You Reap What You Sow

[Guest]

The Championship is a significantly different place to 2 years ago. And next year it will see yet another sea change thanks to the money pit of the Premier League. I do not accept the powers that be at this club fail to understand that.

However, only time will tell if we have put in place all the factors to optimise success this time around. Nothing we clamour to discuss here will change that so I, for one, am just gonna enjoy the ride.

I think they do, but where is the magic wand or what is the solution? Well to me it lies in either stretching the club's resources beyond all reasonable means, or it takes surviving in the short term and hoping to steadily build success. Each are gambles and you can make a case for each, but I'd rather be a solvent league one club than a hamstrung, regretful league two club or worse. The risks in stretching are far too great  

Whilst the Championship has changed what's changed also and continues to keep changing is how happy players are to contribute to the death of a club. Look at Pompey'a creditor list of footballers and think of players like Ben Haim and Kanu. In '82 we may have survived on the massive generosity of 8 players, we'd have no chance this time around. The stakes and risks are much higher, now beyond reason.

I appreciate how much money SL has, but to my mind it's always something quite separate to how much BCFC has. Whilst comfortable with the situation now, if we overstretch and underachieve it could become such a strain and even test commitment. No wonder he doesn't want any one player owing more than £20k a week. 

 

[Turbored]

The manager has made it clear he wasn't happy with summer transfer dealings or lack of and everyone on the forum has shared their concerns. We need to put this behind us and look forward. 

Landsdown has invested heavily in Bristol and Bristol City. I struggle to understand how fans can question or criticise.

With or without signings this was always a big step up. We need to find a formation that suits our players. COYR

PS Kodjia was a good signing.

No one is doubting Lansdowns commitment to Bristol city but are questioning whether he interferes too much . Also the football side of things should be left to football people to get on with not a financial advisor. Yes the money has to be managed but you can't expect to get championship players when you only pay L1 wages.

[Portland Bill]

I planned on just taking a back seat tonight, cooling down a bit. Then was gonna post tomorrow. Your post.....is pretty much spot on what I would have wrote. It's uncanny.

I posted on here about 3 or 4 years ago that this club, is ran in a completely shambolic way. I posted about how amateur we are, and how things will never change as Lansdown doesn't know how to. Great business man....absolutely shocking at running football club.

I just cannot believe what a balls up we have made of it. The cock up a couple of years ago was bad enough...but even the most pessimistic of fans wouldn't have seen this cock up coming.

Sad thing is, these players had real potential at this level, but they needed help. They needed support. They needed new players to come in and help them evolve. Both they and the fans have been let down by the board and by the manager.

Shocking

 

 

The problem is, yes we needed to bring in better players, but to do that ( paying 20-20k a week to these new players) you would probably rip the spirit out of the dressing room.

How do you deal with a situation ( for instance) where two strikers get changed next to each other, one on 8k a week and the other on 25k, animosity would be rife.

It's still early in the season, we aren't far away from some decent results, and it's generally thought that we are playing well in most games but not getting those results.

We went to Boro and won, who knows what might happen over the next 7 months!

 

 

 

[Turbored]

The problem is, yes we needed to bring in better players, but to do that ( paying 20-20k a week to these new players) you would probably rip the spirit out of the dressing room.

How do you deal with a situation ( for instance) where two strikers get changed next to each other, one on 8k a week and the other on 25k, animosity would be rife.

It's still early in the season, we aren't far away from some decent results, and it's generally thought that we are playing well in most games but not getting those results.

We went to Boro and won, who knows what might happen over the next 7 months!

 

 

 

Totally agree with you about having two players on very different salaries but if we are going to stay in this division it's inevitable that situation will arise. How you deal with it though is another story and will take all the best skills of a very good man management team.

[WTMS]

It's going to be a long winter. Last season's crop is running out and because the powers that be decided they couldn't afford the seeds this summer the resulting harvest is likely to be dismal. 

To be honest it is scandalous that certain suits have dictated where this club is heading - straight back to league 1. I know the players that we have will all try their best because they are a good bunch but they (and us) have been badly let down by people behind the scenes. There aren't enough of them, some of them simply aren't good enough & they are already feeling the pace - 3 games in a week was mentioned as a reason today.

