Dewani Trial

[Red-Robbo]

Unprepared? 4 years, what were they doing?

 

You'll have to ask the South African public prosecutors office that one.

[...]

Thanks EMB, it's 2 against 2 now on this thread.

 

 

TFR

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Thanks EMB, it's 2 against 2 now on this thread.

 

 

TFR

 

Sorry TFR i'm not into that sort of thing.

[RedM]

I know enough about mental health from my job that you can't just turn PTSD off, unless of course you didn't have it in the first place.

So either he was misdiagnosed or he never had it.

Or it was in his interest to have it, and now it's not. I told you that Judge cured him.

[Lew-T]

Thank goodness the world isn't governed by your eyes.

**** me!

[chipdawg]

I know enough about mental health from my job that you can't just turn PTSD off, unless of course you didn't have it in the first place.

So either he was misdiagnosed or he never had it.

I must have missed the declaration that he no longer had any mental health issues. Sectioning someone who has just got off a plane would be virtually impossible, unless his behaviour on the flight indicated he was a danger to himself or his fellow passengers. Given that he's going back into his family home, he would have to have run up and down the plane wielding a knife and declaring himself the lizard king to be sectioned

It should also be pointed out that him having or not having PTSD or similar would not really be an indication of his guilt or not. Even if he'd done it, witnessing the act (especially if arranged hastily as alleged) could have led to significant mental trauma

[Guest]

I must have missed the declaration that he no longer had any mental health issues. Sectioning someone who has just got off a plane would be virtually impossible, unless his behaviour on the flight indicated he was a danger to himself or his fellow passengers. Given that he's going back into his family home, he would have to have run up and down the plane wielding a knife and declaring himself the lizard king to be sectioned

It should also be pointed out that him having or not having PTSD or similar would not really be an indication of his guilt or not. Even if he'd done it, witnessing the act (especially if arranged hastily as alleged) could have led to significant mental trauma

Thing is he was being detained in the UK under the MHA, then was flown out and stayed in a mental health hospital in SA - even the night after the acquittal. All of a sudden he's back in the UK without being at least detained for assessment?

[Robbored]

Thing is he was being detained in the UK under the MHA, then was flown out and stayed in a mental health hospital in SA - even the night after the acquittal. All of a sudden he's back in the UK without being at least detained for assessment?

That's because there's nothing wrong with him any longer. It was a stress related condition if you remember and now the source of said stress has gone.

A tad convenient that.

[chipdawg]

Thing is he was being detained in the UK under the MHA, then was flown out and stayed in a mental health hospital in SA - even the night after the acquittal. All of a sudden he's back in the UK without being at least detained for assessment?

But he was going into the care of his family and had previously been released from the care of whichever NHS Trust had sectioned him (or he may have had himself 'sectioned', which would be a clever thing to do if attempting to avoid deportation I suppose) so I don't think there would be grounds to lock him up pending an assessment. No doubt the SA authorities will provide a report to the local trust and they will invite him to an assessment. But unless he represents an ongoing risk to himself or the public, there is nothing to keep him detained under the MHA- regardless of the dubious nature if his recovery

[Robbored]

But he was going into the care of his family and had previously been released from the care of whichever NHS Trust had sectioned him (or he may have had himself 'sectioned', which would be a clever thing to do if attempting to avoid deportation I suppose) so I don't think there would be grounds to lock him up pending an assessment. No doubt the SA authorities will provide a report to the local trust and they will invite him to an assessment. But unless he represents an ongoing risk to himself or the public, there is nothing to keep him detained under the MHA- regardless of the dubious nature if his recovery

You're quite right of course but the bottom line is that he and his family successfully played the system.

[Red-Robbo]

You're quite right of course but the bottom line is that he and his family successfully played the system.

And continue to do so.

You might have read the family company is in trouble over one of their "luxury" care homes, near Chepstow, where residents were kept hungry, dehydrated and had no activities organised for them.

The Dewanis have said this all happened because Shrien was "distracted" by the trial. He was the finance director. Nothing to do with care standards!

