BCFC Jimmer Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 22 minutes ago, Big Brother said: Collis you have leveled this accusation against me several times. I don't know why you do it or why you are so unpleasant at times. What I do know is that a tactic of the Left is to lash out with accusations and name calling, such 'racist', 'fascist', 'nazi' and in your case 'liar'. I have called you a bigot on several occasions because you have literally met the definition of the word with some of your comments. You really can't hide from that point. I stopped responding and reading your posts because nothing was being achieved and we were going around in circles. It took you about 12 hours to start using the Paris attacks to point score which I found rather distasteful and unpleasant. I shouldn't have bitten today. Showing me 'proof' isn't going to make a difference at the end of the day is it? You could have visited every country in the world and slept with 5000 chicks but I would still find your opinions fundamentally wrong. Your defence of Putin, far right organizations and now defending Assad (Really?!) is mind boggling when you keep saying you want to achieve a better society. To me it sounds like you just want to watch the world burn. In terms of a apology: I am happy to do so if you apologize for your posts where you stereotyped and generalized muslims (and brown people in general) as criminals. That was the only real injustice that has occurred during these debates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: Quite. And that extends to Russia. I see D Cameron's Commons pitch today is "bombing Syria will make us safer". Hmmmm, worked well in France didn't it?! Any military action against IS can only be as part of a UN "grand coalition" but we're a way from that yet. We need to help broker peace in the rest of the Syrian Civil War first. A solution that will allow Assad to step down (perhaps a discontinuation of the UN War Crimes Commission probe?) and one that recognises religious plurality in Syria: perhaps a Sunni president and Shia PM. Doesn't the new labour party manifesto otherwise known as the thoughts of chairman Mao say "a journey of a thousand miles start with a single step?". As for the final paragraph, I think the Isis first idea is the more pressing issue and I also think we have to fully question the motives of Turkey shooting down of the Russian plane, I believe it to be a very odd decision and I suspect NATO in private are not very happy at all despite what they say in public. Personally I am not sure I fully trust this Turkish leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolborn_and_red Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Quote Trust him at your peril. The man is an islamist and is in cahoots with Isis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 2 hours ago, Big Brother said: Your post is just a list of your opinions and I might have let it go had it not been for the last paragraph, where you allude to me being racist ('brown people in general'), which is another serious insult. If you are 'happy to apologise' you have either changed your mind about me being a 'compulsive liar' or you are willing to lie to win an argument. This is a good example of the duplicity of Left wing politics. It's quite a contrast to the type of people I see in the Nationalist / Alt Right movement. So be it. Mate I don't agree with many if any of your posts (my opinion) I always believe that the truth usually occupies the middle of both radical sides of the argument, but this guy is actually the biggest liar on the forum, he constantly makes shit up and is very quick with the insults and labels, at least you attempt debate your side of the argument, something that he constantly talks about but never practices, he is like most socialists just happy to go along with every piece of shit that they are fed and then just resort to bullying tactics when somebody disagrees, he never once questions or criticises anything that comes out of this latest version of the labour party even though the past 10 days have been amateur hour and boy it could have been oh so different, they could have been have been making huge political capital over Osbourne's tax credit u turn and Corbyn could say straight away I cannot support air strikes in Syria but in the interests of conscience and democracy I will allow a free vote on the matter, but instead those political moments have been lost to Livingstone x 2 and Mcdonnell x 2, both are loose cannons, who sadly characterise what many people believe and remember about old labour. I just see that footage has emerged of Sister/Comrade Abbott on the this week programme some time ago actually claim that Mao 'did more good than bad', the biggest mass murderer of all time 45/60million of his own people killed FFS. The labour party fascination with Mao says a lot about the sort of Britain many of them would like to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 12 minutes ago, Big Brother said: Thanks Esmond. As for Labour, the country definitely needs a strong opposition, I'd prefer it to have a Nationalist flavour though. However, I can't see that happening (yet). I loathe Socialism, it's the pathway to Communism. I'm not a fan of Winston Churchill but I do agree with the quote that is attributed to him: It's funny how anything left of centre is always "the politics of envy" when it's about the poorer sectors of society aiming to get a fairer share in return for their labour, yet when it's capitalists seeking to maximise their dividends it's all "greed is good" and "that's how markets operate". Other than his war ministry, where they recognised him as an inspiring figurehead but kept him well away from the military planners, Churchill was an abject failure as a politician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 We'll have to agree to differ on that one, Rads. What I always find strange is that you're a British "nationalist" who has spent a lot of his life living in foreign countries. Surely if love of one's country is your paramount political principle the least you can do is actually live there? It's all a bit "Sean Connery". