George Ferguson (Merged many times)

[joe jordans teeth]

Is this really a thought experiment or the daily mail / nigel farages greatest scaremongering hits?

Here are some actual facts for you, I can source them all if you wish:

Immigrants are roughly 4.5% of our population, but are only responsible for 2% of NHS expenditure - in fact British expats cost more than them per head... whoops! "Health tourism" is in total 0.06% of our NHS budget as of then end of 2014. And this is ALL immigrants here, not just recent ones - most immigrants who come here are young and healthy don't forget.

However, your "temporary shortage of medical staff" is in fact over a THIRD of our current doctors. 2% of NHS expenditure, 1/3 of our doctors? Hmm.

If you're an immigrant, you have around a 23% chance of claiming benefits at some point if you arrived after the year 2000. If you're a UK national they have a 40% chance. In fact every year the vast majority of immigrants come here for work - there are around 5 million benefit claimants (of all types) here each year. Of these, just over 131,000 (or 2.5% ish) are immigrants, and only 65k of these are on actual jobseeker's allowance. Amusingly, around 2.5% of Britons living abroad in other EU countries claim unemployment benefits.

People aren't at food banks because johnny foreigner has snapped up his job, you can't honestly believe that. The sad thing is that anyone in this country is in such a crap situation they are having to claim emergency food - not where they came from.

Additionally, this whole thing seems to misunderstand or just forget the fact that there IS a difference between a refugee and an immigrant. Or people just use it as an excuse to repeat the same anti-everyone rhetoric. Nigel talks no sense, he spouts nonsense and throws blame around which is very easy to do when you have no power and don't actually have to act on any of your words - the lib dems made a party out of doing just that after all. If you really believe deporting 10% of the countries population based on where they came from will sort this current mess out then and turn this into a "lovely society" I don't know what to say.

I'm sure if Mr Farage were on here now he'd blame the forums recent slow loading speed on the millions of foreigners using the internet in this country, just like his motorway trips!

 

immigrants are roughly 4.5% of our population is fact your saying,fact is a strong word,go and source it please

[chipdawg]

The problems Europe is facing are not because of what Merkel has done  in the last couple of weeks, it's because of what Merkel, Cameron, Hollande, et al. HAVEN'T done for the last couple of years. The problem has been building for 4 years and all the leaders of Europe and the world buried their heads in the sand and hoped for the best

And no one in the establishment- not even Marshy's bestie Nigel- have offered a single viable solution to what's happening. "We'll let people in who've already got here". "We'll let people in as long as they haven't got here". "We'd let people in if they follow the right religion". NONE OF THOSE ARE SOLUTIONS TO THE CURRENT CRISIS. They're reactionary sticking plasters to a problem (both from the point of view of people who'd welcome refugees and those who want them to go elsewhere) that needs (needed, several years ago) a proactive response

 

[Barrs Court Red]

The problems Europe is facing are not because of what Merkel has done  in the last couple of weeks, it's because of what Merkel, Cameron, Hollande, et al. HAVEN'T done for the last couple of years. The problem has been building for 4 years and all the leaders of Europe and the world buried their heads in the sand and hoped for the best

And no one in the establishment- not even Marshy's bestie Nigel- have offered a single viable solution to what's happening. "We'll let people in who've already got here". "We'll let people in as long as they haven't got here". "We'd let people in if they follow the right religion". NONE OF THOSE ARE SOLUTIONS TO THE CURRENT CRISIS. They're reactionary sticking plasters to a problem (both from the point of view of people who'd welcome refugees and those who want them to go elsewhere) that needs (needed, several years ago) a proactive response

 

Correct. Had red ed not ambushed the government on air strikes to support the FSA, with their momentum at the time the conflict would have been over.  The west dithered, the conflict reached stalemate and the two big jihadi groups took support from disenfranchised rebels.

ISIS would not have taken Anbar province in Iraq, although I wouldn't rule out continued jihadi insurgency in Sunni areas within Syria.

I think partition is the only outcome to secure peace now, but that would need to include the creation of a Kurdish state, which Turkey, Iraq and Iran will not allow.

[BS2 Red]

T

o be clear, I am not a racist or supremacist - I would totally encourage every nation to defend it's way of life.  So yeah, a UK that had 2-3% or less non-European population would indeed be a beautiful thing, a celebration of British life and values and tradition: That thought was mine, in the moment, when I wrote that post.

