Homophobia in football

[RumRed]

Posted this in another thread, but probably the wrong one.

I maybe getting my knickers in a twist over nothing but is this homophobia thing running 35 years behind racism? I know everything is probably a light hearted 'joke' but  you'd get called out for casual racism on this forum.  I'd also doubt many here would be stupid enough to be even 'casually' racist on a public forum but the homophobic 'jokes' seem to be tolerated.

Yet this is the same forum that has said in the past that a player should 'come out' if they were gay because who cares?

Well if you don't care don't take the cheap laugh and let's be better than that.

I'll get off my very high horse now, but seriously in ten years (hopefully sooner) some of these 'jokes' will be as embarrassing as making monkey noises at a black player in the 70's.

You can of course do as you wish.

[gl1]

As a gay supporter (male) I would just like to add that gay banter does not generally offend as long as its intended as funny and not designed to intimidate anyone. Example the 'does your boyfriend know youre here?' chant directed at Brighton fans I find to be funny, as everyone should know by now the gay capital of Britain is Brighton, whereas pointing at a player and shouting something along the lines of 'you gay bas****d I would find offensive.

Most, if not all of the gay people I know have a very healthy humour and are the first to send each other up. This is not like white guys using the N word infront of a black guy. As for banter on forums, as long as its intended to be funny light and not offensive to me, my friends or my sexual group, i really couldnt care.

By the way, didnt Basso have a fantastic bum?

[Fordy62]

As a gay supporter (male) I would just like to add that gay banter does not generally offend as long as its intended as funny and not designed to intimidate anyone. Example the 'does your boyfriend know youre here?' chant directed at Brighton fans I find to be funny, as everyone should know by now the gay capital of Britain is Brighton, whereas pointing at a player and shouting something along the lines of 'you gay bas****d I would find offensive.

Most, if not all of the gay people I know have a very healthy humour and are the first to send each other up. This is not like white guys using the N word infront of a black guy. As for banter on forums, as long as its intended to be funny light and not offensive to me, my friends or my sexual group, i really couldnt care.

By the way, didnt Basso have a fantastic bum?

I've got a problem with this. Why on earth would you choose to right align your text?

[sglosbcfc]

I've got a problem with this. Why on earth would you choose to right align your text?

if you don't align your text it can look bent.

[Major Isewater]

As a gay supporter (male) I would just like to add that gay banter does not generally offend as long as its intended as funny and not designed to intimidate anyone. Example the 'does your boyfriend know youre here?' chant directed at Brighton fans I find to be funny, as everyone should know by now the gay capital of Britain is Brighton, whereas pointing at a player and shouting something along the lines of 'you gay bas****d I would find offensive.

Most, if not all of the gay people I know have a very healthy humour and are the first to send each other up. This is not like white guys using the N word infront of a black guy. As for banter on forums, as long as its intended to be funny light and not offensive to me, my friends or my sexual group, i really couldnt care.

By the way, didnt Basso have a fantastic bum?

How very dare you accepting the banter when others are being offended on your behalf.

[And Its Smith]

I don't recall a single homophobic song or comment on Tuesday.  Perhaps I missed something but very pleasing if  indeed we didn't sing anything.  

[Super]

Jeez don't get your knickers in a twist.

[Phileas Fogg]

Jeez don't get your knickers in a twist.

Nothing wrong with the OP. Reasonable comment and something lots agree with.

It is tiresome to see the same old gay jokes peddled out every time we play Brighton, same posters too - some of which, I'd wager, are still uneasy with the concept of homosexuals and probably use terms like 'poof' in everyday life. I've seen posts of this nature on here by one of the perpetrators using dated terms and written with a homophobic slant.

Kudos to you, gl1, a great response written in good humour.

[Wanderingred]

Meh. I've got no problem with silly songs like "does your boyfriend know you're here". Its more mocking a regional stereotype rather than homosexuals.

Anything directed an individual though, or any hate filled chants or words such as "poof" or "faggot" and i'd expect the same action to be taken as if they'd made a racist comment/chant. It is absolutely just as bad and should not be tolerated in the 21st century.

[Wanderingred]

On another note, I recall a thread from about 10 years ago discussing homophobic chants just before a match vs Brighton (may have even been the playoff final!) Some of the bile spouted then was unbelievable... I recall one person saying (and I quote) that "gays deserve to be mocked for having such a disgusting lifestyle".

