Turkey's 'Minute of Silence'

[ten minutes of rough]

7 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Me too and that is bollocks with all due respect

In hindsight I was a bit trigger happy in posting that, shouldn't have generalised. Maybe the locals had a different opinion of servicemen as opposed to civvies. Although I took a non biased view of the Arab, the feeling I had was one of underlying dislike for the West, perhaps their reasons were justified in their eyes. However I do believe we in the West do take people too much on trust, hence the current problems with the "enemy within' in France. 

I do believe there is a lot of tacid support for IS, which was the point I made regarding the minutes silence debacle.

We need to get real about the real danger that Islam presents, no good thinking that it won't effect us here, it will, luckily we are an Island, and also have more stringent immigration controls, but having a soft attitude will only play into the terrorists hands, God only knows what number of potential attacks on this country are thwarted.

So with all due respect, we need to be aware.

[ten minutes of rough]

5 hours ago, richwwtk said:

Could you please name one nation that is excited about terrorism and looking forward to similar?

Some people maybe, I'll even grant you some 'organisations', but to speak of a whole nation doing so is just crass.

I could, but I won't on line.

[Guest]

 

56 minutes ago, ten minutes of rough said:

 

We need to get real about the real danger that Islam presents

What, nothing? Agree there's a lot of dangers emanating from cults purporting to represent Islam, but I disassociate IS et al completely from Islam.

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, 29AR said:

 

What, nothing? Agree there's a lot of dangers emanating from cults purporting to represent Islam, but I disassociate IS et al completely from Islam.

Agree with this. IS is no more a representative of Islam as the KKK were of Christianity.

[exAtyeoMax]

6 hours ago, Lord Northski said:

I think Andrew Neil sums it up for most of us in this clip from his spot on the BBC last night. I challenge anyone not to to agree with every word 

You'll need to click the video link

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/andrew-neil-delivers-best-opening-address-ever-to-jihadist-losers-about-futility-of-isis-terror-a6741496.html

Probably the ultimate "Tell it like it is" you'll ever see on the BBC

Shame he'll probably get fired for saying it.

Good for him! Well said Mr Neil

[ten minutes of rough]

49 minutes ago, 29AR said:

 

What, nothing? Agree there's a lot of dangers emanating from cults purporting to represent Islam, but I disassociate IS et al completely from Islam.

Have you read the Sword of Islam? No? Then you should

Have you heard of Trojan Horse in Schools? No? Then you should.

This is not IS,this is Islamic ideology.

Not cults as you describe, but mere momentum for Islam, they will prosper whilst we look the other way.

[BigTone]

4 hours ago, ten minutes of rough said:

 

So with all due respect, we need to be aware.

That is closer to the point

[Moloch]

1 hour ago, ten minutes of rough said:

Have you read the Sword of Islam? No? Then you should

Have you heard of Trojan Horse in Schools? No? Then you should.

This is not IS,this is Islamic ideology.

Not cults as you describe, but mere momentum for Islam, they will prosper whilst we look the other way.

The Sword of Islam by Rafael Sabatini? Thanks for the recommendation but it doesn't look a particularly great book, IMO. I've just scanned a chapter or two online here. I guess you meant something else.

Can I ask you why you think that so-called IS represents Islamic ideology? You may be an expert in Islamic Studies or comparative religion, but you haven't written anything to back up your statements.

 

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, ten minutes of rough said:

Have you read the Sword of Islam? No? Then you should

Have you heard of Trojan Horse in Schools? No? Then you should.

This is not IS,this is Islamic ideology.

Not cults as you describe, but mere momentum for Islam, they will prosper whilst we look the other way.

No, TMOR, you are wrong.

The Trojan Horse case, for example, was driven by extremists - moderate muslims lost their posts because they would not condone or support the ludicrous idea.

You must try to distinguish between Islam and normal muslims and extremists, the latter do not represent Islam nor the vast majority of muslims. 