What do you mean by "non-European" population? Because if that means "non-white" then I am afraid you are a racist.

[BCFC Jimmer]

 

Nick
I'm not here to defend Nigel Farage (he's not Nationalist enough imo) and I don't read the Daily Mail (though I have quoted from it), I am not reading much news at the moment for various reasons. 

You are entitled to your opinion and your stats but I don't agree with either. My view is that people have a right to exist and a right to self-determination in their homeland, this includes English people.  It's an unpopular opinion especially among the political class: the flag of St George and 'white van man' are mocked or sneered at in many circles and I don't like it - those things are part of me and part of the culture of the majority people I've seen at football grounds.  

The people of every country have a right to defend their way of life, traditions and heritage.  The reality of the situation is that this right is under threat due to mass immigration, both in the UK and across Europe. To be clear, I am not a racist or supremacist - I would totally encourage every nation to defend it's way of life.  So yeah, a UK that had 2-3% or less non-European population would indeed be a beautiful thing, a celebration of British life and values and tradition: That thought was mine, in the moment, when I wrote that post.  

Btw Nick I didn't use the phrase 'johnny foreigner', you did, I don't even think that way - that came from your perspective, your caricature of people with opinions like mine.  I love Europe, and I've loved most countries I have worked (8) or lived (3) in, with the exception of the African countries.  

One other thing to remember: the cultural heritage of Britain does not include minarets, halah foods or Sharia law. Those are imposed on our culture.

Crikey, I hope that the people you met in the other countries you have lived in didn't share your sentiments.  if I move back to Johannesburg permanently would I not be considered an immigrant? Or is it a one way thing.

Nick made some excellent points that dismiss many of the stereotypes about immigration. You don't seem to be interested in addressing them. I think in this post we have uncovered that really you have a one track mind on the whole issue.  Essentially, even if we could prove beyond doubt that immigration was not causing pverty and social problems in the UK, you still wouldn't give a toss?

Personally, I find the argument of preserving British values blah blah blah a load of rubbish.  I mean, times are changing - its a small world these days - we have to move on.  Settlements come and go, we are flying on a big rock hurtling through space so these kind of things are not really worth worrying about.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The problems Europe is facing are not because of what Merkel has done  in the last couple of weeks, it's because of what Merkel, Cameron, Hollande, et al. HAVEN'T done for the last couple of years. The problem has been building for 4 years and all the leaders of Europe and the world buried their heads in the sand and hoped for the best

And no one in the establishment- not even Marshy's bestie Nigel- have offered a single viable solution to what's happening. "We'll let people in who've already got here". "We'll let people in as long as they haven't got here". "We'd let people in if they follow the right religion". NONE OF THOSE ARE SOLUTIONS TO THE CURRENT CRISIS. They're reactionary sticking plasters to a problem (both from the point of view of people who'd welcome refugees and those who want them to go elsewhere) that needs (needed, several years ago) a proactive response

 

Sadly gorgeous George Galloway called it correct about 18 months ago (it had to happen eventually I suppose), Isis should have properly dealt with on the ground by Saudi Arabia and Iran, we know they both have the military might, because as he pointed out in the case of the Saudi's we sold them most of it, but as usual these 2 peaceful nations find it easier to just murder and torture their own and having not intervened to deal with Isis they are not taking any significant amounts of refugees either.

The UK government will not criticise the Saudi's because of oil and money and the US of A will not criticise Iran because of it's fragile 'deal' on 'nuclear power'.

But what Merkel has done is totally irresponsible, she has let the rest of the EU off of the hook and with a scapegoat and far less safe, i'd be interested in her popularity rating within Germany.

 

[chipdawg]

Sadly gorgeous George Galloway called it correct about 18 months ago (it had to happen eventually I suppose), Isis should have properly dealt with on the ground by Saudi Arabia and Iran, we know they both have the military might, because as he pointed out in the case of the Saudi's we sold them most of it, but as usual these 2 peaceful nations find it easier to just murder and torture their own and having not intervened to deal with Isis they are not taking any significant amounts of refugees either.

The UK government will not criticise the Saudi's because of oil and money and the US of A will not criticise Iran because of it's fragile 'deal' on 'nuclear power'.

