IAmNick Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 It is ironic someone says people disagreeing with you is not ignorance, then the next two posts quoting it are saying people who disagree with it are "incapable of free thought" and "the scum of this country". As I understand it, Corbyn said he wasn't happy with the shoot to kill policy, and it can be counter productive so security should prevent people firing off weapons in public where they can. He then said "Surely we have to work to try and prevent these things from happening, that has to be the priority" - makes sense to me and seems quite balanced. I like that I rarely see armed police in this country, and I often find it very unnerving abroad. He then clarified by saying "I support the use of whatever proportionate and strictly necessary force is required to save life in response to attacks of the kind we saw in Paris." I certainly don't agree with him over everything but to cause such a fuss over what sound like pretty balanced things to me based off out of context quotes seems rather sad. Makes good headlines and perpetuates the image of him though I guess. If we behave like animals to rid ourselves of animals (ISIS) that's sad in my opinion, and wherever possible we should strive to uphold the values in our society that these monsters abuse in theirs otherwise we're not really that much better than them. And no, I am not naive enough to think we should walk at them and give them a hug etc. and they'll see the error of their ways. A bullet in their heads would have some satisfaction for sure, but things like a trial etc. is the kind of behaviour that we are trying to protect and show is the more moral/human whatever way of life, which seems a little backhanded if we don't adhere to it ourselves - within reason, of course. I'm not implying you walk at a monster like the people in Paris the other night with a pair of handcuffs and the number of a good lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 4 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Well let me just say this, I live in country with an inept lily livered socialist president who had a chance to tighten security up after Charlie Hebdo and didn't and is partially to blame for Friday's events and is now busily closing the stable door and trying to appear tough luckily the French public don't believe him, perhaps the time he spent shagging any female politician in his party and the occasional power crazed actress and his disastrous failed attempt at taxing the rich, he might have achieved something positive. So my answer is I do not like any politician who weakens a country's ability to defend itself and makes inane ill informed comments about how people who unlike him do not and would not put themselves in a position to have too make that split second decision just so has he can hug another terrorist. Reading that I presume you feel the same about Cameron?, after all, he's decimated the army,navy and police forces of this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM91 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 34 minutes ago, Collis1 said: Yet you didn't address my points. Socialism didn't start this mess, it was free market capitalism that armed and funded dictatorships in the middle east. It is people on the right that always gloss over this. It is people on the left that warned you that mass migration and terroism would happen as a result of Iraq war and it fell on deaf ears. Im not the one on another planet here. Eugh. you people are the distant minority and frankly, bore the rest of us to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 1 minute ago, JM91 said: Eugh. you people are the distant minority and frankly, bore the rest of us to death. Great input. Im sad you feel that way. Socialism gave us some amazing things that we take for granted. Its not perfect but the free market is more damaging then you would imagine. Be careful what you wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM91 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 3 minutes ago, Collis1 said: Great input. Im sad you feel that way. Socialism gave us some amazing things that we take for granted. Its not perfect but the free market is more damaging then you would imagine. Be careful what you wish for. Of course it did, as did the free market. and if you're actually intelligent the balance between the two is the most important. But people who gravitate towards free market politics aren't so preachy and self-righteous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 1 minute ago, JM91 said: Of course it did, as did the free market. and if you're actually intelligent the balance between the two is the most important. But people who gravitate towards free market politics aren't so preachy and self-righteous. To be fair, I have always said that the free market has its positives I just think it has too much control now. In this country for example we are in danger of losing our voices and everything is being run for profit so less rights for workers etc etc. You know the score... Preachy and seld righteous? I think you need to be a bit in here to survive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 57 minutes ago, Collis1 said: Yet you didn't address my points. Socialism didn't start this mess, it was free market capitalism that armed and funded dictatorships in the middle east. It is people on the right that always gloss over this. It is people on the left that warned you that mass migration and terroism would happen as a result of Iraq war and it fell on deaf ears. Im not the one on another planet here. Wasn't it a Labour leader (Blair) who started the Iraq War? Or the war on terror anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM91 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said: Wasn't it a Labour leader (Blair) who started the Iraq War? Or the war on terror anyway Thats the best bit, despite being Labour they all call Mr Blair right wing. couldnt make