The Gasbuster Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 28 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: E's, the point is, he wasn't a terrorist, it could have been you or me sitting reading a paper. I said it earlier, all Corbyn said was that he wasn't happy about shoot to kill. You ( and the right wing press) obviously have your own thoughts on those three little words, but that's all it is, thoughts. Most people don't have a problem with it. You told me you don't read the papers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 hour ago, Portland Bill said: E's, the point is, he wasn't a terrorist, it could have been you or me sitting reading a paper. I said it earlier, all Corbyn said was that he wasn't happy about shoot to kill. You ( and the right wing press) obviously have your own thoughts on those three little words, but that's all it is, thoughts. Most people don't have a problem with it. Bill the point is, can you tell who is or is not a terrorist by just looking at them?, that is some super hero talent if you can, try it Bill, you really have no idea what you are talking about, you really don't. it's easy to sit in the warm safety of an ivory tower, because of the people who actually risk their lives to give people that safety and criticise about things that they know absolutely nothing about, but knowing that they wouldn't have the guts to even attempt to do what these people do. We should be supporting our troops and police during these troubled times, not attempting to put extra unnecessary obstacles in their way, because they will have to make a lot split second decisions and guess what?, they will get some wrong, try it Bill it's not a happy place to be. I cannot imagine the full hell that the police who entered the Bataclan had to deal with and many UK police and Special forces must now be imagining it because of the description from the French police union man and you and others just want to criticise, it's pathetic. Most people in your circle maybe Bill, but plenty of other people do have a problem with those 3 little words, it showed how little he knows about things that are common sense to most normal people. Here's a sobering thought Bill just imagine if the police had the right to strike and decided that the next couple of weeks would be a good time to do that and to leave absolutely no emergency cover whatsoever if you get my drift?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 hour ago, Portland Bill said: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-ahead-of-david-cameron-in-latest-net-satisfaction-ratings-a6740611.html What a strange distortion of figures there from the dear old Guardian and there was more great news today as well Bill, labour are 2% ahead of the tories in Scotland, you know the country that labour used to rule until 6 months ago, happy days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 36 minutes ago, The Gasbuster said: You told me you don't read the papers ! Haha! The Sunday Independant local edition is as far as I go :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 38 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Bill the point is, can you tell who is or is not a terrorist by just looking at them?, that is some super hero talent if you can, try it Bill, you really have no idea what you are talking about, you really don't. it's easy to sit in the warm safety of an ivory tower, because of the people who actually risk their lives to give people that safety and criticise about things that they know absolutely nothing about, but knowing that they wouldn't have the guts to even attempt to do what these people do. We should be supporting our troops and police during these troubled times, not attempting to put extra unnecessary obstacles in their way, because they will have to make a lot split second decisions and guess what?, they will get some wrong, try it Bill it's not a happy place to be. I cannot imagine the full hell that the police who entered the Bataclan had to deal with and many UK police and Special forces must now be imagining it because of the description from the French police union man and you and others just want to criticise, it's pathetic. Most people in your circle maybe Bill, but plenty of other people do have a problem with those 3 little words, it showed how little he knows about things that are common sense to most normal people. Here's a sobering thought Bill just imagine if the police had the right to strike and decided that the next couple of weeks would be a good time to do that and to leave absolutely no emergency cover whatsoever. At no time have I said anything about the police and the French police doing anything wrong. I have just stated what happened to a Brazilian bloke, what's that got to do with the great job the French Police did at the weekend? My post was simply pointing out what 'could' happen and what 'did' happen. I think the police do a great job re the terrorists, so your preaching to the wrong person. You accuse me of criticising them, perhaps you can show me where please. Nobody I know,or work with has batted an eyelid over Corbyn saying 'he's not happy' it's not an issue to 99% of people. You live in France and read the Daily Mail online, you couldn't be further away from what the ordinary working person I know thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 28 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: What a strange distortion of figures there from the dear old Guardian and there was more great news today as well Bill, labour are 2% ahead of the tories in Scotland, you know the country that labour used to rule until 6 months ago, happy days. It's the Independent E's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 5 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: It's the Independent E's There you go Bill see how easy it is to make a mistake even when all of the evidence is front of you?. Just goes to prove the Mr Mcdonnell and I should have fully read the publication that we held up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 FFS: no-one is shooting anyone on TFR's watch. "Calm down and carry on!!" ****g TFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 I live just over 4 hours from Paris and have been out and about every single day since the attacks of Friday night and have the following observations. The car