Thanks Cotts but it's time to go...

[stephenkibby.]

34 minutes ago, miketh2nd said:

I think we have no choice but to keep sc in charge unless we can get a quality manger in that will lure championship players straight away . Otherwise we get a new manger who barely any time to asses the signings we need and then may not be able to lure them here so another wasted window.  

Sorry I can't agree if he stays in charge playing the same players same tactics no subs week after week then nothing changes.

Of coarse it's a gamble who ever came in could turn things around in the time needed.

But the link now between cotts and Lansdown seems totally broken, so if he stays and were relegated what happens then?

It must surly be untenable for both parties to continue.

Or do you think that lansdown is already resigned to the drop and will then appoint another lower league manager?

[deadredfred]

For me the table says it all. At the start of the season there were matches where I felt we were genuinely unlucky. Unlucky, naive and at times just a little short of the quality required in the Championship. The kind of quality we had in abundance last season because of the comparative level we were competing at. I did think (read: hoped) that after 10-15 matches the team would have settled, the newbies would know their roles and we'd be into the swing of things.

Unlucky moments, missing sitters, misplaced passes etc is what comes with Championship football. I wasn't by any means expecting the perfection of last season.

I had hoped for consolidation this year. Some decent performances, a few real classic battles, a few narrow losses and a couple of thumpings either way.

But halfway through now and we are going blindly into every match in exactly the same way. The same players, the same formation, tactics and setup. All well and good last season, when it worked. But that was league one and we were a class above.

How easy must it be for opposition players and managers to play us?! Before they arrive they know who they are playing and how, and now with the added bonus that they're far fresher than our tired team!

I think with our current team we could compete in this league, but not with the suicidal setup we have. There is good reason that no other team in this league or the Prem line up in the way we do. The championship is as bigger step up from league 1 as it is up to the premiership, but I still believe we have the core squad to make a decent go at it, but under the right guidance and without the blind, kamikaze and frankly inept tactical mis-management.

For me this season was all about progress, finding our feet, completing the stadium and most importantly staying in the league. 

I don't think there can be any doubt from anyone that this is now in real jeopardy. 

Something HAS to change...

 

 

 

 

 

[Olé]

1 hour ago, BristolPete said:

but they are Cotts players - they're his chosen men. He's the manager, the buck stops with him

 

Quote

I agree that getting rid of him will change nothing, but letting him spend money in the transfer market when he is so clearly out of his depth, would compound the problem.

This is insane on so many levels. They were his players to win League One and he did a peerless job at that. How do you know this is still his optimal team for the Championship? His demeanour in all his interviews at the start of the season certainly suggested this wasn't the team he felt was needed. Yes he'll defend them to the hilt and why not, with any experience around them they're mostly players with great potential, but he hasn't had that (and lost Elliot and JET) and these players on their own are struggling, he may wish to sound noble but it's bloody obvious this wasn't the team he planned for this level.

And everyone banging on about the loan signings, do you honestly think he sat down before the summer and picked out some loan signings as his answer to the step up. Of course he didn't, timing of these signings tells you that, this wasn't the group he planned for but he is loyal to it and the players are playing for him, even if they in several cases obviously are not up to it.

For you to insist he doesn't get a chance to spend any money because he is "out of his depth" is hyperbolism of the worst kind - apart from Kodjia (who originally upon signing he said was one for the future) he hasn't signed any Championship players permanently yet, you think it's fair to our best manager of a generation to be convicted now before he's even been able to put a Championship side together. You want to blame him before he's even had the chance.

Cotterill's record on permanent signings stands up against anyone of my generation. When it finally went pear shaped for Gary Johnson he was signing Slovakian full backs he thought were strikers. This guy has young players playing for him and a disastrous summer where we clearly did not get the players we needed. Now is the time to put that right but we already have a mob ready to lynch Cotterill and burn the building down and start again (probably in League One, next season).

