Atmosphere last night

[Aaron-Bcfc]

1 minute ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Makes no difference if we get to the PL, the away allocations for League matches don't alter. 

The 10%, 2,700 maximum would still apply to away fans at AG.

Cardiff manage to get away with offering a max allocation of 2k in a stadium that holds 33k

[WTMS]

13 minutes ago, Rich said:

You are being particularly picky. Dialogue was not an open invitation, if you weren't party to the information prior to the meeting.

Rich anybody could take part.

Dialogue was conducted with fans on Otib - Subcider.

Posters were put in pubs with contact details, as was the petition.

The By the Fans document was on line, it was on A4 sheets and shared on matchday in pubs and in the ground.

Money was raised for a London based fan to attend the meeting to attempt to get the stand open.

The only people there was no attempt to open dialogue with was the local papers, that was turned down.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Rich, you're suggesting the singers move to the South Stand.

The club don't want them there, it has been clearly stated standing will not be tolerated, and community groups are nearby, so swearing will be frowned on.

The Atyeo is an experiment that the club intends to continue and, depending how it goes this season, perhaps even enlarge.

It may even be that away fans are accommodated well out the way and both ends become City fans only.

Either way, from all the noises coming out of the club the intention is the City 'singers' will continue to be accommodated there after this season.

Whether the club are 'in charge' or not the result is a fairly unique opportunity for City fans to create a colourful and boisterous 'home end' in at least part of the Atyeo, something so far at least they seem to be grasping with both hands.

Long may it continue and thrive.

[Rich]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Makes no difference if we get to the PL, the away allocations for League matches don't alter. 

The 10%, 2,700 maximum would still apply to away fans at AG.

Do you honestly believe that the club will turn down the opportunity of having extra revenue from clubs with large away support, by restricting those tickets? They will need as much revenue as possible to be able to compete.

[Rich]

1 hour ago, WTMS said:

Rich anybody could take part.

Dialogue was conducted with fans on Otib - Subcider.

Posters were put in pubs with contact details, as was the petition.

The By the Fans document was on line, it was on A4 sheets and shared on matchday in pubs and in the ground.

Money was raised for a London based fan to attend the meeting to attempt to get the stand open.

The only people there was no attempt to open dialogue with was the local papers, that was turned down.

So that's the reason only 246 out of 16k decided to go in the Eastend. You can promote things as much as you want and it sounds like a valiant effort but, it obviously missed an awful lot of people.

Now, rather than talk about petitions, coach fare for a London red, A4 sheets, dialogue with the management, who went from where, and who you spoke to. Have you ever considered doing your own thing, just like every other supporter does and, decide what part of the ground you'd like to go into over a long term, to make your match day experience better and more importantly, help the team. Virtually every team in the country has their main singing group of supporters behind the goal, you probably do it at away grounds. Why has it got to be tucked up in the corner, out of the way, at Ashton Gate?

[Rich]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Rich, you're suggesting the singers move to the South Stand.

The club don't want them there, it has been clearly stated standing will not be tolerated, and community groups are nearby, so swearing will be frowned on.

The Atyeo is an experiment that the club intends to continue and, depending how it goes this season, perhaps even enlarge.

It may even be that away fans are accommodated well out the way and both ends become City fans only.

Either way, from all the noises coming out of the club the intention is the City 'singers' will continue to be accommodated there after this season.

Whether the club are 'in charge' or not the result is a fairly unique opportunity for City fans to create a colourful and boisterous 'home end' in at least part of the Atyeo, something so far at least they seem to be grasping with both hands.

Long may it continue and thrive.

As you say, this is an experiment, it is with the permission of the management, I hope it continues, I have serious doubts though. Because they are dealing with a group and what appears to be self elected spokespersons. As such, it's easier for them to dictate what happens. One outbreak of violence, too much swearing, general bad behaviour and they'll act accordingly with "the group", that's already happened after incidents behind the Ateyo. If that group were individuals, acting alone, they wouldn't know how to act and could only act against the single person.

[Nogbad the Bad]

16 minutes ago, Rich said:

Do you honestly believe that the club will turn down the opportunity of having extra revenue from clubs with large away support, by restricting those tickets? They will need as much revenue as possible to be able to compete.