parks at all retail outlets are in many cases deserted, which is unusual to say the least there are not a lot of people out and about at all. I have been in supermarkets, DIY stores, bars and restaurants and many other usually crowded shopping areas, malls and it is incredibly quiet, all of the roads are quiet, it is quite eerie even this far from Paris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Bill the point is, can you tell who is or is not a terrorist by just looking at them?, that is some super hero talent if you can, try it Bill, you really have no idea what you are talking about, you really don't. it's easy to sit in the warm safety of an ivory tower, because of the people who actually risk their lives to give people that safety and criticise about things that they know absolutely nothing about, but knowing that they wouldn't have the guts to even attempt to do what these people do. We should be supporting our troops and police during these troubled times, not attempting to put extra unnecessary obstacles in their way, because they will have to make a lot split second decisions and guess what?, they will get some wrong, try it Bill it's not a happy place to be. I cannot imagine the full hell that the police who entered the Bataclan had to deal with and many UK police and Special forces must now be imagining it because of the description from the French police union man and you and others just want to criticise, it's pathetic. Most people in your circle maybe Bill, but plenty of other people do have a problem with those 3 little words, it showed how little he knows about things that are common sense to most normal people. Here's a sobering thought Bill just imagine if the police had the right to strike and decided that the next couple of weeks would be a good time to do that and to leave absolutely no emergency cover whatsoever if you get my drift?. I agree with the general thrust of what you say here, in terms of the call the police on duty had to make that day. Equally, you could make that argument for anyone being shot at any time, on the basis 'how can they be sure they are not a terrorist'. There was a shocking failure of intelligence up the line here. Once the armed police believed, and were briefed, they were facing a potential terrorist, the outcome became almost pre-determined. Of course, the one thing that is unforgiveable in my view were the lies the high command allowed to be told to cover up the mistake. As you say, mistakes happen. Part of living in a democracy however is that we have every right to be told the truth about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 7 minutes ago, cityexile said: I agree with the general thrust of what you say here, in terms of the call the police on duty had to make that day. Equally, you could make that argument for anyone being shot at any time, on the basis 'how can they be sure they are not a terrorist'. There was a shocking failure of intelligence up the line here. Once the armed police believed, and were briefed, they were facing a potential terrorist, the outcome became almost pre-determined. Of course, the one thing that is unforgiveable in my view were the lies the high command allowed to be told to cover up the mistake. As you say, mistakes happen. Part of living in a democracy however is that we have every right to be told the truth about them. Absolutely spot on my friend but of course as with all disciplined services the blame will always sift down to the plebs, the ones that put their lives on the line and take all of the risks. I will make a fairly educated guess that a majority of the senior officers involved in every part of the failure of that day will have been promoted to higher office. it's a pity that some people who believe they have all of the answers and half of the story, feel the need to pass judgement on these brave people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 6 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Absolutely spot on my friend but of course as with all disciplined services the blame will always sift down to the plebs, the ones that put their lives on the line and take all of the risks. I will make a fairly educated guess that a majority of the senior officers involved in every part of the failure of that day will have been promoted to higher office. it's a pity that some people who believe they have all of the answers and half of the story, feel the need to pass judgement on these brave people. Or offered early retirement on full pension and are now happily sitting on boards of various security companies earning a fat cheque for half a day`s work a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 The BBC are reporting that IS have executed a Chinese hostage along with a Norwegian. Some very angry noises coming out of Beijing. Could it be that the beast has been awoken? Apparently (and I have no source for this) Uighur separatists have been fighting with IS in Syria & Iraq and the Chinese are worried about terrorism arriving at home as a result. Given that the Chinese are not known for their restraint when it comes to threats to their country, who knows where this could lead now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 7 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said: The BBC are reporting that IS have executed a Chinese hostage along with a Norwegian. Some very angry noises coming out of Beijing. Could it be that the beast has been awoken? Apparently (and I have no source for this) Uighur separatists have been fighting with IS in Syria & Iraq and the Chinese are worried about terrorism arriving at home as a result. Given that the Chinese are not known for their restraint when it comes to threats to their country, who knows where this could lead now. Well it would appear that Isis have done something that has never happened before, pissed off the whole world and maybe the whole world is actually going to sort this out together?, the French are now working hand in hand with Russia, the USA is now sharing intelligence with France which means Russia will be getting it, Russia brings Syria and Iran with it and maybe now even China, us and the Yanks bring Saudi, Jordan, Turkey and probably Egypt. isn't that a thought?