Sargent Pepper Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM91 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Good effort RedDave. You've clearly selected elements that can't be objectified within the stadium. Lets say you enjoyed a pint in the Dolman and they decided to stop selling alcohol because users of the Dolman might be like those trouble makers we see on our streets of a Friday night. My point is a very obvious one. If something matters to you and it is removed without any dialogue or right of reply then you've a right to feel aggrieved. You clearly feel you have the right to belittle the flags. Yes, indeed you have the right to do that. Hopefully that's never taken away from you. This is a stupid comparison, they aren't banning flags they are asking for flags not to have the word "ultras" on them. you're still allowed flags. A more reflective comparison would be if they changed the type of beer on tap. The reality of the response? Reasonable fans might not like the decision but will get on with it, unreasonable people will scream about how football has gone mad and they wish it was more like the 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 This is a stupid comparison, they aren't banning flags they are asking for flags not to have the word "ultras" on them. you're still allowed flags. A more reflective comparison would be if they changed the type of beer on tap. The reality of the response? Reasonable fans might not like the decision but will get on with it, unreasonable people will scream about how football has gone mad and they wish it was more like the 80's. Wait, aren't you employed by Bristol Sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM91 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Wait, aren't you employed by Bristol Sport? No, just a modern middle class football fan. The middle class created this sport and we're taking our game back after it was brought to its knees by "ultras" in the 1980's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 No, just a modern middle class football fan. The middle class created this sport and we're taking our game back after it was brought to its knees by "ultras" in the 1980's. Hahaha [emoji476] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Rizzle Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Whilst I understand that some are upset at having their match-experience tampered with by the club, I don't quite understand the level of upset. 1) I think it's unfair to blame Bristol Sport for this. It's a decision that probably would have been made by the club in this day and age regardless of Bristol Sport. My feeling is that BS are doing a lot of good for BCFC but have become a bit of a scapegoat for some. 2) Flags haven't been banned. The word 'Ultras' has. I get that some are upset with this as they've had it on their flags for many years BUT things can't always stay the same. The word itself may be tenious in its links to fascism however it's still there regardless of how strong or weak that link is. It may have been ok in the 70/80's but maybe not today, just like hooliganism, racism and homophobia were prevalent and even accepted parts of football culture back then. Like i said, I understand the discontent when something significant to your match day experience gets prevented but BCFC have explained they're reasons. Some will agree with it, some won't. What I don't understand is the level of negativity and upset over this. We are currently in the most positive period for BCFC since we reached the champ play-off final. Joint top of the league, Wembley final, new stadium coming, FA cup tie live on the Beeb and a manager and squad of players that we can be proud of. Not asking people to agree with everything BS and BCFC do but let's at least be a bit more positive about life as BCFC supporters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargent Pepper Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Whilst I understand that some are upset at having their match-experience tampered with by the club, I don't quite understand the level of upset. 1) I think it's unfair to blame Bristol Sport for this. It's a decision that probably would have been made by the club in this day and age regardless of Bristol Sport. My feeling is that BS are doing a lot of good for BCFC but have become a bit of a scapegoat for some. 2) Flags haven't been banned. The word 'Ultras' has. I get that some are upset with this as they've had it on their flags for many years BUT things can't always stay the same. The word itself may be tenious in its links to fascism however it's still there regardless of how strong or weak that link is. It may have been ok in the 70/80's but maybe not today, just like hooliganism, racism and homophobia were prevalent and even accepted parts of football culture back then. Like i said, I understand the discontent when something significant to your match day experience gets prevented but BCFC have explained they're reasons. Some will agree with it, some won't. What I don't understand is the level of negativity and upset over this. We are currently in the most positive period for BCFC since we reached the champ play-off final. Joint top of the league, Wembley final, new stadium coming, FA cup tie live on the Beeb and a manager and squad of players that we can be proud of. Not asking people to agree with everything BS and BCFC do but let's at least be a bit more positive about life as BCFC supporters! Don't you understand? Bristol Sport are our evil overlords who take everything & give us nothing (apart from a better chance of financial stability, a fantastic new pitch, a state of the art stadium, the old school kit many wanted & the purple & lime, all in the 6 months they've been in place). This is exactly how Nazi Germany's started! (Puts on tin hat!