Let's sack the manager!!

[Rocking Red Cyril]

16 hours ago, BCFC Jordan said:

 

You missed it.

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[Rocking Red Cyril]

16 hours ago, BCFC Jordan said:

 

You missed it.

zoom zoom 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

15 hours ago, samo II said:

We got here (& by here I mean both into this league & this position) on what was for us relatively low outlay for the results.  

Fees for Freeman, Agard, Ayling, Kodjia, Smith, with Wilbraham, Little & Ellliot on frees (I'm ignoring Fredericks...); that really isn't a big recruitment drive for a team that won a record points tally, a cup, & now isn't completely adrift in the Championship.

For me, that means we should certainly be in a position and of a mind to recruit aggressively right now, in order to reinforce the gains we've made in that time.

If not; we deserve what we get, because without the requisite quality, we cannot expect to stay in this league beyond May.

was at reading yesterday , great support,great effort but players needed quick agree with above

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

27 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Excellent post Ole, you say it as a lot of us see it. I'm sick to death of the lynch mob mentality of this forum, lose a few games change the manager, repeat, repeat. It's the same every fn season, ( except last year! ) SC has to have time to sort the playing side out even if the worst happened and we did go down. We have to have stability, a manager who can build a strong squad over a period of years rather than months. SC gave us our first title in 60 years,is it to much to ask the fans to show some loyalty towards him for this?.

Sorry cant agree Bill, I really cant. Yesterday was total garbage from start to finish... the performances have got worse and worse recently, the tactics just seem inept culminating into that and Reading are not even that good of a team. All his credit and goodwill for me goes out the window with his interviews as well.

Also if we go down, there is no guarantee we will come back up. 

[Davefevs]

57 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Excellent post Ole, you say it as a lot of us see it. I'm sick to death of the lynch mob mentality of this forum, lose a few games change the manager, repeat, repeat. It's the same every fn season, ( except last year! ) SC has to have time to sort the playing side out even if the worst happened and we did go down. We have to have stability, a manager who can build a strong squad over a period of years rather than months. SC gave us our first title in 60 years,is it to much to ask the fans to show some loyalty towards him for this?.

I see it the same as you both too.

I really am desperate for us to stay up, but should we go down, then I'd rather Cotts be in charge of getting us back up.  I'd like to think we'd go back up stronger than how we have this season.

Remember Bolton yo-yoing from Prem to Champ under Allardyce, but eventually they got stronger.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I see it the same as you both too.

I really am desperate for us to stay up, but should we go down, then I'd rather Cotts be in charge of getting us back up.  I'd like to think we'd go back up stronger than how we have this season.

Remember Bolton yo-yoing from Prem to Champ under Allardyce, but eventually they got stronger.

West Brom too. They went up, built a bit, regrouped and went up stronger each time until established  

We are too big to have to accept we may need to do that though between this league and the one below, apparently. Even though we have one of the smaller budgets in this league and, until recently, relatively piss poor infrastructure and standing - and it's even our history. 

 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, 29AR said:

West Brom too. They went up, built a bit, regrouped and went up stronger each time until established  

We are too big to have to accept we may need to do that though between this league and the one below, apparently. Even though we have one of the smaller budgets in this league and, until recently, relatively piss poor infrastructure and standing - and it's even our history. 

 

I agree, we shouldn't need to be a yo yo club over 4 or 5 seasons, but we may have to accept it thus season.  Hopefully not.  21 games of which the games against the bottom teams will be crucial.

[Fordy62]

I think this thread has been brilliant. It's really got me over the disappointment of yesterday. 

It's not often you see well reasoned debate between both sides, but we've managed it on here. 

Well done all involved. I'm sure the future is brighter whatever happens from here and we'll all still be here next season no matter what. 

[samo II]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I see it the same as you both too.

I really am desperate for us to stay up, but should we go down, then I'd rather Cotts be in charge of getting us back up.  I'd like to think we'd go back up stronger than how we have this season.

Remember Bolton yo-yoing from Prem to Champ under Allardyce, but eventually they got stronger.

Sam Allardyce has never been relegated from the Premier League, so that isn't exactly a good example.

Equally; I support SC in the immediate future in his goal of keeping us up, but let's not kid ourselves - dropping out of this league equals complete and utter failure, and people are clutching at the thinnest of straws by suggesting their is any merit in it.

We'd lose any players of quality at a cost lower than we should have to sell (bye-bye Smith and Kodjia, and likely Flint for peanuts of their worth), and we'd struggle even more than now to bring in players with the potential to make the step up to this league were we to make it back swift, of which there is next to no guarantee.

Going down would be, and always is a disaster; any suggestion otherwise is frankly absurd.

[Curr Avon]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I see it the same as you both too.

I really am desperate for us to stay up, but should we go down, then I'd rather Cotts be in charge of getting us back up.  I'd like to think we'd go back up stronger than how we have this season.

Remember Bolton yo-yoing from Prem to Champ under Allardyce, but eventually they got stronger.

