How long would you give Cotterill to turn it around?

[Colombo Robin]

Say we were to go down, who is there that would be better at getting us back up again? 

[Superjack]

I personally fear that the monumental cluster***k of the summer has set us on a trajectory where the most likely outcome is a bottom three finish. 

Defeatist?... probably, and of course it's early so hopefully that fear will prove unfounded. Unfortunately I can't honestly see the January transfer window, which we are already forced to clutch at as a solution, as providing any major rectification when valuations are likely to be inflated and our league position is likely to be a poor one.

No matter at whose door the blame lies for the summer, it has been and gone and left us in a situation where we will in all likelyhood be facing the whole season with a weaker squad than last seasons.

This is why I state the concern of the first paragraph and why I also feel that a change of management would be a huge gamble that may very well not change this seasons end result. Whether we like it or not, as a club we have to contemplate the 'unthinkable' and keep in mind a contingency plan for League One. 

If the best man to help us with that is already here, then perhaps he should be afforded the opportunity to avoid that scenario and keep us where, he after all, has got us.

That said, if the rumours of major disharmony surrounding that man have any truth, the aforementioned will prove irrelevant.

[Guest]

We have had the easy games.. Preston, MK, Brentford... 

Brentford is an interesting one. You say now that it was an easy game however rewind to when we played them and they were stronger by the tune of a £9m striker (who happened to score no less) and were roundly considered play-off candidates.

 

[Linkedarm wall]

Picking on the wrong bloke here I reckon. If someone has to be sacked, as that is the football way, Mr Burt to go first IMO. With regard to Cotts, yes you could argue lets change the system and perhaps we should. However players  need to be good enough, no matter what the system. Lets take the full backs if we were to play 4 at the back, which most seem to want.  Little/Ayling - Bryan/Williams, anyone think that any of these are good enough as out and out full backs in the Championship? I'm not so sure, Cotts is apparently even less sure!

[Major Isewater]

As long as it's close down the bottom and we are not cut adrift I think we would be mad to ditch SC, currently it's very tight and although we would prefer not to be bottom, we were so close to gaining an extra 4 points in the last 2 games which would have put us 17th and only 4 points behind the likes of QPR and Sheff Wed who spent a bomb this summer.  Yeh if my Aunty had balls she'd be my Uncle but it shows the fine margins, and the difference a couple of wins would make.  Yes we need to turn things around soon but at least we are scoring goals and not getting completely spanked!  Plus our away form isn't half bad really, especially having played some of the bigger teams.  So basically Keep the Faith, not my words, the words of Jon Bon Jovi!

We need to hold on to what we got .

[Major Isewater]

Picking on the wrong bloke here I reckon. If someone has to be sacked, as that is the football way, Mr Burt to go first IMO. With regard to Cotts, yes you could argue lets change the system and perhaps we should. However players  need to be good enough, no matter what the system. Lets take the full backs if we were to play 4 at the back, which most seem to want.  Little/Ayling - Bryan/Williams, anyone think that any of these are good enough as out and out full backs in the Championship? I'm not so sure, Cotts is apparently even less sure!

sack everyone. 

[Major Isewater]

I personally fear that the monumental cluster***k of the summer has set us on a trajectory where the most likely outcome is a bottom three finish. 

Defeatist?... probably, and of course it's early so hopefully that fear will prove unfounded. Unfortunately I can't honestly see the January transfer window, which we are already forced to clutch at as a solution, as providing any major rectification when valuations are likely to be inflated and our league position is likely to be a poor one.

No matter at whose door the blame lies for the summer, it has been and gone and left us in a situation where we will in all likelyhood be facing the whole season with a weaker squad than last seasons.

This is why I state the concern of the first paragraph and why I also feel that a change of management would be a huge gamble that may very well not change this seasons end result. Whether we like it or not, as a club we have to contemplate the 'unthinkable' and keep in mind a contingency plan for League One. 

If the best man to help us with that is already here, then perhaps he should be afforded the opportunity to avoid that scenario and keep us where, he after all, has got us.

That said, if the rumours of major disharmony surrounding that man have any truth, the aforementioned will prove irrelevant.

what if , quite simply, Cotts has given his all and just can't do it any more ?

[BCFC_Dan]

Statistically, we're not that far off being OK.

If you look at some of the charts on this site: http://experimental361.com/ you can see that in the overall picture, we're not desperately bad, though definitely edging towards the bad quadrants, whilst in a number of the game timelines we've created chances to warrant winning the game but haven't.

Obviously statistics don't tell the whole story and the fact of the matter is we've only won one game all season, but they suggest that it would only take a small improvement to turn performances (again, based on the stats on that site; I haven't seen a match this season myself so we might just be dreadful) into results.

