The Boxing Thread

[Phileas Fogg]

30 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Yep, everyone has their good and bad days. It is interesting that you don't afford Joshua the same relief that you give Fury, given he has:

1) Been banned for doping;

2) Homophobic comments;

3) Anti-semitic comments; and

4) Sexist comments.

Difficult to see how, given the above, Fury can be considered a "good guy".

I admit I'm not exactly impartial on this, I don't think I've ever pretended to be.

The doping stuff - I'm of the opinion they're all doping although that can't be proven. For example I don't think Fury lost all that weight (10st) in 6 months through changing his diet and moving around more alone. Joshua apparently has a TUE for artificial testosterone which is obviously absurd.

The other things, Fury has made silly comments - I don't think I've ever pretended he hasn't. The difference is that Fury has never, until recently, been a polished media-friendly package. It's only really since his comeback (and specifically after Wilder 2) that he's become more of a media personality and toned down the other stuff. I also think it's worth noting that Fury said most of those silly comments when he was a younger man and going through serious mental health issues but obviously it's not an excuse. 

Since 2012, Joshua has been presented as some sort of poster boy for the sport. He's a marketing phenomenon in many ways - he looks the part, is exciting to watch in fights.. it was all going so well until Ruiz 1. Rightly or wrongly, it makes him be held to a higher standard in the public eye when that's been your carefully crafted PR image for your entire career.

As for what I think of them as people, lots of that is just subjective and my opinion. My gut feeling is that, despite his flaws, Fury is a good man at his core. I don't think Joshua is. That's just my gut feeling on the two based on watching both for many years. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Phileas Fogg

[Phileas Fogg]

18 minutes ago, Stortz said:

I agree that there's an awful lot of history being rewritten generally, but @Phileas Fogg had been consistent in his dislike of Joshua for many years tbf!

I think people are revelling in AJ's fall from grace especially because of the image Eddie and Matchroom worked so hard to cultivate- it always seemed a little too media polished. Fury wasn't held to anything like this account for the far worse behaviour you outline above, I guess because people expected it from him (other than the doping).

An awful lot of casual Joshua fanboys jumped ship quickly after the Ruiz defeat and started loudly backing Fury instead like it's supporting rival football teams, and these are the people giving Joshua most of the shit now- deserved to an extent though you could argue it is.

Exactly. My respective like and dislike of the two is almost a bit of an anti-establishment thing.

Joshua was, in my mind, the establishment's boxer. He had the Sky Sports money behind him, poster boy for big brands and the ridiculous Matchroom hype train which included Johnny Nelson and Tony Bellew.

Fury was anti-establishment. He was colourful, interesting and flawed. 

I always thought Fury was the far more natural talent of the two so it was an easy choice as to who I 'picked'.

It would be easy if you could support both, but I think the nature of boxing as a sport (where people tend to have a bit of investment in the personalities of fighters) makes that tricky.

That being said, I think I like Usyk and Fury equally so I have no idea who I'd "support" if they fought. I just hope the fight gets made and the best man wins on the night. 

[Rob k]

AJ was winning on 2 judges scorecards after the 9th on Saturday 

[mozo]

23 hours ago, Rob k said:

AJ was winning on 2 judges scorecards after the 9th on Saturday 

Yeah he just gassed after going for it in the 9th and I guess that's the risk for muscular fighters; if you don't get the KO when the opportunity arises, endurance can come back and bite you.

Edited August 26, 2022 by mozo

[Rob k]

On 24/08/2022 at 11:50, Phileas Fogg said:

Exactly. My respective like and dislike of the two is almost a bit of an anti-establishment thing.

Joshua was, in my mind, the establishment's boxer. He had the Sky Sports money behind him, poster boy for big brands and the ridiculous Matchroom hype train which included Johnny Nelson and Tony Bellew.

Fury was anti-establishment. He was colourful, interesting and flawed. 

I always thought Fury was the far more natural talent of the two so it was an easy choice as to who I 'picked'.

It would be easy if you could support both, but I think the nature of boxing as a sport (where people tend to have a bit of investment in the personalities of fighters) makes that tricky.

That being said, I think I like Usyk and Fury equally so I have no idea who I'd "support" if they fought. I just hope the fight gets made and the best man wins on the night. 

I can’t see how Usyk gets anything out of a fight with Fury, he’s too big and too good. 

In regards to AJ, i don’t get the hate, he’s always been an entertaining boxer who’s just fell slightly short the last couple of fights. However there’s no doubting he bought back some entertainment to the division. 