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 2 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Mate I don't agree with many if any of your posts (my opinion) I always believe that the truth usually occupies the middle of both radical sides of the argument, but this guy is actually the biggest liar on the forum, he constantly makes shit up and is very quick with the insults and labels, at least you attempt debate your side of the argument, something that he constantly talks about but never practices, he is like most socialists just happy to go along with every piece of shit that they are fed and then just resort to bullying tactics when somebody disagrees, he never once questions or criticises anything that comes out of this latest version of the labour party even though the past 10 days have been amateur hour and boy it could have been oh so different, they could have been have been making huge political capital over Osbourne's tax credit u turn and Corbyn could say straight away I cannot support air strikes in Syria but in the interests of conscience and democracy I will allow a free vote on the matter, but instead those political moments have been lost to Livingstone x 2 and Mcdonnell x 2, both are loose cannons, who sadly characterise what many people believe and remember about old labour. I just see that footage has emerged of Sister/Comrade Abbott on the this week programme some time ago actually claim that Mao 'did more good than bad', the biggest mass murderer of all time 45/60million of his own people killed FFS. The labour party fascination with Mao says a lot about the sort of Britain many of them would like to see. The left refuse to see that the far left are as evil / bad as the far right. Mention Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Trotsty, Marx, Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Guevara and any other scumbags and the reply is usually "yes, but the Nazis were far worse". They seem to think there is something "romantic" about these names, as they were "freedom fighters" . All as bad as Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels etc in my book. There then follows a discussion about which murderers were worst (!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 4 hours ago, Big Brother said: Your post is just a list of your opinions and I might have let it go had it not been for the last paragraph, where you allude to me being racist ('brown people in general'), which is another serious insult. If you are 'happy to apologise' you have either changed your mind about me being a 'compulsive liar' or you are willing to lie to win an argument. This is a good example of the duplicity of Left wing politics. It's quite a contrast to the type of people I see in the Nationalist / Alt Right movement. So be it. Although you come across as generally fair and polite, I hardly think the Nationalist/Far Right Movement that you represent can take the moral high ground when it comes to general behaviour. It's a sad truth that the far right movements in the UK over the past 40 years or so have probably done more to turn people off being 'proud to be British' than anyone. To this day they still bastardise the St George's Cross with slogans of hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 1 hour ago, The Gasbuster said: The left refuse to see that the far left are as evil / bad as the far right. Mention Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Trotsty, Marx, Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Guevara and any other scumbags and the reply is usually "yes, but the Nazis were far worse". They seem to think there is something "romantic" about these names, as they were "freedom fighters" . All as bad as Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels etc in my book. There then follows a discussion about which murderers were worst (!!) Not sure why you'd class Marx, a theoretical philosopher who lived quietly in North London, as.a "mass murderer"? Likewise Castro and Guevara: middle-class professionals who forsook a life of privilege to fight against a corrupt and brutal dictator who had basically put Cuba in hock to the Mafia. Ho Chi Minh - successfully helmed his people's fight against Japanese and then French colonialism. Do you consider any anti-colonial leader a "mass murderer"? Be careful with your scatter gun comments. Also remember that the Nazis were not the only far-right psychopaths who had usurped the reins of power . Latin American; African and Asian history is full of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Not sure why you'd class Marx, a theoretical philosopher who lived quietly in North London, as.a "mass murderer"? Likewise Castro and Guevara: middle-class professionals who forsook a life of privilege to fight against a corrupt and brutal dictator who had basically put Cuba in hock to the Mafia. Ho Chi Minh - successfully helmed his people's fight against