[Guest]

But he was going into the care of his family and had previously been released from the care of whichever NHS Trust had sectioned him (or he may have had himself 'sectioned', which would be a clever thing to do if attempting to avoid deportation I suppose) so I don't think there would be grounds to lock him up pending an assessment. No doubt the SA authorities will provide a report to the local trust and they will invite him to an assessment. But unless he represents an ongoing risk to himself or the public, there is nothing to keep him detained under the MHA- regardless of the dubious nature if his recovery

He'd only been released to be flown to SA to then be detained in a hospital there.

As Alan says, a tad convient that he's seemingly over it all now

[Dollymarie]

That's because there's nothing wrong with him any longer. It was a stress related condition if you remember and now the source of said stress has gone.

A tad convenient that.

The trauma of his wife being killed was what triggered the PTSD, erm she's still dead, so why is he not still traumatised by that?

 

That's why its called post TRAUMATIC stress disorder. 

 

I know you aren't disagreeing with me Alan, I just used your quote as it seemed most relevant.

[Super]

I see his house has already been targeted in Bristol

[Robbored]

The trauma of his wife being killed was what triggered the PTSD, erm she's still dead, so why is he not still traumatised by that?

 

That's why its called post TRAUMATIC stress disorder. 

 

I know you aren't disagreeing with me Alan, I just used your quote as it seemed most relevant.

My own view on the Dewani case is that he might well have had some PTSD symptoms but you don't have to be a boffin to know how to magnify them. Obviously I don't know the details of his case and symptoms but did he experience flashbacks, distressing images, nightmares and a persistent state of anxiety? The bloody murder of his wife no doubt was a factor but my gut feeling is that any symptoms were exaggerated.

It would be no surprise to see Dewani return to normal life once the media scrum has lost interest.

In my career I worked regularly with PTSD sufferers, mostly as a result of the Falklands conflict and two or three others who had been mugged, one at gunpoint. There were others with PSTD as result of sexual abuse. Another who had been a dog of war mercenary and taken part and witnessed some shocking atrocities, including the blowing up with a land mine a bus load of children in error. The bus they were travelling on was regularly used by enemy soldiers.

It was very challenging work but ultimately rewarding.

[CiderHider]

I can't decide, guess we will never know as the SA judicial system could not get him to the stand, even after extraditing him.

 

You cannot ignore the men who have already been jailed who implicated him, why did they do that? They were going down anyway and some of the stories even though contradictory and full of holes did suggest he paid to have her killed.

 

 

Finger in the air, I think he a chancer who was desperate to get out of the marriage, a no mark dumbass who somehow managed to pull it off, he obviously thought no one would would batter an eyelid as it was SA, but the SA police and judicial system were twice as stupid as he was, that's what saved his sorry ass.

[chipdawg]

He'd only been released to be flown to SA to then be detained in a hospital there.

As Alan says, a tad convient that he's seemingly over it all now

But evidently he's been discharged from care

He may well be playing the system, but he won't have needed to do that to no get wheeled straight to the asylum after landing at Gatwick

[WhistleHappy]

And continue to do so.

You might have read the family company is in trouble over one of their "luxury" care homes, near Chepstow, where residents were kept hungry, dehydrated and had no activities organised for them.

The Dewanis have said this all happened because Shrien was "distracted" by the trial. He was the finance director. Nothing to do with care standards!

No doubt,if true, that residents were neglected to the extent described then it follows the Dewanis would have been too 'distracted' to take the fees and care charges during their period of 'distraction'... yeah right!

[northsomersetred]

And continue to do so.

You might have read the family company is in trouble over one of their "luxury" care homes, near Chepstow, where residents were kept hungry, dehydrated and had no activities organised for them.

The Dewanis have said this all happened because Shrien was "distracted" by the trial. He was the finance director. Nothing to do with care standards!

 

It wasn't so distracted when the place was being built, 'hitting on' some of the young blokes on site

[northsomersetred]

This man is legally 'Not Guilty'.

 

That is the end of the matter - and no-one from Bristol is going to over-rule the judge.

 

Come to terms with this peeps. If you are after a good read, then the law associated with 'tort' is a good read. Slander / libel e.g. saying someone is a murderer when you cannot prove that they are. 

 

This includes remarks made online e.g. OTIB, which is a public forum. If you make an accusation, under these laws, then YOU have to prove your case.

 

How anyone can make this claim from thousands of miles away, based on media crap is amazing .......

 

 

 

 

TFR

 

Well lets see what happens if Anni's family come after him in a civil court over here.

