I'm Not Listening To The Forum 'sages' Anymore

[Cowshed]

Could you expand a little? The only signing guidelines that I've noticed as changing is the decision to primarily play our U18s in the 21s team rather than bring in hordes of players to fill that team. I've also seen reports that the U21's are playing the wing-back system like the first team, this seems to show a continuity and clear pathway between the first team and U21s.

Which is a change from last season. Hopefully these are collective decisions including the likes of Brian Tinnion to change how players are recruited, and selected v a decision made by somebody who is here short term.

The same goes for playing through the thirds, and having players [the ten] dropping off, which was different to the XI's style.

I would welcome a "intelligent" possession based club style with a clear synergy through the pathway, but it can't be based on short termism, and constant change.

[SuperRed]

Which is a change from last season. Hopefully these are collective decisions including the likes of Brian Tinnion to change how players are recruited, and selected v a decision made by somebody who is here short term.

 

 

Yes I agree. A change for the better in my opinion. It seemed, from the outside at least, that in the past coupe of seasons we were signing a lot of average U21 players who were released by other clubs to simply make up the numbers for us at that level. Now it seems we're thinking long term and exposing our U18 players to U21 football earlier. Obviously if there is a standout player at U21 level for a relatively local side you would like to think we would try and sign him, but I don't think we should be signing players to to simply fill a gap when we have players at U18 level who can do that and who will improve because of the experience. 

[spudski]

Allied to job roles that have now changed, and signing guidelines that have changed. Before the Head coach worked within the structure as defined by the FC, now the manager does the opposite even deciding how the U21's will be selected above the coaches running those teams. The changes go far beyond results.

Listen to Cowshed he knows what he's talking about...that is spot on fella.

 

All looks Rosy now...but when you allow a manager to dictate and not follow a Clubs structure, then it creates an unstable structure for the future.

 

It's great we are getting the results, and lets hope we get promotion. But the Club has to learn from it's mistakes in the past. We've been here twice before...gaining promotion...and each time we've failed and come back down again.

 

The Club has to be strong and not allow the present manager to overlord what is going on in the Academy and who is allowed to be recruited...he is undermining those who have been employed to do such things. It is BT's job to do that.

Who has given authority to SC to do this? It only leads to splits and disharmony.

 

We all know stats show that SC won't be here forever...so the Club need to put their foot down and say...'this is how we work...these are the people we employ to do specific jobs...as a manager you adhere to these philosophy's'.

 

That way...any manager who works for us can move in seamlessly and not have to change things to 'his liking'.

 

Think of it like politics. Whoever is voted into power, ends up spending a vast amount of time changing how things are run in the Country to their liking...then the circle starts again and it never gets fixed.

 

We as a Club have to have a structure and plan and philosophy that we stick too and not allow one man who will eventually leave to dictate...it's just asking for disaster long term.

 

SC's ideas may be good short term...but we have to think long term.

[bristol south end]

Thought i might add a post.  Pushing hard to achive 5k in posts before anything is read

[Andy082005]

Are you saying there can't be city fans like that??? I'm sure you realise by reading the forum that there is..... or put it another way they are on here 24/7 when things are bad but don't have the bottle too come on here and say.... hands up got it wrong....

Anyone who reads this forum regularly could write a list of these exact posters!!

 

I am not saying that there arnt posters who may come on when they are right with an "I told you so attitude"....and I agree, there may be some who will never come on and hold their hands up and admit they are wrong.

 

I dont believe for one second though, there is a City fan out there, who  hopes a manager like Cotterill fails ...."because its not the manager they wanted in charge"

[Aizoon]

I am not saying that there arnt posters who may come on when they are right with an "I told you so attitude"....and I agree, there may be some who will never come on and hold their hands up and admit they are wrong.

 

I dont believe for one second though, there is a City fan out there, who  hopes a manager like Cotterill fails ...."because its not the manager they wanted in charge"

 

I would like to think you're wrong, but I bet there's a few. Look at the feud between a certain frequent poster and a certain ex-manager.