Japanese and then French colonialism. Do you consider any anti-colonial leader a "mass murderer"? Be careful with your scatter gun comments. Also remember that the Nazis were not the only far-right psychopaths who had usurped the reins of power . Latin American; African and Asian history is full of them. Take your point about Marx. The rest however used violence to either gain power, stay in power, or both. Communism only remained in place in those countries because democracy was dismantled, and one party states were formed. As with North Korea, any dissent was usually followed by death. The same result as the Latin American countries you referred to. I stand by what I said, both as bad as each other. "Scatter gun", really ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Just now, The Gasbuster said: Take your point about Marx. The rest however used violence to either gain power, stay in power, or both. Communism only remained in place in those countries because democracy was dismantled, and one party states were formed. As with North Korea, any dissent was usually followed by death. The same result as the Latin American countries you referred to. I stand by what I said, both as bad as each other. "Scatter gun", really ? There wasn't a democracy before Communism in Cuba, or Vietnam, GB. In fact, whatever you think of Castro, he left Cuba with the longest life expectancy and best health system and highest literacy rate in the entire of Latin America. He didn't use power to enrich himself either. I'd say he was a vast improvement on Batista, who embezzled what would be billions in today's money, and allowed Cuba assets to be controlled by the US mafia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said: Although you come across as generally fair and polite, I hardly think the Nationalist/Far Right Movement that you represent can take the moral high ground when it comes to general behaviour. It's a sad truth that the far right movements in the UK over the past 40 years or so have probably done more to turn people off being 'proud to be British' than anyone. To this day they still bastardise the St George's Cross with slogans of hate. I couldn't agree more with every word of that, the only thing I would add is the far left and liberals do as much harm for pigeon holing pretty much everybody especially many hard working probably labour supporting people who ask questions when appropriate as 'closet racists' and 'bigots', that is just the attitude allowed Rotherham and other scandals to go on unabated for far too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Now this is real patriotism, well the first photo is. http://www.ouest-france.fr/insolite/attentats-de-paris-le-systeme-d-ca-marche-si-na-pas-de-drapeau-3872546 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Deal agreed with Turkey:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34957830 It doesn't mention it on the beeb but the German sites are reporting the agreement includes Turkey taking back the "refugees" who have no right of asylum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Really good to see the great unwashed firstly ignore the law of the land and then perpetrate this desecration, shame on them, environmentalists my arse. "Despite the ban issued under a state of emergency after the events of November 13, several thousand demonstrators gathered quietly Sunday at noon on the Republic Square in Paris to form a human chain . But among them hundreds of activists, masked faces, who wanted to do battle with the forces of order took the memorial objects and used them as projectiles at police who responded by throwing tear gas. People have tried to protect the flowers, candles and letters filed in tribute to the victims of the November 13, forming a chain around the statue of the Republic. In vain. "It is a profanation, it's indecent": the Republic Square, impromptu memorial since the attacks of Paris, radical activists do not hesitate to make use of objects left in tribute to victims to do battle with the police on the eve of COP21, the international conference on climate that welcomes Paris from November 30 to 11 December, reports RMC Wednesday. "This statue is the grave of the victims of" chokes Bertrand Boulet, a member of the association "17 never," which maintained the memorial of flowers, candles and small words placed at the foot of the statue after the attacks in January and again after those of 13 November as flower pots, broken glass and candles that adorned the statue of the Republic in honor of the victims lying on the ground at the foot of the forces of 'order. Bertrand Boulet has "hurt the heart." "One struggles to maintain the monument every week, that is the pillar of all the French," he laments. Serena, 18, desperately seeking the candle "glitter brown" filed a few days ago for a friend who has lost a loved one in the attacks. "It's sad," that is supposed to be a place of contemplation " "What right do you and spit on the dead spit on their memory?" Said Laurene, a protester of 19 years. "This week, I saw a father came to express the United States to file a candle for her daughter killed in Bataclan," says this student. These "thugs" qualifies as Cécile Duflot, the EELV MP for Paris, which "have nothing to do with ecology and COP21" are Black Blocs, very violent demonstrators, who have already sacked many cities in occasion of events taking place during international meetings. On the extreme left, very mobile, they are very organized and are already on the French territory pending the Cop21". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Very good analysis: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/29/observer-view-isis-syria-british-military-action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 The ridicule of Corbyn over Syria is very ironic given most of his critics got Iraq wrong while he got it right. Not to mention he was also right about Libya, Kosovo etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 26 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Very good analysis: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/29/observer-view-isis-syria-british-military-action Were you not all for bombing Syria the other day?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 1 hour ago, Collis1 said: The ridicule of Corbyn over Syria is very ironic given most of his critics got Iraq wrong while he got it right. Not to mention he was also right about Libya, Kosovo etc. Courtesy of our dear old friends at the daily mirror and never a truer sentence. "Should we bomb Syria? Captain Hindsight will prove we were wrong, whatever we choose to do" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 16 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Courtesy of our dear old friends at the daily mirror and never a truer sentence. "Should we bomb Syria? Captain Hindsight will prove we were wrong, whatever we choose to do" Hmmmm not really as simple as that though. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq so surely its detractors were proved right to an extent? Hence the irony of people having a pop at JC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Apparently 75% of Labour MP's are against Syria strikes. Don't know what all the fuss was about. JC clearly represents the majority. Also a good voice for millions of Brits who are clearly against these strikes. Democracy wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 28 minutes ago, Collis1 said: Hmmmm not really as simple as that though. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq so surely its detractors were proved right to an extent? Hence the irony of people having a pop at JC. The irony is the person who told us that that there were WMD in Iraq badgered the security services, the legal advisors and doctored evidence to create a situation to go to war is still at large and whether you are for or against the UK bombing Syria at least this time Cameron 'says' that every word in his statement document to the house was vetted by security services and so far nobody has denied that that is what has happened. What went wrong in Iraq and Libya is what the west allowed to happen afterwards, i.e.; believing that we should just walk away and leave them to get on with it, that is just a recipe for disaster of course it is. Corbyn's problem is and will always be, nobody believes that he has a plan for Isis other than not bomb them and he is trying to ride rough shot over 'HIS' shadow cabinet and 'HIS' parliamentary party, that is not democracy certainly not from a pacifist IMO and just for the record I don't see anybody having a go at him for his moral stance, that is fine and good and long held, but maybe his past praise of terrorists is misplaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 25 minutes ago, Collis1 said: Apparently 75% of Labour MP's are against Syria strikes. Don't know what all the fuss was about. JC clearly represents the majority. Also a good voice for millions of Brits who are clearly against these strikes. Democracy wins. I don't think that is so I believe it's 75% of labour members you will find. 44% are labour voters are pro bombing and 30% against and 58% of the total population are pro bombing. Nice spin though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 19 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: I don't think that is so I believe it's 75% of labour members you will find. 44% are labour voters are pro bombing and 30% against and 58% of the total population are pro bombing. Nice spin though. My bad, I actually misread the article when it popped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 28 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: but maybe his past praise of terrorists is misplaced. Praise of terrorists? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 I don't think we should set all credence to a poll taken in the immediate aftermath of the Paris massacre. People need to take a step back to reflect. Our foreign policy should be dictated by rationality, not anger. The reality is, if Cameron gets his mandate to bomb, it'll only be a tokenistic 6 Tornadoes from Cyprus. We might hit a few things that'll minorly inconvenience IS, but when a British bomb accidentally falls on a school or a creche or a wedding party... as it will inevitably accidentally do at some time... you have handed the Islamist apologisers a bigger propaganda coup than any damage to them we have done. We'd also be exposing our pilots to the risk of being shot down and burned alive, like that Jordanian chap. We are already at risk of attck over here thanks to our towing the line of American foreign policy goals for God knows how long. But it isn't from people "sent" here by IS. As in Paris and Belgium, it's from home-grown, mostly British-born sympathisers. Getting involved in yet another conflict in a.Muslim country is only going to exacerbate that risk. Our effort vis a vis Syria should be to try and help find a solution to the Civil War. A negotiated step-down of Assad and perhaps a Sunni political figure in his place. IS