[Maltshoveller]

On 25/08/2022 at 18:47, Rob k said:

AJ was winning on 2 judges scorecards after the 9th on Saturday 

Say more about Matchroom and the judges than it does about the actual fight 

[Phileas Fogg]

14 hours ago, Rob k said:

I can’t see how Usyk gets anything out of a fight with Fury, he’s too big and too good. 

In regards to AJ, i don’t get the hate, he’s always been an entertaining boxer who’s just fell slightly short the last couple of fights. However there’s no doubting he bought back some entertainment to the division. 

I think it's an intriguing fight. Usyk is incredibly adaptable, as is Fury, and I think if anyone in the current division can beat Fury then it's Usyk. 

With Joshua - yes he is entertaining to watch. I think lots of the scepticism it comes from the Sky Sports and Matchroom propaganda. Pundits like Bellew and Johnny Nelson are so biased that it's almost insulting to the watching public. 

[B1ackbird]

I thought it was tight, but  Usyk deserved it in the end, Bellew coming out with a load of B***** because Jordan had the temerity to criticise his meal ticket on national radio.

Unbelievable fight soon as Leigh Wood takes on the Warrington slayer Lara....

[joe jordans teeth]

On 26/08/2022 at 19:15, Rob k said:

I can’t see how Usyk gets anything out of a fight with Fury, he’s too big and too good. 

In regards to AJ, i don’t get the hate, he’s always been an entertaining boxer who’s just fell slightly short the last couple of fights. However there’s no doubting he bought back some entertainment to the division. 

Usyk has all the belts but fury’s,if Tyson wants half a billy if I was Usyk I would say give me a full billy 

[joe jordans teeth]

4 hours ago, B1ackbird said:

I thought it was tight, but  Usyk deserved it in the end, Bellew coming out with a load of B***** because Jordan had the temerity to criticise his meal ticket on national radio.

Unbelievable fight soon as Leigh Wood takes on the Warrington slayer Lara....

Same as Spencer on talksport it’s bloody cringeworthy 

[mozo]

Hughie Fury is going to face Michael Hunter in October as a final WBA eliminator. 

If Tyson Fury then beats Usyk to win all the belts, then immediately retires as unified champion, the WBA title would be vacant.

Hughie would already have beaten the other  leading challenger so would he inherit the WBA title, or would he still have to fight the next in line for the vacant title?

Just wondering if there's a grand plan in the Fury camp.

[mozo]

13 hours ago, TomF said:

Any word on Fury relinquishing the WBC belt? I believe he had till 26th to confirm if he was retiring or not.

I hadn’t realised he’d given up the ring belt as well.  

Didn't Fury set a deadline of tomorrow for someone to finance the fight. Maybe he has formally expressed his desire to unify, knowing that he can just retire if he doesn't get sufficient money on the table. 

[Phileas Fogg]

On 30/08/2022 at 21:45, TomF said:

Any word on Fury relinquishing the WBC belt? I believe he had till 26th to confirm if he was retiring or not.

I hadn’t realised he’d given up the ring belt as well.  

He's officially informed the WBC that he's not relinquishing the belt and wants to make the fight.

People get far too caught up in the hot air Fury spouts. If you read between the lines (not relinquishing the belt and what Arum and Warren are saying in interviews) it's clear they're trying to make the fight.

Obviously £500m is ridiculous, but it's clearly just a negotiation tactic.

The interesting question is location. For once, I wouldn't be opposed to this fight being overseas. It's a undisputed fight and it wouldn't be fair to give Fury home advantage. That being said, Usyk's record shows he clearly doesn't care about that so I doubt he'd mind if it happened in the spring at Wembley. 

It can't happen in the US but the atmosphere is always so rubbish at middle east fights.

I just want this fight to happen as fairly as possible in a true case of "may the best man win".. I think it'll probably happen around next March/April. No way it happens in December IMO.

I also see Hearn saying Joshua may go on a "world tour" fighting in the US, Middle East and China. I think this is a fairly good plan. He's out of the world title picture for a while, but is clearly still a huge brand. Taking some winnable fights in emerging markets is pretty sensible for both Joshua and DAZN. Hearn also confirmed that a fight with Dillian Whyte is on the cards as expected. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Phileas Fogg

[mozo]

4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

He's officially informed the WBC that he's not relinquishing the belt and wants to make the fight.

People get far too caught up in the hot air Fury spouts. If you read between the lines (not relinquishing the belt and what Arum and Warren are saying in interviews) it's clear they're trying to make the fight.

Obviously £500m is ridiculous, but it's clearly just a negotiation tactic.