[Aizoon]

Listen to Cowshed he knows what he's talking about...that is spot on fella.

 

All looks Rosy now...but when you allow a manager to dictate and not follow a Clubs structure, then it creates an unstable structure for the future.

 

It's great we are getting the results, and lets hope we get promotion. But the Club has to learn from it's mistakes in the past. We've been here twice before...gaining promotion...and each time we've failed and come back down again.

 

The Club has to be strong and not allow the present manager to overlord what is going on in the Academy and who is allowed to be recruited...he is undermining those who have been employed to do such things. It is BT's job to do that.

Who has given authority to SC to do this? It only leads to splits and disharmony.

 

We all know stats show that SC won't be here forever...so the Club need to put their foot down and say...'this is how we work...these are the people we employ to do specific jobs...as a manager you adhere to these philosophy's'.

 

That way...any manager who works for us can move in seamlessly and not have to change things to 'his liking'.

 

Think of it like politics. Whoever is voted into power, ends up spending a vast amount of time changing how things are run in the Country to their liking...then the circle starts again and it never gets fixed.

 

We as a Club have to have a structure and plan and philosophy that we stick too and not allow one man who will eventually leave to dictate...it's just asking for disaster long term.

 

SC's ideas may be good short term...but we have to think long term.

 

Indeed. Look what's happened at Man Ure...

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Listen to Cowshed he knows what he's talking about...that is spot on fella.

 

All looks Rosy now...but when you allow a manager to dictate and not follow a Clubs structure, then it creates an unstable structure for the future.

 

It's great we are getting the results, and lets hope we get promotion. But the Club has to learn from it's mistakes in the past. We've been here twice before...gaining promotion...and each time we've failed and come back down again.

 

The Club has to be strong and not allow the present manager to overlord what is going on in the Academy and who is allowed to be recruited...he is undermining those who have been employed to do such things. It is BT's job to do that.

Who has given authority to SC to do this? It only leads to splits and disharmony.

 

We all know stats show that SC won't be here forever...so the Club need to put their foot down and say...'this is how we work...these are the people we employ to do specific jobs...as a manager you adhere to these philosophy's'.

 

That way...any manager who works for us can move in seamlessly and not have to change things to 'his liking'.

 

Think of it like politics. Whoever is voted into power, ends up spending a vast amount of time changing how things are run in the Country to their liking...then the circle starts again and it never gets fixed.

 

We as a Club have to have a structure and plan and philosophy that we stick too and not allow one man who will eventually leave to dictate...it's just asking for disaster long term.

 

SC's ideas may be good short term...but we have to think long term.

 

Well one very important thing seems to have been learned over the past 5 years, we have learned how to win games and that is a novelty the past 3 managers were unable to give us.

 

Hopefully the important stuff happening behind the scenes might even get a chance to reveal itself later this season in some form but only time will tell about that.

[Alex_BCFC]

Not a lot to moan about at the moment of course, but we still have to remember it's only 8 games in.. I remember Orient won their first 15 games last season and didn't go up.. Still early days

Not quite true as they won their first 8. After 15 games they had only lost once and drawn twice. Just 3 wins in their last 10 saw them drop out of the top two.

[Bar BS3]

Posts like this really annoy me.  It implies there are some City fans out there, who "want us to fail so they can be proven right"

 

Ridiculous

There are several posters on here who are nowhere to be seen in threads that have a positive slant to them. Even on match day threads, you see the same old posts from the same old posters who are silent until we concede a goal or lose a game.

 

There are certainly people who post on here who seem to take satisfaction in us failing. Of course I doubt that they want us to lose, but they certainly only appear when there is something to be negative about.

 

As another reply has already said, regular users of this forum could give you a list of those who only ever appear on here to slag of the team/club/board/manager etc.