[ten minutes of rough]

22 minutes ago, Moloch said:

The Sword of Islam by Rafael Sabatini? Thanks for the recommendation but it doesn't look a particularly great book, IMO. I've just scanned a chapter or two online here. I guess you meant something else.

Can I ask you why you think that so-called IS represents Islamic ideology? You may be an expert in Islamic Studies or comparative religion, but you haven't written anything to back up your statements.

 

Well back to the OP original point as to why he felt it was a disgrace that Turkey football did not respect the one minutes silence, and then the unverified cars parading the IS flag etc, I merely pointed out Turkey by and large is anti West.

BBC also report as others do that Turkey is one of the biggest bankroller's of IS.

That will do for starter's as a back up

 

 

 

 

[ten minutes of rough]

15 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

No, TMOR, you are wrong.

The Trojan Horse case, for example, was driven by extremists - moderate muslims lost their posts because they would not condone or support the ludicrous idea.

You must try to distinguish between Islam and normal muslims and extremists, the latter do not represent Islam nor the vast majority of muslims. 

No not wrong, you maybe not in agreement but that does not make me wrong. However your tone excludes any possible sensible dialogue with each other, you have form. 

[Moloch]

51 minutes ago, ten minutes of rough said:

Well back to the OP original point as to why he felt it was a disgrace that Turkey football did not respect the one minutes silence, and then the unverified cars parading the IS flag etc, I merely pointed out Turkey by and large is anti West.

BBC also report as others do that Turkey is one of the biggest bankroller's of IS.

That will do for starter's as a back up

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30315092

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29004253

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29052144

I'm not sure that these articles support you.

And referring to the graph above would suggest that there is more support in the UK for so called Islamic State than in Turkey.

By the way, did I find the correct version of "The Sword of Islam"? Or were you referring to something else?

[bristolcitysweden]

What do you expect from a turkey?

[bristolcitysweden]

As long as they turn up on Christmas Day

[Moloch]

1 hour ago, ten minutes of rough said:

Well back to the OP original point as to why he felt it was a disgrace that Turkey football did not respect the one minutes silence, and then the unverified cars parading the IS flag etc, I merely pointed out Turkey by and large is anti West.

BBC also report as others do that Turkey is one of the biggest bankroller's of IS.

That will do for starter's as a back up

Turkey is anti-west?

Turkey? The NATO member Turkey?

The country that wants to join the EU?

Turkey was one of the first members of the Council of Europe and the OSCE. Are you thinking of the big bird that we eat at Christmas? Is that the Turkey you mean?

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/europe/1991-03-01/turkey-and-west

[Moloch]

1 hour ago, ten minutes of rough said:

Well back to the OP original point as to why he felt it was a disgrace that Turkey football did not respect the one minutes silence, and then the unverified cars parading the IS flag etc, I merely pointed out Turkey by and large is anti West.

BBC also report as others do that Turkey is one of the biggest bankroller's of IS.

That will do for starter's as a back up

Back to the original point - as you suggest.

It appears that a number of people booed during the minutes silence. It was a football crowd, sadly there will be idiots.

This article has some further thoughts.

[spudski]

26 minutes ago, Moloch said:

Turkey is anti-west?

Turkey? The NATO member Turkey?

The country that wants to join the EU?

Turkey was one of the first members of the Council of Europe and the OSCE. Are you thinking of the big bird that we eat at Christmas? Is that the Turkey you mean?

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/europe/1991-03-01/turkey-and-west

No offence...but I think you need to do some research on who is Isis biggest funder of money.

Turkey buys between 1 and 2 £million a day of oil from Isis.

There is plenty on the net about it...from all media sources.

[Moloch]

40 minutes ago, spudski said:

No offence...but I think you need to do some research on who is Isis biggest funder of money.

Turkey buys between 1 and 2 £million a day of oil from Isis.

There is plenty on the net about it...from all media sources.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30315092

"Islamic State initially relied on wealthy private donors in the Middle East keen to oust Syria's President Bashar al-Assad.

