Red-Robbo Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Distrust for the "old politics" has never run as deep as this before though. I do not trust any of them, not a party or a politician. I can't see that UKIP is "new politics" though. Farage has been a Tory activist since he was 16. He belongs to the same privileged class that most of the government front bench do. Most, though not admittedly all, his senior party members are former Tory activist's, who left the Conservatives over the single issue of EU membership. At Strasbourg, UKIP members fiddled their expenses above and beyond the call of duty. Just like the "old politics" types did at Westminster. Hell, they even have an ex-MP as a party VP who took bribes. No, this really is a classic protest vote. We've had out-of-touch politicians, corruption and spin since Walpole really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 I can't see that UKIP is "new politics" though. Farage has been a Tory activist since he was 16. He belongs to the same privileged class that most of the government front bench do. Most, though not admittedly all, his senior party members are former Tory activist's, who left the Conservatives over the single issue of EU membership. At Strasbourg, UKIP members fiddled their expenses above and beyond the call of duty. Just like the "old politics" types did at Westminster. Hell, they even have an ex-MP as a party VP who took bribes. No, this really is a classic protest vote. We've had out-of-touch politicians, corruption and spin since Walpole really... ukip are as bad as all the other partys, the only thing they have going for it is the EU thing, they are just the super tories, you think things are bad under a consertiive govenment, a ukip would just be worse, but then Labour aren;t good lib dems aren;t good and the tories aren't good, basically who ever gets power us normal people are ****** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 What I'd wonder is say UKIP got power and held a referendum. What would they do if it didn't go their way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 What I'd wonder is say UKIP got power and held a referendum. What would they do if it didn't go their way? what ever they want as they are that sort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 ukip are as bad as all the other partys, the only thing they have going for it is the EU thing, they are just the super tories, you think things are bad under a consertiive govenment, a ukip would just be worse, but then Labour aren;t good lib dems aren;t good and the tories aren't good, basically who ever gets power us normal people are ****** I can't see that UKIP is "new politics" though. Farage has been a Tory activist since he was 16. He belongs to the same privileged class that most of the government front bench do. Most, though not admittedly all, his senior party members are former Tory activist's, who left the Conservatives over the single issue of EU membership. At Strasbourg, UKIP members fiddled their expenses above and beyond the call of duty. Just like the "old politics" types did at Westminster. Hell, they even have an ex-MP as a party VP who took bribes. No, this really is a classic protest vote.We've had out-of-touch politicians, corruption and spin since Walpole really... Then obviously enough is enough, i'm not overly impressed with UKIP but if they actually make politicians of the main parties 'finally get it', that's fine by me, the overwhelming majority who occasionally sit on their arses at Westminster are ******* useless, they make the same by election 'we hear you' speeches and then carry on doing exactly the same. and I repeat I never heard one question answered by main stream MP's last night, the labour guy on This week last night was like a broken record, he had one response to every single question even the the tory and lib dem MP's found slightly different ways of not answering a question. I was impressed with Carswell's speech last night, he does not appear to be your run of the mill UKIP candidate. One thing I am sure of Labour must be relieved that the Middleton and Heywood by election wasn't a week later because they would have lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I have no clue Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 I hope everyone will equally enjoy what is going to be a meltdown in the political spectrum. All while we get another Conservative-Libdem government which must be the best forcast right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 I hope everyone will equally enjoy what is going to be a meltdown in the political spectrum. All while we get another Conservative-Libdem government which must be the best forcast right now? Proportional representation would sort out this country, politicians would have to start working for the people, like they are supposed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 I was impressed with Carswell's speech last night, he does not appear to be your run of the mill UKIP candidate.Obviously,because he 'was' the Clacton Tory MP who defected to UKIP. Pretty obvious he only did this because he knew he would lose his seat at next years GE if he had stayed as a Tory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Proportional representation would sort out this country, politicians would have to start working for the people, like they are supposed to do. Amen to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 I will say it again, I am pissed off with hearing for over 20/30 years when things are going badly and a main stream party lose a by election or do badly in local elections "we hear you, we will change" and then all we hear is the sound of silence, politicians don't hear us, politicians don't care about us, politicians suddenly forget who they actually represent. Just ask yourself why Red Dawn voted in favour of the 2003 Iraq invasion?, do you think she believed in it? or do you believe that she already had a