Homophobia in football

[BUTOR]

We choose words to describe these homophob's , racists, as morons idiots, even scum. 

Surely this is also derogatory?

ok, highly uneducated, ******* w*nkers  

[Redrobbin]

ok, highly uneducated, ******* w*nkers  

Isn't that offensive to large parts of world  through their lesser developed  infrastructure have not the resources in place to offer a state funded educational system. So many children grow  into adulthood with no education whatsoever. 

Oh and the entire male ( and female, let's not be sexist here) population on earth. 

 

[ten minutes of rough]

What, all of us?

Some people genuinely struggle with the colour, sexuality whatever it may be and others have a chip on their shoulder because of it. And plenty of others seek every opportunity get offended on other people's behalf in just the same way as a minority of people choose to offend others because of their differences. It's called life and represents a cross section of society.

And whether you like it or not the cross section of society in "Racist and Homophobic Britain", as you believe it to be, is a lot more tolerant than it was 30 years ago and will be more tolerant again in 30 years time. Probably doesn't suit your agenda but hey ho.

Great post gl1 by the way.

What agenda? It's an observation of what we are like as a nation, a large majority of the public are racist/ homophobic I am afraid, nothing new in that, but the civil thing to do is not make comment about race or sexuality. If I was to prefer a white family move next door as opposed to Asian, I am racist, if I condemn a gay person, I am homophobic, to say or do nothing than I am tolerant. To condemn Brighton folk en mass and to make jokes as Big Tone did is  pathetic.

But hey ho it's a footie forum and as such we can all have a laugh , cus we are footie fans and decency and intelligence is not required.

Odd innit?

[Aizoon]

We choose words to describe these homophob's , racists, as morons idiots, even scum. 

Surely this is also derogatory?

And intentionally so. I'm pretty down on mass murderers - does that mean I'm prejudiced?

[Guest]

What agenda? It's an observation of what we are like as a nation, a large majority of the public are racist/ homophobic I am afraid, nothing new in that, but the civil thing to do is not make comment about race or sexuality. If I was to prefer a white family move next door as opposed to Asian, I am racist, if I condemn a gay person, I am homophobic, to say or do nothing than I am tolerant. To condemn Brighton folk en mass and to make jokes as Big Tone did is  pathetic.

But hey ho it's a footie forum and as such we can all have a laugh , cus we are footie fans and decency and intelligence is not required.

Odd innit?

What you've written; yes. That's not the cross section of Britain I see. Far from it. And probably very few were 'condemning Brighton folk'. It's intended as humour and whether it tickles your funny bone or not - it doesn't mine - it's a hell of a lot to suggest it's intended as a slur. 

[BigTone]

 

By the way, didnt Basso have a fantastic bum?

Nothing like that of my beloved Dolls.  Her's is just a classic work of art and should be the subject of a sculpture at Ashton Gate for future generations to admire.

[spudski]

This should lighten things up :-)

 

 

[BigTone]

This should lighten things up :-)

 

 

Love it !!  I bet he doesn't mince his words either ........................ oops sorry

[gl1]

I'm not sure why footballers who happen to be gay should out themselves as 'a gay footballer'. I mean I don't announce myself as I enter the Atyeo each game as 'here comes the gay supporter and his boyfriend'. Nor did when I started my last job did I go around shaking hands, and saying 'hi, nice to meet you, I'm gay by the way'. If relationships came up in conversation, i was honest in saying my partners name was John, and then moved on. No one cared, at least not to my face, and if they want to hate me behind my back, well good for them, I won't lose sleep.

I suppose when sports people 'come out' they do so in the hope of promoting tolerance and understanding and thats great and sports especially football does lag behind in high profile gay people when compared to the arts, but to suggest the game itself his homophobic is impossible to judge based upon how many gay players there are. Football fans can still be racist, even if their team has black players so one of our players coming out as gay will not necessarily help a homophobic fan. I believe open discussions on forums like this will likely do just as well. Us gay folk are more or less even now, we can get married now (like I have) enjoy equal rights in employment and common law, and to be honest chants about opposing fans being gay don't even figure on my radar.

if you want to come up and chat about this I'm usually at the back of the Atyeo, but I doubt you'll spot me, I look much the same as you do.

