Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: I can't see he has been "caught out". As the posts on here show many of us are worried about how "shoot to kill" might be interpreted. As Bill notes, any of us could have been sitting on that tube. Agree to disagree about caught out but it wasn't great. and what Bill doesn't note is that the guy could have been carrying a bomb and hindsight doesn't work in either scenario, as I say attack the senior officers who ****** up on the day not the shooters who had a decision to make, one you and I have never have had to make and don't also forget that there was even suggestion that the briefing that Ian Blair gave may have been deliberately fed to him because his liberal policing strategy was not popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Just now, Esmond Million's Bung said: Agree to disagree about caught out but it wasn't great. and what Bill doesn't note is that the guy could have been carrying a bomb and hindsight doesn't work in either scenario, as I say attack the senior officers who ****** up on the day not the shooters who had a decision to make, one you and I have never have had to make and don't also forget that there was even suggestion that the briefing that Ian Blair gave may have been deliberately fed to him because his liberal policing strategy was not popular. They were looking for a specific person, a suspect. De Menezes looked nothing like him. He was about as similar as Freeman is to Kodjia. Four officers appeared not to have noticed this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 5 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: They were looking for a specific person, a suspect. De Menezes looked nothing like him. He was about as similar as Freeman is to Kodjia. Four officers appeared not to have noticed this. Please be honest are you saying that you would have taken that chance?. You have never been in that position Robbo and never will be, in a high pressure situation like that, the pressure is unbelievable. I worked with a boss once who said to me "I know that I am gung ho and take chances that might cause a huge loss of life and one day my luck will run out", thank god it didn't but the man was a graduate and that is the calibre of knob that make day to day decisions that affect us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 14 hours ago, JM91 said: Good spot. now that you know what one is I invite you to re-read your posts. EMB clearly has more patience than I do, years of listening to socialist nonsense has left me not caring. most of them don't even know what bigoted actually means or how blatently it applies to them. Why did you spend so much time listening to 'socialist nonsense' - were you kidnapped by Ken Livingstone? Contrary to what you said, you give me the impression that you really care (about something or other) hence you wouldn't have bothered posting on an internet forum for Bristol City fans discussing an appalling atrocity. You said that 'most of them don't even know what bigoted actually means' . Did you do a survey of people who spout 'socialist nonsense' asking them to give definitions of various words? Did you ask what 'blatently' meant too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 3 minutes ago, The Bard said: Why did you spend so much time listening to 'socialist nonsense' - were you kidnapped by Ken Livingstone? Contrary to what you said, you give me the impression that you really care (about something or other) hence you wouldn't have bothered posting on an internet forum for Bristol City fans discussing an appalling atrocity. You said that 'most of them don't even know what bigoted actually means' . Did you do a survey of people who spout 'socialist nonsense' asking them to give definitions of various words? Did you ask what 'blatently' meant too? The problem is anybody who doesn't have the same view of the world as Collis is tagged as a bigot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 5 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Please be honest are you saying that you would have taken that chance?. You have never been in that position Robbo and never will be, in a high pressure situation like that, the pressure is unbelievable. I worked with a boss once who said to me "I know that I am gung ho and take chances that might cause a huge loss of life and one day my luck will run out", thank god it didn't but the man was a graduate and that is the calibre of knob that make day to day decisions that affect us all. **** knows Es. I'd never join the police in the first place, but if I did, and I was an armed officer on a mission to stop a known and pictured suspect, I might at least have acquainted myself with what the person I was tasked to stop looked like. The fact that the botched cover up started immediately after the shooting shows that the police realised just how big a **** up they made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said: **** knows Es. I'd never join the police in the first place, but if I did, and I was an armed officer on a mission to stop a known and pictured suspect, I might at least have acquainted myself with what the person I was tasked to stop looked like. The fact that the botched cover up started immediately after the shooting shows that the police realised just how big a **** up they made. That I believe is a distortion of the facts, I thought it was an operation that occurred on the hoof, maybe photofits or even grainy images were sent via mobile phones , I really don't know but it really ain't that easy, I have been on such operations in a different role to theirs and boy it ain't easy and yet again you miss the main point that with operations like this the only people who can start a cover up are the bosses yet again, some get paid loads of money and some do all of the dirty work and then take the shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 15 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: That I believe is a distortion of the facts, I thought it was an operation that occurred on the hoof, maybe photofits or even grainy images were sent via mobile phones , I really don't know but it really ain't that easy, I have been on such operations in a different role to theirs and boy it ain't easy and yet again you miss the main point that with