GrahamC Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I know with a squad of about 19 we aren't exactly spoilt for choice, but really disappointing to see him not given a start again today. We've failed to score in five of our last six away games, which suggests that just picking the same 3 midfielders ad infinitum is probably not the solution. At present we have no viable alternative to either Pack or Smith but we do have one for Freeman and it is Bobby. I hear all this "he is only effective for an hour" stuff but would much prefer that was given a try and Freeman (or even Waggy if we were holding on) replacing him late on. Anyway, we badly need at least a point today so good luck to those taking the field in red.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 For a start, he has 2 more open play assists than Freeman in less than 10% of the playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 With the exception of Bryan/Williams, or forced changes due to suspensions, we rarely change the line up, so I never expect it to be different. Trick will be if we are struggling or trying to hold a lead; will we see changes then? COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Isn't the line-up on the Match thread? Pretty much the same as ever with Bryan for Williams, possibly due to injury... Not that I disagree with you. Apart from anything else, we HAVE to try something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 1 minute ago, samo II said: With the exception of Bryan/Williams, or forced changes due to suspensions, we rarely change the line up, so I never expect it to be different. Trick will be if we are struggling or trying to hold a lead; will we see changes then? COYR Nor do I. However there is a difference between "expect" and "want", we've (the Derby game aside) effectively played the same 11 or 12 (as you say, it is Bryan or Williams) for quite some while now and results haven't been good enough. Would Moore for Ayling, Reid for Freeman or controversially Burns (for 1 goal in his last 8 games) Kodjia really not be at least worth a try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I can see this being another Bolasie situation where we deprive him of playing time, force him out the door and watch him turn into a valuable player. Reid has bags of potential and it must be infuriating to see Freeman have poor performance after poor performance and yet he is still picked before him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, pigeon said: I can see this being another Bolasie situation where we deprive him of playing time, force him out the door and watch him turn into a valuable player. Reid has bags of potential and it must be infuriating to see Freeman have poor performance after poor performance and yet he is still picked before him! I'm not really sure how good Reid is. Or Burns come to that. They may prove themselves to be key players to us or they may fizzle out and show they're not at this level. But we're in dire straits and there has to be a point where we find out. If we persist with the team we use now, we know what's going to happen because it's happened all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Don't get me wrong, I would like to see Reid start for a run of games also. However, whilst Freeman has not been as effective as we'd hoped/expected he is being very tightly marked and largely double marked. That of itself creates space for others. It reminds me of Adomah's second season, he's much less effective but his presence alone created space for others. At that time we didn't benefit from this but with Kodjia's movement I think we have been thus far. Freeman is indirectly positively benefiting us but even still he ought to be doing more for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1t_ref_again Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 whilst a few games ago I was crying out for BR to start, Freeman has improved a lot over the last couple of games so should retain his place you sight not scoring goals as reason for change, but its not been a problem of creating chances, its we are not getting shots on target, let alone score them, I do agree we need more goals from midfield but not sure BR will provide any more than the current. would be good to see earlier changes if needed than 80 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Completely agree, I understand the logic of not changing a winning side but not changing a losing side is daft. It's vital you keep all of our subs interested by giving them some playing time, it's a nonsense to only give them 1 minute of a game that is long lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee0 Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I can't believe the stick Freeman gets ! He's far and away the most creative and attack minded midfielder we have, he may not have loads of assists but I lay that fault at the strikers feet. For me our problem lies in Smith/Pack combination, nothing different week after week, 40 yd back passes and 5 yd sideway passes that as often as not go astray, not particularly good defensively. I'm not saying they don't work hard but as an attacking part of the team they are non existent. I'd like to see one of these dropped and Reid and Freeman given the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 16 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: I'm not really sure how good Reid is. Or Burns come to that. They may prove themselves to be key players to us or they may fizzle out and show they're not at this level. But we're in dire straits and there has to be a point where we find out. If we persist with the