It's not a question of turning down any opportunity, the maximum allocation for league games is 10%, and most clubs, especially in the PL, give far less.

As I said before even if the club wanted to give more - which I'm sure they wouldn't - the local Safety Advisory Group would almost certainly veto it, as they have done around the country.

 

 

[Rich]

5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

It's not a question of turning down any opportunity, the maximum allocation for league games is 10%, and most clubs, especially in the PL, give far less.

As I said before even if the club wanted to give more - which I'm sure they wouldn't - the local Safety Advisory Group would almost certainly veto it, as they have done around the country.

 

 

Most clubs in the premier league could fill their ground with their own fans, so would be reluctant to give them to away support. I'm not sure we'd have that luxury initially and would rely on the away support for extra revenue.

We are talking about the club who were willing to give the whole Eastend to away support, if demand dictated it. regardless of the effect on the team. As for the SAGS, they'd not have an option if it were the whole stand allocated.

[WTMS]

8 minutes ago, Rich said:

So that's the reason only 246 out of 16k decided to go in the Eastend. You can promote things as much as you want and it sounds like a valiant effort but, it obviously missed an awful lot of people.

Now, rather than talk about petitions, coach fare for a London red, A4 sheets, dialogue with the management, who went from where, and who you spoke to. Have you ever considered doing your own thing, just like every other supporter does and, decide what part of the ground you'd like to go into over a long term, to make your match day experience better and more importantly, help the team. Virtually every team in the country has their main singing group of supporters behind the goal, you probably do it at away grounds. Why has it got to be tucked up in the corner, out of the way, at Ashton Gate?

So that's the reason only 246 out of 16k decided to go in the Eastend. You can promote things as much as you want and it sounds like a valiant effort but, it obviously missed an awful lot of people ... No. Even with unparalleled restrictions the  right type of people to act as a catalyst to others were present.

Have you ever considered doing your own thing, just like every other supporter does and, decide what part of the ground you'd like to go into over a long term ... Yes. The above was such. Fans are still trying to affect the long term post Eastend

Virtually every team in the country has their main singing group of supporters behind the goal .. Once perhaps, but that is now incorrect e.g Nottingham Forest being a good example where that can hardly be applied. 

Why has .. Reasoning for fans to approach Bristol Sport with ideas has been provided in previous posts and links.

[Rich]

2 minutes ago, WTMS said:

So that's the reason only 246 out of 16k decided to go in the Eastend. You can promote things as much as you want and it sounds like a valiant effort but, it obviously missed an awful lot of people ... No. Even with unparalleled restrictions the  right type of people to act as a catalyst to others were present.

Have you ever considered doing your own thing, just like every other supporter does and, decide what part of the ground you'd like to go into over a long term ... Yes. The above was such. Fans are still trying to affect the long term post Eastend

Virtually every team in the country has their main singing group of supporters behind the goal .. Once perhaps, but that is now incorrect e.g Nottingham Forest being a good example where that can hardly be applied. 

Why has .. Reasoning for fans to approach Bristol Sport with ideas has been provided in previous posts and links.

"No. Even with unparalleled restrictions the  right type of people to act as a catalyst to others were present".

Unparalleled restrictions!  Who from?  Surely not the club? I'll ask again, why only 246 people, when it covered such a vast array of outlets. I would hazard a guess that those outlets never reahced the majority of fans.

 

"Yes. The above was such. Fans are still trying to affect the long term post Eastend"     

Actually it's No, you are acting as a collective, if you were acting individually, the club could not dictate the situation.

 

"Once perhaps, but that is now incorrect e.g Nottingham Forest being a good example where that can hardly be applied".

One example! And they are not doing so well, coincidence?  Surely there's more than one example of a club without a "Home end", I did say virtually, by that I mean the majority.

It can't be a coincidence that fans choose to go behind the goal. I know there was cost and other factors but, it's where the action is at it's most intent and to be there when your teams attacking and roaring them on is one of the finest feelings a fan can ever have. As you get older things change and you appreciate other things in the game, so you leave it to the younger more vocal fans with more latent energy to go the extra mile for the cause. I thought that's what it was all about, perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[Rich]

Interesting topic  "Banned for standing". Av have banned fans for persistent standing.