[BigAl&Toby]

3 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

He said before the season out players were good enough. Either he lied to us or he believed it. Either way he needs to go. It's not that he's been poor. It's that he's been poor but yet expects things to change without changing. 

I don't believe SL cares too much either. He isn't building Bristol City new stands. He building Bristol Sport new stands. He will get 12k in L1. He will I imagine get something like that in Aviva prem. He will bring in more for events and things at the stadium. He can invest a further 10m in losses into our club yet I don't see him doing it. I don't care about failed bids either. Until he actually splashes this money, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt either. The club from him down is woeful at the moment and the club will not move forward until attitudes are changes. 

Absolutely right. The Lansdowns don't have the interests of BCFC or true supporters at heart. They're only interested in their investment. And sadly as most "investors" know bricks, mortar and steel are far better than mediocre footballers - most of whom depreciate in value.

Little passion shown by the corporate types. Look at the Lansdown's match day expressions and compare them to Marina's.

Reckon the Lansdowns will be amongst the fans at an away game at the end of the season when City are relegated - like Davidson did at Crewe many years ago?

Not a chance.

But hey. Ashton Gate will look fantastic. Reasonable ROIs from 12k every week paying £6 for warm pies and pints with as many other income generating activities to boot........

[View from the Dolman]

2 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Reckon the Lansdowns will be amongst the fans at an away game at the end of the season when City are relegated - like Davidson did at Crewe many years ago?

Like when Steve Lansdown came into the away end at Hull when we had 94 fans following our relegation?

[Spike]

51 minutes ago, Olé said:

 

This is insane on so many levels. They were his players to win League One and he did a peerless job at that. How do you know this is still his optimal team for the Championship? His demeanour in all his interviews at the start of the season certainly suggested this wasn't the team he felt was needed. Yes he'll defend them to the hilt and why not, with any experience around them they're mostly players with great potential, but he hasn't had that (and lost Elliot and JET) and these players on their own are struggling, he may wish to sound noble but it's bloody obvious this wasn't the team he planned for this level.

And everyone banging on about the loan signings, do you honestly think he sat down before the summer and picked out some loan signings as his answer to the step up. Of course he didn't, timing of these signings tells you that, this wasn't the group he planned for but he is loyal to it and the players are playing for him, even if they in several cases obviously are not up to it.

For you to insist he doesn't get a chance to spend any money because he is "out of his depth" is hyperbolism of the worst kind - apart from Kodjia (who originally upon signing he said was one for the future) he hasn't signed any Championship players permanently yet, you think it's fair to our best manager of a generation to be convicted now before he's even been able to put a Championship side together. You want to blame him before he's even had the chance.

Cotterill's record on permanent signings stands up against anyone of my generation. When it finally went pear shaped for Gary Johnson he was signing Slovakian full backs he thought were strikers. This guy has young players playing for him and a disastrous summer where we clearly did not get the players we needed. Now is the time to put that right but we already have a mob ready to lynch Cotterill and burn the building down and start again (probably in League One, next season).

I actually agree that this is not the team he wants for the Championship but it was his job to make it a team he wanted, he had the money, he had the backing and he made the mistakes in either aiming too high or just not being able to land the players he needed.

My concern is that in League One he could almost overspend to get the squad he wanted, and he did spend and he did get the players he wanted but now he can't do that, you don't just go up a division and say "these are the players I want, I'm going to get them all". Man City tried this approach when they came into money and it failed over and over again until they lowered their expectations and brought in Robinho, still a big player but no Messi or Ronaldo, but he was enough to turn a few heads and help Man City improve theor position and then they found they could draw more players which helped them build a squad and more importantly, higher quality interest.

As it stands we've not got the higher level interest but Cotterill seems unwilling to aim for players who fall in the middle, who won't light up the stadium with excitement but will give us better experience and a more solid squad. I think we'll go down due to his stubborn ways in his transfer dealings, he wants it all or not at all and that's not how you transition.

[cottsciderarmy]

7 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Players need to take the blame as well here, they are letting cotterill down yet never get the criticism they deserve. 

