Really What Is The Problem Here?re

[JJH]

You have to attempt to understand cultural context.

In England pushing the ball through someones legs and shouting "megs" is considered disrespectful and once would have invited challenges in a game that would open knees up.

What is acceptable in futsal or panna can be see as humiliation and taking the piss 11 v 11. That rainbow flick and dive to Bilbao occupies the former.

Disagree.

A nut-meg isn't perceived as disrespectful, you just get made to look silly if you're unfortunate enough to have it done to yourself.

Also - I find it hard to believe some are agreeing this act is disrespectful, when players in that league frequently dive, and con referee's into getting decisions favourable to your side.

[Cowshed]

Disagree.

A nut-meg isn't perceived as disrespectful, you just get made to look silly if you're unfortunate enough to have it done to yourself.

Also - I find it hard to believe some are agreeing this act is disrespectful, when players in that league frequently dive, and con referee's into getting decisions favourable to your side.

Rolling the ball between a players legs and unnecessarily stating "megs" is a form of disrespect. It may be ok for kids but would be inadvisable for any adult player who did not want to make himself a target. The same could apply to street football moves and those seen on panna courts. Those skills do not have much use 11 v 11 when other skills are more effective and carry less risk.

Players dive everywhere. British pundits see it as a necessity now. In some Countries drawing the contact and then diving is seen as an art form, while too many British players tendency to lamp it into the mix would be received with derision.

It is all about perception.

[JJH]

Rolling the ball between a players legs and unnecessarily stating "megs" is a form of disrespect. It may be ok for kids but would be inadvisable for any adult player who did not want to make himself a target. The same could apply to street football moves and those seen on panna courts. Those skills do not have much use 11 v 11 when other skills are more effective and carry less risk.

Players dive everywhere. British pundits see it as a necessity now. In some Countries drawing the conact and then diving is seen as an art form, while too many British players tendency to lamp it into the mix wouold be received with derision.

It is all about perception.

Oh yeah - I'm not stating that if you nut-meg someone and then run past and say 'megs' that isn't disrespectful, because it is, but if you watch many greats of the game, you'll often find the second there's a gap inbetween your legs they'll be trying to go through.

 

I once heard an interview on 606 from Gerrard on Louis Suarez, and he said in training that everytime there was a chance to go through your legs Luis Suarez would be straight onto it, and stated it was a great skill to possess.

[Cowshed]

Oh yeah - I'm not stating that if you nut-meg someone and then run past and say 'megs' that isn't disrespectful, because it is, but if you watch many greats of the game, you'll often find the second there's a gap inbetween your legs they'll be trying to go through.

I once heard an interview on 606 from Gerrard on Louis Suarez, and he said in training that everytime there was a chance to go through your legs Luis Suarez would be straight onto it, and stated it was a great skill to possess.

Oh yeah - I'm not stating that if you nut-meg someone and then run past and say 'megs' that isn't disrespectful, because it is ... Which highlights how easily a perception changes.

I coach kids. I frequently do similar, but I generally do this to highlight that individuals have got flat and are not on their toes. If I constantly did that to an adult, the same adult, I would be making a statement - "I think you are shit at defending".

[Spike]

Sorry but if anyone gets that upset over a rainbow flick or the old "megs/megged" thing they need to man up. football is supposed to be a skill game, why would anyone discourage using skillful moves on the off chance it might upset someone, oh boo hoo.

[BS2 Red]

Pathetic reactions from Athletico.  

[Sixtyseconds]

You're telling me that if that was done to you in a game at whatever standard you have played... You wouldn't have kicked him into tomorrow either subtly or openly..

Come on any defender worth their salt would have.....

Be gone with subtlety.

I no longer have my fighting licence but the principle questions to ask oneself here are.

Now?

Later?

Do I stand him up or take him down to throttle him?

[Sixtyseconds]

Only fault with the defending here is the players should have stayed on their feet to kick him x 10.

[Stephen Lewis]

What we seem to have here is a case of I will cripple you if your a more skillful player than me syndrome.

What is this show some respect  bullsh1te .

[BigTone]

What we seem to have here is a case of I will cripple you if your a more skillful player than me syndrome.