won't be around the table, but if we can get Sunni moderates fighting on the same side as Shia, Christians and Kurds they have a chance to roll back the Jihadist mercenaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: The irony is the person who told us that that there were WMD in Iraq badgered the security services, the legal advisors and doctored evidence to create a situation to go to war is still at large and whether you are for or against the UK bombing Syria at least this time Cameron 'says' that every word in his statement document to the house was vetted by security services and so far nobody has denied that that is what has happened. What went wrong in Iraq and Libya is what the west allowed to happen afterwards, i.e.; believing that we should just walk away and leave them to get on with it, that is just a recipe for disaster of course it is. Corbyn's problem is and will always be, nobody believes that he has a plan for Isis other than not bomb them and he is trying to ride rough shot over 'HIS' shadow cabinet and 'HIS' parliamentary party, that is not democracy certainly not from a pacifist IMO and just for the record I don't see anybody having a go at him for his moral stance, that is fine and good and long held, but maybe his past praise of terrorists is misplaced. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/30/syria-airstrikes-jeremy-corbyn-gives-labour-mps-free-vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 18 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: I don't think we should set all credence to a poll taken in the immediate aftermath of the Paris massacre. People need to take a step back to reflect. Our foreign policy should be dictated by rationality, not anger. The reality is, if Cameron gets his mandate to bomb, it'll only be a tokenistic 6 Tornadoes from Cyprus. We might hit a few things that'll minorly inconvenience IS, but when a British bomb accidentally falls on a school or a creche or a wedding party... as it will inevitably accidentally do at some time... you have handed the Islamist apologisers a bigger propaganda coup than any damage to them we have done. We'd also be exposing our pilots to the risk of being shot down and burned alive, like that Jordanian chap. We are already at risk of attck over here thanks to our towing the line of American foreign policy goals for God knows how long. But it isn't from people "sent" here by IS. As in Paris and Belgium, it's from home-grown, mostly British-born sympathisers. Getting involved in yet another conflict in a.Muslim country is only going to exacerbate that risk. Our effort vis a vis Syria should be to try and help find a solution to the Civil War. A negotiated step-down of Assad and perhaps a Sunni political figure in his place. IS won't be around the table, but if we can get Sunni moderates fighting on the same side as Shia, Christians and Kurds they have a chance to roll back the Jihadist mercenaries. Fantastic post, Sir. You should go into politics because we need more common sense like this. We know the 7/7 London attack was because of our intervention in Iraq. We are under a greater threat of attack if we bomb Syria, not less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 interesting 5 minute video re Syria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 42 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: I don't think we should set all credence to a poll taken in the immediate aftermath of the Paris massacre. People need to take a step back to reflect. Our foreign policy should be dictated by rationality, not anger. The reality is, if Cameron gets his mandate to bomb, it'll only be a tokenistic 6 Tornadoes from Cyprus. We might hit a few things that'll minorly inconvenience IS, but when a British bomb accidentally falls on a school or a creche or a wedding party... as it will inevitably accidentally do at some time... you have handed the Islamist apologisers a bigger propaganda coup than any damage to them we have done. We'd also be exposing our pilots to the risk of being shot down and burned alive, like that Jordanian chap. We are already at risk of attck over here thanks to our towing the line of American foreign policy goals for God knows how long. But it isn't from people "sent" here by IS. As in Paris and Belgium, it's from home-grown, mostly British-born sympathisers. Getting involved in yet another conflict in a.Muslim country is only going to exacerbate that risk. Our effort vis a vis Syria should be to try and help find a solution to the Civil War. A negotiated step-down of Assad and perhaps a Sunni political figure in his place. IS won't be around the table, but if we can get Sunni moderates fighting on the same side as Shia, Christians and Kurds they have a chance to roll back the Jihadist mercenaries. Firstly that poll was over the weekend 2 weeks after Paris. The highlighted portion is undoubtedly true, however the EU did not help with a vote last week quoting the human rights of returning jihadist's within the EU, it beggars belief when European leaders are trying tighten borders up and abandoning schengen, that the nutters in the EU parliament take a vote like that. I think the last sentence is what I believe the hope is for any ground offensive, the only difference being is to deal with Assad after any ground offensive, because we will also need his loyal forces, whether we like it or not. Air strikes are just IMO a prelude to this. But I really cannot help but say Turkey IMO is still a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.