 

[BigTone]

 I won't lose sleep.

 

 

And no reason why you should. Whatever floats your boat as they say and good luck to you.

I enjoy a bit of banter but nothing I say is said with an ounce of malice as life is frankly far too short to worry

[BigTone]

 

if you want to come up and chat about this I'm usually at the back of the Atyeo, but I doubt you'll spot me, I look much the same as you do.

 

I've seen you.  You have the 2 pink seats in Row W

[gl1]

I've seen you.  You have the 2 pink seats in Row W

 

Thats us, the ones with the fairy lights wrapped around them.

[RumRed]

A good and reasoned debate, good work OTIB.  Interesting views from all.    Made a change from all the Cotts in or out threads!

[I am the mole]

Otib just got deep! (Insert your own boyfriend/girlfriend/sheep joke here) spending on who you are!!

having travelled the world a bit our country is one of if not the most tolerant there is, that's not to say their isn't morons who are generally the least intelligent in our society and football does seem to be their sport of choice so we will see a bit of chanting now and then (as disgraceful as it may be) it's on the decline!

eastern Europe, most of Africa and the Middle East now that's real problem area's and will be for quite some time it's not even meant as funny banter there it's pure hatred! 

Im proud to be British/English!

[BigTone]

I've seen you.  You have the 2 pink seats in Row W

 

Thats us, the ones with the fairy lights wrapped around them.

And the little cocktail style parasols sticking out the top ?

[Dollymarie]

I was offended the other day in the chat room during a match, somebody asked where everybody is from and when I replied Brighton, a few of them came out with the gay jibes just because of the city I live in and thats from my fellow fans!

Some jokes I do find funny but some not so and I agree that if I said I was living in Brixton would I have got the same comments but racial?

Considering I'm in the chatroom during every away game, I'd love to know when this happened, as it hasn't happened when I've been in there, and can't actually see it myself.  If it did then you should have reported it via the usual channels.

[YorkshireSection]

Posted this in another thread, but probably the wrong one.

I maybe getting my knickers in a twist over nothing but is this homophobia thing running 35 years behind racism? I know everything is probably a light hearted 'joke' but  you'd get called out for casual racism on this forum.  I'd also doubt many here would be stupid enough to be even 'casually' racist on a public forum but the homophobic 'jokes' seem to be tolerated.

Yet this is the same forum that has said in the past that a player should 'come out' if they were gay because who cares?

Well if you don't care don't take the cheap laugh and let's be better than that.

I'll get off my very high horse now, but seriously in ten years (hopefully sooner) some of these 'jokes' will be as embarrassing as making monkey noises at a black player in the 70's.

You can of course do as you wish.

I think the most homophobic group associated to football are the players.

The vast amount of football fans I'vet met don't have a problem who are supporters are,it's 2015 FFS

[One Team In Keynsham]

Otib just got deep! (Insert your own boyfriend/girlfriend/sheep joke here) spending on who you are!!

having travelled the world a bit our country is one of if not the most tolerant there is, that's not to say their isn't morons who are generally the least intelligent in our society and football does seem to be their sport of choice so we will see a bit of chanting now and then (as disgraceful as it may be) it's on the decline!

eastern Europe, most of Africa and the Middle East now that's real problem area's and will be for quite some time it's not even meant as funny banter there it's pure hatred! 

Im proud to be British/English!

Take a trip out to the Caribbean too if you want to witness some bigotry par excellence.

The attached is a speech in parliament from 2 months ago by one of the dinosaurs presently in office.

https://caymannewsservice.com/2015/08/veteran-mla-calls-homosexuals-evil/

Choice lines include:
"Anthony Eden, has derided rights for the Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender (LGBT) community and warned that the next step would be bestiality, as “people demanded the right to make love to their animals.”

"he said Satan was working through educators and others, including the media, who used words to describe “deviant behavior” in a way to convince people it was acceptable."

"In a speech in which he attacked not just the gay lifestyle but homosexuals themselves, in particular men, the MLA quoted from the religious conservative press and asked when it was that “child molesting had become man-boy love and crushing a baby’s skull and sucking out their brains had become a human right”.

[downendcity]

Take a trip out to the Caribbean too if you want to witness some bigotry par excellence.

