Mad Cyril Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 So you are saying we sometimes get what we want, but it doesn't count because we have to change the owners mind or it doesnt always come about instantly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 As we are talking about the East End. I have been told by 2 people that work for the club that the new south stand will be reserved seating only. Dave Lloyd cannot confirm this at the moment so I will take it as to be true. Perhaps maybe it is because the Williams lot will be coming over for a brief period. I just wondered what your feelings are about this. My feelings are that the East End is dead, it will only live in our memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 As we are talking about the East End. I have been told by 2 people that work for the club that the new south stand will be reserved seating only. Dave Lloyd cannot confirm this at the moment so I will take it as to be true. Perhaps maybe it is because the Williams lot will be coming over for a brief period. I just wondered what your feelings are about this. My feelings are that the East End is dead, it will only live in our memories. the current block where the east enders are situated is reserve seating as I have a seat number on my ticket, once the singers decide what section generally they will be sitting I'd guess the club would take a relaxed stance on it like they do with the standing, They can't be seen to be supporting beacuse the laws govening the stadium are draconion but they do overlook it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 Would disagree on 99% of those - not even sure the club can anything about the EE, remember SL at the time WAS dead against the idea yet he listened to the fans and re-opened it, 99% of other chairmen wouldn't do that, it took a long time but he did it, our club is bloody good at listening to its fanbase, compare it to teams like blackpool and we are almost democratic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 It would be great to have a singing stand were you actually can watch the game. I'm happy to sing but first and foremost I'm there to watch the game and from behind the goal you don't have a good view/idea of what actually is happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 yet he listened to the fans and re-opened it, 99% of other chairmen wouldn't do that, it took a long time but he did it If you consider that a trial of the Eastend took place in 2003, the petition was 2006 and it was still years before it was properly opened is not a particularly good example easily affecting the FC. What happened at Bristol City where fans lobbied the club to open a stand is not unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 the current block where the east enders are situated is reserve seating as I have a seat number on my ticket, once the singers decide what section generally they will be sitting I'd guess the club would take a relaxed stance on it like they do with the standing, They can't be seen to be supporting beacuse the laws govening the stadium are draconion but they do overlook it The singing section in the Williams is unreserved like it used to be in the East End. Even though you got a number on your season card for your seat. There is no chance you would go to your actual seat and I haven't so far this season. You go to the nearest empty space available if you're lucky. This won't happen in the new stand, they said you will actually have to go to your new seat. They might try to enforce us to sit in the first season but I cannot see it working. They just want to put faces to your seat if you know what I mean. Unless Dave Lloyd says this is all untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 From petition to opening the Eastend to pay on the day took a period of five years to achieve. Revisiting the history there is of no benefit as it is hardly a glowing example of co-operation between fans and club. Supporter involvement in the design and selection of the clubs shirt is being decreased by BS - BCFC. Again that is no glowing example of co-operation between fans and club. Dave has said fans will be involved which you've evidently ignored. I think fans at some, not all, other clubs would be grateful to have an unreserved home area where standing is permitted in seated areas and tickets are issued at a lower price than like-for-like alternatives in the same stand. But apparently not here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderJar Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Judging by the appointment of various high profile press people at Bristol Sport I get the feeling that they have a pre-determined publicity campaign during which information is being drip fed and ramped up at key project milestones. I'm wondering if they feel that early release of images/ fly-throughs etc. might undermine this campaign?It is the only explanation that I can think of to justify not showing anything other than superficial images. I can understand why Dave L is then in an awkward position and having to deflect all questions.But an explanation that this is the case, or if it isn't then an honest explanation of the reasoning, might be more helpful than the "no comment" approach which just antagonises people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Dave has said fans will be involved which you've evidently ignored. I think fans at some, not all, other clubs would be grateful to have an unreserved home area where standing is permitted in seated areas and tickets are issued at a lower price than like-for-like alternatives in the same stand. But apparently not here. Couldn't agree more with you, cheap seats, allowed to stand, what more do they want? oh yes a mock up of what the stand will look like, well they won't have to wait long for the real thing, the outside structure will be complete by the end of January according to Barr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Judging by the appointment of various high profile press people at Bristol Sport I get the feeling that they have a pre-determined publicity campaign during which information is being drip fed and ramped up at key project milestones. I'm wondering if they feel that early release of images/ fly-throughs etc. might undermine this campaign?It is the only explanation that I can think of to justify not showing anything other than superficial images. I can understand why Dave L is then in an awkward position and having to deflect all questions.But an