The difference in responses on threads now show that we've come a long way, just as we have with the race issue.

[Michri]

The decline of homophobia both in and out of football has certainly lagged behind that of racism. I've noticed on a couple of occasions sat in the Dolman the use of the word "faggot", only nowadays this is met with an eerie silence of disapproval more than anything else.

[Xiled]

The difference in responses on threads now show that we've come a long way, just as we have with the race issue.

The decline of homophobia both in and out of football has certainly lagged behind that of racism. I've noticed on a couple of occasions sat in the Dolman the use of the word "faggot", only nowadays this is met with an eerie silence of disapproval more than anything else.

Live and let live.

I really hope to see a day where racism and homophobia are weird concepts that kids have to learn about in history lessons but have no experience of themselves.

Unfortunately, football fans aren't always the most progressive members of society and we're likely to see and hear abuse in football grounds long after it's become totally unacceptable in wider society.

[spudski]

Posted this in another thread, but probably the wrong one.

I maybe getting my knickers in a twist over nothing but is this homophobia thing running 35 years behind racism? I know everything is probably a light hearted 'joke' but  you'd get called out for casual racism on this forum.  I'd also doubt many here would be stupid enough to be even 'casually' racist on a public forum but the homophobic 'jokes' seem to be tolerated.

Yet this is the same forum that has said in the past that a player should 'come out' if they were gay because who cares?

Well if you don't care don't take the cheap laugh and let's be better than that.

I'll get off my very high horse now, but seriously in ten years (hopefully sooner) some of these 'jokes' will be as embarrassing as making monkey noises at a black player in the 70's.

You can of course do as you wish.

Like anything in life....why can't we laugh at our differences?

As long as it's not said in malice or hatred, then I don't see the problem.

You have openly gay 'celebrities' and comedians....'mincing' about and putting 'double entendre' on what seems nearly every entertainment programme. Yet they ban Benny Hill....

You have comedians making jokes about their race, colour and religion.

You have comedians making jokes about being fat.

You have girls wanting to be 'Sex symbols'.

You have a white politician saying Golliwogs are a throwback to a racist past.....then a Black Activist and tv commentator coming out and saying there is nothing wrong with them.

With respect....you maybe gay.....but if not, why would you feel the need to feel offended unless things were said in malice or hatred?

We are told, we can't say this, can't say that....but unless it's hurtful what is the problem? Lets laugh at ourselves and stop being so serious.

Having travelled pretty much a lot of the world, I would say Britain is one of the least racist and homophobic places on the planet.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Like anything in life....why can't we laugh at our differences?

As long as it's not said in malice or hatred, then I don't see the problem.

You have openly gay 'celebrities' and comedians....'mincing' about and putting 'double entendre' on what seems nearly every entertainment programme. Yet they ban Benny Hill....

You have comedians making jokes about their race, colour and religion.

You have comedians making jokes about being fat.

You have girls wanting to be 'Sex symbols'.

You have a white politician saying Golliwogs are a throwback to a racist past.....then a Black Activist and tv commentator coming out and saying there is nothing wrong with them.

With respect....you maybe gay.....but if not, why would you feel the need to feel offended unless things were said in malice or hatred?

We are told, we can't say this, can't say that....but unless it's hurtful what is the problem? Lets laugh at ourselves and stop being so serious.

Having travelled pretty much a lot of the world, I would say Britain is one of the least racist and homophobic places on the planet.

My favourite post of yours ever.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Like anything in life....why can't we laugh at our differences?

As long as it's not said in malice or hatred, then I don't see the problem.

You have openly gay 'celebrities' and comedians....'mincing' about and putting 'double entendre' on what seems nearly every entertainment programme. Yet they ban Benny Hill....

You have comedians making jokes about their race, colour and religion.

You have comedians making jokes about being fat.

You have girls wanting to be 'Sex symbols'.

You have a white politician saying Golliwogs are a throwback to a racist past.....then a Black Activist and tv commentator coming out and saying there is nothing wrong with them.

With respect....you maybe gay.....but if not, why would you feel the need to feel offended unless things were said in malice or hatred?

We are told, we can't say this, can't say that....but unless it's hurtful what is the problem? Lets laugh at ourselves and stop being so serious.

Having travelled pretty much a lot of the world, I would say Britain is one of the least racist and homophobic places on the planet.