The attached is a speech in parliament from 2 months ago by one of the dinosaurs presently in office.

https://caymannewsservice.com/2015/08/veteran-mla-calls-homosexuals-evil/

Choice lines include:
"Anthony Eden, has derided rights for the Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender (LGBT) community and warned that the next step would be bestiality, as “people demanded the right to make love to their animals.”

"he said Satan was working through educators and others, including the media, who used words to describe “deviant behavior” in a way to convince people it was acceptable."

"In a speech in which he attacked not just the gay lifestyle but homosexuals themselves, in particular men, the MLA quoted from the religious conservative press and asked when it was that “child molesting had become man-boy love and crushing a baby’s skull and sucking out their brains had become a human right”.

We've had a few donkeys play for us and many of them did **** things up on a regular basis, but I think bestiality would be taking things a bit far!

As for people demanding the right to make love to their animals, I think we need to know where Aizoon is on this issue - or Horace, for that matter!

 

[PHILINFRANCE]

I have read and followed this thread with interest and should like to seek the forum’s general views on my following comments/questions.

I am posting in good faith, and whilst I am prepared for and would accept graciously any fair criticism, I would ask simply that you understand I am from a different, i.e. probably older, generation than most of the posters on here and believe firmly that throwaway comments or even those made in the heat of the moment are not necessarily sexist/homophobic/racist or even in any way malicious.

For instance, when playing football many years ago I recall opponents falling to the ground and claiming a foul after a hard but fair tackle and me shouting at them to get up you ‘big girl’s blouse’ or ‘*****ng poof’: would such comments be acceptable today or would they be considered sexist/homophobic?

Similarly, I note gl1’s comment and acceptance (as an amusing chant made in good faith) of the chant at Brighton ‘Does your boyfriend know you’re here’ and I recall several years ago (it was at the Goldstone Ground, so quite some time ago) the chant from the City fans of ‘We can see you holding hands’: I joined in, but does that make me homophobic? Of course not.

Finally, who, in a red mist moment of anger, has not faced their antagonist and called him (or her) you fat/skinny/lanky/short….etc. b*st*rd?

For some reason, in that red mist moment, to call someone a black/gay b*st*rd would be considered totally unacceptable (and rightly so), but surely if, in that moment of blind rage, all you can see in that person in front of you is that he is (choose your adjective) then in screaming out the first thing you see (black/ginger/fat etc.) are you really racist/homophobic?

I have purposely refrained from using the words ‘n*gg*r (or Nword in case it is blocked) or ‘q***r/f*gg*t, both of which are derogatory and, quite correctly, are deemed racist/homophobic, but I do wonder sometimes if our politically correct society sometimes exaggerates to the extent that we are now unable, even in good faith, to engage in ‘banter’ with our neighbours.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Don't know if it has been mentioned before but two top flight players, one has played for England, are set to come out soon.

 

Apparently I should add

[alexukhc]

Don't know if it has been mentioned before but two top flight players, one has played for England, are set to come out soon.

 

Apparently I should add

just read this, shall we play guess who? No let's not.. I care very much who comes out because I think long term it will help the game, help fans, help us all. They're has been a non understanding in football in such a long time, frankly it has to change

[gas8er]

Personally I couldn't give a toss, and if you don't like it you can shove it up your arse...........

[gl1]

I have read and followed this thread with interest and should like to seek the forum’s general views on my following comments/questions.

 

I am posting in good faith, and whilst I am prepared for and would accept graciously any fair criticism, I would ask simply that you understand I am from a different, i.e. probably older, generation than most of the posters on here and believe firmly that throwaway comments or even those made in the heat of the moment are not necessarily sexist/homophobic/racist or even in any way malicious.

 

For instance, when playing football many years ago I recall opponents falling to the ground and claiming a foul after a hard but fair tackle and me shouting at them to get up you ‘big girl’s blouse’ or ‘*****ng poof’: would such comments be acceptable today or would they be considered sexist/homophobic?

 

Similarly, I note gl1’s comment and acceptance (as an amusing chant made in good faith) of the chant at Brighton ‘Does your boyfriend know you’re here’ and I recall several years ago (it was at the Goldstone Ground, so quite some time ago) the chant from the City fans of ‘We can see you holding hands’: I joined in, but does that make me homophobic? Of course not.