Only at this club could you go from being on such a high with incredible momentum in May to the shambles that is now unfolding. By the time January comes when inevitably Mr Lansdown begins to panic with the Platinum Card we could be in a situation that no-one wants to joins us anyway because we are already a basket case. Top Class stadium with League 1 journey men is a truly sad thought.

Out of interest could you parallel other clubs /,models as being forms of best practice, and identify how Mr Lansdown would finance them?

[bristolcitysweden]

The problem is that the budget for new signings presented to Steve Lansdown by Steve Cotterill, Keith Burt and John Pelling lacked a reality check

[WTMS]

The problem is that the budget for new signings presented to Steve Lansdown by Steve Cotterill, Keith Burt and John Pelling lacked a reality check

Mr Lansdown decides how much Bristol City will be spending, what the budget is and how the debts the club has will be governed. 

What do you think the budget should be and how would it be afforded? 

[bristolcitysweden]

Mr Lansdown decides how much Bristol City will be spending, what the budget is and how the debts the club has will be governed. 

What do you think the budget should be and how would it be afforded? 

The budget presented was poor. We could not get our targets on that budget hence our shortcomings in the transfer market. Pellings head has already rolled.   

[Guest]

The problem is, yes we needed to bring in better players, but to do that ( paying 20-20k a week to these new players) you would probably rip the spirit out of the dressing room.

How do you deal with a situation ( for instance) where two strikers get changed next to each other, one on 8k a week and the other on 25k, animosity would be rife.

It's still early in the season, we aren't far away from some decent results, and it's generally thought that we are playing well in most games but not getting those results.

We went to Boro and won, who knows what might happen over the next 7 months!

 

 

 

Didn't seem to be a problem with Smith last season, who must have been on double what anyone else was on.

Can't say I agree about generally playing well, not that it counts for anything unless you score goals and keep them out at the other end.

we will be in the bottom third of the table at seasons end, hopefully above the relegation spots, much depends on how we perform against the teams in the bottom third with us, a great opportunity missed to use last seasons momentum to move forward, those at the top have a lot to answer for and I don't mean SC.

 

 

[WTMS]

The budget presented was poor. We could not get our targets on that budget hence our shortcomings in the transfer market. Pellings head has already rolled.   

What budget was poor? Do you know what it is?

Again. What do you think the budget should be and how would it be afforded?

Would you propose to increase the debts Bristol City has? Is there a club you feel Bristol City should be looking to emulate?

There are threads on otib that contain similar themes fans want a,b,c and Mr Lansdown is wrong, and he must spend x and xx more, but no specifics examining how it would be afforded beyond Mr Lansdown's pays for it all again.

[Bristol Rob]

Strikes me the blame for our lack of competitive budget can be placed fairly and squarely at the doors of those who pay for Sky, watch premier league football and agreed to massively inflated parachute payments.

With a playing field more sloped than a vintage Yeovil pitch you either try and survive, build slowly and hope for a great season, or you use your parachute payment to keep the nucleus of a premier league squad together whilst paying wages on new signings that those who aren't in the parachute can only dream of paying.

Personally, I would like the club to be here for years to come and not be a statistic of failure. We aren't a big club, unless we judge the club based on a League one parameter alone.

[screech]

What budget was poor? Do you know what it is?

Again. What do you think the budget should be and how would it be afforded?

Would you propose to increase the debts Bristol City has? Is there a club you feel Bristol City should be looking to emulate?

There are threads on otib that contain similar themes fans want a,b,c and Mr Lansdown is wrong,  and he must spend x and xx more, but no specifics examining how it would be afforded beyond Mr Lansdown's pays for it all again.

I think he means that the players presented were too expensive to fit into our budget. Which is not the fault of the chairman, hence Pelling leaving.

 

[WTMS]

I think he means that the players presented were too expensive to fit into our budget. Which is not the fault of the chairman, hence Pelling leaving.

 

Then how do people on here propose to increase funds?

Mr Lansdown has already restructured very large debts. 

[screech]

Then how do people on here propose to increase funds?