[chipdawg]

Well lets see what happens if Anni's family come after him in a civil court over here.

He'll still be innocent in the eyes of the law regardless of the outcome of any civil action

[Fordy62]

Interesting reading all of this.

My suspicion is that he'd be convicted of murderbhad it occurred here.

Our police are excellent at murder investigations in the whole. This one seems to have had enough evidence to get it home, but it was the prosecution's to lose and they did.

Jurys are strange things. Quite often you see them working outside of the beyond all reasonable doubt standards that are expected. Quite often the biggest battle is to get past the CPS and then the conviction is a formality.

I think he's a lucky boy. Innocent. But very very lucky.

[PHILINFRANCE]

Interesting reading all of this.

My suspicion is that he'd be convicted of murderbhad it occurred here.

Our police are excellent at murder investigations in the whole. This one seems to have had enough evidence to get it home, but it was the prosecution's to lose and they did.

Jurys are strange things. Quite often you see them working outside of the beyond all reasonable doubt standards that are expected. Quite often the biggest battle is to get past the CPS and then the conviction is a formality.

I think he's a lucky boy. Innocent. But very very lucky.

 

You may be right, i.e. SD may well have been guilty of murder.

 

But there was no jury in this particular case.

[northsomersetred]

You may be right, i.e. SD may well have been guilty of murder.

 

But there was no jury in this particular case.

 

I think we're doing a fine job on here

[Fordy62]

You may be right, i.e. SD may well have been guilty of murder.

But there was no jury in this particular case.

Yeh. I'm aware. Was just thinking about if it had been here.

[Monkeh]

Interesting reading all of this.

My suspicion is that he'd be convicted of murderbhad it occurred here.

Our police are excellent at murder investigations in the whole. This one seems to have had enough evidence to get it home, but it was the prosecution's to lose and they did.

Jurys are strange things. Quite often you see them working outside of the beyond all reasonable doubt standards that are expected. Quite often the biggest battle is to get past the CPS and then the conviction is a formality.

I think he's a lucky boy. Innocent. But very very lucky.

he never commited muder so wouldn't be convicted of it, he would of been charged with conspiracy to murder but with the evidance provided by the state (if the same is used in this country) then he would of also been found not guility as it was full of holes,

 

Now i'd like to think our police force would handle it better the SA force but we just don't know

[Fordy62]

he never commited muder so wouldn't be convicted of it, he would of been charged with conspiracy to murder but with the evidance provided by the state (if the same is used in this country) then he would of also been found not guility as it was full of holes,

Now i'd like to think our police force would handle it better the SA force but we just don't know

If bet my bottom dollar he'd have been charged and convicted of murder rather than conspiracy. If the murder hadn't taken place then conspiracy would have been fine, but as it did, it would have been murder.

And for the record we would have handled it better. There aren't too many unsolved murders in this country. And even less acquittals.

[Monkeh]

If bet my bottom dollar he'd have been charged and convicted of murder rather than conspiracy. If the murder hadn't taken place then conspiracy would have been fine, but as it did, it would have been murder.

And for the record we would have handled it better. There aren't too many unsolved murders in this country. And even less acquittals.

the whole point is tho' he could of only been convicted on the basis of the evidance that was put in front of the judge, that evidance was laughable and the trail was stopped correctly in my eyes,

 

Whether he had anything to do with it is a different matter but the evidance the state provided in SA was so falled full of holes and relied on proven liers, there is no jury on earth that would convict on such flimsey evidance,

 

That is fact,

 

What would happen in this country in congecture as the trial and investagation wasn't carried out here,

[PHILINFRANCE]

If bet my bottom dollar he'd have been charged and convicted of murder rather than conspiracy. If the murder hadn't taken place then conspiracy would have been fine, but as it did, it would have been murder.

And for the record we would have handled it better. There aren't too many unsolved murders in this country. And even less acquittals.

 

As you said earlier, once past the CPS the battle is almost won.

[northsomersetred]

If bet my bottom dollar he'd have been charged and convicted of murder rather than conspiracy. If the murder hadn't taken place then conspiracy would have been fine, but as it did, it would have been murder.

And for the record we would have handled it better. There aren't too many unsolved murders in this country. And even less acquittals.

 

Some of the biggest high profile mass murders committed in the past 40yrs remain unsolved.