The interesting question is location. For once, I wouldn't be opposed to this fight being overseas. It's a undisputed fight and it wouldn't be fair to give Fury home advantage. That being said, Usyk's record shows he clearly doesn't care about that so I doubt he'd mind if it happened in the spring at Wembley. 

It can't happen in the US but the atmosphere is always so rubbish at middle east fights.

I just want this fight to happen as fairly as possible in a true case of "may the best man win".. I think it'll probably happen around next March/April. No way it happens in December IMO.

I also see Hearn saying Joshua may go on a "world tour" fighting in the US, Middle East and China. I think this is a fairly good plan. He's out of the world title picture for a while, but is clearly still a huge brand. Taking some winnable fights in emerging markets is pretty sensible for both Joshua and DAZN. Hearn also confirmed that a fight with Dillian Whyte is on the cards as expected. 

Yeah agree with your analysis. Following a couple of easy fights, I reckon AJ should fight Whyte and Ruiz again. That should bump him back up to contender status and there's lower risk with good narrative there. Whyte is the only British heavyweight they should consider. The rest are either too dangerous or too domestic level.

Fury again fighting without a tune up fight? I guess he seems to get away with that.

[Phileas Fogg]

11 minutes ago, mozo said:

Yeah agree with your analysis. Following a couple of easy fights, I reckon AJ should fight Whyte and Ruiz again. That should bump him back up to contender status and there's lower risk with good narrative there. Whyte is the only British heavyweight they should consider. The rest are either too dangerous or too domestic level.

Fury again fighting without a tune up fight? I guess he seems to get away with that.

Technically Joshua owes Ruiz a third fight. Ruiz beat him more comprehensively than Joshua did in the rematch. Personally I don't want to see it, but it wouldn't surprise me if that ones gets made to 'right that wrong'. I think Whyte is a shoe in, as is Zhang (Hearn mentioned fighting in China). 

Whilst I don't particularly like him, I do enjoy watching Joshua fight and he's very exciting - so I hope he gets going again soon. I suspect it might not be until February or so though. I notice Hearn has already conceded that December is unlikely. 

I think the difficulty is that Fury wants big money to fight now, and it's hard to justify a tune up for him like it was a couple of years ago. He fought Schwartz and Wallin partly to introduce him to the US audience off the back of that ESPN deal. It also let him get the last of the rust off and was very effective. Wilder 2 is probably the best I've ever seen him all things considered.

The other issue with Usyk is who would be a good tune up? Stylistically he's very unique. I guess you could say the same the for Usyk too - who's good preparation for Fury?

 

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Technically Joshua owes Ruiz a third fight. Ruiz beat him more comprehensively than Joshua did in the rematch. Personally I don't want to see it, but it wouldn't surprise me if that ones gets made to 'right that wrong'. I think Whyte is a shoe in, as is Zhang (Hearn mentioned fighting in China). 

Whilst I don't particularly like him, I do enjoy watching Joshua fight and he's very exciting - so I hope he gets going again soon. I suspect it might not be until February or so though. I notice Hearn has already conceded that December is unlikely. 

I think the difficulty is that Fury wants big money to fight now, and it's hard to justify a tune up for him like it was a couple of years ago. He fought Schwartz and Wallin partly to introduce him to the US audience off the back of that ESPN deal. It also let him get the last of the rust off and was very effective. Wilder 2 is probably the best I've ever seen him all things considered.

The other issue with Usyk is who would be a good tune up? Stylistically he's very unique. I guess you could say the same the for Usyk too - who's good preparation for Fury?

 

Just to shake off the ring rust I reckon it would be optimal for Fury to fight some 6ft 3 tryer, but yeah don't think he'll bother. 

Talksport now reporting that Usyk's manager saying the fight is 80% certain and likely to be in Saudi.

[Phileas Fogg]

20 minutes ago, mozo said:

Just to shake off the ring rust I reckon it would be optimal for Fury to fight some 6ft 3 tryer, but yeah don't think he'll bother. 

Talksport now reporting that Usyk's manager saying the fight is 80% certain and likely to be in Saudi.

That’s good. Usyk’s team don’t play games or muck about. They’re more reliable in general than Hearn/Warren/Arum and especially Fury.

I like both fighters so genuinely don’t have a preference who wins - just really want to see it happen.

[mozo]

Maybe Fury will get his tune up fight after all.

He's been challenged by Mahmoud (Formerly Manuel) Charr. He's based in German, 37, and always faltered at World level, albeit he recently held the WBA regular title . 

Usyk saying he needs R&R so unlikely he'll be ready til Spring. 