it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 2 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: Wasn't it a Labour leader (Blair) who started the Iraq War? Or the war on terror anyway Ah but the easy get of jail card is that Blair was not "proper" labour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 4 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: Wasn't it a Labour leader (Blair) who started the Iraq War? Or the war on terror anyway Yep. I hate him. 1 minute ago, The Batman said: Ah but the easy get of jail card is that Blair was not "proper" labour Not going to dissapoint you - he of course wasn't 'proper' labour. Thatcher famously said that Blair was the Tories biggest ever achievement. Like him or hate him a Jeremy Corbyn labour party actually stands for what the party was orignally meant for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howey_ducky Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 3 minutes ago, Collis1 said: Yep. I hate him. Not going to dissapoint you - he of course wasn't 'proper' labour. Thatcher famously said that Blair was the Tories biggest ever achievement. Like him or hate him a Jeremy Corbyn labour party actually stands for what the party was orignally meant for. Outdated and at a struggle to get a grasp of the world that is going on around them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 4 minutes ago, howey_ducky said: Outdated and at a struggle to get a grasp of the world that is going on around them? Unlike the tories who are obviously living in the real world.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM91 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 5 minutes ago, Collis1 said: Unlike the tories who are obviously living in the real world.... you're clearly quite young, presumably at uni. you'll grow out of this socialist phase soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howey_ducky Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 14 minutes ago, Collis1 said: Unlike the tories who are obviously living in the real world.... You'll realise, hopefully sooner rather than later, the world isn't all love and flowers. There are some good drugs out there however, get some of them down you before it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 8 minutes ago, JM91 said: you're clearly quite young, presumably at uni. you'll grow out of this socialist phase soon enough. Pathetic patronising comments mate. Sorry to dissapoint you, but I'm not at university and I doubt I will change my opinion because I believe in fighting climate change, inequality and many other issues that the tories/free market doesn't care about. 4 minutes ago, howey_ducky said: You'll realise, hopefully sooner rather than later, the world isn't all love and flowers. There are some good drugs out there however, get some of them down you before it's too late. Oh dear, not sure what you mean? I know the world isnt all 'love and flowers'. Partly due to the influx of right wing economies that puts profit ahead of people. Theres really not much I dont know about how the world works, I have read lots of books on the subject and been lucky enough to work in some other countries thats given me persepctive. No comment on the drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 51 minutes ago, JM91 said: Thats the best bit, despite being Labour they all call Mr Blair right wing. couldnt make it up. He was on the right wing side of the Labour party, nothing to make up, it's a fact ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 39 minutes ago, JM91 said: edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 2 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: Oh dear! Your starting to make this thread a bit desperate. If you don't like what someone says then debate it, or put your views across, cheap playground jibes just make you look stupid really! That's funny becaus cheap playground jibes are all I ever hear from lefties these days. As someone else said, any opinion other than theirs is derided as 'ignorant', 'racist', etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I come from a perspective that most of the values and rights we now take for granted in this country, have over the years been earned by progressives and those left of centre, and been resisted strongly by 'the right'. My view. It does not make me not understand any less the real world. It just means I come to a different judgement on what I see. The Corbyn narrative in the press however over shoot to kill does in my mind sum up his niavity in a leadership role however. We do not have a shoot to kill policy, in the sense I think it means. Cameron will not come out and say we have a shoot to kill policy. We have a policy of reasonable force, we train people to apply it, and leave the professionals to apply that training operationally, which may involve fatal force. A more skilled politician would have avoided the question entirely, and instead have supported the current policy and said they have confidence in it. Instead, in answering a question about a hypothetical policy which everyone defines differently, he opens the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 8 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: That's funny becaus cheap playground jibes are all I ever hear from lefties these days. As someone else said, any opinion other than theirs is derided as 'ignorant', 'racist', etc Just look back on this page. The insults mainly seem to be coming from one direction, words like scum banded around. You are setting up your own straw man to knock down in a fit of indignation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 9 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: That's funny becaus cheap playground jibes are all I ever hear from lefties these days. As someone else said, any opinion other than theirs is derided as 'ignorant', 'racist', etc Come off it man. There are attacks on both sides. I just got called self