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Just need to get India onside even if it`s just to sit there on Pakistan`s southern border - that might be helpful too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Well it would appear that Isis have done something that has never happened before, pissed off the whole world and maybe the whole world is actually going to sort this out together?, the French are now working hand in hand with Russia, the USA is now sharing intelligence with France which means Russia will be getting it, Russia brings Syria and Iran with it and maybe now even China, us and the Yanks bring Saudi, Jordan, Turkey and probably Egypt. isn't that a thought?. The enemy of my enemy is my friend? If only it were that simple - I don't think anyone knows who they are even fighting any more, pretty sure we've all backed everyone within a 1,000 mile radius of Syria in the last 20 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Sounds like a real life Dr Evil is running ISIS. Have they demanded 1 MILLLION DOLLARS yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKHSAE1gIs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 11 minutes ago, IAmNick said: The enemy of my enemy is my friend? If only it were that simple - I don't think anyone knows who they are even fighting any more, pretty sure we've all backed everyone within a 1,000 mile radius of Syria in the last 20 years! and that is surely the point really and something that should bring joy to Jeremy Corbyn's heart, if and of course it's an incredibly big if, the rest of world do manage to work together to rid the world of Isis, why shouldn't they all then work together to make sure the sins of the past are not revisited on that area and who knows perhaps Mr Corbyn will be a world leader and take a leading role in those proceedings. Dream? almost certainly but I have never known anyone galvanise world opinion like this, certainly not in my lifetime, Isis are without allies, the acid test will be the first UN resolution and hopefully the words that are acceptable to all parties and no veto's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 4 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: As I said put yourself in their shoes before criticising Robbo, i've been there and it's confusing at best, communications are strained and on the underground don't work well if at all and you literally have a split second to react, the met shooters on the day did not have X-ray vision of course not nobody does, if he had been the real deal and was wearing a vest or his bag contained a device?, some people would say WTF didn't they well ******* shoot?. Your posts come across as if they somehow got off on it, they live with their decision that every day of their lives as well and it could well have had the effect of hundreds of volunteers saying **** it why should I and the fact that he was South American does not make him immune from being a terrorist. of course if you think you or Corbyn can improve the record at the met feel free, i'm sure that they will welcome your knowledge and input. Es, defend many operations if you like but this one was.a Grade A **** up from start to finish. At the minimum a number of people should've lost their jobs over it. Instead the woman who planned it was promoted and made a Dame! Staking out a flat on the basis of a found library card, when a minutes check with the local authority would've revealed the suspect and his mates had moved out nearly a year before and everyone living there was Latino. Missing the observation because the one officer on duty went for a pee then decided that the figure he'd missed walking away must be the suspect. The laughably named "intelligence officer" on the bus mistaking a light-skinned slender Portuguese Brazilian for a heavy set Somalian with typically negroid features. Then the executioners pumping out shots with only a split second warning - too gungho to clock the man they were killing was the wrong race and was a too lightly dressed to be wearing a concealed suicide belt. ****! Do Jihadist ever sit reading the sports pages as they make their way to an appointment with "Allah "?!! Even the attempted cover up was botched. The so-called "loss" of the CCTV. The lie about running and vaulting the barrier. Contradicted in open court by numerous witnesses, including the station manager, and even some of the police's own notebooks! Nope. It was a cock -up and conspiracy to cover it up on a grand scale and like the similar police cock-up and conspiracy at Hillsborough, it should be reopened and re-examined independently. The idea that the police can get away with anything seriously undermines the credibility of the Met in doing what I recognise is a very difficult job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 14 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Es, defend many operations if you like but this one was.a Grade A **** up from start to finish. At the minimum a number of people should've lost their jobs over it. Instead the woman who planned it was promoted and made a Dame! Robbo you are obviously confused here, I have not defended the operation, I have defended the shooters, if you read the post of City exile from an hour ago and my response to it, you will see exactly what my point is, please read both posts and my response. in short my point is you and Bill are focusing on the shooters and that my friend is nonsense, the highlighted portion is spot on and exactly what I said and is the only point that is in any way relevant to this thread. But let's be clear in the first 5 seconds of the police assault on the Bataclan 'an ongoing atrocity' the bullet proof shield took 27 direct kalashnikov rounds, the shoot out in St Denis involved 5,000 rounds of ammunition, I am really at a loss as to exactly how any of the police involved would have anything other than neutralising the threat as quickly as possible in their minds and that is the common sense that Corbyn should have but never applied when he gave his reply and perhaps even praise for the police action at the Bataclan wouldn't have gone amiss, that is what is expected of prospective world leaders, wouldn't you agree?