the play offs is progress.

 

 

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. Bobby Reid and Joe Bryan have featured in almost all (if not every single) game under SC. Burns has also had more of a look in. He hasn't done a massive amount more than SO'D but his approach hasn't been "quite the opposite".

 

 

I don't think we've abandoned investing in youth, PSR. Aren't our U21 team enjoying some very good results?

The thing that would really threaten any sort of long-term plan would be relegation to L2. The mass departure of anyone half decent would make a drastic impact on team cohesion. The reduced revenues could seriously threaten our youth set-up.

We're not out the woods yet, but I think we have put it in our hands to stay up, rather than depending on other's results.'

 

 

Thanks for your replies all. It's nice to see that there are others considering the next step too. I was looking more at the signings of Barnett  (almost universally derided 30) El Abd (seen as a liability by most 28/29) and Elliott (who seems to be garnering some praise, but is 35).

 

I appreciate he has been using the three breakthrough players and I am may be being unfair on him in that respect. Wouldn't be good to see us safe with a few games to go and for him to show his commitment to youth by giving a few more a run out in the remaining low pressure games? 

 

Esmond. I totally agree with your point about players being ready from the current set up, but I would also like to see next seasons squad contain signings that are pulled from young upcoming talent in the lower leagues or Prem academy cast offs with a point  to prove. We have spent too long and too much money on "journeymen", lets at least give a new approach a chance for a while.

 

Flirting with the play offs would be great, but even better if you could see that the potential go even further is within the squad for future seasons.

[Super]

I don't think we've abandoned investing in youth, PSR. Aren't our U21 team enjoying some very good results?

The thing that would really threaten any sort of long-term plan would be relegation to L2. The mass departure of anyone half decent would make a drastic impact on team cohesion. The reduced revenues could seriously threaten our youth set-up.

We're not out the woods yet, but I think we have put it in our hands to stay up, rather than depending on other's results.'

 

Agree. I could not care less about the long term plan at the moment, it is all about staying in this division this season which it's been all about since he took over from Mr "2 wins out of 18"

[samo II]

Agree. I could not care less about the long term plan at the moment, it is all about staying in this division this season which it's been all about since he took over from Mr "2 wins out of 18"

This, ultimately, is my stance also.

 

SOD's objective this season was not (in my eyes at least) to get us out of the division, but to stabilise us and build something that, going forward, could challenge to get us back to the Championship.  I personally hoped we'd perhaps finished round midtable, ideally without having to fight relegation again for another season.  

 

He deserves some credit for one aspect of this, via several of the signing he made and the attempts he made to encourage us to play good football, but he abjectly failed (however it happened) to stabilise us, and I think his departure was inevitable by the end.  

 

This was a great shame, as I personally felt he could have been a very decent manager for us, but no one can say the lack of wins/points under his stewardship didn't give everyone cause for concern, and I wasn't surprised when he was sacked.

 

SC came in with one goal, and one goal only; stave off relegation to the bottom tier.  

 

Right now, he's brought in players (some who look good, some who don't) and set the team up to do this.  It took a while, and I'm happy to admit I felt pretty negative prior to the Tranmere game that we'd hit the form needed.  But we have, and if we can maintain this improvement, SC will have a big 'tick' in the box titled 'Mission Accomplished'.  

 

After that he'll have another, different objective, and he should be judged on that when it arrives, not before.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Thanks for your replies all. It's nice to see that there are others considering the next step too. I was looking more at the signings of Barnett  (almost universally derided 30) El Abd (seen as a liability by most 28/29) and Elliott (who seems to be garnering some praise, but is 35).

 

I appreciate he has been using the three breakthrough players and I am may be being unfair on him in that respect. Wouldn't be good to see us safe with a few games to go and for him to show his commitment to youth by giving a few more a run out in the remaining low pressure games? 

 

Esmond. I totally agree with your point about players being ready from the current set up, but I would also like to see next seasons squad contain signings that are pulled from young upcoming talent in the lower leagues or Prem academy cast offs with a point  to prove. We have spent too long and too much money on "journeymen", lets at least give a new approach a chance for a while.

 

Flirting with the play offs would be great, but even better if you could see that the potential go even further is within the squad for future seasons.

 

As for your first sentence, I think you are clutching at straws, GJ did that in spades especially in the last 12 months, Millen did it from the moment it started going pear shaped as did DMC and SOD pretty much from the get go.

 

Barnett was obvious from the point of view that he didn't fancy Taylor and there was nobody on the books who fitted that particular bill, but unless there is an upturn in his form I suspect that signing won't be made permanent, El Abd was universally recognised by the xbox managers on here as being just what the doctor ordered sadly it hasn't worked out that way so far (shit happens) Elliott has turned out the complete opposite to El Abd and he was universally criticised by the xbox managers, so just goes to prove something I suppose (i'll leave that one to you).

 

and also for the record and in the way of balance of SC's transfer activity now and in the future, failed bids for Dicko and Freeman during the window also show his and the clubs ambitions admirably I believe, of course unless you feel that these 2 do not fall into your category of the type of players we should be trying to sign?.