Mr Lansdown has already restructured very large debts. 

No idea, we are a club with a small budget in a league where we have been told already have a bottom 6 budget.

[REDOXO]

So not been a great start. Certainly not converting enough chances and defending Naively at times.

However this club is entirely where it is on the basis of Mr. Lansdowns money and I will bet you a pound to a penny he is not bloody happy either!

 

 

[Turbored]

What budget was poor? Do you know what it is?

Again. What do you think the budget should be and how would it be afforded?

Would you propose to increase the debts Bristol City has? Is there a club you feel Bristol City should be looking to emulate?

There are threads on otib that contain similar themes fans want a,b,c and Mr Lansdown is wrong, and he must spend x and xx more, but no specifics examining how it would be afforded beyond Mr Lansdown's pays for it all again.

None of us know what exactly the budget is but what we do hear is soundbites telling us there not gonna pay xyz in wages. Well if they ain't gonna pay the going rate then we won't get any half decent championship players . The debt that's incurred will be totally irrelevant if we reach the premier league but that's a big if for us to get there. Its  Lansdown telling us that's his goal is the premier league so if he wants it he is going to have to pay to get there as you won't do it with L1 players.

Personally not interested in PL but would just like us to be competitive in championship and perhaps even a run at the playoffs. 

[Andy082005]

The problem is, yes we needed to bring in better players, but to do that ( paying 20-20k a week to these new players) you would probably rip the spirit out of the dressing room.

How do you deal with a situation ( for instance) where two strikers get changed next to each other, one on 8k a week and the other on 25k, animosity would be rife.

It's still early in the season, we aren't far away from some decent results, and it's generally thought that we are playing well in most games but not getting those results.

We went to Boro and won, who knows what might happen over the next 7 months!

 

 

 

I accept what you say, and agree it could cause a few issues in the changing room. This is surely a situation every club, up and down the country....has to deal with.

With regards ripping the spirit out of the changing room....seems like that's happening anyway. Yesterdays game we looked so void of confidence and spirit...it was embarrassing 

[Guest]

None of us know what exactly the budget is but what we do hear is soundbites telling us there not gonna pay xyz in wages. Well if they ain't gonna pay the going rate then we won't get any half decent championship players . The debt that's incurred will be totally irrelevant if we reach the premier league but that's a big if for us to get there. Its  Lansdown telling us that's his goal is the premier league so if he wants it he is going to have to pay to get there as you won't do it with L1 players.

Personally not interested in PL but would just like us to be competitive in championship and perhaps even a run at the playoffs. 

And yet the 'going rate' wouldn't be sustainable even if just to achieve your aim.

[Turbored]

And yet the 'going rate' wouldn't be sustainable even if just to achieve your aim.

Exactly.. So what is the clubs goal then is what I am alluding to? What direction do the they want us to head ? We are never going to get 20k crowds in championship so will we ever be able to compete financially unless Mr Lansdown doesn't increase debt and take a risk.

[WTMS]

None of us know what exactly the budget is but what we do hear is soundbites telling us there not gonna pay xyz in wages. Well if they ain't gonna pay the going rate then we won't get any half decent championship players . The debt that's incurred will be totally irrelevant if we reach the premier league but that's a big if for us to get there. Its  Lansdown telling us that's his goal is the premier league so if he wants it he is going to have to pay to get there as you won't do it with L1 players.

Personally not interested in PL but would just like us to be competitive in championship and perhaps even a run at the playoffs. 

What is the going rate?

If players are demanding a million per annum, how is Steve Lansdown gong to fund this? How will BCFC service further debts to fund these half decent players transfer fees then salaries?

Mr Lansdown is spending forty million pounds of his own money redeveloping Ashton Gate to increase spending - service debt, has revamped the academy, and in opposition there are fans demanding far more who cannot provide one cogent post which would provide a blue print to follow.

 

[robin_unreliant]

No idea, we are a club with a small budget in a league where we have been told already have a bottom 6 budget.

Which was stated clearly by the Board at the end of last season. They made it clear we would struggle to compete financially. So why did we target players way out of our reach knowing this? Total lack of clarity within the club on the approach it seems. One day £7m is a ridiculous price and the next day we bid £9m. Just smacks of chaos and lack of any real clear plan on what we were gonna do.

