"i'm A Winner."

[NickJ]

I assume you went around the forum picking people up the O'Drosscoll name that is even more hilarious than my David Brent/Mike Bassett comment?

 

 

 

The significant difference between the criticism of SOD and now SC are:

 

1) Those of SC started from day one, whereas at least SOD was given the courtesy of an opportunity to prove he was a failure

2) Those at SC have been full of personal venom, vitriol and character assassination to a degree thankfully not directed at SOD.

 

That is my essential point.

[Fiale]

For me the worrying thing about his career are he went to Stoke but resigned after 13 games, he went to Sunderland as asst mngr but him and the manager were sacked after 27 games, he had no managerial position for 2.5 years, he went to Notts County leaving after 3 months, and lasted only 9 months at Nottingham forest (getting a nice club record along the way of 10.5 hours of play without scoring at home (7 games or 2.5 months with no goals).

 

 

Even in a job with such a short life span as football management that is a worrying CV. I would never hire someone with that resume.

[NickJ]

For me the worrying thing about his career are he went to Stoke but resigned after 13 games, he went to Sunderland as asst mngr but him and the manager were sacked after 27 games, he had no managerial position for 2.5 years, he went to Notts County leaving after 3 months, and lasted only 9 months at Nottingham forest (getting a nice club record along the way of 10.5 hours of play without scoring at home (7 games or 2.5 months with no goals).

 

 

Even in a job with such a short life span as football management that is a worrying CV. I would never hire someone with that resume.

 

Cant argue with that as fact (although if I were SC I'd point out the win record at Notts County was 78%) however if for example I had a vendetta against Brian Clough I'd consider omitting Hartlepool, Forest and Derby, highlighting his record at Brighton and Leeds, and in keeping with the fanatical OTIB support I would feel obliged to say he was an egotistical tosser, a clown, a penis and clueless.

[Nogbad the Bad]

For me the worrying thing about his career are he went to Stoke but resigned after 13 games, he went to Sunderland as asst mngr but him and the manager were sacked after 27 games, he had no managerial position for 2.5 years, he went to Notts County leaving after 3 months, and lasted only 9 months at Nottingham forest (getting a nice club record along the way of 10.5 hours of play without scoring at home (7 games or 2.5 months with no goals).

 

 

Even in a job with such a short life span as football management that is a worrying CV. I would never hire someone with that resume.

 

Or, looking at it another way.

 

He was very successful at Cheltenham with two promotions, and he became the Championship's longest serving manager at Burnley,

 

He is still revered by Notts.County fans after taking them to promotion. The Chairman's parting comments when Cotterill left to join Portsmouth, 'The job that Steve did here will live long in the memory of Notts. County fans, and, as is the mark of all great managers, he leaves the club in a much better position than when he arrived.'

 

He went on to stabilise Portsmouth when they were in complete turmoil.

 

After being in the relegation places he eventually preserved Forests' Championship status by a ten point margin.

 

Now, that doesn't sound so bad, does it? 

[Nibor]

Apologies however I missed the glaring error in the above, namely that results are in fact 55% better under SC, to date.

We've gone from not enough points per game to stay up, to not enough points per game to stay up. You can say anything you like with stats.

[Nibor]

The significant difference between the criticism of SOD and now SC are:

 

1) Those of SC started from day one, whereas at least SOD was given the courtesy of an opportunity to prove he was a failure

2) Those at SC have been full of personal venom, vitriol and character assassination to a degree thankfully not directed at SOD.

 

That is my essential point.

I think 1) was entirely predictable given how many objected to his appointment and 2) is inaccurate. There was plenty of vitriol, venom and character assassination directed at SOD often by the very people bemoaning legitimate criticism of Cotterill as the same now. For every "dumb, bullshitter" comment about Cotterill there was at least one "boring, miserable" comment about SOD. I've even seen one poster who slated SOD for having a boring black country accent defend Cotterill on the basis that people only think he's dumb because of his accent. You could hardly make it up.

[Nibor]

I said it was long, not enjoyable. Your posts are never that.

So, I beg to differ as to Cotterill's past. He is well regarded at Notts County and Burnley.

I can't be arsed to read your reply with this, since your last one veered from puerile characterisations of the manager to inaccurate statements about me.

Time this wanky thread was put to bed. Ta-ta.

