Beaten by " tiredness"

[Major Isewater]

So we were actually beaten , not by ex-Premiership side Reading but by tiredness.

i believe there is some truth in this but these lads are cosseted professionals who,  as we were all informed , stayed in a hotel after the Brum game to be fresh for Preston.

They got back at 3am Tuesday night, leaving them just 3 nights to recover.The poor lambs. 

What about The supporters who followed them for the Preston match and did there and back in the same day ?

I actually think that the lads are tired.It being a hangover from last season when they played around sixty games.

We were very lucky with injuries last year and this year we should have bought in fresh energy to drive on. Can we really expect the same levels of performance  from the team  ?

Once again failed transfer window could be our undoing.

[LondonBristolian]

The simple fact is that, as the medical and scientific knowledge of sports science and maximising performances, more and more football clubs (and athletes in general) are using that knowledge to get that extra 2 or 3% out of players which seems like nothing but, across eleven players and across an entire season, can be the minor difference to turn narrow defeats into draws or draws into wins.

I completely believe getting back at 3am on Tuesday could affect their condition 3 days later.  Not massively, admittedly, but enough to put the team slightly off the pace in a way which can expose them against a team that's on the case in a 90 minute game.  If you've had a bad night's sleep then the impact of that'll be there for a few days as your body catches up - your mind is fractionally less alert and your reactions are fractionally slower.  None of which is massive but really can make a difference.
 

[Guest]

They were tired, it is a real thing. That is why teams that play champions or Europa league in the week struggle in the next match like man city. Joe Bryan looked exhausted. But I think the main reason we lost is because what Steve Clarke said, he knew there would be gaps in our defence and he countered them. I think every manager now knows exactly how to play against us, tired or not, we're all over the place.

[Major Isewater]

Reading went down to 10 men at home to Derby on Tuesday night.

[Robin1988]

So we were actually beaten , not by ex-Premiership side Reading but by tiredness.

i believe there is some truth in this but these lads are cosseted professionals who,  as we were all informed , stayed in a hotel after the Brum game to be fresh for Preston.

They got back at 3am Tuesday night, leaving them just 3 nights to recover.The poor lambs. 

What about The supporters who followed them for the Preston match and did there and back in the same day ?

I actually think that the lads are tired.It being a hangover from last season when they played around sixty games.

We were very lucky with injuries last year and this year we should have bought in fresh energy to drive on. Can we really expect the same levels of performance  from the team  ?

Once again failed transfer window could be our undoing.

What point exactly are you making? You seem to mock them for being mollycoddled then say we needed to reinforce the squad because they are tired...

[bemmyredjeff]

Very poor excuses again from cotterill.

All championship sides could have made the same excuse given the fixtures in the past week.

Except reading and Ipswich who had an extra 19 hours rest playing on the Friday night.

I'm sure that made a big difference to reading Steve !

[BCFC Jimmer]

If you are expecting enlightening and truthful interviews from SC I am afraid he is just not that kind of manager.

I have stopped watching them for the most part now because you don't learn anything - I expect he is just making some of it up to take pressure of the players.

It has always concerned me what he will be like after a really bad run.  He is going to start really annoying fans and staff I fear.

 

[Major Isewater]

What point exactly are you making? You seem to mock them for being mollycoddled then say we needed to reinforce the squad because they are tired...

Good point , they should n't be tired after only  8 matches in and just coming off the back of an international break.

With all the médical and scientific knowledge at our club this should n't happen. 

They are mollycoddled .

However i believe it is more a problem linked to overplaying last season and not having sufficient numbers to manage a squad correctly.

 

[Buckeyed]

Very poor excuses again from cotterill.

 

To be honest, the excuses he comes out with are all valid, however, he is in the position that he should be able to foresee the issues and sort them out.

[stevep38]

You know it always annoys me when these tired excuses are given. 

As an ex Royal Marine I would of been derided if I had said I'm tired when in Afghanistan or Iraq on ops. You just got on with it for your mates. 

No fancy plush hotels ect for us. 