[WTMS]

14 minutes ago, Rich said:

 

 

"No. Even with unparalleled restrictions the  right type of people to act as a catalyst to others were present".

Unparalleled restrictions!  Who from?  Surely not the club? I'll ask again, why only 246 people, when it covered such a vast array of outlets. I would hazard a guess that those outlets never reahced the majority of fans.

 

"Yes. The above was such. Fans are still trying to affect the long term post Eastend"     

Actually it's No, you are acting as a collective, if you were acting individually, the club could not dictate the situation.

 

"Once perhaps, but that is now incorrect e.g Nottingham Forest being a good example where that can hardly be applied".

One example! And they are not doing so well, coincidence?  Surely there's more than one example of a club without a "Home end", I did say virtually, by that I mean the majority.

It can't be a coincidence that fans choose to go behind the goal. I know there was cost and other factors but, it's where the action is at it's most intent and to be there when your teams attacking and roaring them on is one of the finest feelings a fan can ever have. As you get older things change and you appreciate other things in the game, so you leave it to the younger more vocal fans with more latent energy to go the extra mile for the cause. I thought that's what it was all about, perhaps I'm wrong.

 

why only 246 people .. Because of restrictions as formerly pointed. The numbers increased and attitudes changed e.g Mr Lansdown labelling the stand a success.

Actually it's No, you are acting as a collective, if you were acting individually .. Its a yes. People make their own decisions. It becomes collective when individuals agree something/ an idea is worth backing.

One example! And they are not doing so well, coincidence?  Surely there's more than one example of a club without a "Home end", I did say virtually, by that I mean the majority ... One example in the Championship, another could have been Middlesbrough, there are others but the concept of the traditional Home end is dead nationally, these banks of roaring fans don't exist. Terrace culture has virtually gone. The ends have gone. Moving to the South stand and sitting down won't bring it back.

[Rich]

On ‎13‎/‎11‎/‎2015‎ ‎23‎:‎40‎:‎08, WTMS said:

why only 246 people .. Because of restrictions as formerly pointed. The numbers increased and attitudes changed e.g Mr Lansdown labelling the stand a success.

Actually it's No, you are acting as a collective, if you were acting individually .. Its a yes. People make their own decisions. It becomes collective when individuals agree something/ an idea is worth backing.

One example! And they are not doing so well, coincidence?  Surely there's more than one example of a club without a "Home end", I did say virtually, by that I mean the majority ... One example in the Championship, another could have been Middlesbrough, there are others but the concept of the traditional Home end is dead nationally, these banks of roaring fans don't exist. Terrace culture has virtually gone. The ends have gone. Moving to the South stand and sitting down won't bring it back.

So it seems that you have again avoided actually addressing any of my points directly, as in who imposed the unparalleled restrictions. You know what I'm saying yet you refuse to admit those restrictions are there and that you are still likely to be severely restricted but, you still go along with it.

Confusion reigns in your second response. You acted as a group, which is a collective. If you acted individually but with a consensus, it's not a collective.

I think you are wrong with your theory on home ends, though banks of fans have diminished. Also on terrace culture, the group in the Ateyo are a prime example of terrace culture prevailing. Your last sentence seems to highlight the real reason for your perceived reluctance to even consider moving to the South Stand, that is, your preference to be able to stand. This is a situation which in time will be lost, unless there is a change of opinion from those that control the grounds/clubs, with an introduction of safe standing systems. 

[WTMS]

3 hours ago, Rich said:

So it seems that you have again avoided actually addressing any of my points directly, as in who imposed the unparalleled restrictions. You know what I'm saying yet you refuse to admit those restrictions are there and that you are still likely to be severely restricted but, you still go along with it.

Confusion reigns in your second response. You acted as a group, which is a collective. If you acted individually but with a consensus, it's not a collective.