['Orns]

I was very close to tweeting Jon Lansdown last night. I was very vocal on twitter when SC was appointed, and in the fashion he was appointed and wanted to apologise

 

I was wrong. The obvious team spirit he has created in something we've not seen down the Gate in a long time, since GJ's early days. I like it, winning football matches helps, of course, and the real test will come when we've lost a couple. Right now though it's great being a City fan. Long may it continue

 

Like the quote from Andy earlier on in this thread from a friend, that's exactly what I want to read about in my club's manager

[Leveller]

There are several posters on here who are nowhere to be seen in threads that have a positive slant to them. Even on match day threads, you see the same old posts from the same old posters who are silent until we concede a goal or lose a game.

There are certainly people who post on here who seem to take satisfaction in us failing. Of course I doubt that they want us to lose, but they certainly only appear when there is something to be negative about.

As another reply has already said, regular users of this forum could give you a list of those who only ever appear on here to slag of the team/club/board/manager etc.

Do it then.

[RedRock]

I really don't see that we deviated greatly from the '5 Pillars'. We've just added a 6th, 'Leaders & Winners Only'. That'll do me just fine as it addresses something I've been whining about for years.

I remember, after last season's Sheffield Utd game, SC came out with the 'I'm a Winner' statement. Many laughed .... are you laughing at him now?

I was a neutral on his appointment. I think we were in such a mess I didn't know who would be a 'right fit'. Still early days but a 'highly promising' from me both on strategy and results.

Hats off to SL for making a brave and bold decision on his appointment if he does pull promotion off this season.

[BCFC_Dan]

Listen to Cowshed he knows what he's talking about...that is spot on fella.

 

All looks Rosy now...but when you allow a manager to dictate and not follow a Clubs structure, then it creates an unstable structure for the future.

 

It's great we are getting the results, and lets hope we get promotion. But the Club has to learn from it's mistakes in the past. We've been here twice before...gaining promotion...and each time we've failed and come back down again.

 

The Club has to be strong and not allow the present manager to overlord what is going on in the Academy and who is allowed to be recruited...he is undermining those who have been employed to do such things. It is BT's job to do that.

Who has given authority to SC to do this? It only leads to splits and disharmony.

 

We all know stats show that SC won't be here forever...so the Club need to put their foot down and say...'this is how we work...these are the people we employ to do specific jobs...as a manager you adhere to these philosophy's'.

 

That way...any manager who works for us can move in seamlessly and not have to change things to 'his liking'.

 

Think of it like politics. Whoever is voted into power, ends up spending a vast amount of time changing how things are run in the Country to their liking...then the circle starts again and it never gets fixed.

 

We as a Club have to have a structure and plan and philosophy that we stick too and not allow one man who will eventually leave to dictate...it's just asking for disaster long term.

 

SC's ideas may be good short term...but we have to think long term.

 

This is absolutely spot on.

 

Last time we went up, momentum and team spirit built by a good short-term manager tricked us all into believing we had a club that belonged at the top of the Championship. What we actually had was a club that belonged in League One adorned with one expensive bauble after another in the belief it would soon make the next step.

 

Cotterill, like Johnson, is exactly the right man to turn round a struggling club and build something positive with momentum. This makes him the right man for City for this season and probably next. However, this time the momentum must be harnessed and used to tide the club over whilst a longer term strategy is pursued.

 

Bringing in "5 pillars" and O'Driscoll 12-18 months ago was the right move at completely the wrong time. It's impossible to develop young players to play in the right way at a club that's in a downward spiral and without a solid core of senior players to help the youngsters. It was doomed to failure, but it wasn't a bad idea in itself.

 

With positive momentum generated by Cotterill, the logical next step will be to focus on the development further down the club. I hope that the development squads are being coached according to the ideals spoken by O'Driscoll and that players can and will be brought in to the first team carefully.

