Come And Have A Go If You Think You're Hard Enough

[Pheasant plucker]

Poxy Island of know worth or value, costs us more money than it's worth, if the 100 or so Falklanders want to be British so much then stick them on an Island off of Scotland somewhere so they can feel quite at home, about time we did the right thing and started giving back all the lands we stole during our shameful imperialistic past

One of the most ignorant, untrue, idiotic and juvenile passages its ever been my misfortune to stumble across. Go and move to a country you have some respect for - Argentina maybe?

[TV Tom]

One of the most ignorant, untrue, idiotic and juvenile passages its ever been my misfortune to stumble across. Go and move to a country you have some respect for - Argentina maybe?

How very rude, obviously not articulate enough to have a grown up debate.

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

How very rude, obviously not articulate enough to have a grown up debate.

grown up debate in your opening post you got some things wrong it was like a 5 year old wrote it!

[BS15_RED]

This is the problem with a lot of lefties, they're offended by everything and ashamed of nothing.

[Aizoon]

Exactly, but because he was New Labour, a lot of lefties seem to think what he did was ok.

Speaking as a lefty myself, I would cheer if Tory B Liar fell under a bus. However, he'll probably live to be 90 and get a state funeral. Scum like him always do

[Aizoon]

What hypocrite you are the UK had Hong Kong on 99 year lease, had we ignored that it would have been like an act war, just like when the Argies invaded the Falklands.

Right on the button. A bit complicated for our juvenile friend, though.

[Gibbs]

The Falkland Islands are Argentine, as much as the Isle of Wight is British. I wonder how we would feel if the I of W was inhabited by Argentines? Don't get me wrong as an ex servicemen I feel it was right and proper to defend the territory in the past, but British rule will be untenable in the future and I feel sure the Falklands will be Argentine.   

 

The Isle of Wight is 5 miles off the coast and inhabited by people who are happy . The Falklands island is about 300+ miles from Argentina. It only looks close on a map and proximity isn't a valid claim hundreds of years after people have settled there. No Argentine population was ever removed from the Falklands - it was an empty island after the Spanish (or French can't remember) left.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The Falkland Islands are Argentine, as much as the Isle of Wight is British. I wonder how we would feel if the I of W was inhabited by Argentines? Don't get me wrong as an ex servicemen I feel it was right and proper to defend the territory in the past, but British rule will be untenable in the future and I feel sure the Falklands will be Argentine.   

 

As an ex serviceman do you feel the same about Gibraltar?

 

IMO 2 banana republics displaying sabre rattling xenophobia to try to rally the voters in their countries where their economies are down the shitter and make the leaders look like they care.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

The Isle of Wight is 5 miles off the coast and inhabited by people who are happy . The Falklands island is about 300+ miles from Argentina. It only looks close on a map and proximity isn't a valid claim hundreds of years after people have settled there. No Argentine population was ever removed from the Falklands - it was an empty island after the Spanish (or French can't remember) left.

 

TMOR likes to go against the grain on every thread it seems.

[TRL]

As an ex serviceman do you feel the same about Gibraltar?

IMO 2 banana republics displaying sabre rattling xenophobia to try to rally the voters in their countries where their economies are down the shitter and make the leaders look like they care.

He like Harry's is talking utter bollox.

If Argentina could could not keep an island thousands and thousands of miles from its legitimate owners, how the hell can the defend the inhabitants if some other nation decides it wants a piece of the action. Argentine's want the oil they have known it was their for years. It is also used a a political stick every time they have elections. Tmor and Harry's showing some nasty but true colours here. With Harry's talking utter utter bolox to back up his argument... Give back hong Kong indeed.... The lease was up. Please stop talking bollox before delivering utter crap diatribe.

[BS15_RED]

Speaking as a lefty myself, I would cheer if Tory B Liar fell under a bus. However, he'll probably live to be 90 and get a state funeral. Scum like him always do

Respect to you for saying that.