 

Finally, who, in a red mist moment of anger, has not faced their antagonist and called him (or her) you fat/skinny/lanky/short….etc. b*st*rd?

 

For some reason, in that red mist moment, to call someone a black/gay b*st*rd would be considered totally unacceptable (and rightly so), but surely if, in that moment of blind rage, all you can see in that person in front of you is that he is (choose your adjective) then in screaming out the first thing you see (black/ginger/fat etc.) are you really racist/homophobic?

 

I have purposely refrained from using the words ‘n*gg*r (or Nword in case it is blocked) or ‘q***r/f*gg*t, both of which are derogatory and, quite correctly, are deemed racist/homophobic, but I do wonder sometimes if our politically correct society sometimes exaggerates to the extent that we are now unable, even in good faith, to engage in ‘banter’ with our neighbours.

 

Phil, to answer some of your questions, and to give you hopefully a better understanding of how the majority of the gay community ticks.

As a man in my forties, when i first understood that I was gay at about 10 years old the only other people I knew were gay from the TV was Larry Grayson, John inman and Kenneth Williams. As the 70's moved to the 80's more celebs came out, but pretty much all conformed to the sterotypes, Boy George, Freddie Mercury, Elton John etc. It was no wonder people percieved us as camp effeminate, and unusual which led to the mocking, and misunderstanding which kept me and many more firmly in the closet. Even my father was heard to say 'them queers and gayboys' which of course made it even harder for me. (once I did come out he apologized and said he was happy with whatever I did, as long as I happy, and eventually when he met my partner, my dad loved him like a son)

To protect ourselves the gay community sought to dis-empower the hatred by adopting and using the more 'colourful' ways to describe a gay person. San Francisco gay guys adopted the word gay in the late sixties as an acronym 'G.A.Y - Good As You'.

There used to be a magazine called 'Bent' for example, and of course the TV show 'Queer as folk'. I don't know any gay people who are offended by humour based mickey taking, you will see Big Tone and I on this thread have had a bit of banter. It is only when it turns to physical attack or words used to abuse do we (and most straight people these days) take umbrage.

I applaud this thread have enjoyed reading and contributing, but honestly hand on heart there are lots of mountains out of mole hills here, it seems the straight guys and gals here and more offended by 'homophobia in football' than at least this gay man is!

I agree, that the thought of gay men not being able to come out in football is wrong but we are changing, we are more tolerant. Gareth Thomas coming out as gay was not the flood gate opening moment it should have been, but I am sure it is only a matter of time before one or more do. To suggest that all professional football players across 4 divisions and into the conference are straight is frankly, a joke.

In the mean time bring on Brighton at home, I fancy a nice loud rendition of 'We can see you holding hands'

Right I'm off to put on my pink hotpants, grab some lipstick and put on some Abba tunes (only joking)

[Barrs Court Red]

I think the most homophobic group associated to football are the players.

The vast amount of football fans I'vet met don't have a problem who are supporters are,it's 2015 FFS

Yeah I think you're probably bang on with that.  

I'd also say clubs probably don't want openly gay players, in case it harms their precious revenue streams in the Middle East. 

[BigTone]

 

 

I have purposely refrained from using the words ‘n*gg*r (or Nword in case it is blocked) or ‘q***r/f*gg*t, 

 

I like Faggots especially with chips and mushy peas

[Aizoon]

I like Faggots especially with chips and mushy peas

Shows you have Brains, Tone. 

[Lack of Action Man]

Don't really understand why sexuality can be a source of intimidation or personal attack anymore to be honest. Why anyone needs to actively involve themselves that much in someone else's private life that they pass judgement for their sexualpreferences is beyond me. Frankly, it doesn't matter what sexual orientation you are, if you're a decent person that I could enjoy a pint and a chat with down the local, I couldn't care less. 

[ten minutes of rough]

I have read and followed this thread with interest and should like to seek the forum’s general views on my following comments/questions.

 

I am posting in good faith, and whilst I am prepared for and would accept graciously any fair criticism, I would ask simply that you understand I am from a different, i.e. probably older, generation than most of the posters on here and believe firmly that throwaway comments or even those made in the heat of the moment are not necessarily sexist/homophobic/racist or even in any way malicious.