 

I'm prepared to believe, for the moment, that Cotterill can be the man to implement the long term plan as well as the short term, but if he can't then the board will need to be prepared to dispense with a successful manager for someone who will ensure the club is set up for long term success. It's a shame Sean O'Driscoll already had his go, because under better circumstances he'd be perfect.

[REDOXO]

So some comments!

 

I'm not sure many of us listen to forum 'sages', beyond what it takes to write our own response to what is said, however I do very much take RedM's point, if posters (and to an extent the club) listened to some of the drivel posted on here we would all be idiots, drunks and manic depressive's!

 

The appointment of SC showed about an 80/20 split in favour of antagonism toward the club and Mr. Cottrell himself. There were even posters that implied that there was some deep dark secret that only they and a few chosen ones knew about SC and it was all going to come out and explode into the face's of the board who did not hold proper interviews for the vacancy! What bloody nonsense! Gladly one or two rarely post anymore, I guess through embarrassment, but they will be waiting for the day that SC does leave, to say they told us all so, much like Gary Johnson with a few....Managers will get fired or move on ultimately it is what will happen! 

 

The board have been shown to have made an excellent decision (some will say finally and I do have some sympathy there) and no one can claim they listened to anything written on here....SO GOOD ON THEM!

 

Mr. Cottrell is doing an excellent job and despite what some may think the 5 pillars strategy is still intact! The overarching strategy was to improve our youth system gain grade 2 and ultimately grade 1 status for the academy bring in/through younger players and build a club in the vision of Harry Dolman from the ground up! This strategy moves forward unabated, despite more nonsense written on here, which will give the club sustainability beyond the billions of Mr Lansdown one day!

 

SC did have an advantage over both McInness and SOD in as much the contracts of many players that effectively sucked money out of the club came to an end which freed resources that SOD obviously did not have. McInness while being a victim of the same was also an architect of the problem...His buys were for the most part poor as were his decisions regarding the backroom....

 

SC has signed in the close season a group of young players that for the most part could have played at a higher level and in answer to the mercenary thing, it is a matter of record some accepted lower wages to play together in this group! This is down to the ability of SC to sell the dream of a team rising through the league with a new stadium and a wealthy owner....I also suspect all the players are on good promotion bonuses...And fair play to them...On top of this Wilbraham is showing to be what he is...A class act with some top level experience, coupled with SC's very own 35 year old midfield general (Wade Elliot) we have everything required to ,make a significant go at promotion....

 

So we don't become drunken, manically depressed idiots, everyone needs to enjoy it for what it is now...It will come to an end one day, but long may it continue!

[Guest]

And yet.....

 

It is the vocal Whingers and Sages that helped push out O'Driscoll earlier than if we had all sat around "waiting to see".

 

It is the screaming as GJ tries to play 8 central midfielders out of position that made the Board realise what a shambles it had become.

 

It is that "wait and see" attitude that has got the gas relegated and meant there are still no Sack the Board demos.  They could drift down into the Cherry Red Records Hellenic League with nary a murmur.

 

 

Passive, sheep-like, wait-and-see fans get the club they deserve.

I (glos boy) had many posts/polls and a sig wanting rid of the dreary, thank god SL saw the light just in time. Now the dreariness has gone hope,belief and brightness has returned. Those polls were way in favour of S`od staying at least till the end of the season and many wanted beyond that.

The players were not performing for dreary and dreariness is what appeared in most games.

SL/JL are the ones who should take all the credit for the position we are in now, no-one else

[Monkeh]

the porblem with the under 21's and under 18's last season was that our previous managment teams signed players on short term contracts just to fill places in these teams which stunted the devlopment of our own players (which for me is the reason Joe Bryans Progress seemed to of stalled)

 

This season we are filling the under 21's and under 18's with our own players when they under 21's are short we take them out of the under 18's to play and the same with the under 18's we take them out of the under 16's to fill the team,

The is totally correct, there seems to be less focus on results and under 21 right the way through the youth teams and more focus on doing things the right way and the players devlopment and needs,

this is the correct apporch and seems to of started this season, I think Pelling has to take most of the credit for that,

 

We will hopefully start seeing results in the next three or four seasons from this,

[Red-Robbo]

 

. It's a shame Sean O'Driscoll already had his go, because under better circumstances he'd be perfect.