I think you are wrong with your theory on home ends, though banks of fans have diminished. Also on terrace culture, the group in the Ateyo are a prime example of terrace culture prevailing. Your last sentence seems to highlight the real reason for your perceived reluctance to even consider moving to the South Stand, that is, your preference to be able to stand. This is a situation which in time will be lost, unless there is a change of opinion from those that control the grounds/clubs, with an introduction of safe standing systems. 

Points there have been addressed thoroughly already.

This is a situation which in time will be lost, unless there is a change of opinion from those that control the grounds/clubs ... There have already been changes of opinion. 

[The dastardly red]

On 4 November 2015 19:59:26, RedSA said:

I was stood in the Atyeo with my arms crossed. Got a problem with my throat at the moment which gets aggravated by talking, let alone singing football songs. 

Perhaps, when your voice returns, you should record yourself singing and then next time your throat is not working you could play the recording through a megaphone when at Ashton gate. 

[Rich]

19 hours ago, WTMS said:

Points there have been addressed thoroughly already.

This is a situation which in time will be lost, unless there is a change of opinion from those that control the grounds/clubs ... There have already been changes of opinion. 

Ok, let's take one point at a time.

1. Do you honestly think there will be a change of opinion which will allow like minded people to stand up in the Dolman stand? I think this move is one of the proposals under discussion with the management, ie dividing the group.

2. Is your main objective to be able to stand up? That's why you won't even consider the South Stand.

3. Do you think BS see your group as a problem?  You have already been pushed from pillar to post.

4. Have you got a future if BCFC become more successful?

5. If as you say there has already been a change of opinion (presumably by the management), why are you finding your future still unclear as to where you will be allowed to go?

It's easier to answer 1-5 than mixing up the posts.

Anyway, it's time to put this on the back burner, I wish you well.

[WTMS]

4 hours ago, Rich said:

Ok, let's take one point at a time.

1. Do you honestly think there will be a change of opinion which will allow like minded people to stand up in the Dolman stand? I think this move is one of the proposals under discussion with the management, ie dividing the group.

2. Is your main objective to be able to stand up? That's why you won't even consider the South Stand.

3. Do you think BS see your group as a problem?  You have already been pushed from pillar to post.

4. Have you got a future if BCFC become more successful?

5. If as you say there has already been a change of opinion (presumably by the management), why are you finding your future still unclear as to where you will be allowed to go?

It's easier to answer 1-5 than mixing up the posts.

Anyway, it's time to put this on the back burner, I wish you well.

Rich hopefully in the near future it maybe possible to provide unequivocal answers, backed up by announcements / facts.

Attitudes have changed. It has taken over five years, but there is now an acceptance that fans standing at Ashton Gate is part of match day for a section fans. This will be of minor importance to the majority, but City/BS have altered their stance on flags - The promised flag policy gives fans a standard to work with.

Small steps given the concentrated effort and lengthy time span, but steps they are..

[Rich]

On ‎18‎/‎11‎/‎2015‎ ‎00‎:‎11‎:‎22, WTMS said:

Rich hopefully in the near future it maybe possible to provide unequivocal answers, backed up by announcements / facts.

Attitudes have changed. It has taken over five years, but there is now an acceptance that fans standing at Ashton Gate is part of match day for a section fans. This will be of minor importance to the majority, but City/BS have altered their stance on flags - The promised flag policy gives fans a standard to work with.

Small steps given the concentrated effort and lengthy time span, but steps they are..

So in the mean time we'll just have to settle for no actual answers what so ever, regarding the issues that you say have been thoroughly dealt with. Yet those questions raised were asking for your opinions, not facts, so there really is no reason not to answer them.

[WTMS]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

So in the mean time we'll just have to settle for no actual answers what so ever, regarding the issues that you say have been thoroughly dealt with. Yet those questions raised were asking for your opinions, not facts, so there really is no reason not to answer them.

No Rich.

Your points regarding the South stand were thoroughly answered as possible..

Regarding the Atyeo - Lower Dolman opinions are formed by experience and information. Fans have been in the Atyeo as it is for months, or even one game on the Dolman side. Informed opinion regarding the Atyeo - Lower Dolman will also be formed by putting ideas in front of Bristol Sport. Rules, policies call them what you will. A ill formed opinion is that Bristol Sport will be far more receptive regarding the Atyeo than they will the Dolman, but there is not informed certainty at work there..