Bolton didn't yo-yo under Allardyce. Big Sam took over from Colin Todd in October 1999 and gained promotion the following season with a 3-0 play-off final victory over Preston. He left at the end of the 2006/07 season and was replaced by Sammy Lee. The Wanderers managed another 5 seasons in the top flight. 

As a relegated Premier League club Bolton had the benefit of tens of millions in parachute payments. Admittedly the Wanderers blew their's but West Brom were more frugal. 

By comparison relegation from The Championship would cost City millions in lost television revenue, and they would have to rebuild their squad following a likely exodus of players.

In short, yours is a poor analogy and you also believe Cotterill is the best man to take the club backwards.

 

[Davefevs]

My bad....was there a club that did then....something in the back of my head recalls a club going up and down twice?  My brain does hurt a bit these days.

I wasn't suggesting it's good to get relegated.  Just trying to be say that it is a possibility.  We haven't overspent getting here, nor have we overspent (yet) trying to stay here.  I also accept that Cotterill's reputation would be tarnished by relegation, but he would be a good choice to get us back up....but unlikely to be given a chance.  We would lose a few players, but not necessarily for peanuts depending on his long they've got left on their contracts.

I still think we will survive.  But it is going to be a lot scarier than I imagined.

16 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I think this thread has been brilliant. It's really got me over the disappointment of yesterday. 

It's not often you see well reasoned debate between both sides, but we've managed it on here. 

Well done all involved. I'm sure the future is brighter whatever happens from here and we'll all still be here next season no matter what. 

...and I've just ruined it by incorrect facts 

[sh1t_ref_again]

Good to read a thread with sensible well reasoned points, rather than the normal reactionary drivel 

If SC had messed up the summer transfers as badly as some suggest, then I have no doubt that SL would sack him. Picking up on snippets that have been said, it seems that we were very close to several signings, but were unable to "get them across the line", also lots of mention of agents fees, this with the departure or Mr Pelling would suggest to me the summer mess may have been due to others sat between SC & SL trying to play hardball on done deals.

Also lots said about resistance to change, whilst I do share the frustration of substitutions (I also felt that last year), changing the complete system has no guarantee to make any difference, in fact it could make matters worse as players try to adapt and then maybe loose confidence in SC.

[Guest]

@samo II not sure I agree we'd have many lining up for our players, Kodj aside, who I think we would get adequate compo for. 

I can't see many looking at Flint and Smith for instance should we be relegated. 

[samo II]

6 minutes ago, 29AR said:

@samo II not sure I agree we'd have many lining up for our players, Kodj aside, who I think we would get adequate compo for. 

I can't see many looking at Flint and Smith for instance should we be relegated. 

I disagree; Smith would be a very astute addition for many Championship teams - his previously time at this level he was excellent, and he's been one of very few players who has looked decent for us this year.

Flint would also have suitors, of that I've no doubt.  Outside of them and Kodjia, I'd agree we might not have many keen on our players, but then people underplayed Cunningham's contribution to us last year, and he's clearly flourished at PNE.

Certianly think someone like Bryan would have clubs after him; he's young and talented, and will not want to stow backwards either.

It is completely mad to think we would go down and be in a good position to come back, or keep the team together: if anything, too much loyalty and resistance to change has screwed us this year - if we go down it would be even worse to follow that path.

We go down, especially this year, it'll be a disaster for us; I don't see any way it could be seen any other way.

[Guest]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Whilst not blaming them, I simply can't see the centre half and ball winning midfielder of such a poor defence being particularly attractive to established sides or newly promoted teams, and that coupled with SLs money and the infrastructure we've built, I feel we'd be bullish enough to say 'you are staying unless we can replace you', Kodjia aside. 

Certain players you could see it with last time, Heaton, Skuse even, but I don't think any have really done enough to make them stand out or too good to come down. 

Last time around we managed to keep the likes of Baldock and recruit JET after all, and we were far worse then and in far worse circumstances. 

[samo II]

21 minutes ago, 29AR said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. Whilst not blaming them, I simply can't see the centre half and ball winning midfielder of such a poor defence being particularly attractive to established sides or newly promoted teams, and that coupled with SLs money and the infrastructure we've built, I feel we'd be bullish enough to say 'you are staying unless we can replace you', Kodjia aside. 

Certain players you could see it with last time, Heaton, Skuse even, but I don't think any have really done enough to make them stand out or too good to come down. 

Last time around we managed to keep the likes of Baldock and recruit JET after all, and we were far worse then and in far worse circumstances. 

Heaton, Gerkin, Skuse, Anderson, Nyatanga, Stead, Davies and Admoah all left us and stayed in the Championship - not saying they subsequently covered themselves with glory, but considering how crap some of them looked for us, I think we can expect anyone with potential in our current squad to have interest.  