But what Merkel has done is totally irresponsible, she has let the rest of the EU off of the hook and with a scapegoat and far less safe, i'd be interested in her popularity rating within Germany.

 

The issue of whether there should have been military intervention is seperate. For what it's worth I think we probably should have supported the FSA militarily, but that wouldn't necessarily have decreased displacement of people and who knows what effect that would have had on the conflict as a whole?

What should have happened is that 4 years ago, Europe's leaders should have for together and said "not only do we have a humanitarian duty to help people displaced by war on our borders, if we can provide for these people within their region- help create infrastructure, build schools and jobs, generate employment opportunities- we'll minimise the need and desire to come to Europe, so saving us the costs and problems associated with mass, disorganised immigration of refugees". But none of them had the foresight and now not only are the people fleeing Syria and Iraq suffering for it, our leaders political credit is taking a battering too. Nobody wins

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The issue of whether there should have been military intervention is seperate. For what it's worth I think we probably should have supported the FSA militarily, but that wouldn't necessarily have decreased displacement of people and who knows what effect that would have had on the conflict as a whole?

What should have happened is that 4 years ago, Europe's leaders should have for together and said "not only do we have a humanitarian duty to help people displaced by war on our borders, if we can provide for these people within their region- help create infrastructure, build schools and jobs, generate employment opportunities- we'll minimise the need and desire to come to Europe, so saving us the costs and problems associated with mass, disorganised immigration of refugees". But none of them had the foresight and now not only are the people fleeing Syria and Iraq suffering for it, our leaders political credit is taking a battering too. Nobody wins

 

it goes back further than that, Spunkett should not have insisted on Sangatte being closed.

With joint funding it could been properly used and expanded to process refugees and in a country where access to human rights parasite lawyers would not have been allowed to interfere with that process, it could have been a template for the whole of Europe.

As I say my only problem is the lack of checks on these people, the lack of control and then the parasite lawyers using the human rights act to lumber the UK with dangerous people indefinitely. 

[IAmNick]

 

Nick
I'm not here to defend Nigel Farage (he's not Nationalist enough imo) and I don't read the Daily Mail (though I have quoted from it), I am not reading much news at the moment for various reasons. 

You are entitled to your opinion and your stats but I don't agree with either. My view is that people have a right to exist and a right to self-determination in their homeland, this includes English people.  It's an unpopular opinion especially among the political class: the flag of St George and 'white van man' are mocked or sneered at in many circles and I don't like it - those things are part of me and part of the culture of the majority people I've seen at football grounds.  

The people of every country have a right to defend their way of life, traditions and heritage.  The reality of the situation is that this right is under threat due to mass immigration, both in the UK and across Europe. To be clear, I am not a racist or supremacist - I would totally encourage every nation to defend it's way of life.  So yeah, a UK that had 2-3% or less non-European population would indeed be a beautiful thing, a celebration of British life and values and tradition: That thought was mine, in the moment, when I wrote that post.  

Btw Nick I didn't use the phrase 'johnny foreigner', you did, I don't even think that way - that came from your perspective, your caricature of people with opinions like mine.  I love Europe, and I've loved most countries I have worked (8) or lived (3) in, with the exception of the African countries.  

One other thing to remember: the cultural heritage of Britain does not include minarets, halah foods or Sharia law. Those are imposed on our culture.

Hi, sorry firstly for the johnny foreigner comment mate it was unfair you're right, and thanks for the thought out response.

I actually agree with much of what you say in essence - in fact it's hard to disagree that people have a right to exist where they are, and their way of life, traditions and heritage. I can't say I feel particular love for the flag, or the royal family, or anything like that, but I like England, I like living here, and I like the way our country works (for the most part), if that counts. The lossof their culture/values etc. is exactly what most of these poor b*stards are experiencing during the loss of in their homelands when all they want to do is live their lives, just like us.

I can honestly say though I don't feel our way of life, whatever that is, is under threat - Britain still is what is is, you don't have to look too far back to see we all came from somewhere else at one point or another, who's to say the time right now is really British and needs to be preserved for ever as it exists in the year 2015, as opposed to Britain, 10, 50, 100, 500, 1000+ years ago? Maybe our kids in the future will see a large diverse society as "British" and be proud of that, and try to defend that! You never know.