Ah the old hypocrite's flounce. G'nite.

[BCFC Jordan]

That's an extremely rose-tinted view, Nogbad.

 

If you ask Pompey fans for their opinions of him, the majority will be unfavourable. Forest staying up was more down to SOD, hence why he was appointed there manager at the end of that season. Burnley fans are a mixed bag, most say he at least stabilised the club but the football was very poor on the eye. His record at County was good, but even County fans say the team was far too good for that level, however, you do have to credit him for the win ratio he got there (albeit only for a small amount of games).

[Red-Robbo]

Ah the old hypocrite's flounce. G'nite.

I've flounced back, Mr Tedium.

Good luck with your plan to ensure the manager is always supported by 51% of the fanbase. Perhaps when you buy the club you'll be able to implement this plan to democratically elect playing staff. Good luck with that one...

[NickJ]

We've gone from not enough points per game to stay up, to not enough points per game to stay up. You can say anything you like with stats.

 

Of course you can say anything with stats, the question, is it both based on accurate facts, and is it meaningful.

 

Extrapolating points per game of both managers this season over a full term, SOD comes out at 36, and SC comes out at 56.

 

No team has ever stayed up with 36 points, and no team has ever been relegated with 56 points.

 

Hence, you are incorrect, points per game under the current manager is sufficient to stay up, the problem is the weight of the opening 19 games.

 

Or, if you like, as you might put it, SC is "bright enough" to keep us up, whereas SOD wasn't "bright enough" to keep us up. 

 

 

 

I think 1) was entirely predictable given how many objected to his appointment and 2) is inaccurate. There was plenty of vitriol, venom and character assassination directed at SOD often by the very people bemoaning legitimate criticism of Cotterill as the same now. For every "dumb, bullshitter" comment about Cotterill there was at least one "boring, miserable" comment about SOD. I've even seen one poster who slated SOD for having a boring black country accent defend Cotterill on the basis that people only think he's dumb because of his accent. You could hardly make it up.

 

Many of the comments about SOD have been since he left, not while he was here.

 

I think you would be very hard pressed to assemble a collection of quotes about SOD with anywhere near as much vitriol and personal insults as I have reproduced in this thread.

[Major Isewater]

[Nibor]

I've flounced back, Mr Tedium.

You've spent 3 months arguing in a majority of your posts about our ex manager so the irony here is almost funny.

Good luck with your plan to ensure the manager is always supported by 51% of the fanbase. Perhaps when you buy the club you'll be able to implement this plan to democratically elect playing staff. Good luck with that one...

I guess I'll repeat it one last time for the hard of thinking but there is a big difference between already supported by a majority of the fanbase (something I didn't say), and objected to by a majority of the fanbase (something I did). They are not opposites.

[Nibor]

Of course you can say anything with stats, the question, is it both based on accurate facts, and is it meaningful.

 

Extrapolating points per game of both managers this season over a full term, SOD comes out at 36, and SC comes out at 56.

 

No team has ever stayed up with 36 points, and no team has ever been relegated with 56 points.

 

Hence, you are incorrect, points per game under the current manager is sufficient to stay up, the problem is the weight of the opening 19 games.

 

Or, if you like, as you might put it, SC is "bright enough" to keep us up, whereas SOD wasn't "bright enough" to keep us up. 

Fair enough, I've miscounted. I think SOD would have achieved more had he stayed than Cotterill has, for me the signs were there and IMO we'd have done better in the transfer window than players like Elliott and Barnett - signings which fill me with dread. I would be delighted if I am proven wrong about Cotterill but when even his fiercest defenders have no confidence in him what does that tell you?

 

If we were sacking SOD we should have made a better appointment than one most of the fans objected to.

Many of the comments about SOD have been since he left, not while he was here.

 

I think you would be very hard pressed to assemble a collection of quotes about SOD with anywhere near as much vitriol and personal insults as I have reproduced in this thread.

I disagree, there was plenty of vitriol about SOD whilst he was here. Also, I don't think pointing out that someone doesn't come across as intelligent but as a bullshitter is vitriol either.

[Red-Robbo]

You've spent 3 months arguing in a majority of your posts about our ex manager so the irony here is almost funny.

I guess I'll repeat it one last time for the hard of thinking but there is a big difference between already supported by a majority of the fanbase (something I didn't say), and objected to by a majority of the fanbase (something I did). They are not opposites.