They should try that instead of saying oh we're tired 

[spudski]

From what I saw on Saturday I do believe it probably did play a part, some of the boys looked f##ked towards the end, especially Joe   Bryan & Luke Ayling

Freeman also looked like he was towing a caravan at times, probably not fit due to missing 3 games 

But what is pissing me off the more and more I think about it is our dreadful inactivity during the transfer window, I'm sure I'm not alone but it's really boiling my piss, how can we come up as champions having plenty of time to prepare etc etc balls that one up??

Answers a postcard please.............

Hey ho, I'll still be getting right behind the lads though no matter what

Up the City!!

You make valid points. The 352 formation only works, if you have got energetic, fit and full of stamina wing backs, and creative midfielders...if that fails....the team fails.

It's a very attack minded formation. If the wing backs don't cover back....you will concede goals. If your creativity from he wing backs and midfield doesn't come forth....you won't score....it's as simple as that. Coaching manuals and any coach will tell you that's the pros and cons of the 352.

Bryan....has been fantastic in general in his wing back position...but he needs help...Robinson isn't hat help imho. Games will catch up with him.

Little isn't fit....and Ayling doesn't have the speed, fitness and stamina to play wing back. So we are short in both positions atm.

Freeman and Reid are our only real creative central midfielders.... Both will have games at this level where they won't perform.

If all three positions fail in a game....you'll lose...like we did against Reading.

[Super]

Well Wilbs isn't up to playing 3 games in a week as was proved on Saturday.

[Roe]

:laugh:. I'm really not sure what people expect managers to say after defeats. If Cotts says "we played well and were a bit unlucky", he gets ridiculed. If he says "we weren't good enough or quite up to scratch today", again he gets criticised with people saying "well why not?"

They're not trying to lose ffs.

[spudski]

:laugh:. I'm really not sure what people expect managers to say after defeats. If Cotts says "we played well and were a bit unlucky", he gets ridiculed. If he says "we weren't good enough or quite up to scratch today", again he gets criticised with people saying "well why not?"

They're not trying to lose ffs.

Why not say 'we were beaten by a better team on the day, who exploited our weaknesses?'

The last two games, the oppositions managers have come out and said where they were going to beat us....exploiting our weaknesses....more worryingly, Readings manager was quoted as saying he couldn't see where we were going to score from, which is meant to be our strengths.

[redcherryberry]

Cotterill was spot on for me with his post-match comments. The players were ‘tired’ but there’s a reason for that.

 

Unlike every other team in this division were unable to make many changes given our paper thin squad so 3 games a week was always going to be a tough ask.

I actually feel for our players there over cooked & some need an immediate rest!

 

Our inept summer transfer business was always going to come back and bite SC & Burt on the arse. I can see it getting worse before it gets better.

[Curr Avon]

Tired? I thought that we played Reading. Not Bedtime Reading.

[Roe]

Why not say 'we were beaten by a better team on the day, who exploited our weaknesses?'

The last two games, the oppositions managers have come out and said where they were going to beat us....exploiting our weaknesses....more worryingly, Readings manager was quoted as saying he couldn't see where we were going to score from, which is meant to be our strengths.

Because Cotterill is a manager that likes to focus on ourselves, rather than the opposition? Maybe to his detriment so far this season, I'd agree. Previously when we had managers that credited the opposition, they'd get blamed for that as well. You really can't win as a manager, unless you happen to win all the time.

We were poor against Reading and it was probably one of our worst performances since Cotterill has been here. I just don't understand why people have to mock our own manager for using a legit excuse that the players probably were a bit tired on Saturday. But I guess I should know this forum and people in general better by now.

[Guest]

You make valid points. The 352 formation only works, if you have got energetic, fit and full of stamina wing backs, and creative midfielders...if that fails....the team fails.

It's a very attack minded formation. If the wing backs don't cover back....you will concede goals. If your creativity from he wing backs and midfield doesn't come forth....you won't score....it's as simple as that. Coaching manuals and any coach will tell you that's the pros and cons of the 352.

Bryan....has been fantastic in general in his wing back position...but he needs help...Robinson isn't hat help imho. Games will catch up with him.

Little isn't fit....and Ayling doesn't have the speed, fitness and stamina to play wing back. So we are short in both positions atm.

Freeman and Reid are our only real creative central midfielders.... Both will have games at this level where they won't perform.

If all three positions fail in a game....you'll lose...like we did against Reading.