righteous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 19 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: That's funny becaus cheap playground jibes are all I ever hear from lefties these days. As someone else said, any opinion other than theirs is derided as 'ignorant', 'racist', etc Ah right!! So it's lefties now Funny how I see this every time the opposite side ( righties??) can't handle the opposite view than there's! A classic case of,you can't handle the " lefties" opinions because you always think your opinion is correct. In case you didn't know, other people have other opinions, handle it! I actually deleted my previous post, because I decided I just couldn't be bothered to get into a left right slanging match. But hey ho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 2 minutes ago, Collis1 said: Come off it man. There are attacks on both sides. I just got called self righteous I agree, there are. Anyway, sorry to sound like Bono but shouldn't we all be casting aside our petty political differences at this point in time, and standing together? Blimey, the world has enough meanness and spite in it already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM91 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 46 minutes ago, Collis1 said: Pathetic patronising comments mate. Sorry to dissapoint you, but I'm not at university and I doubt I will change my opinion because I believe in fighting climate change, inequality and many other issues that the tories/free market doesn't care about.. Yeah you "believe" in that stuff, yet when it comes to achieving it there is a different matter. Failure after failure is the definition of left wing politics. Just look at Scotland now, their left wing SNP shout about the same issues as you yet have overseen a period of extensive widening in inequality in terms of education and pay and ended up attempting to gain independence on the back of oil revenue. Sooner or later the left wing succumb to reality. It's easier to start from reality rather than ignore it and deal with the consequences later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 1 hour ago, JM91 said: Yeah you "believe" in that stuff, yet when it comes to achieving it there is a different matter. Failure after failure is the definition of left wing politics. Just look at Scotland now, their left wing SNP shout about the same issues as you yet have overseen a period of extensive widening in inequality in terms of education and pay and ended up attempting to gain independence on the back of oil revenue. Sooner or later the left wing succumb to reality. It's easier to start from reality rather than ignore it and deal with the consequences later. edit: cant be bothered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippin cider Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 All kicked off again ....police raid on apartment block in northern Paris ....at least 2 dead including a woman that detonated her suicide vest.....4 police injured....3 arrests made....no civilians involved thankfully.....hope they've got the people involved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grove park city Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 5 minutes ago, Slippin cider said: All kicked off again ....police raid on apartment block in northern Paris ....at least 2 dead including a woman that detonated her suicide vest.....4 police injured....3 arrests made....no civilians involved thankfully.....hope they've got the people involved... Good hope the bitch suffered . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 9 hours ago, JM91 said: Yeah you "believe" in that stuff, yet when it comes to achieving it there is a different matter. Failure after failure is the definition of left wing politics. Just look at Scotland now, their left wing SNP shout about the same issues as you yet have overseen a period of extensive widening in inequality in terms of education and pay and ended up attempting to gain independence on the back of oil revenue. Sooner or later the left wing succumb to reality. It's easier to start from reality rather than ignore it and deal with the consequences later. I don't want to hijack this thread because we have done this to death previously - so last point on this. But your last sentence is terribly defeatist and untrue. I actually think it is people like you who are not in 'reality'. The route we are going down now is incredibly dangerous. Not just for the environment but we are in danger of losing workers rights, an increase in inequality between the rich and the working class, more crime due to the gap between rich and poor etc. I have never said that socialist polices and economics would solve all our problems but I am certain that the current way we are headed is not good. There would be no harm in a labour government coming back in and taking some power back from the corporates who are essentially running the world and oppressing us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted November 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 37 minutes ago, Slippin cider said: All kicked off again ....police raid on apartment block in northern Paris ....at least 2 dead including a woman that detonated her suicide vest.....4 police injured....3 arrests made....no civilians involved thankfully.....hope they've got the people involved... I only caught a bit this morning but sky news said that one death was a passer by who got caught up in the raid. Maybe they were identified as an accomplice or maybe they were just injured. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 19 minutes ago, Big Brother said: Shouldn't you two get a room ... I mean start a thread about politics - I promise I'll contribute if you do. There's a ton of news around this specific thread topic, and more coming down the pipe, that I'd like to see comment on, but it's getting buried. Good morning, Bigot Brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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