An example of this happening is Reading. They started the season pretty poorly but were one of the best performers according to the statistics on that site. Then they suddenly started turning their dominance into results and flew up the table. We're not as dominant statistically as they were but we are better than our points tally suggests.

Interestingly (perhaps), if you look at the "E ratings" section it suggests that, in terms of "expected goals", we were actually quite a bit weaker than Preston and MK Dons. To my mind that means one of two things: either we massively overachieved last season and have regressed this season, or the statistical model is flawed. It could be either, frankly.

[SecretSam]

Although I've been critical of Steve recently he has built up a bank of goodwill with me that makes me opt for him for at least this season. 

Chopping and changing managers has never benefited us. Or anyone else much.

Exactly.  There's hardly a queue of more accomplished or more qualified replacements out there, anyway, unless Carlo Ancelotti fancies moving to BS3

[WhistleHappy]

Still time for Cotts & co to perform a few three-point turnarounds.. Madness to even contemplate getting shot of a very good driver at this junction. (that'd be like throwing the baby out with the bath water)

Sacking would be a panic tactic leaving us up a creek without a paddle ....

Cotts is OK, he will turn this thing around (not his fault 'head office' tried filling the tank with cheap petrol) sack him now at your peril, and we'll soon find out that we've got 'n where we cas'nt back 'n ....

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AnKjwOLiBTg  

When the going gets tough, supporters need to support...

Rally round, backs against the wall stuff - that's when we come out fighting - that's when   we're at our best and thats when we BCFC stop being the underdogs... & Cotts is just the passionate leader we need to do just that - don't sack him back him.

[ChippenhamRed]

Just looking at the votes.  It's clear there is no overall consensus amongst the fans about what we should do, should we continue to struggle.  However the two spikes suggest that, broadly speaking, as fans we fall into two groups - act early, or don't act at all, which I suppose is what you would expect.  The large number of people who say Cotterill has until the end of November does suggest the next 6-7 weeks will be crucial for Cotts in terms of hanging onto the fan approval that he evidently still has at this point (with only 3% saying we should ditch him now).

It's also quite refreshing in my opinion to see a large number of fans willing to stick with Cotts even if the worst were to happen - although I can't help but wonder how many would still have that goodwill towards him by the latter stages of the season.

I'll say once again for the record that I meant this purely as a hypothetical exercise to gauge the patience of the fanbase, with no intention at all to suggest Cotterill should go.

[spudski]

Still time for Cotts & co to perform a few three-point turnarounds.. Madness to even contemplate getting shot of a very good driver at this junction. (that'd be like throwing the baby out with the bath water)

Sacking would be a panic tactic leaving us up a creek without a paddle ....

Cotts is OK, he will turn this thing around (not his fault 'head office' tried filling the tank with cheap petrol) sack him now at your peril, and we'll soon find out that we've got 'n where we cas'nt back 'n ....

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AnKjwOLiBTg  

When the going gets tough, supporters need to support...

Rally round, backs against the wall stuff - that's when we come out fighting - that's when   we're at our best and thats when we BCFC stop being the underdogs... & Cotts is just the passionate leader we need to do just that - don't sack him back him.

That's all very well...but we don't really know who was at fault for the transfer debacle this summer....you hear rumours...but it's hard to really understand what went wrong.

Some think wages....some think SC and Burt looked in the wrong places....plus a multitude of other anomalies.

For me....it's our lack of depth and quality and injuries, not necessarily purely formation that has been our undoing....again down to lack of quality additions in the right places.

Whoevers fault it is...if we are still at the bottom in November he'll be sacked....regardless of whether it's fault or not.

There is also another way of looking at it...if SC was to keep us afloat and do the same again next season...but showed no progress....would people still want him here?

Is he the man to consolidate...or the man for progression?

Whether he stays or not....you can guarantee if we are still 'consolidating' in a couple seasons time showing no progress....then he'd be replaced anyway.

So does it really matter when he goes?

[havanatopia]

My opinion...I think he will be gone by the end of October. 

". to be a disaster of a season for us.

So if he goes by the end of October it will still be a disaster of a season?

Not trying to be smart here but if he stays it will still be a disaster of a season then?

Where is the benefit of a change in other words?

[spudski]

Statistically, we're not that far off being OK.

If you look at some of the charts on this site: http://experimental361.com/ you can see that in the overall picture, we're not desperately bad, though definitely edging towards the bad quadrants, whilst in a number of the game timelines we've created chances to warrant winning the game but haven't.

Obviously statistics don't tell the whole story and the fact of the matter is we've only won one game all season, but they suggest that it would only take a small improvement to turn performances (again, based on the stats on that site; I haven't seen a match this season myself so we might just be dreadful) into results.