[Dave]

If the ideas being put forward to Bristol Sport include standing in the Lower Dolman, I hope all fan groups views have been taken into account, including those who use the wheelchair areas.

[WTMS]

8 hours ago, Dave said:

If the ideas being put forward to Bristol Sport include standing in the Lower Dolman, I hope all fan groups views have been taken into account, including those who use the wheelchair areas.

At this point it is notional, and linked very much to the long term and the possibility of safe standing. It would not necessarily require the removal of the wheelchair section.

Bristol Sport will be asked to consult fans more, not less.

[Dave]

Wow, so supporters are going to put a proposal to Bristol Sport, which may result in the removal of the wheelchair section(s), which has been in place for less than a dozen City games.

Which supporters in these sections have been consulted about this proposal. Well I haven't.

So a supporter led suggestion which has not canvassed opinion of all affected supporters. 

 

 

[WTMS]

1 minute ago, Dave said:

Wow, so supporters are going to put a proposal to Bristol Sport, which may result in the removal of the wheelchair section(s), which has been in place for less than a dozen City games.

Which supporters in these sections have been consulted about this proposal. Well I haven't.

So a supporter led suggestion which has not canvassed opinion of all affected supporters. 

 

 

Dave the idea does not.

Long term could mean five, or ten years time. Bristol Sports intent for areas of the ground including those with disabilities is not clear. More information should be requested for all.

It is a very loose idea, which could be dropped like a stone by answers to lines of questions like would standing fans interfere with the views of those in the disabled section, what is the rake/is the rake dangerous for standing fans and on. Answers fans do not have.

The idea is that proposals do not affect fans, that there is wider engagement not narrower / next to none. 

If you are concerned about inclusion of those with disabilities, it should be pointed out that those who have put ideas forward such as the move into the the Eastend/Williams included cross referencing points with people who work for disability services - Pm for detail as service providers do not always support being named publicly.

In short you are referring to something that.may not get past the first question.

 

[Dave]

OK.

I have no problem with safe standing.

My concern is that ideas which are put forward take account of issues for all supporters. Currently if people stand at the front of the lower Dolman my view would be blocked. I realise the pitch is due to move.

I know from my own experiences, when a new system, was introduced for where substitutes were to warm up, was introduced as it supposedly held no consequences, but the people who actually used the facility saw the issue within two minutes.

I and my brother, had to liaise with the Club, the Football League and the Football Ombudsman, the report is still on the Football Ombudsman website, to get a solution, which resulted in the raised wheelchair area at Ashton Gate, in the Williams Stand. 

I would love Ashton Gate to have safe standing, but it must enhance the matchday experience for all.

 

 

[WTMS]

23 hours ago, Dave said:

OK.

I have no problem with safe standing.

My concern is that ideas which are put forward take account of issues for all supporters. Currently if people stand at the front of the lower Dolman my view would be blocked. I realise the pitch is due to move.

I know from my own experiences, when a new system, was introduced for where substitutes were to warm up, was introduced as it supposedly held no consequences, but the people who actually used the facility saw the issue within two minutes.

I and my brother, had to liaise with the Club, the Football League and the Football Ombudsman, the report is still on the Football Ombudsman website, to get a solution, which resulted in the raised wheelchair area at Ashton Gate, in the Williams Stand. 

I would love Ashton Gate to have safe standing, but it must enhance the matchday experience for all.

 

 

You have pointed out that you [both?]  enjoyed being near more vocal fans in the past. Fans when putting suggestions forward to BCFC  have consistently made it clear that other fans views should not be blocked e.g Eastend - Williams E. 

It could be possible to do similar in the Lower Dolman. In the future[?]

Safe standing may be a pipe dream, but in some far off utopia on a humbler scale safe standing could incorporate disabled areas as well. This has been done in Germany i.e Signal Iduna Park and the Wesser stadium. 

If we do not ask questions, make suggestions now,  it is harder to affect what is done after the event.