It now makes between $846,000 (£540,000) and $1.645m (£1.05m) a day selling oil from fields in Syria and Iraq."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29004253

"IS exports about 9,000 barrels of oil per day at prices ranging from about $25-$45 (£15-£27).

Some of this goes to Kurdish middlemen up towards Turkey, some goes for domestic IS consumption and some goes to the Assad regime, which in turn sells weapons back to the group."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/paris-attacks-where-does-isis-get-its-money-and-arms-a6736716.html

"Middlemen smuggle crude oil and refined oil products from Isis-controlled parts of Syria and Iraq to Turkey and Iran. The Syrian Government also reportedly buys some of these products.

Because of sanctions, the caliphate, home to an estimated eight million people, also operates rather like a vast organised crime gang – dealing in cash and contraband products outside legitimate banking channels."

Your post seems to suggest the Turkish government is buying the oil. That does not seems to be the case from these articles. So who in Turkey is buying the oil? I believe it is criminals (based on the fact that the oil is smuggled in to Turkey illegally). So wouldn't it be fairer to say criminals are funding IS?

 

[Guest]

.

[spudski]

Oh come on fella...be real...how do you smuggle oil around a Country without the Government knowing about it?

The 'criminals' are Government led.

This whole Isis mullarky is a farce.

The yanks were training up Isis after the Iraq war....they have been funded and trained by many other countries.

This is all about money...powerful people who want to make more money and have more power.

Making order out of chaos and terror.

Do your research...there is even video evidence on the net, showing Obama saying the Yanks, by his orders, increased training of Isil as they were called then.

It's a joke...and everyone believes everything the likes of Fox and the BBC report....

[New Dazzler]

1 hour ago, Moloch said:

Turkey is anti-west?

Turkey? The NATO member Turkey?

The country that wants to join the EU?

Turkey was one of the first members of the Council of Europe and the OSCE. Are you thinking of the big bird that we eat at Christmas? Is that the Turkey you mean?

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/europe/1991-03-01/turkey-and-west

plus they are currently bombing IS in Syria, which presumably was the reason for the IS Retaliation bombing in Ankara in October.

[Moloch]

51 minutes ago, spudski said:

Oh come on fella...be real...how do you smuggle oil around a Country without the Government knowing about it?

The 'criminals' are Government led.

This whole Isis mullarky is a farce.

The yanks were training up Isis after the Iraq war....they have been funded and trained by many other countries.

This is all about money...powerful people who want to make more money and have more power.

Making order out of chaos and terror.

Do your research...there is even video evidence on the net, showing Obama saying the Yanks, by his orders, increased training of Isil as they were called then.

It's a joke...and everyone believes everything the likes of Fox and the BBC report....

From the FT: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6c269c4e-5ace-11e4-b449-00144feab7de.html#axzz3s4lHcU9b

"Turkey fights the smuggling of oil with determination [and] confiscated 78m litres of smuggled oil last year...

...Mr Cohen stressed that while the Kurdish regional and Turkish governments were committed to stopping Isis’s oil flow – the mainstay of its income – the group was still able to tap into a “longstanding and deeply rooted black market” to line its coffers that had not yet been adequately disrupted."

You say, "do your research" or "there's plenty about it on the net".

Please feel free to link to anything you feel I should read. I'll have a look.

[Moloch]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Do your research...there is even video evidence on the net, showing Obama saying the Yanks, by his orders, increased training of Isil as they were called then.

It's a joke...and everyone believes everything the likes of Fox and the BBC report....

I found a video of Obama saying the US were training ISIL on his orders.

From Snopes.com

"Although the video does include a portion of a speech given by President Obama at the Pentagon on 6 July 2015 about "Progress in the Fight Against ISIL," the suggestion that he "made a shocking admission" about "training ISIL forces" is inaccurate. The President's comments merely included slip of the tongue, as evidenced by the President's following statement (i.e., that Sunni volunteers were being trained as "a new force against ISIL") and a correction issued by the White House (which noted President Obama's slip and placed the word "Iraqi" in brackets where it should have been used):

Is that the evidence you mean?