team we use now, we know what's going to happen because it's happened all season. I agree, I don't think any of us really know how good he is. However, I have been impressed with the very little that I have seen of him and I don't think anyone would argue that he has great potential which at the moment he is being unable to fill due to playing time. For example, on the 'highlights' from our battering on Monday, we had two great chances at the end of the game: 1. Burns chasing down the last defender which resulted in a poor back pass and Burns almost scored a cheeky chip over the keeper 2. Reid causing problems down the left side wins a free kick just outside the area. Reid crosses the ball into the box perfectly which results in a header hitting the post. Just think that these two (especially Reid) deserve a chance just as much as the others, especially as the others aren't performing at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Freeman obviously has it in his contract that he has to play, only logical reason as he has been beyond useless this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 16 minutes ago, Super said: Freeman obviously has it in his contract that he has to play, only logical reason as he has been beyond useless this season. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayteomike2 Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 For me he has been the one spark we have had this season a few mistakes but his efforts are 100% we need a bit more from the rest of the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 This is spot on. You see in every other team some rotating. The teenagers getting chances and becoming assets. Lookman from Charlton has been given a chance and is making the most of it. He's getting a chance to figure this league out. Alex Mowett from Leeds given a chance and is one of the better CM in the league. Look at Tom Lawerence at Blackburn on loan from Leicester. Very comparable with Wes. Similar age, same nationality and similar progression through Wales who haven't been awful recently. Wes had a better scoring record(pretty sure) at the U21 level and Lawernce has a couple full caps. Maybe this is because he is playing regularly. Point is, if these young ones don't take their lumps in professional matches we may as well fold the academy. In the very limited minutes they have shown the quality and attitude to be players that get rotated. Bobby has more assists in open play than Freeman in about 1/10 the playing time. Wes has looked dangerous out of position at WB with his pace and some decent crosses. Yet in a team with 4 wins they can't get a start. Then I hear stuff like bobby can't go a full 90 or gets pushed off the ball too easily. I've seen Freeman pushed off countless times and if Bobby can only go 60-70 it's why we have 3 subs which one would be Luke running at tired legs. Wes is bigger and at least as pacey if not more than Agard. Yet Agard got 6-7 starts in a row and done nothing except harass defenders which I appreciate but I also need goals from you. So why isn't Wes getting at least a look. A start here 20 minutes there. It's our best way of making money but we aren't utilizing it. It's a shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 brilliant from Bobby again today...keeps hold of the ball for 10 seconds too long, loses it in a key position that in turn lead to the goal that cost us the game. Our messiah. Anyone who thinks him and/or Burns are good enough for a squad that is to stay in the Championship - take your head out the sand. Both far far from good enough for us if we want to stay in this division. Really don't understand the love for him on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman Mao Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 3 minutes ago, petehinton said: brilliant from Bobby again today...keeps hold of the ball for 10 seconds too long, loses it in a key position that in turn lead to the goal that cost us the game. Our messiah. Anyone who thinks him and/or Burns are good enough for a squad that is to stay in the Championship - take your head out the sand. Both far far from good enough for us if we want to stay in this division. Really don't understand the love for him on here. wait, after not playing more than 30 mins for over 2 months you are judging him on a 8 min apperance :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamite Red Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Not good enough, end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, Chairman Mao said: wait, after not playing more than 30 mins for over 2 months you are judging him on a 8 min apperance Exactly, can't play more than 30 mins in a side that is in the bottom three. And he couldn't get anywhere near our side in L1. Sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadman Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 pak, smith and freeman just aint working, cant defend cant create, perm any 2 from 3 to be replaced if we ever start getting results again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 24 minutes ago, petehinton said: Exactly, can't play more than 30 mins in a side that is in the bottom three. And he couldn't get anywhere near our side in L1. Sums it up. He played bloody well against Middlesbrough, one of our only wins of the season. He never should of been dropped for Freeman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 53 minutes ago, petehinton said: brilliant from Bobby again today...keeps hold of the ball for 10 seconds too long, loses it in a key position that in turn lead to the goal that cost us the game. Our messiah. Anyone who thinks him