[Mighty Squirrel Kingdom]

The Falklands campaign was the only thing I ever thought Thatcher got right. And Herr Kreitein was right to send Rattin off too.

 

As others have written before me, Buenos Aires only ever plays this card when they're trying to distract the Argentines from some sort of domestic disaster or they're trying to whip up some sort of patriotic nonsense before the World Cup.

[Mahatma Coate]

Poxy Island of know worth or value, costs us more money than it's worth, if the 100 or so Falklanders want to be British so much then stick them on an Island off of Scotland somewhere so they can feel quite at home, about time we did the right thing and started giving back all the lands we stole during our shameful imperialistic past

Oh yes, let's apply today's values to yesterday's world. And for the lands we took over do you really think no other "imperialist power" would have taken them over? There ain't a country on earth that hasn't done some bad stuff at some time in the past and not one that hasn't done some good stuff.

You can't change what you did, it's what you do next that counts.

And have you ever been to the Falklands, or is your opinion based on something a newspaper hack churned out?

[Shelton’s Love Gravy]

Tony Blair proved to be a massive let-down, him and the milk-snatcher should have been charged with war crimes

He did her on his first day in office if I remember correctly...

[Aizoon]

The Falklands campaign was the only thing I ever thought Thatcher got right. And Herr Kreitein was right to send Rattin off too.

As others have written before me, Buenos Aires only ever plays this card when they're trying to distract the Argentines from some sort of domestic disaster or they're trying to whip up some sort of patriotic nonsense before the World Cup.

Also suggests that they know they've got no chance on the WC either.

[Eco]

Respect to you for saying that.

I think you'll find most leftys feel the same about TB but you don't seem to understand that.

[Cambridge Batch Red]

The Falkands are British. Wave your little banner argies, that's all you ever will do.

[North Lincs Red]

I've never been called a "nauseating lefty muppet" before, i can't stop chuckling to myself  , do you know if Billy Bragg is performing down Glastonbury again this year?

Really ? You do surprise me ...

[Port Said Red]

I am not sure we have a sufficient navy to defend them in the same manner as before, I don't think many people realise how much we have cut back on numbers of ships and personnel to sail them, although I am sure that Cameron and co are hoping the Argentinians make a move so they can play the patriot card like Thatcher did in the 80's and seal their re-election.

[Avalonred]

I am not sure we have a sufficient navy to defend them in the same manner as before, I don't think many people realise how much we have cut back on numbers of ships and personnel to sail them, although I am sure that Cameron and co are hoping the Argentinians make a move so they can play the patriot card like Thatcher did in the 80's and seal their re-election.

We have Submarines and modern Ships equipt with Cruise Missiles which can do the job of a whole fleet thirty years ago. We also have a permanent military presence on the Islands as a deterrent.... and have feed from satellite which would give an early warning. They would be VERY silly to try it again.

[Avalonred]

.... meant to add....

 

I'm sure the Frenchies would give them lots of military hardware if they asked for it ( a la Exocets before)

[Monkeh]

We have Submarines and modern Ships equipt with Cruise Missiles which can do the job of a whole fleet thirty years ago. We also have a permanent military presence on the Islands as a deterrent.... and have feed from satellite which would give an early warning. They would be VERY silly to try it again.

The only thing our fleet is missing is a modern Aircraft Carieer,

[Avalonred]

The only thing our fleet is missing is a modern Aircraft Carieer,

Yes, but in this instance, the islands would do the job, there are Typhoons based there, I'm sure they could get a few more down there pretty quick with a tanker to refuel their journey.

I would hope we learnt from the massive mistakes during the last engagement.

[Drew Peacock]

The Falkland Islands are Argentine, as much as the Isle of Wight is British..   

 

As much as the Channel Islands are French.

 

OMG!  We have a billionaire foreign owner......................

[Aizoon]

As much as the Channel Islands are French.

 

OMG!  We have a billionaire foreign owner......................

 

Er... No, actually, it was the Normans that occupied England, and the Channel Islands are what remains of that Norman Duchy.