Agree with this. I actually find gay people to have some the best sense of humour' out of most people I've encountered. Mostly they don't take themselves too seriously and can have a laugh at themselves and the world. Agree too that the UK doesn't really have a homophobia problem. Would be interesting though, would an openly gay prime minister ever be elected?

My point was that some people, and posters on here, make jokes and use terms like "fag" or "poof" and I'm pretty sure they mean it hurtfully. For whatever reason, perhaps they are of the older generation, they are uncomfortable with homosexuals and use language they are used to.

[ten minutes of rough]

What pi$$ed me off Tuesday were the comments regarding the Brighton fans, the endless cheap jibes on here in relation to male intercourse if you will. How backward is that? Of course we area tolerant  society, but the few morons that taint this picture with such poor 'jokes' leaves me to think they are still clinging on to a time gone by Carry On  Whatever ... Spud paints a picture that it doesn't exist, we are non racist, non homophobic, let's laugh at each other society, that 'toke' celeb gays mince and with their double entendre everything is fine 'cus look they can laugh at themselves too!!!  

 

Well I bet it's NOT for thousands who struggle with their sexuality colour or whatever, Britain is racist, and still very intolerant of a lot of groups that don't fill the white straight genre. 

[M.D]

I was offended the other day in the chat room during a match, somebody asked where everybody is from and when I replied Brighton, a few of them came out with the gay jibes just because of the city I live in and thats from my fellow fans!

Some jokes I do find funny but some not so and I agree that if I said I was living in Brixton would I have got the same comments but racial?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Like anything in life....why can't we laugh at our differences?

As long as it's not said in malice or hatred, then I don't see the problem.

You have openly gay 'celebrities' and comedians....'mincing' about and putting 'double entendre' on what seems nearly every entertainment programme. Yet they ban Benny Hill....

You have comedians making jokes about their race, colour and religion.

You have comedians making jokes about being fat.

You have girls wanting to be 'Sex symbols'.

You have a white politician saying Golliwogs are a throwback to a racist past.....then a Black Activist and tv commentator coming out and saying there is nothing wrong with them.

With respect....you maybe gay.....but if not, why would you feel the need to feel offended unless things were said in malice or hatred?

We are told, we can't say this, can't say that....but unless it's hurtful what is the problem? Lets laugh at ourselves and stop being so serious.

Having travelled pretty much a lot of the world, I would say Britain is one of the least racist and homophobic places on the planet.

Unfortunately, it tends to be the majority that laughs at the minority, so it is all about oppression.  Can't remember the last time anyone laughed at someone who was heterosexual, or implied that someone was less than equal because they were heterosexual or white or male. 

[Red-Robbo]

Unfortunately, it tends to be the majority that laughs at the minority, so it is all about oppression.  Can't remember the last time anyone laughed at someone who was heterosexual, or implied that someone was less than equal because they were heterosexual or white or male. 

 

As a leading pedant, I feel I should point out that women are not a minority...

[Coxy27]

 

as a leading pedant, I feel I should point out that women are not a minority...

*pedantry* There's more men than women globally, and also in the UK, so technically, they are?

[Red-Robbo]

*pedantry* There's more men than women globally, and also in the UK, so technically, they are?

No, there are more women then men in the UK. 

A million more women than men. 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/population-and-household-estimates-for-the-united-kingdom/stb-2011-census--population-estimates-for-the-united-kingdom.html

Fill your boots, lads - providing you like very old women and aren't gay.

[Coxy27]

No, there are more women then men in the UK. 

A million more women than men. 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/population-and-household-estimates-for-the-united-kingdom/stb-2011-census--population-estimates-for-the-united-kingdom.html

Fill your boots, lads - providing you like very old women and aren't gay.

That's odd, wikipedia suggests otherwise. Anyway, great news!

[REDOXO]

Chants about colour have become offensive, however chants about race seem to still be ok...

City fans routinely chant about being Welsh, Cardiff fans routinely chant about being English....Southerners about northerners about southerners, English about Germans French Italians et al on the other extreme Red Star Belgrade fans made a  large portion of para military groups during the Balkan wars and Lazio fans would routinely sing about Arkan and so on!

Football is tribal (you get under your rivals skin), its part of the support of the game in most circumstances....

The Gay stuff, I don't know anyone that actually takes it seriously and unfortunately most of us have some subjects that we need to have a thick skin about, if you are gay, for now at least, Gay supporters are fully aware that they may have to cock a deafun from time to time

 

 

[Red-Robbo]

Chants about colour have become offensive, however chants about race seem to still be ok...