 

 

Excuse me while I piss myself laughing.

 

Much is made of the structures and the sort of background changes SOD could bring to a club. Doncaster and Bournemouth are held up as examples.

 

Yet what is the long-term legacy at those clubs? Doncaster went up but struggled and SOD departed after a 17-match winless streak. And now where are they? How come this "long-term" background for success he was building didn't work. Even when he was there?

 

As for BoMo: flying now, but it's Eddie Howe and two Russian billionaires they have to thank for that. Not a man who left them in the same division he found them.

[Monkeh]

Excuse me while I piss myself laughing.

 

Much is made of the structures and the sort of background changes SOD could bring to a club. Doncaster and Bournemouth are held up as examples.

 

Yet what is the long-term legacy at those clubs? Doncaster went up but struggled and SOD departed after a 17-match winless streak. And now where are they? How come this "long-term" background for success he was building didn't work. Even when he was there?

 

As for BoMo: flying now, but it's Eddie Howe and two Russian billionaires they have to thank for that. Not a man who left them in the same division he found them.

so very true,

[spudski]

[Esmond Million's Bung]

[spudski]

What's funnier is managers who complicate things beyond the wit of 'most' footballers, me I fear for England under 19's I really do.

That's why Arsenal and Liverpool and Southampton are struggling so much...

[WTFiGO!?!]

That's why Arsenal and Liverpool and Southampton are struggling so much...

Or why it took until dec 28th to amass our current point total, last season

To my mind SOD is one of Football's philosophers, if that's what this is about.

We are in league One, however, and last season we were reliant on the genius of JET and then a change of manager to keep us in it.

Simple though the observation is, our players seemed lost to the philosophy of SOD on the pitch and our standing in the table was unacceptable.

Results of history don't particularly care for systems, processes and philosophies. Hard though the world is.

Hope SOD settles into a more technical role within football's infrastructure as I actually liked him and think he has much to offer.

[spudski]

Or why it took until dec 28th to amass our current point total, last season

To my mind SOD is one of Football's philosophers, if that's what this is about.

We are in league One, however, and last season we were reliant on the genius of JET and then a change of manager to keep us in it.

Simple though the observation is, our players seemed lost to the philosophy of SOD on the pitch and our standing in the table was unacceptable.

Results of history don't particularly care for systems, processes and philosophies. Hard though the world is.

Hope SOD settles into a more technical role within football's infrastructure as I actually liked him and think he has much to offer.

I have to agree with you... I think a lot of SoD's and other like minded managers thoughts and ideas are lost on British players.

It's ok in the Prem as you have lots of foreign players who have grown up playing 'technical' football.

 

As Arsene Wenger once said, when asked why he doesn't sign many British players...'I prefer Intelligent players'.

I think a lot of the youngsters coming through in England now have grown up around foreign players and coaches and now have some idea of what is being asked of them. So I think SoD will do fine at the FA.

 

I had the fortune to speak to Gareth Southgate down in Salcombe recently and he was very happy at his appointment their.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

Listen to Cowshed he knows what he's talking about...that is spot on fella.

 

All looks Rosy now...but when you allow a manager to dictate and not follow a Clubs structure, then it creates an unstable structure for the future.

 

It's great we are getting the results, and lets hope we get promotion. But the Club has to learn from it's mistakes in the past. We've been here twice before...gaining promotion...and each time we've failed and come back down again.

 

The Club has to be strong and not allow the present manager to overlord what is going on in the Academy and who is allowed to be recruited...he is undermining those who have been employed to do such things. It is BT's job to do that.

Who has given authority to SC to do this? It only leads to splits and disharmony.