explanation that this is the case, or if it isn't then an honest explanation of the reasoning, might be more helpful than the "no comment" approach which just antagonises people? Why shouldn't the people in charge of the build control the flow of information. I believe the number of people who are so desperate to see this 'fly-through' can be counted on two hands, personally I can wait for the finished article, I reckon it will have seats in it and a fantastic view of our state of the art pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderJar Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 I agree redpaul. All I am saying is that they could just say this rather than saying nothing which is what antagonises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Why shouldn't the people in charge of the build control the flow of information. I believe the number of people who are so desperate to see this 'fly-through' can be counted on two hands, personally I can wait for the finished article, I reckon it will have seats in it and a fantastic view of our state of the art pitch. That's the thing, they can't. BS' hands are tied by Barr, they can't just magic up some images in Photoshop, it's not their project as such. The mistake they did make was promising too much; sure they would have deemed it reasonable that some graphic design would be available at this stage, naively. Hardly crime of the century though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Dave has said fans will be involved which you've evidently ignored. I think fans at some, not all, other clubs would be grateful to have an unreserved home area where standing is permitted in seated areas and tickets are issued at a lower price than like-for-like alternatives in the same stand. But apparently not here. The club liaison has stated fans will no longer have the same level of involvement in kit design. Undoubtedly fans in the E/F would be grateful, but not all, nowhere near it. If you had [?] attended the relocation meeting you would have understood what was discussed and what transpired is not the same. Fans at the meeting would have moved away to the Dolman if the club had revealed completely their intent. The meeting was misleading, it is not claimed that it was deliberate, but over half the attendees were later asked for their view and it was agreed that the meeting was confused due to lack of detail. By the time all detail became apparent it was too late to seek an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 The club liaison has stated fans will no longer have the same level of involvement in kit design. Undoubtedly fans in the E/F would be grateful, but not all, nowhere near it. If you had [?] attended the relocation meeting you would have understood what was discussed and what transpired is not the same. Fans at the meeting would have moved away to the Dolman if the club had revealed completely their intent. The meeting was misleading, it is not claimed that it was deliberate, but over half the attendees were later asked for their view and it was agreed that the meeting was confused due to lack of detail. By the time all detail became apparent it was too late to seek an alternative. "Bristol Sport will be responsible for early design work. Fans will be involved further down the line, but I'm not able to give you details of how that will work at the moment." - Fans are getting input on the kit but not designing it from scratch, which didn't happen anyway. I wasn't at that meeting, but the fact remains that BCFC have gone out of their way to accommodate Eastenders in another part of the ground, to the financial detriment of other fans. The amount of aggression towards the club in response is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 "Bristol Sport will be responsible for early design work. Fans will be involved further down the line, but I'm not able to give you details of how that will work at the moment." - Fans are getting input on the kit but not designing it from scratch, which;didn't happen anyway. I wasn't at that meeting, but the fact remains that BCFC have gone out of their way to accommodate Eastenders in another part of the ground, to the financial detriment of other fans. The amount of aggression towards the club in response is ludicrous. Involvement in kit design is decreasing. Take the issue up with the club liaison if you want to contest that. As you did not attend the meeting you will not be aware that the details provided were unclear e.g numbers and alternatives. When the unexpected transpired what had occurred fans with the Club liaison did attempt to lessen the impact with an attempted remedy. The outcome is not universally popular. There has been no aggression directed at the club, only appeals to get it right by being more open next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cyril Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Undoubtedly fans in the E/F would be grateful, but not all, nowhere near it. If you had [?] attended the relocation meeting you would have understood what was discussed and what transpired is not the same. Fans at the meeting would have moved away to the Dolman if the club had revealed completely their intent. The meeting was misleading, it is not claimed that it was deliberate, but over half the attendees were later asked for their view and it was agreed that the meeting was confused due to lack of detail. By the time all detail became apparent it was too late to seek an alternative. Like you I had to move location at the end of last season due to ground redevelopment. I too moved to the Williams. I pay almost double what you pay for your ticket. I am not complaining but I don't know why you are. Its only a change of view. Its not like we have had to move to another stadium for a season or two. We are building a new stadium to be proud of. I am very positive about what is going on and the way it is being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Like you I had to move location at the end of last season due to ground redevelopment. I too moved to the Williams. I pay almost double what you pay for your ticket. I am not complaining but I don't know why you are. Its only a change of view. Its not like we have had to move to another stadium for a season or two. We are building a new stadium to be proud of. I am very positive about what is going on and the way it is being done. It's change Cyril... some people just don't like change.......... I get it all the time in my work. Anything new comes in they want to