and/or Burns are good enough for a squad that is to stay in the Championship - take your head out the sand. Both far far from good enough for us if we want to stay in this division. Really don't understand the love for him on here. "The love" is because Freeman has been nothing short of woeful this season and many of us can clearly see that Reid is the better alternative. How you can slate Reid for losing the ball once and write him off as a player is beyond me when Freeman probably lost the ball more than anyone else today. Reid clearly should be playing from the start. We had 0 shots on target, Freeman is supposed to be our play maker? But I guess you'd keep him in the team because the players who's got the same number of assists in 10% of the minutes isn't good enough to do any better. Reid over Freeman any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddoc Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Reid cost us the game today. Freeman , Pack and Smith had that midfield sewn up in the 2nd half. Wasn't always pretty but worked their butts off to win the ball back when we lost it. When Reid came on they over ran us inevitably. Louis Spence would have proved a tougher opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 3 minutes ago, reddoc said: Reid cost us the game today. Freeman , Pack and Smith had that midfield sewn up in the 2nd half. Wasn't always pretty but worked their butts off to win the ball back when we lost it. When Reid came on they over ran us inevitably. Louis Spence would have proved a tougher opponent. What bollox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 1 hour ago, petehinton said: brilliant from Bobby again today...keeps hold of the ball for 10 seconds too long, loses it in a key position that in turn lead to the goal that cost us the game. Our messiah. Anyone who thinks him and/or Burns are good enough for a squad that is to stay in the Championship - take your head out the sand. Both far far from good enough for us if we want to stay in this division. Really don't understand the love for him on here. A bit harsh to say he's not good enough considering everyone else is struggling, yes he held on to the ball to long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddoc Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 If you say so supe. Just the way I saw it. Lightweight and ineffective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireSection Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 3 hours ago, Lee0 said: I can't believe the stick Freeman gets ! He's far and away the most creative and attack minded midfielder we have, he may not have loads of assists but I lay that fault at the strikers feet. For me our problem lies in Smith/Pack combination, nothing different week after week, 40 yd back passes and 5 yd sideway passes that as often as not go astray, not particularly good defensively. I'm not saying they don't work hard but as an attacking part of the team they are non existent. I'd like to see one of these dropped and Reid and Freeman given the chance. I think you'll find that Smith would walk into most championship teams, Pack is league one at best. the other thing is that they're not really a pairing, Smith does a lot of work off the ball, breaks up play, then passes to Pack whose job is to link Midfield to Forward ideally. Unfortunately Packs first movement is backwards, often putting the defence in trouble I can think of 4 times at Burnley that this happened. I don't really blame Pack, definitely not Freeman either it's the formation, it's completely wrong for the majority of opposition we play and using the same 11 every week makes us pretty simple to work out. In my mind there's simply one thing for it....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 And how many were eager to receive the ball from him. I've seen us lose possession countless times because we have no movement and someone inevitably holds on too long. I wasn't there so I don't know but seems easy to blame it on Bobby for that especially when you don't play him very often. Can't be that surprised that he isn't used to the speed of the game. I don't even need to see Bobby be better or worse than Luke. I need to see him so I can decide then because in his limited time he has been better. So I want to see it over a period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 1 minute ago, JoeAman08 said: And how many were eager to receive the ball from him. I've seen us lose possession countless times because we have no movement and someone inevitably holds on too long. I wasn't there so I don't know but seems easy to blame it on Bobby for that especially when you don't play him very often. Can't be that surprised that he isn't used to the speed of the game. I don't even need to see Bobby be better or worse than Luke. I need to see him so I can decide then because in his limited time he has been better. So I want to see it over a period of time. Exactly, any of his team mates shout that he had a man on his back? To blame him for losing us the game is just plain wrong, the kid gets a few minutes here and there and is expected to perform miracles, seasoned pros couldn't function on so little game time yet, we expect BR too. There's one person to blame for the results and thats the manager. We concede a ton of late goals playing a formation that is heavy on the legs, and we have a manager who insists on not making substitutes and never rests players. Is there any wonder why we concede these goals, blaming Bobby Reid for a defeat is just plain wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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