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Robbo you are obviously confused here, I have not defended the operation, I have defended the shooters, if you read the post of City exile from an hour ago and my response to it, you will see exactly what my point is, please read both posts and my response. in short my point is you and Bill are focusing on the shooters and that my friend is nonsense, the highlighted portion is spot on and exactly what I said and is the only point that is in any way relevant to this thread. But let's be clear in the first 5 seconds of the police assault on the Bataclan 'an ongoing atrocity' the bullet proof shield took 27 direct kalashnikov rounds, the shoot out in St Denis involved 5,000 rounds of ammunition, I really at a loss as to exactly how any of the police involved would have anything other than neutralising the threat as quickly as possible in their minds and that is the common sense that Corbyn should have but never applied when he gave his reply and perhaps even praise for the police action at the Bataclan wouldn't have gone amiss, that is what is expected of prospective world leaders, wouldn't you agree?. I didn't think Corbyn had criticised the French police's actions has he? I think he is unhappy at the thought we may get a repeat of the shenanigans I detailed above here. My.apologies if I've missed some critical soundbite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 56 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said: Just need to get India onside even if it`s just to sit there on Pakistan`s southern border - that might be helpful too. Helpful for what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howey_ducky Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Robbo you are obviously confused here, I have not defended the operation, I have defended the shooters, if you read the post of City exile from an hour ago and my response to it, you will see exactly what my point is, please read both posts and my response. in short my point is you and Bill are focusing on the shooters and that my friend is nonsense, the highlighted portion is spot on and exactly what I said and is the only point that is in any way relevant to this thread. But let's be clear in the first 5 seconds of the police assault on the Bataclan 'an ongoing atrocity' the bullet proof shield took 27 direct kalashnikov rounds, the shoot out in St Denis involved 5,000 rounds of ammunition, I am really at a loss as to exactly how any of the police involved would have anything other than neutralising the threat as quickly as possible in their minds and that is the common sense that Corbyn should have but never applied when he gave his reply and perhaps even praise for the police action at the Bataclan wouldn't have gone amiss, that is what is expected of prospective world leaders, wouldn't you agree?. What was the door reinforced with is one of many questions i'd like answered and where is Abaaoud now? He sure wasn't at the bottom of the rubble as is the story being touted around from the French media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said: I didn't think Corbyn had criticised the French police's actions has he? I think he is unhappy at the thought we may get a repeat of the shenanigans I detailed above here. My.apologies if I've missed some critical soundbite. Robbo please read what i'm saying, where have I said he criticised the French police actions?, what I have said is most prospective world leaders might have said something along the lines of "I would like to commend the bravery of the French police who stormed the Bataclan and the hell that they must have faced". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 3 minutes ago, howey_ducky said: What was the door reinforced with is one of many questions i'd like answered and where is Abaaoud now? He sure wasn't at the bottom of the rubble as is the story being touted around from the French media. Sorry you've lost me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Just now, Esmond Million's Bung said: Robbo please read what i'm saying, where have I said he criticised the French police actions?, what I have said is most prospective world leaders might have said something along the lines of "I would like to commend the bravery of the French police who stormed the Bataclan and the hell that they must have faced". So your criticising him for something he hasn't said and imply this suggests he would not want officers to defend themselves and the public in the way they did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howey_ducky Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Just now, Esmond Million's Bung said: Sorry you've lost me. I was just making a point about the 5000 rounds used to deal with the cousin and a few people who showed resistance in the latest police raid in paris mate. Not really aiming the question at you, just that you mentioned the 5000+ shots fired so i quoted what you'd said as to help put my question in to context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: So your criticising him for something he hasn't said and imply this suggests he would not want officers to defend themselves and the public in the way they did? No what I am saying is that he has to learn to think on his feet and a message like that might have given his words on the shoot to kill a different interpretation, i.e. i'm not comfortable but understand the reasons why this happens. Be honest as deceitful as Cameron is would he or any of his front bench been caught out like that?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: No what I am saying is that he has to learn to think on his feet and a message like that might have given his words on the shoot to kill a different interpretation, i.e. i'm not comfortable but understand the reasons why this happens. Be honest as deceitful as Cameron is would he or any of his front bench been caught out like that?. I can't see he has been "caught out". As the posts on here show many of us are worried about how "shoot to kill" might be interpreted. As Bill notes, any of us could have been sitting on that tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 7 minutes ago, howey_ducky said: I was just making a point about the 5000 rounds used to deal with the cousin and a few people who showed resistance in the latest police raid in paris mate. Not really aiming the question at you, just that you mentioned the 5000+ shots fired so i quoted what you'd said as to help put my question in to context. All I can say mate is this, special forces say you go on firing until either you run out or their all dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.