Nibor: you are an intelligent guy and your posts often make sensible points - albeit couched in a dry, superior, slightly sneery tone, which has probably irritated more people than any post match interview given by any manager.

You say I'm a hypocrite because I've criticised O'Driscoll but post here that I am bored of the whole SOD v SC endless roundabout. That is - to use one of your favourite expressions - a category error. I'll express it plainly: Yes I've been critical of the last manager but I now think it's time for the whole debate to move on. I'm trying not to reference him. What is important is what's going on now at the club.

Now to the thing you took umbrage at - as you always do when someone challenges your assertions. You think Cotterill's appointment was a bad one and fair enough, you can take that view, although I think it's too early to judge.

Those two points that you use as "major reasons" why he was wrong for the club are very weak however. He is a "divisive" figure who was "opposed" by the "majority of fans". First up, how did you carry out this survey? I don't remember getting a ballot paper. It's fair to say, his appointment was opposed noisily by a number of people on this board, but you can't extrapolate that to the fanbase as a whole. I suspect if you'd walked around the Gate on Steve's first match in charge and questioned every spectator you'd find some people with strong opinions, but the majority would say "let's see how he does" or "can't be as bad as the last bloke" and some would probably say "Steve who?"

There were people who raised objections to McInnes "not experienced enough"; Millen "the cheap option" even Johnson "not proven at this level". I can't remember Alan Dicks' appointment but I imagine there might've been some consternation then. Being a "divisive figure" doesn't mean you are a bad manager. When Stoke appointed Pulis for the second time, there were fan protests outside the ground, but of course when he proved successful those fans who would "never go again" drifted back. Bloody hell! The popular choice on this board seems to be Warnock who has "divisive figure" engraved on his cufflinks!

You also state, he was a bad appointment because his public pronouncements made him difficult for some fans to like. Bloody hell, when have we heard that before?!

My initial post on this thread said that post-match interviews - conducted in the heat of the moment as it were - do often contain some doozies. And 'I'm a winner' falls into that category. But really it doesn't matter what people say - he could've grabbed the Mic and said I Am A Dalek for all I care.

What matters is how he manages the team. We both can agree that there are some causes for concern there.

[Nogbad the Bad]

That's an extremely rose-tinted view, Nogbad.

 

If you ask Pompey fans for their opinions of him, the majority will be unfavourable. Forest staying up was more down to SOD, hence why he was appointed there manager at the end of that season. Burnley fans are a mixed bag, most say he at least stabilised the club but the football was very poor on the eye. His record at County was good, but even County fans say the team was far too good for that level, however, you do have to credit him for the win ratio he got there (albeit only for a small amount of games).

 

A bit perhaps Jordan, but it was an attempt to get some balance in response to a negative resume from Fiale.

 

Cotterill did a good job over all at all the clubs mentioned, and was outstanding at Cheltenham and Notts, County.

 

When you talk about the opinions of fans of former clubs they are often jaundiced by the way the manager left, or short periods of struggle just beforehand.

 

I'd maintain that his managerial record is pretty good, he certainly wasn't a failure or 'loser' at any of those 5 clubs, and the more balanced fans - the less bitter and reasoned majority with no axe to grind - would almost certainly credit him with doing a good job.

 

There are one or two other clubs where he had less of a positive effect, but perhaps a few ups and downs, and leaving critics in your wake, are to be expected in a managerial career spanning some 18 years.

[Kid in the Riot]

SC is absolutely despised by Forest fans, Nogbad.

[Nogbad the Bad]

SC is absolutely despised by Forest fans, Nogbad.

 

If you say so Kid - perhaps being a former successful manager of Notts. County, leading them to a storming promotion and being idolised by their fans, didn't help him to get off on the right foot in that respect. 

 

It makes no difference really what a few vocal Forest fans on forums say, if a neutral read OTIB they would think Cotterill is absolutely detested here at BCFC, when of course that isn't the opinion generally held by City fans at all.

[Barrs Court Red]

It has nothing to do with his time at County.