An example of this happening is Reading. They started the season pretty poorly but were one of the best performers according to the statistics on that site. Then they suddenly started turning their dominance into results and flew up the table. We're not as dominant statistically as they were but we are better than our points tally suggests.

Interestingly (perhaps), if you look at the "E ratings" section it suggests that, in terms of "expected goals", we were actually quite a bit weaker than Preston and MK Dons. To my mind that means one of two things: either we massively overachieved last season and have regressed this season, or the statistical model is flawed. It could be either, frankly.

Great reading that...thanks for sharing fella. On that evidence...I think we are stuffed against Forest.

Plus...how well is Kodijia doing! clinical...few chances but quiet a lot taken.

Can see our defence being over run against Forest going by those charts.

[Andy082005]

So if he goes by the end of October it will still be a disaster of a season?

Not trying to be smart here but if he stays it will still be a disaster of a season then?

Where is the benefit of a change in other words?

I dont see a benefit of change as I have zero faith that the board we have in charge can establish the club at this level.

I think he will get sacked and I have no faith that the board will get the next appointment right 

[Guest]

That's all very well...but we don't really know who was at fault for the transfer debacle this summer....you hear rumours...but it's hard to really understand what went wrong.

Some think wages....some think SC and Burt looked in the wrong places....plus a multitude of other anomalies.

For me....it's our lack of depth and quality and injuries, not necessarily purely formation that has been our undoing....again down to lack of quality additions in the right places.

Whoevers fault it is...if we are still at the bottom in November he'll be sacked....regardless of whether it's fault or not.

There is also another way of looking at it...if SC was to keep us afloat and do the same again next season...but showed no progress....would people still want him here?

Is he the man to consolidate...or the man for progression?

Whether he stays or not....you can guarantee if we are still 'consolidating' in a couple seasons time showing no progress....then he'd be replaced anyway.

So does it really matter when he goes?

I think it does matter at very least for presentational reasons.

I think it would do our reputation no bad in the world of football if we gave a manager a bit of breathing room. We really did try to do so with SOD but even then it was a short term appointment. After GJ we were on a dreadful run but we were an attractive proposition. I don't think that solely down to us reaching the play offs in recent history (although I wouldn't for one minute suggest that had nothing to do with it), but I think stability was also the words on people's lips at the time. GJ was one of the longest serving managers at the time in England and I'm sure that encourages a higher calibre of candidates. Since then our chairman has got richer, our ground has got better and I'd say our squad is more exciting in terms of potential.

As for SC I do trust his abilities in this League and I think yes he could be the man for both consolidation and progression, but I wouldn't argue with anyone who says otherwise seeing as it's simply a subjective opinion.

[Curr Avon]

Forget Steve Cotterill. Sean O'Driscoll really turned things around at Bristol City. When SOD joined we were hopeless and desperate and when he left we were desperate and hopeless.

[Frenchay Red]

Forget Steve Cotterill. Sean O'Driscoll really turned things around at Bristol City. When SOD joined we were hopeless and desperate and when he left we were desperate and hopeless.

Certainly got his name in the record book

[RedM]

For the record I don't want him to be either sacked or for him to walk. I think if another club came in for him I'd be unhappy too.

i do want him to at least try a few options, make earlier subs for example. Set us up like the Home team at Ashton Gate, not like a desperate away team clinging on to a point. I do want him to have all the help and support and £££ available for him if needed too. 

[Major Isewater]

For the record I don't want him to be either sacked or for him to walk. I think if another club came in for him I'd be unhappy too.

i do want him to at least try a few options, make earlier subs for example. Set us up like the Home team at Ashton Gate, not like a desperate away team clinging on to a point. I do want him to have all the help and support and £££ available for him if needed too. 

Just ask yourself Em how many 'Gingers ' has he signed ? 

Enough ? Not too many ? 

And on the other hand , how many has he got rid of ?

Is this  man worthy of your support ?

 

just sayin' like . 

[Major Isewater]

Certainly got his name in the record book

My actor  son wanted his name up in lights in theatres on Broadway , so we called him ' Exit ' .

[Guest]

it is indeed and they also sacked their manager. 

Yep, and they used all 8 games worth of stats to make a sensible decision like that

You're quite right, and perhaps indicative of the slide they undertook, but again perhaps it shows the difference a £9m striker can make to a club's fortunes?

[REDOXO]

SL has confidence in SC.

As is obvious now we went after players that were simply not prepared to come and play for us regardless of what was on offer as it would have been more risk than they were prepared for.

How much that can be pinned on the manager I am not clear, but certainly there is a share of 'blame' between him and the BoD.

We need to galvanise the current squad and carefully pick our next loan...Wilbo is less effective than last year right as such I would look toward Wes or Kieron to start... 