City fans routinely chant about being Welsh, Cardiff fans routinely chant about being English....Southerners about northerners about southerners, English about Germans French Italians et al on the other extreme Red Star Belgrade fans made a  large portion of para military groups during the Balkan wars and Lazio fans would routinely sing about Arkan and so on!

Football is tribal (you get under your rivals skin), its part of the support of the game in most circumstances....

The Gay stuff, I don't know anyone that actually takes it seriously and unfortunately most of us have some subjects that we need to have a thick skin about, if you are gay, for now at least, Gay supporters are fully aware that they may have to cock a deafun from time to time

 

 

To avoid offending anyone, in no way will I be commenting on the phraseology used above. ;-)

 

 

Anyway to address the question seriously, it's a shame that only one professional footballer has felt able to come out in the UK. As black players became more commonplace, so racist chanting declined in England. If you look up to someone, you can hardly treat them as inferior. If fans knew how many of the sports people they idolise are gay, then that prejudice too would fade away. Which would be a good thing for society at large.

[Ashtonboy]

To avoid offending anyone, in no way will I be commenting on the phraseology used above. ;-)

 

 

Anyway to address the question seriously, it's a shame that only one professional footballer has felt able to come out in the UK. As black players became more commonplace, so racist chanting declined in England. If you look up to someone, you can hardly treat them as inferior. If fans knew how many of the sports people they idolise are gay, then that prejudice too would fade away. Which would be a good thing for society at large.

It is nobodies business but their own. Its 2015 for gods sake. Why should anyone know the sexual preferences of any player?  I just don't understand why I or anybody else should have this information, they are footballers, good, bad and mostly average. That's all we need to know.

[Red-Robbo]

It is nobodies business but their own. Its 2015 for gods sake. Why should anyone know the sexual preferences of any player?  I just don't understand why I or anybody else should have this information, they are footballers, good, bad and mostly average. That's all we need to know.

I agree, but the fact that sports people feel they have to hide their sexuality  - for reasons that are entirely understandable - perpetuates the idea in the minds of bigots that all homosexuals are effeminate and camp.

[The Gasbuster]

No, there are more women then men in the UK. 

A million more women than men. 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/population-and-household-estimates-for-the-united-kingdom/stb-2011-census--population-estimates-for-the-united-kingdom.html

Fill your boots, lads - providing you like very old women and aren't gay.

Interesting stat Robbo !

Further up this thread, one poster wrote that minorities are oppressed. As the male species appears to be the minority, does this make us "oppressed" ?

Does this mean we can take the piss out of the majority female species, without being called "sexist" or "misogynist" ?

[Red-Robbo]

Interesting stat Robbo !

Further up this thread, one poster wrote that minorities are oppressed. As the male species appears to be the minority, does this make us "oppressed" ?

Does this mean we can take the piss out of the majority female species, without being called "sexist" or "misogynist" ?

I could name you a couple of guys I know who are very much "oppressed". But I won't post their names here or they'll receive the old henpecking-to-death treatment from their other halves. 

[Numero Uno]

What pi$$ed me off Tuesday were the comments regarding the Brighton fans, the endless cheap jibes on here in relation to male intercourse if you will. How backward is that? Of course we area tolerant  society, but the few morons that taint this picture with such poor 'jokes' leaves me to think they are still clinging on to a time gone by Carry On  Whatever ... Spud paints a picture that it doesn't exist, we are non racist, non homophobic, let's laugh at each other society, that 'toke' celeb gays mince and with their double entendre everything is fine 'cus look they can laugh at themselves too!!!  

 

Well I bet it's NOT for thousands who struggle with their sexuality colour or whatever, Britain is racist, and still very intolerant of a lot of groups that don't fill the white straight genre. 

What, all of us?

Some people genuinely struggle with the colour, sexuality whatever it may be and others have a chip on their shoulder because of it. And plenty of others seek every opportunity get offended on other people's behalf in just the same way as a minority of people choose to offend others because of their differences. It's called life and represents a cross section of society.

And whether you like it or not the cross section of society in "Racist and Homophobic Britain", as you believe it to be, is a lot more tolerant than it was 30 years ago and will be more tolerant again in 30 years time. Probably doesn't suit your agenda but hey ho.

Great post gl1 by the way.

[Redrobbin]

We choose words to describe these homophob's , racists, as morons idiots, even scum. 

Surely this is also derogatory?