I'm not convinced a new manager will get these players playing much better, and if they did you need to ask questions about the players commitment

I disagree, not one single player isn't giving their all, they are trying their best but they aren't good enough. It's a managers job to notice this and change this, Cotts hasn't. He has kept his own group of players in blind faith and hope that they may suddenly improve. We have 4/5 out of 11 who are good enough to hold down first team places in this league (Baker, Bennett, Smith, Bryan, and Kodjia) and around 7 players who just about do a job (Fielding, Flint, Wilbraham, Ayling, Williams, Agard & Little) but we have Pack & Freeman who are seriously struggling but are first names on the team sheet. Burns & Reid aren't given much of a chance and probably aren't good enough but they are better than what we have when given their little cameo's, but they aren't the answer.

Me feeling is we need to revert to a 4-4-2 but our manager wont make changes and it's not the players fault they aren't good enough;

So what is the good enough squad;

Fielding

Bryan 
Baker
Flint
Little - Needs Competition
(Central defender back up needed)

New Left Winger Needed
Smith
New Central Midfielder Needed
Bennett (If he stays)

Kodjia - Needs Competition
Wilbraham - Needs Competition

Bench

New Keeper
Ayling
Williams
Freeman - Better replacement needed
Agard - Better replacement needed
Wagstaff - Better replacement needed 
Striker

We should look to sell Pack, El Abd & Agard, and loan out Burns & Reid to give them game time in league one, so they can come in effective at the end of the season for us, or progress to be first team players next season. We should also loan O'Leary as soon as we get a new keeper as he won't get game time here.

Therefore in my eyes to be competitive in this league we needed a new keeper to challenge Fielding, Cover for Bryan, Right Back to be better than Little, Left winger, Central midfielder, right winger (even if Bennett stays), plus another if he doesn't, A natural goalscorer, a replacement for Wilbraham, back up midfielder and central defender.

Therefore ideally to be a force in this league we are ten quality options short of a competitive team.

Freeman, Pack, Agard, El Abd, Wagstaff & Wilbraham should all be moved out by the summer as they are either past it or not good enough long term, whilst Burns, Reid and O'Leary need game time elsewhere.

Now all these changes won't come in, in January but either Cotts needs to start making the changes now and bring in several right options to at least keep us up, or the board need to wake up and bring in someone who will !

To have a first team of only 5 players who warrant their positions and a number of questionable back up players is what will send us down, but it's not the players fault, no one can say they aren't trying, they just aren't good enough.

[Olé]

^ I hate to be sarcastic but you drop Ayling and treat Bryan as a fixture in the team - how many games have you been to this season mate?

[cottsciderarmy]

2 minutes ago, Olé said:

^ I hate to be sarcastic but you drop Ayling and treat Bryan as a fixture in the team - how many games have you been to this season mate?

I think Ayling is a good player in the central role but Baker is better, and Flint marginally better in my eyes, but think he is solid back up. For me as a left back Bryan is a better option. It's all about opinion and that's mine.

[Olé]

^ fair enough but my opinion is that Bryan to Everton talk has stopped pretty quickly, he has with more or less one game exception, drifted around anonymously and looked scared to get involved. His foul throw today capped a forgettable performance and I'm someone who six months ago was on the Joe Bryan future Bristolian England international bandwagon. He might yet make it if given some Championship experienced players to work with. As I've said elsewhere, we still haven't given him any to work with and yet people are writing the manager off. Happy New Year bud.

[Davefevs]

I do wonder how Max O'Leary will get game time? Anywhere?

Dave Richards still hadn't got any at Crewe, as far as I know.

[cottsciderarmy]

3 minutes ago, Olé said:

^ fair enough but my opinion is that Bryan to Everton talk has stopped pretty quickly, he has with more or less one game exception, drifted around anonymously and looked scared to get involved. His foul throw today capped a forgettable performance and I'm someone who six months ago was on the Joe Bryan future Bristolian England international bandwagon. He might yet make it if given some Championship experienced players to work with. As I've said elsewhere, we still haven't given him any to work with and yet people are writing the manager off. Happy New Year bud.