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I'm sorry but is this really a good idea.... trying to insight our fans to go against the club?! Bristol City have done a lot this season to try and please the fans and with us performing so well does it make sense to try and rock the boat?! I'm sorry for those that don't agree about the "Ultras" name not being acceptable but the club is trying to create an image and fighting them is only going to cause unnecessary friction between the fans and the club. It's hard enough to create a club that is self sustainable and competitive without it's own fans always needing to find a battle to have with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I'm sorry but is this really a good idea.... trying to insight our fans to go against the club?! Bristol City have done a lot this season to try and please the fans and with us performing so well does it make sense to try and rock the boat?! I'm sorry for those that don't agree about the "Ultras" name not being acceptable but the club is trying to create an image and fighting them is only going to cause unnecessary friction between the fans and the club. It's hard enough to create a club that is self sustainable and competitive without it's own fans always needing to find a battle to have with it. A sane comment at last. I suspect you're speaking for the vast majority of Bristol City fans, mate. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slacker Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I don't think anyone wants to cause friction at the moment Spike.As you say things on the pitch are going great and we should all be enjoying it.As I have posted before,the Ultra flag incident is the one to keeps being brought up, but there are other examples too.If the supporters who feel strongly about things don't highlight them now,when will be a good time to voice their concerns. It's no good waiting until it is too late.Admittedly the timing is unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old parkender Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I'm sorry but is this really a good idea.... trying to insight our fans to go against the club?! Bristol City have done a lot this season to try and please the fans and with us performing so well does it make sense to try and rock the boat?! I'm sorry for those that don't agree about the "Ultras" name not being acceptable but the club is trying to create an image and fighting them is only going to cause unnecessary friction between the fans and the club. It's hard enough to create a club that is self sustainable and competitive without it's own fans always needing to find a battle to have with it. Fair comment but nobody actively wants to battle the club, we are all after the same thing but if the club makes decisions that piss off some fans they have the right to complain about it, blindly accepting everything imposed on you is an unhealthy relationship. God knows we have hammered cardiff fans enough for it haven't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 This reminds me of those "City as ****" t shirts that appeared a few years back. Rightly banned immediately, and cue uproar. It may only be a word but if the club thinks it offensive or likely to detract from the image of BC, it goes. In that instance people stopped wearing them, had a moan, then forgot all about it. Same will happen here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Very helpful Dave. Could you list maybe 5 things that are integral to your enjoyment at AG? Then tell us which ones you wouldn't like banned without consultation? +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 This reminds me of those "City as ****" t shirts that appeared a few years back. Rightly banned immediately, and cue uproar. It may only be a word but if the club thinks it offensive or likely to detract from the image of BC, it goes. In that instance people stopped wearing them, had a moan, then forgot all about it. Same will happen here. Completely different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Just out of interest how many " ULTRAS " do we have ....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnozRobin Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Just out of interest how many " ULTRAS " do we have ....? Approximately the same number as the number of muppets we have 'following' this club.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Approximately the same number as the number of muppets we have 'following' this club.... So how many.....roughly..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinkadink Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Freedom of speech a.k.a freedom of expression does not only relate to what you can say verbally but also any medium with which you wish to use to communicate through.Freedom of speech is not the same as freedom of expression, but that's arguing semantics and not really important to the discussion at hand. You're free to express yourself, which is what's happening here and elsewhere. Being hyperbolic and claiming the ultra flag ban is infringing on your basic rights only serves to weaken your position. Hang it in your home or car or walk around the streets with it - nobody is denying your right to do that. Ashton Gate is privately owned and it's their house, it's a bit like taking said flag and hanging it on your neighbour's house or car or garden when they've expressed that they want nothing to do with it. I personally do not have an issue with the flag but I can also understand why the club would want to distance itself from it, although I hope they relent or come to a compromise with the ultra flag wavers. The latter is unlikely to happen with the hyperbolic, inflammatory rhetoric that is occurring at present which is why I believe it would be