Bristol Sport - why the criticism?

[Robbored]

My understanding is that Bristol Sport essentially provide financial support for all the different sports under their umbrella. Many Gasheads are pissed right off that they aren't under said umbrella.

What's the problem with having a body that overseas so many sports in the same city? 

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

Many Gasheads are pissed right off that they aren't under said umbrella.

They might be jealous of Lansdowns gold but I doubt any of them actually want to be under the 'umbrella'.

It would be the same for us if the roles were reversed.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

There are obviously so many benefits to BS but there is something about it that makes me uneasy. Maybe because it is a relatively new concept in this county. I don't know. 

[Robin1988]

I think it's a mixture of things. A fear of the unknown, a general concern that the Bristol City name will be diluted and then some vociferous shouting from people who perpetually moan about everything. Not helped by the odd cock-up regarding Forza flags etc. but generally it's shown itself to be a positive force so far IMO.

[BigTone]

My understanding is that Bristol Sport essentially provide financial support for all the different sports under their umbrella. Many Gasheads are pissed right off that they aren't under said umbrella.

What's the problem with having a body that overseas so many sports in the same city? 

Beats the crap out of me

[Robbored]

I think it's a mixture of things. A fear of the unknown, a general concern that the Bristol City name will be diluted and then some vociferous shouting from people who perpetually moan about everything.

SL got the idea from the way sport is run in that wonderful city Barcelona and what's the first thing that comes to mind when the words Barcelona and sport are mentioned? 

[Calculus]

I think people worry about a loss of tradition and identity. To all intents and purposes Ashton Gate is no longer owned by the football club - it would be easy to see Ashton Gate Ltd brought under BS instead of the football club.Those that worry about these things fear City becoming the football division of Bristol Sport and branded accordingly. It's a new concept in the UK but not at all unusual elsewhere so will take some getting used to. Personally I don't have a problem with it, but then watching City is one of a lot of things I do - I don't feel defined by it. Some do though and their commitment to City and their idea of City will mean that they struggle to accept much change. If the club is sensible it should be aware of people's sensibilities and try to meet them half way.

[42nite]

Topless voleyball on Barcelonas beach?

[ashton_fan]

It's a way of getting more revenue into the Club and a good mechanism for dealing with FFP, eg makes a lot of sense to use the new stadium for another sport as well, no point in it standing empty for two weeks.

[Guest]

My understanding is that Bristol Sport essentially provide financial support for all the different sports under their umbrella. Many Gasheads are pissed right off that they aren't under said umbrella.

What's the problem with having a body that overseas so many sports in the same city? 

To answer your question none as I see it at the moment.

For near enough any other club I'd have serious reservations though - what powers have been ceded to Bristol Sport, what if Bristol Sport is presented an opportunity which is beneficial to its other interests (say Rugby) but not necessarily our own: what should it do in those circumstances, what happens in cases of disputes say between BCFC ops staff and Bristol Sport ops... etc etc.

However (like Chelsea) whatever structure you put in place here there's no mistake it's one man calling the show so I don't think Bristol Sport as an entity in the chain of command adds or takes away anything from our stability. I just hope that post-Lansdown for the club's continuity it is quite easy to unwind. Given post-Lansdown looks reasonably to be post Steve and then post Jon, probably not something its worth us being duly concerned about - and far less Bristol Rovers.

[Robin1988]

SL got the idea from the way sport is run in that wonderful city Barcelona and what's the first thing that comes to mind when the words Barcelona and sport are mentioned? 

Of course. But Bristol City's 'brand' could be eroded far more easily than a club with such an illustrious history, especially when we're already fighting a battle with Premier League teams in our own city. Not that I agree it will, you can see where people are coming from though.

[CliftonCliff]

I think people worry about a loss of tradition and identity. To all intents and purposes Ashton Gate is no longer owned by the football club - it would be easy to see Ashton Gate Ltd brought under the BS logo. Those that worry about these things fear City becoming the football division of Bristol Sport and branded accordingly. It's a new concept in the UK but not at all unusual elsewhere so will take some getting used to. Personally I don't have a problem with it, but then watching City is one of a lot of things I do - I don't feel defined by it. Some do though and their commitment to City and their idea of City will mean that they struggle to accept much change. It the club is sensible it should be aware of people's sensibilities and try to meet them half way.