[NickJ]

Well this has been a cracking read

 

Manager says he's a 'Winner',  people get the hump as we've lost

 

The 'Winner' bit is all about self confidence and belief, showing that this defeat was bobbins, and was unacceptable. Because people in general dont like, or dont like confidence and mislabel it as arrogance or Americanism when it's not. It's determination to put right what is wrong, succeeding inspite of defeat. Im a winner reaffirms that belief. Simple stuff

Indeed many of the  'great' philosophers and successful people in the world will generally say in order to succeed you must fail first. Ask James Dyson, Steve Jobs and so on.

 

Why people are using this to lambast is beyond me.

 

We will either survive or we wont, as long as we have a club and are still following some sort of 'plan' then yippee. The navel gazing, the visciousness and the complete Panic, for some is like a car crash to watch. Many of the posters who are pro SC predicted we'd be bobbins at the seasons start and said we'd struggle, irrespective. No one listened and people are instead looking for people to blame for this 'failure'

It was pretty obvious we'd have a hard season, we are having a hard season. It's not over and we CAN still do it.

 

Take a step back and assess after we are safe/relegated (delete as appripriate)

 

Makes for a more stable board and quits the guttersniping.

 

 

Nibor: you are an intelligent guy and your posts often make sensible points - albeit couched in a dry, superior, slightly sneery tone, which has probably irritated more people than any post match interview given by any manager.

You say I'm a hypocrite because I've criticised O'Driscoll but post here that I am bored of the whole SOD v SC endless roundabout. That is - to use one of your favourite expressions - a category error. I'll express it plainly: Yes I've been critical of the last manager but I now think it's time for the whole debate to move on. I'm trying not to reference him. What is important is what's going on now at the club.

Now to the thing you took umbrage at - as you always do when someone challenges your assertions. You think Cotterill's appointment was a bad one and fair enough, you can take that view, although I think it's too early to judge.

Those two points that you use as "major reasons" why he was wrong for the club are very weak however. He is a "divisive" figure who was "opposed" by the "majority of fans". First up, how did you carry out this survey? I don't remember getting a ballot paper. It's fair to say, his appointment was opposed noisily by a number of people on this board, but you can't extrapolate that to the fanbase as a whole. I suspect if you'd walked around the Gate on Steve's first match in charge and questioned every spectator you'd find some people with strong opinions, but the majority would say "let's see how he does" or "can't be as bad as the last bloke" and some would probably say "Steve who?"

There were people who raised objections to McInnes "not experienced enough"; Millen "the cheap option" even Johnson "not proven at this level". I can't remember Alan Dicks' appointment but I imagine there might've been some consternation then. Being a "divisive figure" doesn't mean you are a bad manager. When Stoke appointed Pulis for the second time, there were fan protests outside the ground, but of course when he proved successful those fans who would "never go again" drifted back. Bloody hell! The popular choice on this board seems to be Warnock who has "divisive figure" engraved on his cufflinks!

You also state, he was a bad appointment because his public pronouncements made him difficult for some fans to like. Bloody hell, when have we heard that before?!

My initial post on this thread said that post-match interviews - conducted in the heat of the moment as it were - do often contain some doozies. And 'I'm a winner' falls into that category. But really it doesn't matter what people say - he could've grabbed the Mic and said I Am A Dalek for all I care.

What matters is how he manages the team. We both can agree that there are some causes for concern there.

 

CRACKING POSTS

[AshtonGreat]

I like this fact quite a lot, 3 wins in 27.. SC has already 5 wins and he's only been here 3 months, it's hardly glittering form but facts are facts SC is a better manager than SOD is for this club. SOD might write excellent programme notes, but results wise probably our worst ever manager.

Hear hear

[Kid in the Riot]

If you say so Kid - perhaps being a former successful manager of Notts. County, leading them to a storming promotion and being idolised by their fans, didn't help him to get off on the right foot in that respect. 

 

It makes no difference really what a few vocal Forest fans on forums say, if a neutral read OTIB they would think Cotterill is absolutely detested here at BCFC, when of course that isn't the opinion generally held by City fans at all.

 

As Barrs says, nothing to do with Notts C - it's hardly one of the bigger city football rivalries. Forest/Derby is the biggie in those parts.

 

He was despised at Forest due to his ridiculous, bullshit post-match interviews, his massive unjustified ego, his "direct" anti-football style of play, his lack of intelligence, persevering with tactics/players that don't work, bringing in physical "can do the dirty" types as opposed to play footballers with ability and nearly taking them down but for the saving grace of SOD coming in as coach.