[Turbored]

What is the going rate?

I really don't know the answer but I wish I did but you have to presume we are not prepared to pay it as for the lack of transfer activity.  

[phil_clevedon]

No-one's mentioned the limitations placed on clubs by FFP. No matter how much money SL has or is willing to spend, we cannot finish the season with a loss of more than £13m. That's why AG had to be redeveloped and probably why we are going to have to survive in the Championship while we increase our turnover. Just as an example, Reading's turnover is currently about 5 times more than ours, therefore they are able to work to a much higher wage budget...it showed yesterday!

[screech]

Which was stated clearly by the Board at the end of last season. They made it clear we would struggle to compete financially. So why did we target players way out of our reach knowing this? Total lack of clarity within the club on the approach it seems. One day £7m is a ridiculous price and the next day we bid £9m. Just smacks of chaos and lack of any real clear plan on what we were gonna do.

Who knows what the fee was, supposedly 6 rising to 9, but the fee doesn't matter, it's the wages that count.

A fee was agreed and I find it hard to believe that we didn't discuss wages with the agent, Burnley offered the same transfer fee and paid the agent what he wanted, when the players want another club what can you do with that?

[Turbored]

No-one's mentioned the limitations placed on clubs by FFP. No matter how much money SL has or is willing to spend, we cannot finish the season with a loss of more than £13m. That's why AG had to be redeveloped and probably why we are going to have to survive in the Championship while we increase our turnover. Just as an example, Reading's turnover is currently about 5 times more than ours, therefore they are able to work to a much higher wage budget...it showed yesterday!

FFP is more or less irrelevant now and will be dead in a year or so time , this being that Platini has now decided that as the English clubs get so much cash through the TVs deals that it's unfair on other clubs in Europe.  The other clubs in Europe cannot compete as they don't have the sky/bt millions.

[Nogbad the Bad]

    

    EDIT: Nogbad, not PB.

The players should realise that City signing one or two established players on higher wages enhances their own prospects of continuing to play at this level and therefore maintaining their present levels of pay.

If they don't like it the club should reassure them that if another club comes in for them offering them similar wages to those they envy, and our valuation is met, then the offer will be accepted.

These players were often picked up from L1 clubs, invariably got big wage rises on signing for City, and huge increments again on promotion.

They owe their present level of pay to Steve Cotterill for moulding them into a successful side that took them all up a level, both in footballing terms and remuneration, and they should be mighty grateful for that.

If they can't get their heads round the fact that proven successful new signings will naturally arrive on higher wages than them they simply need to grow up or shove in a transfer request to see how highly other clubs really rate them.

It's not as though they were all on exactly the same wages last season when we're forever being told what a tight knit and happy dressing room we had at AG, and there won't be one club in the league without a few exceptional players on higher wages than the rest.

 

[mcbcfc]

I lay the blame soley at the feet of Burt

 

There must be money available - we had 2 £6m bids accepted. If we couldn't afford the wages why bid for them? No one can tell me chairmen, DoF & managers don't talk to agents before a deal is done. If we'ld have asked about Gayle or Gray & their agent came back saying they want £xxx a week then make the decison to persue or not. Clearly in these cases we should have moved straight onto the next target.

The transfer policy has completely failed. We've wasted a window & there is a real possibility it could cost us our place in the championship.

[Northern Red]

Everything's been downhill since the victory parade last season. Since we announced our retained list it's just got increasingly worse, momentum well and truly lost. Said all along we'd be punished for our summer activity, whilst the happy clappers dismissed such a view.

He's not coming back. Get over it.

[Robbored]

 

Your blaming Burt?  

 

That's a very harsh comment to make.

Just ask yourself who employed Burt and who dictates the wage budget?

 

[Kid in the Riot]

That's a very harsh comment to make.

Just ask yourself who employed Burt and who dictates the wage budget?

He is Director of Football, of course he should take some of the blame.

Pelling was the money man and he's taken the fall. Do we dissect from that that we miscalculated how much we were able to offer Gray in wages after offering such big fees?