know why we are changing it, even when you remind them of how much they moaned about the thing it's replacing they don't like it. I usually say something like "yeah, why did we invent that telephone thing? Weren't we better off with smoke signals?" etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Like you I had to move location at the end of last season due to ground redevelopment. I too moved to the Williams. I pay almost double what you pay for your ticket. I am not complaining but I don't know why you are. Its only a change of view. Its not like we have had to move to another stadium for a season or two. We are building a new stadium to be proud of. I am very positive about what is going on and the way it is being done. Many fans in the Williams E-F would have payed extra for a better experience. The opportunity due to timescale and staggered ticket sales post relocation meeting was no longer present. It is more than a change of view. It is a change of experience. For some a very poor one. A mistake being admitted on behalf of fans who took part in the relocation meeting. A mistake we do not want to make again with our friends and families. Building a stadium to be proud of is your perception. Others want to see the design, associated detail and come to their own informed choice in the future. This opportunity was promised to fans by Jon Lansdown and has never been met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Many fans in the Williams E-F would have payed extra for a better experience. The opportunity due to timescale and staggered ticket sales post relocation meeting was no longer present. It is more than a change of view. It is a change of experience. For some a very poor one. A mistake being admitted on behalf of fans who took part in the relocation meeting. A mistake we do not want to make again with our friends and families. Building a stadium to be proud of is your perception. Others want to see the design, associated detail and come to their own informed choice in the future. This opportunity was promised to fans by Jon Lansdown and has never been met. no one is forcing you to attend football at ashton gate, the amount the club has bent over backwards to accomadate the "east enders" should be commended yet you dismiss it out of hand just so you can have a pop at the club for not listening, If the provided you with all the information you would find somthing else to moan about, As Port Said said some people just don't like change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave L Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 "Others want to see the design, associated detail and come to their own informed choice in the future. This opportunity was promised to fans by Jon Lansdown and has never been met." All supporters will get the chance to see the images and the designs at the same time. All supporters will be able to make an informed choice about where they sit next season. All supporters will be given full information on facilities, prices, design and associated detail before they are asked to commit to buying a seat in any part of the ground. We hope to be able to release that information - to all supporters - as soon as possible, as soon as all the details are finalised. All supporters will then have many months to make their own decisions about which part of the ground they want to move to next season, and we will consult fully with all different stand holders to make the move as easy as possible - just as we did last year. This is going to be a complicated process involving the relocation of the entire Williams stand, and large numbers of people from the Dolman and Atyeo who want to relocate to the south stand, not to mention the temporary relocation of all of our corporate and hospitality facilities, the press and the directors. Before we relase final details, we need to be sure about what we have for sale: block and seat numbers in the south stand and new Dolman etc and its precise configuration. We're nearly there with that. Next season will be yet another transitional one involving a lot of upheaval, and it's a massive logistical exercise. I don't normally like replying to a question with another question, but why do you need to know now? Why can't you wait until everybody else is given this information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 The relocation to the Williams was a RUSHED complicated process. You could NOT consult fans fully given the timescale. The Williams E-F as stressed already is not universally popular. You yourself Dave made a statement about the area after one game that was damning. Your embarrassment was shared by others who were in a smaller way responsible for fans moving into the block. The entire thing was a mess! The above is a lesson in how not to do something. Fans were promised - "Fans would be consulted every step of the way. We will ask them what they think is required to enhance supporter experience. "The stadium would be designed with fans in mind; there would be full engagement and and consultation to ensure we represent the history and heritage of the club as fans would like". "We will be looking for your help by engaging with you directly - and involving the Fans Parliament - to ensure the history and heritage of the club is at the heart of this redevelopment. We want your help with that." It did not happen. Members of the Clubs Fans Parliament described the consultation as a box ticking exercise. Members of the Clubs Fans Parliament also stated there was no full engagement. The overwhelming majority of fans away from Otib have no idea what is going on, and the overwhelming majority of fans of fans on otib do not either, they cannot, your "consultation" keeps fans uniformed by its nature. By releasing images and detail now fans can decide if Bristol Sport and Bristol City are going to represent the history and heritage of the club as fans would like. By releasing images and detail of the South stand for all, fans may be able to make a positive contribution before it is impossible to affect nothing, because BS - BCFC will have made all the meaningful decisions for fans rather than with them. By releasing images and detail of the South stand for all you may receive a response that you have not envisaged, and will require a alternative logistical exercise. As you have asked a question - Why are BS - BCFC given Jon Lansdowns remarks refusing calls from fans and the Supporters Trust to release images of the South stand? Where is the benefit in not doing what every other