 

Think that just about covers it.

[redcherryberry]

As Barrs says, nothing to do with Notts C - it's hardly one of the bigger city football rivalries. Forest/Derby is the biggie in those parts.

 

He was despised at Forest due to his ridiculous, bullshit post-match interviews, his massive unjustified ego, his "direct" anti-football style of play, his lack of intelligence, persevering with tactics/players that don't work, bringing in physical "can do the dirty" types as opposed to play footballers with ability and nearly taking them down but for the saving grace of SOD coming in as coach.

 

Think that just about covers it.

 

Yep not to mention his lack of due diligence when it comes to potential signings - funny thing is he dont mind telling everyone neither as he just cant keep his big job shut (see his comments upon Wade Elliot signing).

 

Im embarrassed he's the manager of my football team.

[Super]

Who actually cares what Forest fans think of him?

[cider_dog]

Listening to SOD orate was like sipping a fine  wine. La Crema Chardonnay (perhaps 2007 vintage?) would be appropriate.  So what if it's light citrus flavors were accented by hints of red pepper emotion (arm waving). The long and strong finish accented the oak flavors. It definitely lived up to its La Crema cliche, as the flavor of cream shined through. I could almost detect a hint of saffron spiced joviality in his reflections , but certainly the words that I drank were not worth slowing down my reflexes. But that was the beauty of this gifted conversationalist, he was a decent 'glass' to have after work, or with some mild cheese. Small berries with firm acidity. Lively citrus, subtle toasted oak, butterscotch, yellow apple, bright orange. Lovely vibrancy. Not a man for the 'stupid question.'

 

Listening to SC is like necking a warm can of Tenants super, sticking your head in a dustbin and asking your kids to hit it with a cricket bat, in the rain, on a Monday.

[HoldenBall]

Yep not to mention his lack of due diligence when it comes to potential signings - funny thing is he dont mind telling everyone neither as he just cant keep his big job shut (see his comments upon Wade Elliot signing).

 

Im embarrassed he's the manager of my football team.

I'm embarrassed that people like you support my football team

[timothy bird]

and Ian lodge, I'm embaressed that people like you don't think other City fans are entitled to a opinion !

[timothy bird]

what red cherry berry said is quite right !

[Red-Robbo]

Yep not to mention his lack of due diligence when it comes to potential signings - funny thing is he dont mind telling everyone neither as he just cant keep his big job shut (see his comments upon Wade Elliot signing).

Im embarrassed he's the manager of my football team.

Precisely what sort of due diligence did you want for Elliott, RCB?

He wasn't an 18-year-old from Kazakhstan - he was a very well known player who Steve had worked with in the past. He'll have had a physical, but he didn't need "scouting".

Considering he seems to be the sole player to leave Bramall Lane with some credit, it has hardly been a disasterous decision.

[timothy bird]

Drat, I've succumbed to this thread, but in fairness id like to say that in no way do I blame dl for sc, s appointment !

[Kid in the Riot]

Listening to SOD orate was like sipping a fine  wine. La Crema Chardonnay (perhaps 2007 vintage?) would be appropriate.  So what if it's light citrus flavors were accented by hints of red pepper emotion (arm waving). The long and strong finish accented the oak flavors. It definitely lived up to its La Crema cliche, as the flavor of cream shined through. I could almost detect a hint of saffron spiced joviality in his reflections , but certainly the words that I drank were not worth slowing down my reflexes. But that was the beauty of this gifted conversationalist, he was a decent 'glass' to have after work, or with some mild cheese. Small berries with firm acidity. Lively citrus, subtle toasted oak, butterscotch, yellow apple, bright orange. Lovely vibrancy. Not a man for the 'stupid question.'

 

Listening to SC is like necking a warm can of Tenants super, sticking your head in a dustbin and asking your kids to hit it with a cricket bat, in the rain, on a Monday.

 

Very good. Almost up there with this effort from a Forest fan:

 

 

Ah Steve Cotterill, the footballing equivalent of a botched prescription. You start off with a small sense of cautious optimism, feeling that brash positivity and quasi streetwise presentation will kick your blocked nose into touch...only to find a week later you've had your left leg amputated and you're shitting out your eyeballs.

I'd say good luck, you know...to make you feel better and all? But there's really no point, you're screwed. He's ******* dreadful.