 

For instance, when playing football many years ago I recall opponents falling to the ground and claiming a foul after a hard but fair tackle and me shouting at them to get up you ‘big girl’s blouse’ or ‘*****ng poof’: would such comments be acceptable today or would they be considered sexist/homophobic?

 

Similarly, I note gl1’s comment and acceptance (as an amusing chant made in good faith) of the chant at Brighton ‘Does your boyfriend know you’re here’ and I recall several years ago (it was at the Goldstone Ground, so quite some time ago) the chant from the City fans of ‘We can see you holding hands’: I joined in, but does that make me homophobic? Of course not.

 

Finally, who, in a red mist moment of anger, has not faced their antagonist and called him (or her) you fat/skinny/lanky/short….etc. b*st*rd?

 

For some reason, in that red mist moment, to call someone a black/gay b*st*rd would be considered totally unacceptable (and rightly so), but surely if, in that moment of blind rage, all you can see in that person in front of you is that he is (choose your adjective) then in screaming out the first thing you see (black/ginger/fat etc.) are you really racist/homophobic?

 

I have purposely refrained from using the words ‘n*gg*r (or Nword in case it is blocked) or ‘q***r/f*gg*t, both of which are derogatory and, quite correctly, are deemed racist/homophobic, but I do wonder sometimes if our politically correct society sometimes exaggerates to the extent that we are now unable, even in good faith, to engage in ‘banter’ with our neighbours.

 

Considering of what you find funny, this post doesn't surprise me, and before you say again it's a generation thing, I am of the same generation as you, and have served in the forces, lived and worked in a variety of places. I have moved on and don't find it difficult to conform to what is acceptable or not.

So your comments regarding using the 'throw away comments' you allude to as being in the heat of the moment, and are not sexist racist or homophobic!!! comes as no surprise at all, you even admit to joining in with homophobic chants, you cant have a level of what you do as being acceptable, or hiding behind your rage as an excuse. Entering into 'banter' as you call it is all right with your neighbour, and therefore our politically correct society is not for you.

Not sure about France, but we certainly have moved on a tad over here.

 

Best you stay there I reckon. 

 

[And Its Smith]

I have read and followed this thread with interest and should like to seek the forum’s general views on my following comments/questions.

 

I am posting in good faith, and whilst I am prepared for and would accept graciously any fair criticism, I would ask simply that you understand I am from a different, i.e. probably older, generation than most of the posters on here and believe firmly that throwaway comments or even those made in the heat of the moment are not necessarily sexist/homophobic/racist or even in any way malicious.

 

For instance, when playing football many years ago I recall opponents falling to the ground and claiming a foul after a hard but fair tackle and me shouting at them to get up you ‘big girl’s blouse’ or ‘*****ng poof’: would such comments be acceptable today or would they be considered sexist/homophobic?

 

Similarly, I note gl1’s comment and acceptance (as an amusing chant made in good faith) of the chant at Brighton ‘Does your boyfriend know you’re here’ and I recall several years ago (it was at the Goldstone Ground, so quite some time ago) the chant from the City fans of ‘We can see you holding hands’: I joined in, but does that make me homophobic? Of course not.

 

Finally, who, in a red mist moment of anger, has not faced their antagonist and called him (or her) you fat/skinny/lanky/short….etc. b*st*rd?

 

For some reason, in that red mist moment, to call someone a black/gay b*st*rd would be considered totally unacceptable (and rightly so), but surely if, in that moment of blind rage, all you can see in that person in front of you is that he is (choose your adjective) then in screaming out the first thing you see (black/ginger/fat etc.) are you really racist/homophobic?

 

I have purposely refrained from using the words ‘n*gg*r (or Nword in case it is blocked) or ‘q***r/f*gg*t, both of which are derogatory and, quite correctly, are deemed racist/homophobic, but I do wonder sometimes if our politically correct society sometimes exaggerates to the extent that we are now unable, even in good faith, to engage in ‘banter’ with our neighbours.

 

if you are calling someone a 'short ******' then you are doing so as you believe that the persons height is a negative. Therefore if you call someone a gay or black ****** then you are perceiving that as a negative as well.

if you are getting red mist and cannot control what you say then I'd suggest you have some sort of anger management issue