 

We all know stats show that SC won't be here forever...so the Club need to put their foot down and say...'this is how we work...these are the people we employ to do specific jobs...as a manager you adhere to these philosophy's'.

 

That way...any manager who works for us can move in seamlessly and not have to change things to 'his liking'.

 

Think of it like politics. Whoever is voted into power, ends up spending a vast amount of time changing how things are run in the Country to their liking...then the circle starts again and it never gets fixed.

 

We as a Club have to have a structure and plan and philosophy that we stick too and not allow one man who will eventually leave to dictate...it's just asking for disaster long term.

 

SC's ideas may be good short term...but we have to think long term.

 

Good post spudski...

 

May I interject what is in bold that GJ was a prime example?

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

I (glos boy) had many posts/polls and a sig wanting rid of the dreary, thank god SL saw the light just in time. Now the dreariness has gone hope,belief and brightness has returned. Those polls were way in favour of S`od staying at least till the end of the season and many wanted beyond that.

The players were not performing for dreary and dreariness is what appeared in most games.

SL/JL are the ones who should take all the credit for the position we are in now, no-one else

 

What still in L1 after over a decade of running the club?

 

I tip my cap to them 

[spudski]

What still in L1 after over a decade of running the club?

 

I tip my cap to them 

   

That did make me laugh fella...

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Listen to Cowshed he knows what he's talking about...that is spot on fella.

 

All looks Rosy now...but when you allow a manager to dictate and not follow a Clubs structure, then it creates an unstable structure for the future.

 

It's great we are getting the results, and lets hope we get promotion. But the Club has to learn from it's mistakes in the past. We've been here twice before...gaining promotion...and each time we've failed and come back down again.

 

The Club has to be strong and not allow the present manager to overlord what is going on in the Academy and who is allowed to be recruited...he is undermining those who have been employed to do such things. It is BT's job to do that.

Who has given authority to SC to do this? It only leads to splits and disharmony.

 

We all know stats show that SC won't be here forever...so the Club need to put their foot down and say...'this is how we work...these are the people we employ to do specific jobs...as a manager you adhere to these philosophy's'.

 

That way...any manager who works for us can move in seamlessly and not have to change things to 'his liking'.

 

Think of it like politics. Whoever is voted into power, ends up spending a vast amount of time changing how things are run in the Country to their liking...then the circle starts again and it never gets fixed.

 

We as a Club have to have a structure and plan and philosophy that we stick too and not allow one man who will eventually leave to dictate...it's just asking for disaster long term.

 

SC's ideas may be good short term...but we have to think long term.

 

I agree with the first part of the highlighted sentence, that's football. As for the 2nd part of the sentence I would suggest that it is already happening, unless of course SOD took the hard copy of the master plan with him when he left, why would it not be happening?.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

   

That did make me laugh fella...

 

I am here all week

 

Just don't get this love for the SL.. we're doing well atm which is great but to make out that they have god like status when really we haven't moved anywhere barring a couple of decent seasons since they took over is laughable. The likes of Wigan, QPR, Hull, Cardiff, Stoke etc have regardless of owners.

 

To me there is no strategy to make the club sustainable and it just seems they throwing a little cash and trusting their luck... No mention of Keith Burt here either who surely deserves some plaudits, they don't employ him just to make the tea

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I am here all week

 

Just don't get this love for the SL.. we're doing well atm which is great but to make out that they have god like status when really we haven't moved anywhere barring a couple of decent seasons since they took over is laughable. The likes of Wigan, QPR, Hull, Cardiff, Stoke etc have regardless of owners.

 

To me there is no strategy to make the club sustainable and it just seems they throwing a little cash and trusting their luck... No mention of Keith Burt here either who surely deserves some plaudits, they don't employ him just to make the tea

 

When was it ever different? this is BCFC more downs than up's, that's the way it has always been, at least with his money we have a chance of eventually getting it right and possibly even sustaining it, what chance would we have without it?.

 

Do you have a better idea about financing the club?