I agree but I fail to see Bryan has gone from our best player and potentially a quality left back of the future to an average league one player. Ayling was Yeovil's main CB when they were relegated from this league, I like Ayling but he isn't good enough to be a first time starter in this league. For one I actually would rather see him given a chance in midfield playing in Packs position as I think he looks better going forward rather than at the back. 

What you say is true, Cotts hasn't had the chance to work with players good enough at this level, but whose fault is that ? Cotts hasn't tried to realistically recruit any, and hasn't even used Cox who is a Championship standard player. When asked today Cotts said there's no irons in the fire, suggesting he isn't desperate to get in new players so clearly still believes in what we've got. It's Cotts inability that is sending us down and his blind faith loyalty in a team not good enough, that is why he is being written off and the numbers wanting him gone are increasing by the week. Happy new year to you to.

[Olé]

^ Cotts won't reveal a single thing after the shambles in the summer. Remember all those car-crash interviews where he was asked to comment on Gayle and Gray. I cannot believe there are no irons in the fire, he's just low-balling it, if that was really true they can have my season ticket back and I'd guess a few others. 

I don't know if Cotterill had realistic targets last summer but his form from the prior season was good and the imminent lynching seems misplaced before he has even signed a Championship player!

[cottsciderarmy]

1 minute ago, Olé said:

^ Cotts won't reveal a single thing after the shambles in the summer. Remember all those car-crash interviews where he was asked to comment on Gayle and Gray. I cannot believe there are no irons in the fire, he's just low-balling it, if that was really true they can have my season ticket back and I'd guess a few others. 

I don't know if Cotterill had realistic targets last summer but his form from the prior season was good and the imminent lynching seems misplaced before he has even signed a Championship player!

WE bought League One. We signed the best League One players and gave them good wages, what he done was no different to what any reasonable manager could have done in his position.

Lansdown has gone on record to say the money was there and wages was not a problem, so the fact was the club could not attract the quality needed, now I personally feel that a more established and respected manager would attract a better quality of player.

We don't have the money to buy the Championship but there are a number of good players out there if we are an attractive proposition. With a Warnock, Pearson or someone of that ilk we might be an attractive proposition, but with SC, we aren't and they simply wont come or have any interest in coming.

[Kingswood Robin]

32 minutes ago, cottsciderarmy said:

WE bought League One. We signed the best League One players and gave them good wages, what he done was no different to what any reasonable manager could have done in his position.

Lansdown has gone on record to say the money was there and wages was not a problem, so the fact was the club could not attract the quality needed, now I personally feel that a more established and respected manager would attract a better quality of player.

We don't have the money to buy the Championship but there are a number of good players out there if we are an attractive proposition. With a Warnock, Pearson or someone of that ilk we might be an attractive proposition, but with SC, we aren't and they simply wont come or have any interest in coming.

Deals were agreed in May, Cotterill attracted them alright. It was the dithering and interference that followed that cost us as other clubs got involved. A Warnock or Pearson wouldn't put up with that. If we had got on and signed those players in May, others will have followed. Who wants to sign for us now, we're a joke outfit.

[BS4 on Tour...]

9 hours ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Absolutely right. The Lansdowns don't have the interests of BCFC or true supporters at heart. They're only interested in their investment. And sadly as most "investors" know bricks, mortar and steel are far better than mediocre footballers - most of whom depreciate in value.

Little passion shown by the corporate types. Look at the Lansdown's match day expressions and compare them to Marina's.

Reckon the Lansdowns will be amongst the fans at an away game at the end of the season when City are relegated - like Davidson did at Crewe many years ago?

Not a chance.

But hey. Ashton Gate will look fantastic. Reasonable ROIs from 12k every week paying £6 for warm pies and pints with as many other income generating activities to boot........

Not many owners hold Q&A sessions with the fans in pubs at away games like Steve Lansdown does...