What is this show some respect  bullsh1te .

 

Off beam I know but your avatar brings back many memories. I used to die laughing at Plucka on Hey Hey

[Super]

was it Kanchelskis at Rangers stood on the ball and did a salute? that was good.

[Monkeh]

was it Kanchelskis at Rangers stood on the ball and did a salute? that was good.

don't think it was a salute he did it looking for some one to cross to then hit that pinpoint cross

[Sixtyseconds]

What we seem to have here is a case of I will cripple you if your a more skillful player than me

What is this show some respect  bullsh1te .

Or show respect.

Finish your opponent when you can.

Dont torment him.

Like in the dojo.

Wax on.

Wax off.

[Cowshed]

What we seem to have here is a case of I will cripple you if your a more skillful player than me syndrome.

What is this show some respect bullsh1te .

Maybe it is too deep. I prefer a Jay Emmanuel Thomas to a Jon Stead. Both are talented in their ways and people have very little that is negative to say about either.

Neymar is wonderfully skilled individual. Google Neymar hocuspocus Santos and study what he does after he performs the skill. There are many examples like that on the internet. At times his actions are questionable [cheating] and he is guilty of seeking to humiliate opponents.

[Super]

lets be honest we have all played sunday football where the flash fancy ones get booted up in the air!!

[Monkeh]

lets be honest we have all played sunday football where the flash fancy ones get booted up in the air!!

always worth a yellow card to give that player a kick

[Nogbad the Bad]

What we seem to have here is a case of I will cripple you if your a more skillful player than me syndrome.

What is this show some respect  bullsh1te .

 

Exactly. Sod this disrespect crap.

 

Nutmegging is a skill and not 'disrespectful' in any way. Shouting 'megs' when you do it is obviously childish and should be reserved for the Primary School playground, but it surely must be very doubtful it occurs much in the adult professional game anyway.

 

What is this nonsense about having to 'show respect' to your opponents? If you can gain advantage and at the same embarrass them by your superior technique so much the better.

 

That doesn't give the stymied opponent the right to get the hump and flout the rules.

 

It's a game of skill, if you've got it, flaunt it, that's what the fans pay to see, and if the lesser cloggers can't take it and resort to fouling because of their 'humiliation' the refs. job is clearly to swiftly enforce the rules and send the whining red faced buggers off.

[Sixtyseconds]

A joy to watch!

[Guest]

Exactly. Sod this disrespect crap.

 

Nutmegging is a skill and not 'disrespectful' in any way. Shouting 'megs' when you do it is obviously childish and should be reserved for the Primary School playground, but it surely must be very doubtful it occurs much in the adult professional game anyway.

 

What is this nonsense about having to 'show respect' to your opponents? If you can gain advantage and at the same embarrass them by your superior technique so much the better.

 

That doesn't give the stymied opponent the right to get the hump and flout the rules.

 

It's a game of skill, if you've got it, flaunt it, that's what the fans pay to see, and if the lesser cloggers can't take it and resort to fouling because of their 'humiliation' the refs. job is clearly to swiftly enforce the rules and send the whining red faced buggers off.

 

I agree with all of what you said - to my mind I just do not see where the disrespect is. I also don't follow where the line is - when Barca go 4,5,6 goals up in a game as they invariably do in that snooze league, is Messi not showing the goalkeeper disrespect in some of those finishes - just lifting it over the keeper tantilisingly as he does. What about a chipped penalty? What scoring from the half way line, or Ronaldo's attempts from 35+yards with a free kick.

 

However, whilst I do not understand why it is disrespectful or what the line is if it is widespread Spanish custom to curb your enthusiasm from such a strong position then he simply should not have done it. I think its very hypocritical, but if that is custom c'est la vie.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Maybe it is too deep. I prefer a Jay Emmanuel Thomas to a Jon Stead. Both are talented in their ways and people have very little that is negative to say about either.

Neymar is wonderfully skilled individual. Google Neymar hocuspocus Santos and study what he does after he performs the skill. There are many examples like that on the internet. At times his actions are questionable [cheating] and he is guilty of seeking to humiliate opponents.