club in the UK does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 I don't normally like replying to a question with another question, but why do you need to know now? Why can't you wait until everybody else is given this information? Is there a reason that the information cannot be released now? Is it because not finalised, or the club just not willing to release at this stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 I was at the relocation meeting attended by 20 people I think. I believe the club had already reached a decision in consultation with the police as to where the singers would be located, as far away from the visiting supporters as possible, to reduce the potential for crowd problems, not saying all singers are trouble makers, but there exists an element of boisterous fans who attach themselves to that group. The sweetener was that the prices would be reduced and a given number of seats would be unreserved. Seemed a fair deal in my opinion. Next season the club would still like to keep any potential trouble makers as far away from away fans as possible and to this end I would wager that a portion of the new stand will be cheaper and unreserved just as the EE was. Now I wouldn't disagree that having an element of banter between opposing fans is a good thing, unfortunately history has told us that there is always an element on both sides who seek to cause problems. I believe if the singers attempt to relocate to anywhere other than the new stand the club will actively discourage them. They will make space available for flags and banners so that those guys and girls will feel more at home, I don't think any street art will be permitted in the new seating areas but there may be an area such as a natch bar that may be given up by BS for fans decoration. I look forward to revisiting this topic when the new season starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave L Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Is there a reason that the information cannot be released now? Is it because not finalised, or the club just not willing to release at this stage? As I said above: Before we release final details, we need to be sure about what we have for sale: block and seat numbers in the south stand and new Dolman etc and its precise configuration. We're nearly there with that. Once that's done, then everyone can see what's going to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Despite the fantastic improvements to our club both on and off the pitch, it seems that some are determined to look a gift horse in the mouth. Then punch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 I was at the relocation meeting attended by 20 people I think. I believe the club had already reached a decision in consultation with the police as to where the singers would be located, as far away from the visiting supporters as possible, to reduce the potential for crowd problems, not saying all singers are trouble makers, but there exists an element of boisterous fans who attach themselves to that group. The sweetener was that the prices would be reduced and a given number of seats would be unreserved. Seemed a fair deal in my opinion. Next season the club would still like to keep any potential trouble makers as far away from away fans as possible and to this end I would wager that a portion of the new stand will be cheaper and unreserved just as the EE was. Now I wouldn't disagree that having an element of banter between opposing fans is a good thing, unfortunately history has told us that there is always an element on both sides who seek to cause problems. I believe if the singers attempt to relocate to anywhere other than the new stand the club will actively discourage them. They will make space available for flags and banners so that those guys and girls will feel more at home, I don't think any street art will be permitted in the new seating areas but there may be an area such as a natch bar that may be given up by BS for fans decoration. I look forward to revisiting this topic when the new season starts. I am in the Williams with friends and our kids. I would disagree with the price being a sweetener. The Williams is turning what should be a memorable season into something other than it should be, it is an odd feeling stand. Given our time again we would have moved to the Dolman. I also have that feel the club will actively discourage a section of support if they attempt to relocate anywhere other than this South stand. The longer heels are dragged the less time those fans will get to react could be the explanation for the inexplicable delay, delay and delays of renders of the South stand. That may be a silly conspiracy, but the secrecy around this stand is also beyond silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 As I said above: Before we release final details, we need to be sure about what we have for sale: block and seat numbers in the south stand and new Dolman etc and its precise configuration. We're nearly there with that. Once that's done, then everyone can see what's going to be there. No, I don't mean details of what is available for sale, I mean details and/or images of the new south stand. Can that not be released now because it is not finalised, or the club not willing to release at this stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 No, I don't mean details of what is available for sale, I mean details and/or images of the new south stand. Can that not be released now because it is not finalised, or the club not willing to release at this stage? What's the betting that they have lost the images on their computer system and are scramming to draw up some new ones. Seriously though I doubt there are any new images and it is basically the same design as before. Now we know what seats we are having. The excuse before to not bring the images out was all about safe standing being decided, now it is all about seat arrangement and fans coming from other parts of the stadium. All we want is to see the images and then get on with life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 No, I don't mean details of what is available for sale, I mean details and/or images of the new south stand. Can that not be released now because it is not finalised, or the club not willing to release at this stage? You are not understanding the ways of the full engagement and consultation. That was your answer even if it wasn't one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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