Excellent post: sums up the main issues very clearly and succinctly.

[Spoons]

My understanding is that Bristol Sport essentially provide financial support for all the different sports under their umbrella. Many Gasheads are pissed right off that they aren't under said umbrella.

What's the problem with having a body that overseas so many sports in the same city? 

I think unfortunately their is probably more criticism from our own fans than rovers fans. People are to quick and forgetful to bash Bristol sport at the first available opportunity. It makes perfect sense to put all those sports under control of 1 company, we as fans are/will see benefits and should really appreciate how lucky we are.

[JamesBCFC]

It is also a very common structure in Turkey. Galatasary, Beşiktaş and Fenenerbahçe are all late clubs who have a huge number of sports teams but are most known for football, in fact, most clubs in the Turkish Super Lig run a model where they are more than just a football team. However most of these have basketball as the most known second sport, yet basketball is not that popular over here (but it is in many of europes major countries). In Turkey there are Basketball arenas with a similar capacity to Ashton Gate (before redevelopment) which are sold out most games.

So I think part of the reason is that it is a new territory over here to see more sports rolled into one, but change doesn't mean it is bad (or good, time will tell on that matter).

[WTMS]

Regarding Bristol Sports structure is is nothing like those being mentioned in this thread. It is autocratic v democratic and fans of the FC are not its members, or shareholders. By being called Bristol Sport v Bristol City Sports its very nature dilutes the identity of the FC.

Bristol Sport at this point is man oddity. A unclear oddity that has yet to define itself. Most fans do not understand it, including those who have met its head Andrew Billingham.

What Bristol Sport would gain from is creating a narrative with fans instead of blundering about in areas where being a suit v fan will only cause umbrage. Bristol Sport represents an opportunity to a degree to be bold and audacious. Bristol Sport can with fans define what the identity of Bristol City is.

It is unclear why for instance Bristol Sport have to be so evident on what was Club merchandise, even FC stickers now carry the BS brand ... There are easy marginal gains BS can make with fans there.

At present bubbling behind the scenes is an issue that will dwarf Ultra/Loyal/Bubble etc if handled poorly and without putting fans to the fore of decision making - the location of the away fans and home fans in the Atyeo next season, and possibly this!

[Robin1988]

Regarding Bristol Sports structure is is nothing like those being mentioned in this thread. It is autocratic v democratic and fans of the FC are not its members, or shareholders. By being called Bristol Sport v Bristol City Sports its very nature dilutes the identity of the FC.

Bristol Sport at this point is man oddity. A unclear oddity that has yet to define itself. Most fans do not understand it, including those who have met its head Andrew Billingham.

What Bristol Sport would gain from is creating a narrative with fans instead of blundering about in areas where being a suit v fan will only cause umbrage. Bristol Sport represents an opportunity to a degree to be bold and audacious. Bristol Sport can with fans define what the identity of Bristol City is.

It is unclear why for instance Bristol Sport have to be so evident on what was Club merchandise, even FC stickers now carry the BS brand ... There are easy marginal gains BS can make with fans there.

At present bubbling behind the scenes is an issue that will dwarf Ultra/Loyal/Bubble etc if handled poorly and without putting fans to the fore of decision making - the location of the away fans and home fans in the Atyeo next season, and possibly this!

Barcelona's democracy only goes so far, it's a vote between any candidate who can raise the €77m required to stand. So largely 'suits', if you will.

Also, the only person to bring fan ownership into it is yourself. A cynic might say in order to take a bash at said 'suits', not me though.

The similarity is drawn from Barcelona referring to a group of clubs. Which is exactly what Bristol Sport is.

[Linkedarm wall]

My understanding is that Bristol Sport essentially provide financial support for all the different sports under their umbrella. Many Gasheads are pissed right off that they aren't under said umbrella.