 

Neymar is a cheat absolutely no doubt about that and cheating should be stopped it's ruining the game.

 

Humiliate opponents, where do you draw the line:-

 

Not smashing a shit delivery in cricket out of the stadium?.

 

Not attempting an audacious shot in snooker, tennis, basketball, fiddly winks, bowls and any other sport?.

 

All of the above humiliate the opponent, because the opponent is not good enough to emulate that skill, well tough shit.

[Cowshed]

Neymar is a cheat absolutely no doubt about that and cheating should be stopped it's ruining the game.

Humiliate opponents, where do you draw the line:-

Not smashing a shit delivery in cricket out of the stadium?.

Not attempting an audacious shot in snooker, tennis, basketball, fiddly winks, bowls and any other sport?.

All of the above humiliate the opponent, because the opponent is not good enough to emulate that skill, well tough shit.

There is a sport, a variant of football where humiliating to a degree is the point. It is called Panna. There are skills witnessed in a Panna court that have little use 11 v 11 it is about being flash and expressive v playing in team, although 2 v 2 is played.

What Neymar does at times isn't about gaining advantage for his team it is about ego. That rainbow flick is about taking the piss, but he could have played it simple, quicker and faster and the outcome would more likely been a goal v pissing the opponents off.

Years back Nanni showboated with a seal dribble and Alex Ferguson was critical. Nanni's dribble was pointless.

It is a tenuous line. there are cultural variables, but It is easy to see why Athletico took exception.

[JJH]

Get over it.

Some are more skilled than others, it's a gifted talent.

[Sixtyseconds]

Its a gifted talent.

Skill.

Gets felled by an invisible rodent.

[22A]

Perhaps to avoid embarrassing opponents, City should only have scored one v Swindon and stopped attacking at 3-2 v Walsall?

[Cowshed]

However, whilst I do not understand why it is disrespectful or what the line is if it is widespread Spanish custom to curb your enthusiasm from such a strong position then he simply should not have done it. I think its very hypocritical, but if that is custom c'est la vie.

Neymars coach and teammates have hardly backed him.

A criticism of Neymar has been that he hangs on to the ball too long instead rotating the ball quickly which is the Barcelona way. If he cuts out the unnecessary and ineffective showboating they could become even better as a team.

Get over it.

Some are more skilled than others, it's a gifted talent.

Nothing to get over. It is an interesting topic.

It is not a particularly hard skill to perform without an opponent. Seven, eight, nine year olds can perform a version of the rainbow flick. However its use is limited, it is harder to perform at speed and very often results in loss of possession.

[Slacker]

Perhaps to avoid embarrassing opponents, City should only have scored one v Swindon and stopped attacking at 3-2 v Walsall?

You could have a point 22.Think how much more enjoyable that long trip to Bradford would have been if we only scored the one goal we needed for promotion!

[Guest]

Neymars coach and teammates have hardly backed him.

A criticism of Neymar has been that he hangs on to the ball too long instead rotating the ball quickly which is the Barcelona way. If he cuts out the unnecessary and ineffective showboating they could become even better as a team.

 

 

I acknowledge it seems widespread Spanish custom that this sort of thing is derided. If Neymar didn't want to court controversy then he definitely should not have done it.

 

However there are many foreign customs I can't understand and many British customs foreigners cannot understand. I cannot understand the issue here so I cannot criticise. I would prefer to see 90 minutes of intensity and if skill beats the man and I don't care what the scoreline, crack on.

 

To my mind it is not disrespectful to an opponent but as you say showboating; I'm not saying they are mutually exclusive but I would suggest Neymar's intention or thought process is far more likely to have been 'I'm going to get the fans on their feet' as opposed to 'I'm going to make this guy look a proper helmet'.

 

I await with keen interest the Spanish reaction to the next time one of their players chips in a penalty.

[Cowshed]

I acknowledge it seems widespread Spanish custom that this sort of thing is derided. If Neymar didn't want to court controversy then he definitely should not have done it.

However there are many foreign customs I can't understand and many British customs foreigners cannot understand. I cannot understand the issue here so I cannot criticise. I would prefer to see 90 minutes of intensity and if skill beats the man and I don't care what the scoreline, crack on.