The main issue for me is not the wing backs getting into a full back position but the three defenders doing exactly that, defending.

Williams was way out of position on Saturday for one of the goals having ventured upfield almost alongside Bryant.

The back three have got to start holding their positions and at least attrmpting to fill the defensive area across the back.

Leave the attacking to the 7 other outfield players unless there is a free kick in our favour, and give ourselves at least a chance of defending against the counter attack when we lose possession in open play.

I also don't understand the reasoning behind staying away for so long.

We played at Birmingham, the players could have easily been in their own bed by 10.00 on Saturday night, spent Sunday  resting, own bed on Sunday night, train Monday AM, travel at lunchtime, in the hotel well before 7pm, had a lie in Tuesday prior to the game and benefitted from staying in their own beds rather than sharing a room in a hotel environment for 3 nights with all the upheaval and lack of family contact that brings.

wouldnt it then have been more advantageous to stay in the hotel at Preston rather than drive home, arriving about 4.00am, probably having dozed on the coach, and then not being able to get to sleep at home with out the aid of a pill probably.

the situation we find ourselves in would probably lead to a serious review of all aspects of the companies approach to a game in most businesses.

 

 

 

 

 

[Curr Avon]

Because Cotterill is a manager that likes to focus on ourselves, rather than the opposition? Maybe to his detriment so far this season, I'd agree. Previously when we had managers that credited the opposition, they'd get blamed for that as well. You really can't win as a manager, unless you happen to win all the time.

We were poor against Reading and it was probably one of our worst performances since Cotterill has been here. I just don't understand why people have to mock our own manager for using a legit excuse that the players probably were a bit tired on Saturday. But I guess I should know this forum and people in general better by now.

Joking aside, Roe, you're right. Cotterill likes to 'close ranks' because this represents the togetherness of the squad and has previously been very successful. Unfortunately that was easier to pull off with a small, injury free group of players that surged to promotion; the Championship has been a huge step up in class and the lack of additional, quality personnel is reflected by results.

[HLR]

The fact that after only 8 games into the season, tiredness is being used as an excuse is laughable.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Cotts. However, he does seem to like to come up with an excuse and shift blame every time we fail to get a result. It can never just be as simple as we made silly mistakes, the players weren't at the races today or my tactics weren't quite right. It always seems to be: the pitch was poor, the referees cost us the game, the players are tired - it just sometimes comes across a bit pretentious.

[spudski]

Because Cotterill is a manager that likes to focus on ourselves, rather than the opposition? Maybe to his detriment so far this season, I'd agree. Previously when we had managers that credited the opposition, they'd get blamed for that as well. You really can't win as a manager, unless you happen to win all the time.

We were poor against Reading and it was probably one of our worst performances since Cotterill has been here. I just don't understand why people have to mock our own manager for using a legit excuse that the players probably were a bit tired on Saturday. But I guess I should know this forum and people in general better by now.

Reading had the same amount of games as us in a week...so why were we more tired than them?

Surely it's better to just be honest? Fans aren't stupid...and however way you want to spin it...many fans don't like the way SC talks after a defeat...he's digging himself a big hole.

[TRL]

Tiredness, my arse, they had 2 after 15 to 20 minutes, maybe use it as excuse after 70 minutes, truth of the matter we were not good enough to break them down, tirness had nothing to do with being 2-0 down so early on.

[ChippenhamRed]

What annoyed me was the claim of "three games in a week".  It was two Saturday matches and a midweek fixture.  Hardly an unusual or unique scenario.  If the playing squad had anywhere near the strength in depth it actually needs, then if tiredness was genuinely an issue, he could have brought in quality replacements rather than being forced to play the same players again.  And the management only have themselves to blame that that isn't the case.  So frankly, I don't want to hear how tired they are.

[spudski]

The main issue for me is not the wing backs getting into a full back position but the three defenders doing exactly that, defending.

Williams was way out of position on Saturday for one of the goals having ventured upfield almost alongside Bryant.

The back three have got to start holding their positions and at least attrmpting to fill the defensive area across the back.

Leave the attacking to the 7 other outfield players unless there is a free kick in our favour, and give ourselves at least a chance of defending against the counter attack when we lose possession in open play.