What's the problem with having a body that overseas so many sports in the same city? 

I guess it depends how you think. If you think primarily with 'feelings' then it may bother you more than most. I popped down the Gate last week it certainly has a different 'feel' with Bristol Sport logos etc, have to say it didn't bother me at the start, but as things change more and more I'm not sure so sure.Its certainly not the club I've followed for 40 years. If the objective is plastic premiership, then we are heading in the right direction. If it's good old fashioned love the badge, terraces stuff - not the club for you.

[WTMS]

Robin 1988.

Also, the only person to bring fan ownership into it is yourself. A cynic might say in order to take a bash at said 'suits', not me though ... It is an enormous fundamental difference which cannot be disregarded so flippantly.

Other models are also mentioned in this thread. Bristol Sport again also differs entirely due to its governance / level of influence.

Its is also entirely different to quoted widely known institutions in that it is a separate brand  and the clubs under its control / influence do not share the same name and identity.

Linkedarm wall makes a good point about plastic premiership ..It does not have to be that way.

[Barrs Court Red]

Well they've managed to lose over a thousand rugby fans in 12 months with their naive pricing structure.

 

Time will tell if mistakes are learned from, and I'm still cautiously optimistic Bristol Sport will be a good thing for both clubs.

[Robbored]

Well they've managed to lose over a thousand rugby fans in 12 months with their naive pricing structure.

 

Have they?

I know a couple of die-hard rugby fans who think that Bristol Sport is doing a decent job.

[Robin1988]

Robin 1988.

Also, the only person to bring fan ownership into it is yourself. A cynic might say in order to take a bash at said 'suits', not me though ... It is an enormous fundamental difference which cannot be disregarded so flippantly.

Other models are also mentioned in this thread. Bristol Sport again also differs entirely due to its governance / level of influence.

Its is also entirely different to quoted widely known institutions in that it is a separate brand  and the clubs under its control / influence do not share the same name and identity.

Linkedarm wall makes a good point about plastic premiership ..It does not have to be that way.

It doesn't need disregarding, because it wasn't even brought up. Presumably the reason the clubs don't share the same identity is because their heritage (even short heritage in the case of Flyers) has been regarded and BS becomes the intermediary instead.

Thinking pragmatically, I think everyone at BS is acutely aware of the desire to keep Bristol City as a strong name at Ashton Gate and beyond and they would be stupid to act otherwise. And at the end of the day the governance of Bristol City has barely changed. We have our own CEO and SL is still the owner.

[CyderInACan]

Well they've managed to lose over a thousand rugby fans in 12 months with their naive pricing structure.

 

Time will tell if mistakes are learned from, and I'm still cautiously optimistic Bristol Sport will be a good thing for both clubs.

£32 to watch second-tier rugby is incredibly expensive so I'm not surprised if some people are priced out of watching. 

[Guest]

Two photos, what is the name of the team(s) represented?

[ten minutes of rough]

There are obviously so many benefits to BS but there is something about it that makes me uneasy. Maybe because it is a relatively new concept in this county. I don't know. 

Feel the same, I think we have lost a bit of our identity, but at least SL is a true City supporter so that's a real positive. It's possibly the way ahead, the new model, certainly Bristol needs a new injection of money and initiative, the Council don't seem to be interested in promoting anything except green issues and giving up a room for a Syrian.  

[Robbored]

£32 to watch second-tier rugby is incredibly expensive so I'm not surprised if some people are priced out of watching. 

Is it that expensive? 

How much did Sheffield Wednesday want for the City league match - £39 if I remember rightly.

I know that the Englands World Cup games are over a hundred quid. Not second tier rugby I know but still horrendously over priced.

[TheCulturalBomb]

It's a very clever way to make your finances more secure and have them under one pot, while also creating a brand, it also advances the Bristol name without damaging Bristol City, which I believe it hasn't. 

[Milo]

Humans don’t like change. For example Ashton Vale residents feared change but they had a democratic right to influence the proposed change. When change is enforced on a community we should all understand that some members of that community will be suspicious and concerned, particularly when that community has no democratic right to question, challenge or influence the change.