[Moloch]

oops

[Son of Fred]

20 hours ago, Lord Northski said:

I think Andrew Neil sums it up for most of us in this clip from his spot on the BBC last night. I challenge anyone not to to agree with every word 

You'll need to click the video link

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/andrew-neil-delivers-best-opening-address-ever-to-jihadist-losers-about-futility-of-isis-terror-a6741496.html

Probably the ultimate "Tell it like it is" you'll ever see on the BBC

Shame he'll probably get fired for saying it.

Isn't creme brulee an English dish???

[archie andrews]

13 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

No, TMOR, you are wrong.

The Trojan Horse case, for example, was driven by extremists - moderate muslims lost their posts because they would not condone or support the ludicrous idea.

You must try to distinguish between Islam and normal muslims and extremists, the latter do not represent Islam nor the vast majority of muslims. 

distinguish between islam and normal muslims and extremists?

[Gakoe]

Very interesting debate guys. Some informative links. Something I have wondered in the past though is why can't we identify the 'rouge' refineries, platforms etc and attack them, ceasing production and stopping the income? Too simplistic I guess but cutting the source of income is surely the only way to stop them waging war?

[spudski]

9 hours ago, Moloch said:

From the FT: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6c269c4e-5ace-11e4-b449-00144feab7de.html#axzz3s4lHcU9b

"Turkey fights the smuggling of oil with determination [and] confiscated 78m litres of smuggled oil last year...

...Mr Cohen stressed that while the Kurdish regional and Turkish governments were committed to stopping Isis’s oil flow – the mainstay of its income – the group was still able to tap into a “longstanding and deeply rooted black market” to line its coffers that had not yet been adequately disrupted."

You say, "do your research" or "there's plenty about it on the net".

Please feel free to link to anything you feel I should read. I'll have a look.

There is plenty out their fella.

I tend not to read and believe everything said by Agenda led media platforms. Many are owned by companies that want us to believe differently.

I haven't got time to go looking for links...but there is conflicting stories everywhere on nearly every subject.

Of course the white house are going to say 'it's a slip of the tongue'.

Of course Turkey are going to say they have 'confiscated the oil'

But ask yourself... who do you think trained Isis...where do they get their weapons and who supplies them and manufactures them, where do they get all their money....where does all their oil go and why do you never see pictures or interviews with the people organising the boats and crossings for the immigrants? And why are there a majority of single healthy young men making these crossings ? etc,etc,etc.

[BigTone]

1 hour ago, archie andrews said:

distinguish between islam and normal muslims and extremists?

Philinfrance will be writing for hours to answer that one. Probably best to do your own research and it will explain clearly enough

[Moloch]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

There is plenty out their fella.

I tend not to read and believe everything said by Agenda led media platforms. Many are owned by companies that want us to believe differently.

I haven't got time to go looking for links...but there is conflicting stories everywhere on nearly every subject.

Of course the white house are going to say 'it's a slip of the tongue'.

Of course Turkey are going to say they have 'confiscated the oil'

But ask yourself... who do you think trained Isis...where do they get their weapons and who supplies them and manufactures them, where do they get all their money....where does all their oil go and why do you never see pictures or interviews with the people organising the boats and crossings for the immigrants? And why are there a majority of single healthy young men making these crossings ? etc,etc,etc.

If there is "plenty out there" it is not going to take long to find a link.

On the Obama video, I think by referring to the context of the whole speech it is obvious that he made a slip of the tongue. Someone has taken a small piece of it, out of context, to make a funny video. I'm sure you are completely aware of this and are just playing about.

In your last paragraph, you pose many rhetorical questions. I think the most interesting is "where does the oil go?" I was reading a piece on a conspiracy website which drew a comparison between the ISIL/ISIS control of oil fields, and the price of oil. There is a correlation and the author was keen to suggest that the reason was that rich families of commodity traders in the UK and US were buying the oil and selling it on. I haven't got time to find the link, but the evidence is out there.