And when have we ever been as bullish as you suggest we be?  We let Cunningham go, only to then have to recruit loan cover for the only other possible (makeshift) left wing back we had... because not only did we let a Championship experienced left back go (Cunningham) but also a Championship experienced centre back (Osborne) go out on loan.  That for me underlines the utter, utter lack of real strategy in the summer - It also doesn't suggest we'll have any traction on keeping our quality  or promising players if relegated.

[Guest]

Won't argue with the crux of your second para re Cunningham and Osbourne. Re bullishness we've rarely had players in recent years that we'd want to keep and could reasonably keep no? Even Adomah SOD wouldn't play for instance iirc. I'm not saying we'd necessarily keep them but I think we'd get value. 

As for players I just feel the game is a bit different now.  You only have to look how people dismiss Matt Smith for instance, championship fans demand so much more than their lot such that the days of stripping relegated clubs are numbered I feel. Whilst Wigan lost a few - financially driven - Millwall, Yeovil, Donny, Barnsley I don't recall a mass exodus from though could be wrong  

 

[samo II]

4 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Won't argue with the crux of your second para re Cunningham and Osbourne. Re bullishness we've rarely had players in recent years that we'd want to keep and could reasonably keep no? Even Adomah SOD wouldn't play for instance iirc. I'm not saying we'd necessarily keep them but I think we'd get value. 

As for players I just feel the game is a bit different now.  You only have to look how people dismiss Matt Smith for instance, championship fans demand so much more than their lot such that the days of stripping relegated clubs are numbered I feel. Whilst Wigan lost a few - financially driven - Millwall, Yeovil, Donny, Barnsley I don't recall a mass exodus from though could be wrong  

 

I've not the time to assess whether Millwall, Wigan or Blackpool (who squad-size-wise we resemble most, depressingly) had many players head to other Championship clubs when they went down; I do know last season saw some of the poorest attempts at staying up for years though, with Millwall ending up five points adrift, so perhaps they were not blessed with enviable squads, while I think we've at least four players who would find teams at this level, and be desirable enough to be bid on - Smith, Bryan, Kodjia and Flint, or even Freeman, though he looks out of his depth and not currently athletic enough to play at this level, to be brutal (but will have only one year on his contract come summer, as I understand it).

Equally; the discussion here is about being capable of going immediately back up, yet only Wigan (who still have ex-Prem payments this year, as I understand it) look as if they might do that this year, so do we really want to be comparing ourselves with those teams?

Ultimately, this argument is circular and speculative; you're suggesting that if we go down we would retain the core of our current team, which would also be the same players who helped us escape League One last year.  

Not only do I not think this is unlikely, but I also am not convinced that would result in us immediately being title contenders with just a few additions; I think we'd lose any players worth retaining, and I'm not sure the experience of being relegated will make them the best players to get us back up - we'd need fresh blood, just like we brought in under SC last summer.

Relegation at this juncture would be a disaster for us; I simply am not going to believe what are incredibly optimistic suggestions otherwise.  

What we need is to bolster our ranks now, in order to give ourselves the chance (and it is a chance/gamble now; no other choice left); we backed SC with money to do this two years ago, and he managed it with aplomb - not doing so now would be utterly crazy, as would sleepwalking into relegation.

[Major Isewater]

6 hours ago, mattyali said:

I agree, think we just have to accept the fact if we go down, we weren't good enough and hopefully come straight back up because as we already know the squad is too good for league 1........It's just a shame it isn't good enough for championship, but hopefully we can take this experience and use it the next time we are promoted. Sacking the manager isn't the answer!!!

Coming straight back up is not a given . Ask Sheffield United ,Coventry ,Wigan ,Blackpool ...

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

Sorry cant agree Bill, I really cant. Yesterday was total garbage from start to finish... the performances have got worse and worse recently, the tactics just seem inept culminating into that and Reading are not even that good of a team. All his credit and goodwill for me goes out the window with his interviews as well.

Also if we go down, there is no guarantee we will come back up. 

I don't agree and I agree with Bill. The players are giving everything and that's as good as we are. We lack the necessary quality to be mid table but there is not a better manager  out there who can get more out of this set of players. We will stay up and SC is the person to ensure this . ..... Some help from the board in this window will make his job easier ... CTID

[MattyAli]

On 03/01/2016 at 16:02, Major Isewater said:

Coming straight back up is not a given . Ask Sheffield United ,Coventry ,Wigan ,Blackpool ...

they weren't teams promoted from league 1 coming straight back down though, we should have near enough the same squad that was in league 1 last season.

[samo II]

7 minutes ago, mattyali said:

they weren't teams promoted from league 1 coming straight back down though, we should have near enough the same squad that was in league 1 last season.

There is zero chance we'd have the same or even broadly similar squad as the promotion season if we went down - Wilbraham will be far too old; Elliott is already gone; Smith will find a home at this level; Freeman will have only a year on his deal so will be poached; I believe Flint and possibly Ayling would get clubs up here too.  We'd be rebuilding from scratch.

Really think this utter myth that we'll be fine if we go down needs taking out the back and shooting in the head - it would be a disaster, and we've no right to expect to come straight back up.