I agree with WTMS-BCFC that the key difference between Barcelona, Galatasaray and other sporting clubs is that other sporting clubs are the community. Decision makers are elected by members and Barcelona’s fee paying membership (177 euros this year) represents 10% of Barcelona’s population. Bristol Sport or its owner Pula, as a privately owned business, can’t be seen as a direct comparison with Barcelona or Galatasaray in any meaningful way other than it has a collection of sports teams under its banner unless it converts to a membership owned sports club.

I think it’s incorrect to say that this is a model that is used elsewhere in the world. British football clubs are unusual in that due to the law of the land our predecessors decided that clubs needed to limit the liability of their decision makers when it came to employing staff. That aspect of our law means that our football clubs, as limited companies, can be owned privately even though we still see them as community assets.

Just to be clear, however, although I’m saying that we should all understand why some fans are suspicious that’s not the same as saying that those fans are right to be suspicious. What I mean by that is that provided you have confidence in Steve Lansdown the creation of Bristol Sport should be seen as simply the marketing company for the sports clubs that Steve Lansdown owns. Evidence to date is that Steve Lansdown’s intentions are entirely honourable and his investment in the Club has not only been immense but also unlike the investment anyone else would have made.

I think that as it is the marketing arm it could do much better at influencing its perception of what it is and what it isn’t. This thread is a good example of the lack of understanding that City fans have. Imagine the misunderstanding that must exist in the minds of those less involved. All the sports clubs are not under the control of Bristol Sport and neither does Bristol Sport provide financial support for all the different sports teams.

It is also not logical to fear Ashton Gate Ltd being brought under Bristol Sport. While Steve Lansdown can sell shares in any of the individual companies that fall under the actual umbrella company (Pula), the value of the shares is fairly limited assuming that Pula decides to retain the majority ownership. As the ground and sports teams are linked and rely on each other it wouldn’t be sensible to lose the majority stake in any individual part (see Coventry City for an example of what can happen if you do). And whether Bristol Sport exists or it doesn’t, the decision maker at Pula can sell off any part of its businesses whenever it wants. In other words the link between ground and football club is simply a paper exercise and with Pula owning over 90% of the whole thing, Pula can do what it likes regardless of its current internal structure.

Bristol Sport is simply the marketing arm for Pula. What’s interesting and unique about it is that it believes that to maximise revenues for its teams that there is a benefit in the marketing arm having its own brand. It believes that it will have more success selling Bristol Sport than it will selling Bristol City or Bristol Rugby. The view is that Bristol City is a difficult brand to sell to commercial directors, firstly because it’s a football club (a tarnished sport where gambling companies, pay day lenders and alcohol companies currently pay the fattest cheques) and secondly because for local business, financially backing City could have a negative impact with the handful of customers who support the blue few. So the Bristol Sport brand helps to overcome both objections, but this investment in the Bristol Sport brand has, by default, to be at the expense of the Bristol City brand. That fact ought to sit uncomfortably with most of us, even if we can subsequently take the pragmatic view that it’s an acceptable price to pay if it is ultimately successfully in generating more revenue.   

[Guest]

Is it that expensive? 

How much did Sheffield Wednesday want for the City league match - £39 if I remember rightly.

I know that the Englands World Cup games are over a hundred quid. Not second tier rugby I know but still horrendously over priced.

It is incredibly expensive. There might be parallels as both are 'second tier', however that's just a description. The second tier of rugby is not of a quality standard by any means. 

It is even more so expensive when you consider the league is really just a qualifier for the playoffs. That it should not require too much or any swear for Bristol to finish in the top four says a lot too about value for money. 

[Ian M]

SL got the idea from the way sport is run in that wonderful city Barcelona and what's the first thing that comes to mind when the words Barcelona and sport are mentioned? 

Diving/cheating bankers?

[Lack of Action Man]

They're a sporting commercial management/ marketing company, nothing more nothing less. I'm fine with them dealing with all the off the field side of things if it means that the football club is able to balance it's books more effectively, focus on the on the field matters and also become more well integrated into the local community and market.