You're right Sharia law etc. is not the cultural heritage or Britain, but I wouldn't say it is becoming so - there are a few Shaira courts yes but they only have jurisdiction on civil matters and people have to opt in to them. For the record I am reasonably strongly anti-religion in general  (and certainly anti the oppression present in many religious based societies) so I don't agree with the courts being here, just trying to be fair.

[BS2 Red]

It means non-European.

That's not an answer.

You would like to see a UK that has a non-European population of less than 3%. The only thing I can assume you mean by that is that you think the UK would be beautiful if non-whites made up less than 3% of the population.

If what I have written is accurate then you are a racist no matter how much you try to deny it.

[BCFC Jimmer]

Two issues:

1. You can do anything with stats. I'd be more than happy to go for it but I don't have the time. And you'd never change your mind. One thought though: the Government doesn't even have an accurate count of how many people live in the UK.

2. Your last sentence - phrases like "give a toss" are kind of disparaging, don't you think? And give a toss about what?  That there are too many immigrants in the UK and it will be a big problem for my children? Yeah I give a toss about that.  And it's madness to state immigrants are not causing problems. 

 

Quite obviously so. I do not. I see a lot of value in who we are, our history, and so on. They say about the environment - "We are borrowing it from our grandchildren", I think the same way about European culture, and you'll miss it when it's gone.

 

 

Lets stop beating around the bush here Big Bro.

You dont want anyone here who isn't of British origin. If you had complete power of this country you would shut the doors and dare I say it want to send people back.

No argument from anyone is going to change your frankly outragous belief. Im sorry if I sound like a dick but thats the only reason I can get the message across - you sound like a smart guy as well so I don't want to patronise you anymore.

Finally, I think a bigger problem for your children will be climate change, war, and continued opression by the powers that govern us. Im sorry, but you are using immigrants as a scapegoat for problems that are much bigger.

 

[BS2 Red]

Are you demanding an answer from me

Do you think it's racist to want to defend European culture?

 

I am not demanding anything, I just said you never answered the question.

It's not racist to want to defend European culture.

It is racist to desire a UK made up of 97% white (or European if you prefer) people.

[Red-Robbo]

 

 

 

 

Please don't misuse the phrase "cultural Marxism" to mean political correctness,  Rads. 

I used to make this point repeatedly to the autistic bloke who used to post here.  I realise that American paleo-conservative polemicists habitually confuse the two,  but look up on Wikipedia what it really means

Thanks.

[BCFC Jimmer]

 

Your story still doesn't add up to me - Surely immigration doesn't mean you can't keep your much desired 'values'.  Your stance has absolutely no balance so that's why people are accusing you of being racist.

I think you are beating around the bush. Whenever it cuts to the chase, you go back to sweeping generalizations like "It's extremely foolish, for example, to allow foreigners into the country that hate your values,". But anyone with half a brain cell realises that immigrants with those kind of views are an extreme minority.

Also this thing of people imposing their culture on us?! What country are you living in?! I have lived in areas with high levels of immigration, e.g Brixton - Nobody has ever tried to impose their values on me. 

Oh, and I like Morris dancing, having pints in the pub, apologizing a lot and eating roast dinners. I also like going to Ethiopian and Sril Lankan restaurants, speaking to people from different backgrounds and cultures etc. There is nothing stopping me doing either.

You would make everyone work for their benefits?! What about disabled, or mentally ill people?

I was wondering if you align yourself to a political party? Because lets be honest your views would never allow you to back one of the mainstream parties? You are certainly further to the right than Conservatives and even UKIP.

 

 

[Red-Robbo]

Was reading about CM recently. Didn't CM lead to PC?  Genuine question btw.

Not really. I wouldn't say Marxists were necessarily politically correct. Take your mate Putin for example. 

It's two different things. The meaning of cultural Marxism has become blurred by its incorrect use by politically illiterate Septics.

[IAmNick]

What is everyone's obsession with bloody benefits. The entire welfare budget is less than 10% of our total budget each year (it's 54.4 billion total), and of that hardly any of it is unemployment benefits! 2.4 billion out of our budget of 587.7 billion, or 0.4% is unemployment benefits, and 2.7 billion (about the same) is housing benefits.