I also don't understand the reasoning behind staying away for so long.

We played at Birmingham, the players could have easily been in their own bed by 10.00 on Saturday night, spent Sunday  resting, own bed on Sunday night, train Monday AM, travel at lunchtime, in the hotel well before 7pm, had a lie in Tuesday prior to the game and benefitted from staying in their own beds rather than sharing a room in a hotel environment for 3 nights with all the upheaval and lack of family contact that brings.

wouldnt it then have been more advantageous to stay in the hotel at Preston rather than drive home, arriving about 4.00am, probably having dozed on the coach, and then not being able to get to sleep at home with out the aid of a pill probably.

the situation we find ourselves in would probably lead to a serious review of all aspects of the companies approach to a game in most businesses.

 

 

 

 

 

With 352....the wing backs and wider defenders play as a unit.

If Bryan attacks....Williams will follow up and support and fill the hole left by Bryan.

The other two defenders move across and the other wing back drops back or defensive midfielder drops.

352....means a lot of rotation and movement and understanding....

Watch the highlights of the goals against us.....first two attacks come from playing the ball into the gap between Williams and Bryan....putting an extra player in that spot It's what Reading did well....and it is the weakness in a 352 formation.

The next goal came from an absolute nightmare first touch by Wilbs....our midfield was up to support......Reading quickly exploited that, and slotted the ball into the space in front of an exposed back 3.

All text book tactics on how to exploit a 352 system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPWnKAQusoE

[biggythecity]

I have always suscribed to the tired load of rubbish theory,then you hear that rugby players pretty much have to have a week off because their bodies have to recover.ok i know footballers dont get battered about but with all the travelling and training there has to be something to say for mental and physical tiredness kicking in

[Guest]

With 352....the wing backs and wider defenders play as a unit.

If Bryan attacks....Williams will follow up and support and fill the hole left by Bryan.

The other two defenders move across and the other wing back drops back or defensive midfielder drops.

352....means a lot of rotation and movement and understanding....

Watch the highlights of the goals against us.....first two attacks come from playing the ball into the gap between Williams and Bryan....putting an extra player in that spot It's what Reading did well....and it is the weakness in a 352 formation.

The next goal came from an absolute nightmare first touch by Wilbs....our midfield was up to support......Reading quickly exploited that, and slotted the ball into the space in front of an exposed back 3.

All text book tactics on how to exploit a 352 system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPWnKAQusoE

there is a difference between supporting the wingback and getting beyond him, that has been one of the problems particularly with Williams.

There is no reason why the back 3 can't hold station and the wingbacks be supported either by one or both of the defensive midfielders or the likes of Freeman.

alternatively if we had two quick guys upfront the wingbacks could play the ball forward more quickly rather than the checking out and passing back to the back three we saw a lot of on Saturday.

There is much less chance if we keep three back of being counter attacked down the flanks.

there is a big difference in  moving across to deal with a ball into the corner than trying to recover by making a sixty yard sprint.

of all the players who get caught out of position it seems the defenders are the most guilty.

 

 

 

[spudski]

there is a difference between supporting the wingback and getting beyond him, that has been one of the problems particularly with Williams.

There is no reason why the back 3 can't hold station and the wingbacks be supported either by one or both of the defensive midfielders or the likes of Freeman.

alternatively if we had two quick guys upfront the wingbacks could play the ball forward more quickly rather than the checking out and passing back to the back three we saw a lot of on Saturday.

There is much less chance if we keep three back of being counter attacked down the flanks.

there is a big difference in  moving across to deal with a ball into the corner than trying to recover by making a sixty yard sprint.

of all the players who get caught out of position it seems the defenders are the most guilty.

 

 

 

I wouldn't say the defenders are 'guilty' of being in those positions....those are the positions and tactics SC is asking them to apply. It's his decision to play that way.

He's asking the wider defenders to support the wing backs by moving up. You can see that's what they are under instruction to do.

SC isn't screaming at them for making mistakes...it's his tactics.

We played exactly the same way in League 1... The difference being, the clubs we are facing are generally more savvy at exploiting tactics and generally more ruthless.

We were undone on Saturday, by two goals that were classic cases of the weakness of the 352.