wise to change tact. *small edit To expand a little more, if theoretical neighbour had the wrong idea of ultras (probably from the same media who are now condemning City - bit of self serving) shouting about freedom of speech and getting in their face will only make them entrench. Why not gather a diverse group of ultras for a BBQ and invite the neighbour over so they can see for themselves and possibly be educated. Similarly with the club, organise an ultra meeting before a match that encorporates a broad spectrum and get the information/invite out to the club so they can see there is nothing to fear. Reinforce that positive image during the game. Open a fair dialogue. I'd say that would be a much better (and effective?) method of making your point heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtonboy Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Monday April 6th Swindon Town at home If they think they can ban the Ultra flag let's give them a day to remember. I call on all City fans if you agree with the Ultra concept bring a flag along bearing the words Bristol City Ultra's on it. Remember this is about atmosphere and freedom of speech, we will not be told what we can and can't do in our ground by Bristol Sport. By the way I am not a member of any group be it Bristol Sport or CSF orientated, I am a totally pissed off bloke that is fed up with being told what to do. I totally agree with the poster! Let ALL ultras bring their flags to the gate on the 6th April. I suggest the outcome will be an embarrassment for this "group" due to the lack of support, and we can all then get on with celebrating our teams promotion. COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touch_my_butter Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Choose a new name, an original name that isn't copying European super fans. Create something from this episode that is culturally significant to our own club and move on. How about 'The Gerts'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderEyed Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 If you don't like it, create a name heavily associated with City, without the 'links to fascism, and far-right hooliganism', put it on your flags, and let the 'superfans' be happy. There is no need to have reacted like this. Just like OddBallJim said. I feel that Cider MUST be prevalent in the design though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 It may be the start of a very slippery slope!What will be next? Spot on; there are many worried about just this, this flag was ok last season as were others with that naughty word on, now its not allowed. To those belittling it remember the little acorns and what they grow into. If BS insist on going down this road with more random rules brought in you will find the resistance will grow and intentsify, look read and act on the survey BS before its too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Spot on; there are many worried about just this, this flag was ok last season as were others with that naughty word on, now its not allowed. To those belittling it remember the little acorns and what they grow into. If BS insist on going down this road with more random rules brought in you will find the resistance will grow and intentsify, look read and act on the survey BS before its too late. Correct, I wonder how they will respond to it? At present, I can't see any other acknowledgement other than a small line at the next FAN meeting (which conveniently costs too much to stream/broadcast/display in any way that's remotely accessible to those that can't go and see what's actually said). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Rizzle Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Just out of interest, how does a flag with the word 'ultras' on it create a better atmosphere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Just out of interest, how does a flag with the word 'ultras' on it create a better atmosphere? Think people are taking it out of context, it's not the flag persay, it's what the removal of it represents; watering down and alienation of a section of our support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Rizzle Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Think people are taking it out of context, it's not the flag persay, it's what the removal of it represents; watering down and alienation of a section of our support. Watering down? Alienation? Personally think that's a pretty dramatic over reaction but if that's what people feel, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Watering down? Alienation? Personally think that's a pretty dramatic over reaction but if that's what people feel, everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's what I feel it is yes. Chipping away at what others have worked hard to build and maintain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I see people are still lost on the word ultras... The question raised is why has no one batted an eyelid or called for banning other clubs movements to generate an atmosphere? Why is it just BS and now fans who are following the bandwagon? Its a word which is open to interpretation, not offensive to me as it doesn't represent what others are connecting it to in this country. Not Europe, England. Some perspective is needed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slacker Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Why has it suddenly become a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Why has it suddenly become a problem? I guess it because BS are just generalising and connecting the word to extreme groups in Europe without researching what perfectly innocent fan movements are happening here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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