For perspective replacing Trident will apparently cost around £100 billion, or £100,000,000,000. That could fully fund our entire welfare, education, or defence budget for 2 years - or the entire unemployment benefit so many people hate for the entire country  for over 40 years! 

[WhistleHappy]

What is everyone's obsession with bloody benefits. The entire welfare budget is less than 10% of our total budget each year (it's 54.4 billion total), and of that hardly any of it is unemployment benefits! 2.4 billion out of our budget of 587.7 billion, or 0.4% is unemployment benefits, and 2.7 billion (about the same) is housing benefits.

For perspective replacing Trident will apparently cost around £100 billion, or £100,000,000,000. That could fully fund our entire welfare, education, or defence budget for 2 years - or the entire unemployment benefit so many people hate for the entire country  for over 40 years! 

....disgraceful stigmatisation by Government of the weaker members of society unfortunate enough and having to resort to claiming their rightful support from the benefits system that they and their families have paid into during 'good times' while hoping to never having to make a claim due to sickness ill-health homelessness periods of unemployment etc etc.. Sometimes life 'happens' to good honest people, they are not all scroungers, the monetary help they receive barely covers the minimum quality if life, even falling short of that in so many cases.

(phew, sorry about that, pause for breath!)

This Government have pulled off a massive propaganda excercise in creating a general 'shame' amongst the population for claimants and the way non-claiments often view them.... the 'shame' should rightly fall at the feet of Government ministers who deliberately create this them and us, 'unaffordable' myth.. People hear the rhetoric, form their opinions based on biased misinformation at worst or 'spin' at best, ministerial talk of 'helping people' supporting etc all sounds very good to those who havent had the misfortune of experiencing the fear, hardship, stigma of being on the receiving end of suck 'help' and 'support' first hand..

The medicals designed to declare clearly very sick, infirm people as 'fit for work' and promtly stops or 'sanctions' ALL of their income at a stroke, check out the number of 'food banks' -theyre not there for fun but because many many good honest people in our rich country have no option but to go to those places cap in hand for food to survive.

The media seem to have grabbed the opportunity to make some cheap tv...Ever wondered at the number of TV specials/series focusing on Benefits Britain/Benefits Street type 'documentaries'... Most of which seem to want to sensationalise/scandalise and stigmatise in accordance to Government benefits propaganda.

Still alls well, we can sleep comfortable in our beds safe in the knowledge that thousands of needy people are getting a pittance/or often being denied said pittance and being made to feel so guilty about dragging the country to the brink of bankruptcy serves em right dunnit?.. While the great and the good (ahem) of the ruling classes, our lords and ladies are thankfully having their daily subsistence requirement for food and drink barely covered to the tune of £300 a day! each time they sign in ..Bless 'em.

Job seekers less than £75 a week (+some rent benefit minus bedroom tax) each time they sign on - unless they have been sanctioned of course. ... They're bleeding the Country dry after all, aren't they?

[BS2 Red]

I did answer your question, but you didn't accept the answer.  

Let's take Collis' advice and stop beating around the bush and get our definitions on the table.  You're leaning towards calling me a racist (I guess we be grateful that Godwin's law hasn't been invoked ... although it has in other threads) so how about telling me / us how you define 'racist'? Or even 'racism'? I mean you as an individual.  

No you did not answer the question.  I asked you “What do you mean by "non-European" population? Because if that means "non-white" then I am afraid you are a racist.”.

 

You answered “It means non-European.” 

That is not an answer to the question as you have only repeated yourself.  If I asked “What lager is that you are drinking” answering “lager” is not really a proper answer.

I would define racism by the actual meaning of the word.  It would mean prejudice/hatred/discrimination (delete as appropriate) of others based on their race.  Somebody who wishes that the UK had less than 3% non-European (which I can only assume means non-white) would be a racist as you are judging somebodies “Britishness” by their ethnic origin.

The UK (as of the last census) was approximately 87% “white” which is a long way away from your preferred total of 97%.  How do you propose the government get to the level that you wish we had?  Deportation? 

I will come clean here that I have a vested interest in this sort of talk as although I am white (and as far as I know have a long history of British ancestors) my wife is not.  Her parent came to this country in the 60s, she was born here and she is as British as anybody else in my and the laws opinion.  You may well disagree as she does not have European ancestry, that sort of thinking is what leads me to question exactly what you are proposing/wishing here.