[Avalonred]

As much as the Channel Islands are French.

 

OMG!  We have a billionaire foreign owner......................

The Channel Islands swore allegence to the Duke of Normandy, they are not 'British' but they do have our protection due to the Queen being the ancestor of the Duke..... something like that anyway...

[Aizoon]

The Channel Islands swore allegence to the Duke of Normandy, they are not 'British' but they do have our protection due to the Queen being the ancestor of the Duke..... something like that anyway...

 

Successor, possibly?

[Avalonred]

Successor, possibly?

Maybe....

[WessexPest]

You have to let things go sometimes, especially when the people on the islands aren't Argentine and don't want to be. The 1982 invasion was not justified and all the deaths and injuries of the Falklands War flowed directly from it.

 

As for being "proud" or "ashamed" of the empire: The idea of investing historical events with emotions such as pride or shame, anger or joy, is one that I have some difficulty with. History happened, usually in a far more convoluted and compromised way than we'll ever get our heads round. I had no involvement in these events, I don't know anyone who did (I'm thinking pre-20th century here), so on what basis should I feel pride or shame? It seems to me to be part and parcel of our society's need to emote and to romanticize. I read history, can be gripped by it, feel the thrill of learning things I didn't know before, but do I feel pride in something that I had no part in and probably could never fully understand? No.

 

This may not seem important, but it is precisely this romanticizing of history, of feeling that we are in some way psychically connected to long dead events and people, that leads to intolerance of others who are equally as unassociated with those events as we are ourselves. 

Secondly, Empire. The British Empire can't be viewed in isolation. It was one Empire, the largest, in an age of empire. Therefore, to see it with anything approaching objectivity, it has to be looked at in context, and it is pointless trying to view it purely through the filter of 21st century secular morality.

Part of the motivation for empire was driven by the desire of Christians to evangelize the natives, but the churches went into Africa independently of governments. Commerce was also an important factor, but again with people like Cecil Rhodes moving north from the Cape and Frederick Lugard on the Niger, this wasn't government policy, it was driven by entrepreneurs. One of the few motivations for governments was balance-of-power politics in Europe. But probably the main driving force behind Britain's reluctant amassing of territory (most 19th century British governments were reluctant to join the scramble for Africa but were at the mercy of events) was slavery - the public outcry to abolish it.

Britain was the first nation in the world to ban the slave trade (1807) and then slavery in its territories (1834). From 1808 until 1860, the West Africa Squadron was tasked with ending the Atlantic slave trade being carried on by other governments or privateers. As a result some 150,000 would-be slaves were intercepted on their way to the Americas and taken back to Africa - usually Sierra Leone.

As Britain stifled the Atlantic slave trade, Livingstone's explorations into the Congo basin exposed the huge Arab East Coast slave trade. Livingstone, the Bono of his day, lobbied for European and American intervention in Africa to end the brutal traffic that he saw - and he did see horrific things. Britain finally enforced the end of the trade on the Sultan of Zanzibar in 1876.

This is too long for a post, but I'll just mention in passing the genocide attempted by the Germans of the Herero people in German South-West Africa - nothing the British did remotely compares; nor can Britain's colonial actions be compared to those of Belgium in the Congo and Rwanda. Britain led the decolonization process with the independence of Ghana in 1957. Britain was the only colonial power with viable transition plans, and although these mostly came to naught due to unrest, it did mean that there were more local graduates, especially in the West African colonies, able to run their own countries than in, for example, any of the French ex-colonies. 

[WessexPest]

Tony Blair proved to be a massive let-down, him and the milk-snatcher should have been charged with war crimes  

 

You can't even remotely compare the two.

 

Blair's invasion of Iraq was a war crime - and an unequivocal one - because it was an aggressive, unprovoked, unnecessary war.

 

What unequivocally was a war crime in the case of the Falklands was the unprovoked invasion of the islands by Argentina that started the war. If that doesn't happen, no Argentine soldiers or sailors get killed.