nice little earner within the government and hoped for maybe another promotion to sweeten her pension pot?, that is how low politics has become. I don't care for UKIP whatsoever, I don't care for any of the parties, what I care about is politicians telling us the truth, voting with conviction, carrying out the promises that got them elected in the first place and an end to party spin, if as a politician you are asked a question FFS answer it, I am pissed off watching so called politicians answering different questions with the same answer. and if seats to UKIP are what is needed to achieve that, then good for them, especially if sorts out UK politics once and for all, because it's in one self serving mess at the moment. it just goes to show what politicians are really like IMO, politics my arse, i'm alright Jack first and foremost more like. The problem with UKIP Esmond is that they are worse than the rest. A lot of them are already failed politicians, liars and cheats, who are trying to get the public to give them a 2nd chance. It's hard to comprehend how people can't see them for what they are,if UKIP are anti establishment then I'm a lesbian! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 The problem with UKIP Esmond is that they are worse than the rest. A lot of them are already failed politicians, liars and cheats, who are trying to get the public to give them a 2nd chance. It's hard to comprehend how people can't see them for what they are,if UKIP are anti establishment then I'm a lesbian! Bill you are an intelligent guy, I know that what you are saying is 100% correct, but the Westminster establishment need a big kick in the balls, otherwise it will be same old same old, another 5 years of broken promises, lies, corruption, theft of expenses, not listening to the public, not answering direct questions and them as individuals feathering their own personal nests + the nests that they will claim on but somebody else will live in, whilst watching porn movies and having duck houses installed, at our expense and it will still happen if labour get in, things really have to change, me I couldn't care 2 ***** if it's UKIP or the monster raving loony party or even the ******* Greens, they need a good kicking by the electorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted October 11, 2014 Admin Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 Some interseting articles in todays papers, one pointing out how different the face of politics might look if David Davies and Alan Johnson had been elected as leaders of the Tories and Labour, respectively. Not from the political elite, both having understanding and empathy with those from 'normal' backgrounds.http://www.david-daviesmp.co.uk/about-davidhttp://www.alanjohnson.org/index.php/biography/ Not a mention of Oxbridge or Eton and neither is an apparatchik with no experience of life beyond public school and Westminster. In general, I wouldn't trust any politician, of any persausion, from the furthest left, to the farmost right, as far as I could throw them, the trouble is, when more and more people ate feeling like that, where does it leave us, apart from in the shit......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Litoris Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Some interseting articles in todays papers, one pointing out how different the face of politics might look if David Davies and Alan Johnson had been elected as leaders of the Tories and Labour, respectively. Not from the political elite, both having understanding and empathy with those from 'normal' backgrounds.http://www.david-daviesmp.co.uk/about-davidhttp://www.alanjohnson.org/index.php/biography/ Not a mention of Oxbridge or Eton and neither is an apparatchik with no experience of life beyond public school and Westminster. In general, I wouldn't trust any politician, of any persausion, from the furthest left, to the farmost right, as far as I could throw them, the trouble is, when more and more people ate feeling like that, where does it leave us, apart from in the shit......... David Davies is about the only Tory who isn't morally bankrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 David Davies is about the only Tory who isn't morally bankrupt. That would put him amongst the 1% of the 625 MP's of any persuasion in parliament in your not morally bankrupt bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Litoris Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 That would put him amongst the 1% of the 625 MP's of any persuasion in parliament in your not morally bankrupt bracket. Yeah, it's probably closer to 2%. I reckon I could name 15 good men and women if I gave it some thought. Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell in particular are superb examples of what a politician can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Yeah, it's probably closer to 2%. I reckon I could name 15 good men and women if I gave it some thought. Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell in particular are superb examples of what a politician can be. Yeah both IRA apologists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Yeah, it's probably closer to 2%. I reckon I could name 15 good men and women if I gave it some thought. Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell in particular are superb examples of what a politician can be. Laughable. Treacherous cowards, ala Neville Chamberlain, the pair of them. I noticed Corbyn was out with his Stop the War / Socialist W****** Party / Communists Neutralists Defeatists mates last week marching / moaning about the air strikes in Iraq. He is obviously quite happy to see thousands brutally murdered by those Islamic State monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Laughable. Treacherous cowards, ala Neville Chamberlain, the pair of them. I noticed Corbyn was out with his Stop the War / Socialist W****** Party / Communists Neutralists Defeatists mates last week marching / moaning about the air strikes in Iraq. He is obviously quite happy to see thousands brutally murdered by those Islamic State monsters. Perhaps he thinks they won't work, which on current evidence is right. It's not just SWP /Communist lefties who oppose intervention. Ukip are against it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Perhaps he thinks they won't work, which on current evidence is right. It's not just SWP /Communist lefties who oppose intervention. Ukip are against it too. of course they are right, this is not our fight, it's strange to see Turkey who on past evidence could start a fight in an empty room still sitting on their hands. But Corbyn is still an IRA apologist as is Mcdonnell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Perhaps he thinks they won't work, which on current evidence is right. It's not just SWP /Communist lefties who oppose intervention. Ukip are against it too. Let's not forget the air strikes were called for by Iraq's democratically elected government. Kobani would have fallen by now without the U.S. air strikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Laughable. Treacherous cowards, ala Neville Chamberlain, the pair of them. I noticed Corbyn was out with his Stop the War / Socialist W****** Party / Communists Neutralists Defeatists mates last week marching / moaning about the air strikes in Iraq. He is obviously quite happy to see thousands brutally murdered by those Islamic State monsters. Is this the same Islamic state monsters that 6 months ago Cameron wanted to arm,and help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 of course they are right, this is not our fight, it's strange to see Turkey who on past evidence could start a fight in an empty room still sitting on their hands. But Corbyn is still an IRA apologist as is Mcdonnell. As I understand it, Corbyn and Mcdonnell have condemned IRA attacks, but consistently argued that a negotiated peace was needed - which meant talking to SF/Provos 15 years after they caused apoplexy with this idea that's exactly what happened. Even Norman Tebbit writing today acknowledges that it was the right thing to do, Britain is more peaceful now. Corbyn and McDonnell support the ultimate aim of a united Ireland, as do I incidentally, and according to surveys the majority of British people. This has to be achieved through peaceful means however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Litoris Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 As I understand it, Corbyn and Mcdonnell have condemned IRA attacks, but consistently argued that a negotiated peace was needed - which meant talking to SF/Provos 15 years after they caused apoplexy with this idea that's exactly what happened. Even Norman Tebbit writing today acknowledges that it was the right thing to do, Britain is more peaceful now. Corbyn and McDonnell support the ultimate aim of a united Ireland, as do I incidentally, and according to surveys the majority of British people. This has to be achieved through peaceful means however. Don't let any facts get in the way of a bit of Labour bashing from our resident Tory-boy. Also, to Gas Buster... The strikes won't work, the first and second wars have done nothing but create ISIS, so what on earth makes you think another idiotic invasion and intervention will do anything but make it worse? That kind of logic is mind blowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Don't let any facts get in the way of a bit of Labour bashing from our resident Tory-boy. Also, to Gas Buster... The strikes won't work, the first and second wars have done nothing but create ISIS, so what on earth makes you think another idiotic invasion and intervention will do anything but make it worse? That kind of logic is mind blowing. Where did I mention invasion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Is this the same Islamic state monsters that 6 months ago Cameron wanted to arm,and help? That was the Free Syrian Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Don't let any facts get in the way of a bit of Labour bashing from our resident Tory-boy. Also, to Gas Buster... The strikes won't work, the first and second wars have done nothing but create ISIS, so what on earth makes you think another idiotic invasion and intervention will do anything but make it worse? That kind of logic is mind blowing. You are a real one eyed hypocrite. I bash them all because they are all self serving hypocrites, I just bash labour more because it's my democratic right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Litoris Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 You are a real one eyed hypocrite. I bash them all because they are all self serving hypocrites, I just bash labour more because it's my democratic right. Not really, I bash Tory-boy's because that's my democratic right, but I've never professed to hate anyone. I am at least comfortable enough in my politics to say outright that I am of left wing ideologies and support the Labour party above the others as they are the least hateful, least racist, least interested in capitalism and the most interested in the issues that mean something to me. They're not very strong on any of those issues, to be honest. But they, to me, are the lesser of all the evils. There's no way I could ever contemplate supporting parties like UKIP and the Conservatives who preach hate, fear and inequality. it's just not in my nature. I also struggle to understand those who do support those ideologies. I've never once been presented with any information that would convince me that the right-wing of the political spectrum is anything short of evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Litoris Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Where did I mention invasion ? Seriously, man? You think this 'mission' will not eventually see troops on the ground? deluded much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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