operations like this the only people who can start a cover up are the bosses yet again, some get paid loads of money and some do all of the dirty work and then take the shit. Not at all. It had been set up for a couple of days before. They had very reasonable ID of the suspect and they knew he was a black Somalian. Armed police come in for unfair stick on many occasions. Take the Duggan shooting. No problem with me, reasonable grounds to suspect lives were imminently endangered. This - however - was different. It was a disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Here we go again... It's all kicking off in Mali now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 19 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: Here we go again... It's all kicking off in Mali now Whilst it's right to focus on fighting IS in Syria it shows there is lots more work to be done fighting them in Africa - Mali and Boko Haram in Nigeria for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said: Whilst it's right to focus on fighting IS in Syria it shows there is lots more work to be done fighting them in Africa - Mali and Boko Haram in Nigeria for example. This isn't Isis in Mali, this group lets people who can recite the Quran go unharmed, whereas Isis kills anyone including Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Are Red-Robbo and Collis1 a large enough group to be called a 'Caliphate'? We can either discuss this, or someone can second me, and its a done deal. Uncle TFR (Tornado GR1 armed and ready for launch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 On 18 novembre 2015 17:54:57, Aizoon said: So just what won't be banned under the caliphate? Will our only entertainment be stoning adulterers (just the female ones, obviously). They say the Koran is a good read , you can go to a mosque five Times a day and how about Mecca for your holidays ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 12 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: Not at all. It had been set up for a couple of days before. They had very reasonable ID of the suspect and they knew he was a black Somalian. Armed police come in for unfair stick on many occasions. Take the Duggan shooting. No problem with me, reasonable grounds to suspect lives were imminently endangered. This - however - was different. It was a disgrace. They knew he was a black Somalian. Well that narrows it down a bit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 1 minute ago, Major Isewater said: They knew he was a black Somalian. Well that narrows it down a bit . I'll get YOUR coat, or have you already left? Uncle TFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 1 minute ago, Taxi for Rennie said: I'll get YOUR coat, or have you already left? Uncle TFR I was replying to an absurd statement . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Just now, Major Isewater said: I was replying to an absurd statement . I'm sure you were, but Collis1 has probably seen you post and sent it to the ISIS political correct squad. Would you like to add anything to your statement? Uncle TFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 7 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: They knew he was a black Somalian. Well that narrows it down a bit . They knew the name of the attempted bomber. He left his rucksack with lots of identifying items and dabs on them. That's why they were staking out a council flat he had lived in a year previously. The "absurd " statement I was making was that apparently no officers could tell the difference between a Caucasian Brazilian and a black African. If you think you might be similarly confused, you'll find an address for your nearest Specsavers in Yellow Pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calculus Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 On 18/11/2015 16:54:57, Aizoon said: So just what won't be banned under the caliphate? Will our only entertainment be stoning adulterers (just the female ones, obviously). You might be pleasantly surprised. Caliphate TV could have shows like Strictly No Dancing, I'm a Jihadi Get Me Out of Here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 1 minute ago, Calculus said: You might be pleasantly surprised. Caliphate TV could have shows like Strictly No Dancing, I'm a Jihadi Get Me Out of Here. I can't get Caliphate TV - is it because the Mendips are in the way, or BigTone's ego? Either way, I think I am missing out. What time is Collis1 reading the news?? Uncle TFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 5 minutes ago, Taxi for Rennie said: I can't get Caliphate TV - is it because the Mendips are in the way, or BigTone's ego? Either way, I think I am missing out. What time is Collis1 reading the news?? Uncle TFR Are you a camel? You can call me 'Collis' by the way. The '1' is only there for administration purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 1 minute ago, Collis1 said: Are you a camel? You can call me 'Collis' by the way. The '1' is only there for administration purposes. Leave me alone, you ****g bully. Uncle TFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 24 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: They knew the name of the attempted bomber. He left his rucksack with lots of identifying items and dabs on them. That's why they were staking out a council flat he had lived in a year previously. The "absurd " statement I was making was that apparently no officers could tell the difference between a Caucasian Brazilian and a black African. If you think you might be similarly confused, you'll find an address for your nearest Specsavers in Yellow Pages. That is absurd . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 46 minutes ago, Taxi for Rennie said: Leave me alone, you ****g bully. Uncle TFR Charming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said: They knew the name of the attempted bomber. He left his rucksack with lots of identifying items and dabs on them. That's why they were staking out a council flat he had lived in a year previously. The "absurd " statement I was making was that apparently no officers could tell the difference between a Caucasian Brazilian and a black African. If you think you might be similarly confused, you'll find an address for your nearest Specsavers in Yellow Pages. Some people find it difficult to fully read, digest and understand posts on here and have and will never be put into a situation that is impossible to replicate, but think they know how they would react under those circumstances, which is beyond belief. There was a failure on the day and that failure came from above, all of the way, the first mistake I understand was from security services at the address who mis identified him and my further understanding was that the people following were constantly seeking clarification and were not getting it, the minute he entered the underground they were on their own and it was a tragic disaster waiting to happen but i'm sure you would done things differently, it was a 50/50 decision, so maybe you would have made the correct decision, who knows, it was tragedy and should not have happened, but sometimes and maybe cynically it's the nature of the beast during the events of that day and days before and days to come, will happen it again yes of course it will, do we ignore these ongoing and sometimes confusing scantily intelligence led operations?, well i'll leave that to your conscience not mine. One last point as George Galloway pointed out last night, Corbyn appears to have confused 'shoot to kill' with 'ongoing atrocity', they are 2 different things entirely and not something a politician who as we know is steeped in the history of the Northern Ireland troubles should have confused and this is a poor comparison to use in which to seek to defend him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Some people find it difficult to fully read, digest and understand posts on here and have and will never be put into a situation that is impossible to replicate, but think they know how they would react under those circumstances, which is beyond belief. There was a failure on the day and that failure came from above all of the way, the first mistake I understand was from security services at the address who mis identified him and my further understanding was that the people following were constantly seeking clarification and were not getting it, the minute he entered the underground they were on their own and it was a tragic disaster waiting to happen but i'm sure you would done things differently, it was a 50/50 decision, so maybe you would have made the correct decision, who knows it was tragic and should not have happened, but sometimes and maybe cynically it's the nature of the beast during the events of that day and days before and days to come, will happen it again yes of course it will, do we ignore these ongoing and sometimes confusing scantily intelligence led operations, well i'll leave that to your conscience not mine. One last point as George Galloway pointed out last night, Corbyn appears to have confused 'shoot to kill' with 'ongoing atrocity', they are 2 different things entirely and not something a politician who as we know is steeped in the history of the Northern Ireland troubles should have confused and this is a poor comparison to use in which to try to defend him. I understand what you're saying Es, but the armed officers involved believed they were about to prevent an atrocity, so there is some point of similarity. In such circumstances jumpiness and adrenaline rush is inevitable, but training really should have made them realise that their target looked nothing like the danger man they had been told they were stopping and his MO and appearance was not that of a suicide bomber. Hopefully procedures have been tightened up so such screw up can never happen again. I don't think Corbyn has criticised the action of police in Paris, or said that in similar circumstances our police shouldn't do the same. If he has then I'll join in your condemnation of him. We obviously need police to protect us under such extreme circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 17 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: I understand what you're saying Es, but the armed officers involved believed they were about to prevent an atrocity, so there is some point of similarity. In such circumstances jumpiness and adrenaline rush is inevitable, but training really should have made them realise that their target looked nothing like the danger man they had been told they were stopping and his MO and appearance was not that of a suicide bomber. Hopefully procedures have been tightened up so such screw up can never happen again. I don't think Corbyn has criticised the action of police in Paris, or said that in similar circumstances our police shouldn't do the same. If he has then I'll join in your condemnation of him. We obviously need police to protect us under such extreme circumstances. For the highlighted portion, the armed team following him, were constantly seeking confirmation that they had the right man, that confirmation was asked for just prior to communications being lost on entering the underground, please tell me what would you would have done, even given the description differences (and bearing in mind this morning the French have released a photo believed to be the 'organiser' of the Paris attack in disguise) would you have made the decision it's not him let him go?. I don't understand your final sentence at all, I thought we established last night, that I am not and the question asked of him was not aimed at the French police in Paris, the question was basically 'do you support the policy with an 'ongoing terrorist atrocity' to shoot to kill the terrorist', my belief is that he misunderstood the question and ignored or misheard the 'ongoing terrorist atrocity' bit and focused on the shoot to kill policy as he understood it from the Northern Ireland troubles, they are two totally different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 1 hour ago, Collis1 said: Are you a camel? You can call me 'Collis' by the way. The '1' is only there for administration purposes. As in ... 'You can call me Al ?' ..... ' and Taxi when you call me Taxi you can call me.... Collis ! ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 38 minutes ago, WhistleHappy said: As in ... 'You can call me Al ?' ..... ' and Taxi when you call me Taxi you can call me.... Collis ! ' "You funny guy - ISIS kill you last". Collis1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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