 

 

[Port Said Red]

As for your first sentence, I think you are clutching at straws, GJ did that in spades especially in the last 12 months, Millen did it from the moment it started going pear shaped as did DMC and SOD pretty much from the get go.

 

Barnett was obvious from the point of view that he didn't fancy Taylor and there was nobody on the books who fitted that particular bill, but unless there is an upturn in his form I suspect that signing won't be made permanent, El Abd was universally recognised by the xbox managers on here as being just what the doctor ordered sadly it hasn't worked out that way so far (shit happens) Elliott has turned out the complete opposite to El Abd and he was universally criticised by the xbox managers, so just goes to prove something I suppose (i'll leave that one to you).

 

and also for the record and in the way of balance of SC's transfer activity now and in the future, failed bids for Dicko and Freeman during the window also show his and the clubs ambitions admirably I believe, of course unless you feel that these 2 do not fall into your category of the type of players we should be trying to sign?.

 

I am not clutching at straws because I am not trying to be critical or feel I am defending anything, just making the point around the signings he has made appearing not to be within the stated remit. I agree with your point about Milly and GJ because they were "pre 5 pillars" managers and I have always said that it was disappointing to see what GJ had left us with in the end.

Like you I dislike the "xbox Manager culture" and see it as partly responsible for the "sack him" kneejerk reactions that are prevalent theses days.

 

I completely accept your last point, I can't say that I know anything about either of those players, but if you say that they fitted the bill and we were trying to sign them, then that is indeed a good sign. Like I said wouldn't it be good to see those sort of signings in the summer rather than the El Abds of this world?

 

As I keep saying, I hope I am wrong and the 5 pillars are standing and SC is the man to reinforce them, (god knows we need the stability!) I am just waiting for the evidence.

[Robin1988]

Undeniably PSR you have a point; the proof will be in the pudding next season but I don't think there's too much to be worried about yet. When Cotterill made some early murmurings about young players having to prove they are good enough there was some apprehension on here, but Reid, Bryan, Pack, Williams, and even Parish (before his understandable removal) have been included regularly.

 

Whether they will be added to - or whether they even should - from players within the academy, will become clear in time. For my money, the 'mix' that SOD and JL talked about when the pillars were first introduced never really materialised at the start of this season, there were a lot of faces fairly new to this level, and no real sign of a backbone to the side. We now have more of a mix; albeit not the one we wanted from El-Abd, I think it's fair that SC should have expected far more from him. Buying in January is never easy, we will only get a full picture of SC's intentions in the Summer, when the pressure of staving relegation is (for now at least) over.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I am not clutching at straws because I am not trying to be critical or feel I am defending anything, just making the point around the signings he has made appearing not to be within the stated remit. I agree with your point about Milly and GJ because they were "pre 5 pillars" managers and I have always said that it was disappointing to see what GJ had left us with in the end.

Like you I dislike the "xbox Manager culture" and see it as partly responsible for the "sack him" kneejerk reactions that are prevalent theses days.

 

I completely accept your last point, I can't say that I know anything about either of those players, but if you say that they fitted the bill and we were trying to sign them, then that is indeed a good sign. Like I said wouldn't it be good to see those sort of signings in the summer rather than the El Abds of this world?

 

As I keep saying, I hope I am wrong and the 5 pillars are standing and SC is the man to reinforce them, (god knows we need the stability!) I am just waiting for the evidence.

 

Firstly the 5 pillars and the first team are at this moment in time separate issues and quite rightly so.

 

Your comment about El Abd is pretty silly to be honest, you don't become a bad player overnight and his signing was generally thought to be a good one at the time, ok so far it doesn't appear to have worked out for him, but hey with Fontaine out of the frame we need a whipping boy replacement, but I suspect El Abd is made of stronger stuff, wouldn't it be good if eventually he turned out to be our new Shaun Taylor?.

 

 

[Port Said Red]

Firstly the 5 pillars and the first team are at this moment in time separate issues and quite rightly so.

 

Your comment about El Abd is pretty silly to be honest, you don't become a bad player overnight and his signing was generally thought to be a good one at the time, ok so far it doesn't appear to have worked out for him, but hey with Fontaine out of the frame we need a whipping boy replacement, but I suspect El Abd is made of stronger stuff, wouldn't it be good if eventually he turned out to be our new Shaun Taylor?.

 

Yes it would, certainly better than being our new Sean Dyche!!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Yes it would, certainly better than being our new Sean Dyche!!

 

The El Abd hate thing is sort of becoming the last bastion of defence for the SC bashers.

[Oxford Red]

The El Abd hate thing is sort of becoming the last bastion of defence for the SC bashers.

 

I've been very impressed with Cotterill and at the same time completely unimpressed with the addition of El Abd.

[samo II]

I've been very impressed with Cotterill and at the same time completely unimpressed with the addition of El Abd.

This is the thing; neither needs to be mutually exclusive, yet those who are defending SC's record (they don't need to; it speaks for itself) seem to think EVERYTHING he does needs to pay off.  It doesn't; he just needs to get the job (avoiding relegation) done, which he is doing.

 

Neither El Abd nor Barnett have impressed me, but despite this SC is building us into a decent unit.

 

Doesn't mean his signings are above reproach however.