[AirlieBeachRed]

On 02/09/2022 at 00:01, Phileas Fogg said:

Technically Joshua owes Ruiz a third fight. Ruiz beat him more comprehensively than Joshua did in the rematch. Personally I don't want to see it, but it wouldn't surprise me if that ones gets made to 'right that wrong'. I think Whyte is a shoe in, as is Zhang (Hearn mentioned fighting in China). 

Whilst I don't particularly like him, I do enjoy watching Joshua fight and he's very exciting - so I hope he gets going again soon. I suspect it might not be until February or so though. I notice Hearn has already conceded that December is unlikely. 

I think the difficulty is that Fury wants big money to fight now, and it's hard to justify a tune up for him like it was a couple of years ago. He fought Schwartz and Wallin partly to introduce him to the US audience off the back of that ESPN deal. It also let him get the last of the rust off and was very effective. Wilder 2 is probably the best I've ever seen him all things considered.

The other issue with Usyk is who would be a good tune up? Stylistically he's very unique. I guess you could say the same the for Usyk too - who's good preparation for Fury?

 

I agree.

The 2nd fight against Wilder he was a completely different beast, the best I have seen him.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

Usyk vs Fury could be telling it will be the first world class boxer Fury has boxed since Vitali.  Wielder has dodged and weaved everyone and thought Fury was another easy fight. 

[B1ackbird]

Fury v AJ at Christmas, would be great if paired with an England world cup win ..

 

Marshall v Shields, I feel Savannah has to KO her to win....

[mozo]

Fury's challenge to Joshua is interesting isn't it? 

In his challenge video he references that AJ is 'beltless' and I think we can safely say that he'll offer the kind of split that will have Hearn spitting feathers. But really, shouldn't Joshua take any opportunity to challenge for a title?

And actually, maybe that's the genius of the challenge. Joshua has to walk away from a title challenge knowing that he might not get a chance any time soon otherwise.

But also it's arguably a really good time to get Joshua in as an opponent. He's been beaten what 3 times in his past 5 fights? Despite his game effort recently, there's a possibility that he's going through a crisis of confidence. 

Certainly if they don't fight now, they never will.

[Rob k]

32 minutes ago, mozo said:

Fury's challenge to Joshua is interesting isn't it? 

In his challenge video he references that AJ is 'beltless' and I think we can safely say that he'll offer the kind of split that will have Hearn spitting feathers. But really, shouldn't Joshua take any opportunity to challenge for a title?

And actually, maybe that's the genius of the challenge. Joshua has to walk away from a title challenge knowing that he might not get a chance any time soon otherwise.

But also it's arguably a really good time to get Joshua in as an opponent. He's been beaten what 3 times in his past 5 fights? Despite his game effort recently, there's a possibility that he's going through a crisis of confidence. 

Certainly if they don't fight now, they never will.

The challenge appears to have been accepted and AJ Says he will be ready in December 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Rob k

[mozo]

10 hours ago, Rob k said:

The challenge appears to have been accepted and AJ Says he will be ready in December 

Wait til Hearn insists on 45/55 and Warren goes in for 90/10 

I'm skeptical, but if they do fight it would be massive bonus! 

[Super]

Not a chance that fight will happen in Dec. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Super

[mozo]

So far both fighters and both promoters have said they want it.... Fury says he had the venue.

[Super]

22 minutes ago, mozo said:

So far both fighters and both promoters have said they want it.... Fury says he had the venue.

Prob happen next June/July when Wembley is available.

[Super]

15 minutes ago, TomF said:

Going away from AJ/Fury for moment - Sheilds/Marshall this weekend on sky should be an absolute banger, right? 

Not sure i have seen as much dislike between 2 women boxers!

[Stortz]

1 hour ago, Super said:

Not sure i have seen as much dislike between 2 women boxers!

I think Mayer and Baumgardner hate each other more tbh!

2 hours ago, mozo said:

So far both fighters and both promoters have said they want it.... Fury says he had the venue.

I can't see it. Queensbury will lowball Joshua then claim AJ shit it, then Tyson will fight the ghost of Charr or similar imo.

Where does Tyson think they'll fight in the UK at that time of year? Nowhere indoors is big enough and the Millenium Stadium doesn't have any gaps in November as far as I can see?

 

edit- just saw Fury confirming a 60/40 split. Now I am legitimately interested...

Edited September 6, 2022 by Stortz

[Stortz]

5 minutes ago, TomF said:

The only thing I'd say is Fury's first video.. there is none of his usual bravado/chatting shit.. its straight down the line and respectful. That's where I started to think.

He might also be thinking that Uysk might not come off and this might be the last big payday..

If old fish eyes misspoke on Talk Sport when he said November and they are in fact trying to get the fight on in December, then it's hard to see how Joshua can turn it down.