To my mind it is not disrespectful to an opponent but as you say showboating; I'm not saying they are mutually exclusive but I would suggest Neymar's intention or thought process is far more likely to have been 'I'm going to get the fans on their feet' as opposed to 'I'm going to make this guy look a proper helmet'.

I await with keen interest the Spanish reaction to the next time one of their players chips in a penalty.

A chipped penalty is called a Panenka and its intent is to score not humiliate. Neymar once tried it and the keeper stood his ground and caught the ball. The majority of keepers do dive and the technique has a high % of success.

Skill of course is not derided in Spain. Technical ability is a fundamental of Spanish football, while in England it can be secondary to "putting in a shift". I would disagree with your appraisal. That skill has such a unreliable low % rate of success that it can/could be viewed as disrespectful to his opponents and his team e.g. Pique might have been muttering "keep that for the Nike adverts and give it to Alba instead of losing it you ****!"

Players are not pious, you are getting smashed then the famous flash kid starts on his circus tricks, of course many would not like it.

[Guest]

A chipped penalty is called a Panenka and its intent is to score not humiliate. Neymar once tried it and the keeper stood his ground and caught the ball. The majority of keepers do dive and the technique has a high % of success.

 

And to loop a defender is called a rainbow flick and I believe in that moment its intent is to highlight skill and beat a man, not necessarily humiliate.

 

There are other ways to beat a man just as there are other ways to take a penalty. If footballers always behaved in the same way a defender's life would be made much easier.

Skill of course is not derided in Spain. Technical ability is a fundamental of Spanish football, while in England it can be secondary to "putting in a shift". I would disagree with your appraisal. That skill has such a unreliable low % rate of success that it can/could be viewed as disrespectful to his opponents and his team e.g. Pique might have been muttering "keep that for the Nike adverts and give it to Alba instead of losing it you ****!"

 

I've not seen any statistics or counts on how often it is successfully executed v unsuccessfully. Apart from Neymar I don't think I could possibly tell you the last time I witnessed it even attempted. Whatever the sample of attempts you rely upon, I bet it's so small that it's insignificant

 

I can see the point about disrespect to teammates. I don't think it did in that instance but I agree there is a danger. If, say, it was the 87th minute and 1-1 and he was doing that then I would probably agree wholeheartedly.

 

I suppose what I really struggle with is how does the rainbow flick portray the defender in a bad light. It's a bit like a Cruyff turn, it's designed to imbalance the defender and take him out of the equation. It shows no lack of skill of the defender to be beaten by it and the only question is whether the attacker can get enough height and distance to get around the man. Why isn't it more disrespectful to try to highlight a weakness - kicking the ball 20 yards and destroying him in a leg race like Bale does every time? Then you are trying to expose a weakness. With a rainbow flick you are not exposing a weakness.

 

Even if its so unreliably low in success again so what? Plenty of things have low conversion rates in football but are attempted: If Fontaine ever scored GJ said he'd bare his backside, didn't stop Fontaine going/being sent up at every single corner leaving a non-CB covering did it? What do you reckon he scored after, 100+ corners?

Players are not pious, you are getting smashed then the famous flash kid starts on his circus tricks, of course many would not like it.

 

Of course the defender will not like it and neither should they but I don't like the petulent reaction. By all means respond with a fair but robust challenge. Some of the most exciting football is watching a battle of wits between a robust defender and a fleet footed attacker - and the excitement is in the skill and in the challenges for me.

 

I get it's not the done thing and for that reason the lad may have mad a mistake (cultural norms and customs should not be beyond challenge). But I don't follow that it's attempt necessarily demonstrates a lack of respect. There is a time and a place for practicing skills and taking a risker approach in possession and I would argue 3-1 up with a few minutes left is the time to be more expansive. I also think you must bear in mind the occassion and that Neymar is not Spanish but grew up probably on the beaches where this sort of thing is encouraged. A quiet word maybe, to accuse the lad of deliberate disrespect is taking a hammer to a nut.

[Sixtyseconds]

Apart from Neymar I don't think I could possibly tell you the last time I witnessed it even attempted.

Ardiles did it in escape to Victory.