[BigTone]

As long as Facebook can offer internet access to the masses then the worlds problems must surely be solved

[Mr Popodopolous]

Agree. In the UK, despite the relatively healthy (though lopsided) economy there is: real poverty - how many are using food-banks to feed their families? Housing poverty - literally families on the streets, and I read that 1 in 5 of the homeless are ex-military; education poverty - a shortage of school places, difficulty accessing higher education for working class people; health poverty as waiting lists increase; over-crowding; the OAP 'heat or eat' scandal and the deaths that follow. 

This is more about national issues and problems than immigration but they can cross over. Very lopsided economy indeed actually, Bristol seems to be full of call centres these days, temp work, employment agency, door to door sales on very variable sometimes commission only pay...could go on and on. And homelessness is really pushing upwards. But lopsided it definitely is...I was in Tunbridge Wells and Canterbury back in December didn't see any beggars in the parts I was in, any homeless, never mind families on the street! Now I know both are much smaller but very lopsided economy you got that right! Healthy economy...depends where also, so many of my mates from Bristol have just upped and left the city- assuming work has something to do.

[BCFC Jimmer]

As long as Facebook can offer internet access to the masses then the worlds problems must surely be solved

As long as people attack innovation and ideas we will never move forward.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

As long as people attack innovation and ideas we will never move forward.

 

As long people merely allow people over borders with no control or checks, there will be trouble, Merkel has ****** up.

 

[BCFC Jimmer]

As long people merely allow people over borders with no control or checks, there will be trouble, Merkel has ****** up.

 

Give it a rest, Nigel

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Give it a rest, Nigel

it's a free country at the moment comrade (that's France and the UK), something that Merkel's stupidity threatens.

 

[BCFC Jimmer]

it's a free country at the moment comrade (that's France and the UK), something that Merkel's stupidity threatens.

 

Incidentally, these events have been a great distraction for the Tories. They have managed to scrap tax credits and force unfair contracts on junior doctors almost unnoticed!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Incidentally, these events have been a great distraction for the Tories. They have managed to scrap tax credits and force unfair contracts on junior doctors almost unnoticed!

Yes but on the other hand thanks to the normal wing in the labour party, the country will still have a nuclear deterrent, swings and roundabouts and all that, perhaps if there was a credible opposition for the first time in 5 years, the tories could be brought to book.

[BCFC Jimmer]

if there was a credible opposition for the first time in 5 years

Doesn't make it right though.

I think we are starting to see now how many people were 'duped' when voting Tory in the last election.  I would bet that a lot of people who were swayed to the Conservatives don't support tax credit cuts and doctor cuts (Not to mention privatizing royal mail etc etc).  More cuts will come and hopefully an anger will build up which will make Corbyns campaign stronger.

I was under some doubt that socialist economics would work in 2015, but the shadow chancellors polices look pretty good to me. Albeit, I am not an economist!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Doesn't make it right though.

I think we are starting to see now how many people were 'duped' when voting Tory in the last election.  I would bet that a lot of people who were swayed to the Conservatives don't support tax credit cuts and doctor cuts (Not to mention privatizing royal mail etc etc).  More cuts will come and hopefully an anger will build up which will make Corbyns campaign stronger.

I was under some doubt that socialist economics would work in 2015, but the shadow chancellors polices look pretty good to me. Albeit, I am not an economist!

Yep he's a saint, as long as he has got enough money left in his budget for a memorial to terrorists the country will be in safe hands, oh yes not forgetting the meat eaters who will have to undergo therapy for their addiction just like smokers.

 

[BCFC Jimmer]

Yep he's a saint, as long as he has got enough money left in his budget for a memorial to terrorists the country will be in safe hands, oh yes not forgetting the meat eaters who will have to undergo therapy for their addiction just like smokers.

 

Sorry, but that is now neither here nor there as far as I am concerned. Maybe you should watch the explanation and humble apology he made on Question Time a few weeks ago -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gq3rv8Gjko

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Sorry, but that is now neither here nor there as far as I am concerned. Maybe you should watch the explanation and humble apology he made on Question Time a few weeks ago -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gq3rv8Gjko

 

You can believe exactly what you like but me like most of the nation, I never believed a word of that that utter shite for a second, humble my arse.