Injuries to Mark Little and Korey Smith and the suspension of Freeman have not helped and our inability to convert a higher % of chances has contributed to a lack of confidence in the players we can get a result and as such our defence has been under pressure...

I am still confident we can compete and to be frank the two players mentioned should get more game time

COYR

 

[spudski]

SL has confidence in SC.

As is obvious now we went after players that were simply not prepared to come and play for us regardless of what was on offer as it would have been more risk than they were prepared for.

How much that can be pinned on the manager I am not clear, but certainly there is a share of 'blame' between him and the BoD.

We need to galvanise the current squad and carefully pick our next loan...Wilbo is less effective than last year right as such I would look toward Wes or Kieron to start... 

Injuries to Mark Little and Korey Smith and the suspension of Freeman have not helped and our inability to convert a higher % of chances has contributed to a lack of confidence in the players we can get a result and as such our defence has been under pressure...

I am still confident we can compete and to be frank the two players mentioned should get more game time

COYR

 

With respect, it doesn't work like that.

Of course the board will provide money for transfers and wages, but it's still up to the manager to convince the player to come here.

Gray spoke about how impressed he was with the Burnley manager.

The manager still has to provide results, regardless of how much money they have been given.

Look at Brendan Rogers and various other managers who have been sacked after being given endless amounts of money.

The Board aren't going to not a give a manager any money, and say we haven't got confidence in you, but keep him on are they?

[Kingswood Robin]

If he's responsible for the failure to strengthen properly in the summer then I'd expect him to walking soon. I don't think he is responsible. Give the bloke a chance with some proper Championship money.

I've read a lot about changing formation, rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic I'm afraid. No formation change would have helped us against the likes of Reading, we were outclassed everywhere. The playing staff simply isn't good enough.

For the moment we're stuffed, but I'd rather see us try and score some goals with an attacking formation. If we go back to last few terrible seasons in the Championship, playing with one up front at home and back line full of loan signings, I think I'll find something else better to do with my Saturday afternoons.

[Guest]

How long is a piece of string? we should cut SC/SL and indeed most of the players some slack; have we already forgotten what THEY DID to get us here.

Sick to death of reading so many fans being on a downer with the fore-mentioned, as I see it many of the games played could have gone our way and may well do next time; way to early for this sort of time limit thread.

[spudski]

How long is a piece of string? we should cut SC/SL and indeed most of the players some slack; have we already forgotten what THEY DID to get us here.

Sick to death of reading so many fans being on a downer with the fore-mentioned, as I see it many of the games played could have gone our way and may well do next time; way to early for this sort of time limit thread.

With respect Old boy...I think many haven't forgotten what SL and whoever was working for him, did, to get us in the mess we had to get out of.

Many years of mistake after mistake....we always take one step forward and two back.

Fans are seeing all the good work done last season, undone this, by an abysmal recruitment policy.

Same old story...and people are getting pissed off with it.

It doesn't matter what manager comes here...it's the same old story...and there is only one constant.

[Guest]

With respect Old boy...I think many haven't forgotten what SL and whoever was working for him, did, to get us in the mess we had to get out of.

Many years of mistake after mistake....we always take one step forward and two back.

Fans are seeing all the good work done last season, undone this, by an abysmal recruitment policy.

Same old story...and people are getting pissed off with it.

It doesn't matter what manager comes here...it's the same old story...and there is only one constant.

So what do we do kick out SL then? crazy thought, more likely other way around; that would leave us well up that creek; I`m sure the gas would welcome him though;

As said before this seasons just hardly begun, I`m sure those that matter are well aware of the situation and his massive investments in stands etc will not be money down the drain and when/if it comes down to it he will act and do whatever he needs to do.

[spudski]

So what do we do kick out SL then? crazy thought, more likely other way around; that would leave us well up that creek; I`m sure the gas would welcome him though;

As said before this seasons just hardly begun, I`m sure those that matter are well aware of the situation and his massive investments in stands etc will not be money down the drain and when/if it comes down to it he will act and do whatever he needs to do.

I can only go on past history...SL fills me with no confidence at all football wise.

We're stuck with him...you can throw all the money around and have good intentions, and be a thoroughly nice bloke....but his track record here 'Football wise' is dire, when you consider how much he's invested in time and money.

Poor decision making is a theme each season...bar a couple.

This year it's the recruitment....which will haunt us.

Can't see us prospering under him, until he finds a way of getting the best advice.

[Guest]

@spudski, so is KB the/a problem in your eyes if SL is not getting the best advice? 

Personally I believe there's been a lot of presumption about KB's involvement, his role and his successes without much substance... But then again I admit I don't go to FP, Q&A etc so it could be total ignorance from my own lack of participation. 

I'm not suggesting he lacks competence, just fielding a question to which I genuinely have no idea as to the answer.