The only way I can see us stemming the flow right now, with a fully fit team, is by slightly changing the formation. It would still be offensive....but far less defensively weak.

Maybe try this?

 

[T R]

I'd like to see Ayling be moved to cm position. he hasn't got the pace to be a rwb and he hasn't got the height/strength to be a cb. He has been very exposed against the better quality of opposition in the championship. What he does have is good dribbling skills, passing and decent tackle, which to me sums up a good cm. Smith can play alongside him staying more defensive when Ayling goes off on one of his runs. Back 3 should be williams flint moore. Put Pack on the bench for now or even Ayling himself if he doesn't work out in cm. We just need Little asap really as he is solid at that rwb position, pace and strength to defend against good wingers, and has qualities to run down the wing to get in a cross. 

[Spoons]

I'm massive SC fan, but when I heard the word Tired, I screamed at the radio. If the game was to much for some should have mixed it up a bit and made a few changes. How can the squad be tired in September??

[Lord Northski]

I'm massive SC fan, but when I heard the word Tired, I screamed at the radio. If the game was to much for some should have mixed it up a bit and made a few changes. How can the squad be tired in September??

Completely agree. SC fan also but I wish he wouldn't talk nonsense like that.

[GrahamC]

Amazingly though we weren't "tired" when we went to Boro and won, even though we'd played Leeds on the Wednesday whereas Boro had been at home (so no travelling, either) on the Tuesday.

Just nonsense - Reading beat us because they are better than us, have spent far more money than us and already had a stronger squad before that.

[miketh2nd]

If we were that tired surely cotts would of told the cbs to sit back and not become midfielders like every game in the championship we are far too attacking.  If cotts knew we were tired why didn't he start burns, Reid and Robinson for ayling Freeman and wilbs that would of still left most of our usual team . 

We are pretty screwed if korey Smith has a serious injury and If the loan market can't get us a quality replacement. 

[Bazooka Joe]

Tiredness eh?  

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz!!

[Linkedarm wall]

I know Cotts like to take them away a lot before the game, think they went straight up to Preston on Saturday from Brum. To keep regular sleeping patterns and to in effect have the same nights away in a hotel keeping the cost down. Why not come home from Brum on Saturday afternoon its only an hour, then travel up Sunday lunchtime if he wants to train on Sunday, then stay Tuesday night after the game rather than getting back to the ground at stupid o'clock then the players having to drive home from there etc.Lie in on the Wednesday, full english they on we go!

[YorkshireSection]

From what I saw on Saturday I do believe it probably did play a part, some of the boys looked f##ked towards the end, especially Joe   Bryan & Luke Ayling

Freeman also looked like he was towing a caravan at times, probably not fit due to missing 3 games 

But what is pissing me off the more and more I think about it is our dreadful inactivity during the transfer window, I'm sure I'm not alone but it's really boiling my piss, how can we come up as champions having plenty of time to prepare etc etc balls that one up??

Answers a postcard please.............

Hey ho, I'll still be getting right behind the lads though no matter what

Up the City!!

The transfer window has a huge part to play in why we are where we are.

why only God knows how millions of pounds were offered for players and then followed up peanuts in comparison wage wise, it's completely done my Napa in, where was the the communication, it's just not excusable. The other thing which is annoying me which amnnoyed me last year too, why 3-5-2 every game when we don't have the quality in certain positions. Even last year we were found out a few times and in this league unless they play for us, (harsh, on Kodjia) we will get punished by quality.

As much as I disliked the style of play George Graham built a solid team that rarely conceded yet were clininical.

GJ was even vcapable of bringing up in players like Sno, 100 times the player pack is but protected the defence solidly, I think we have to play Ayling either back with Flint or in front of the defence, he's so waisted at RWB.

 

as for tiredness, I never remember going into a bout and thinking I tired, yep that's my excuse its ok to lose.If players are mentally other pysically unfit then fair enough, there's enough youth in Reid and Burns for a bit of a rest, we could do  a lot worse

losing is a horrible, easy habit and stupidity is doing the same things over and over again and thinking things will change for the positive, I've only seen 4/5 games thi season an and part from Boro away the rest was a horror show in large parts.

 

sort it arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrtttttttt

 

a