Let's sack the manager!!

[Cider red]

In response to the OP, okay lets keep cotts, how will he get us out of the mess we are in? He clearly won't change his approach, he has lost confidence in his players, which is effecting performances. A free approach may get us out of this mess, sticking with what we've got clearly won't. Afterall it worked when SC replaced SOD.

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, Cider red said:

In response to the OP, okay lets keep cotts, how will he get us out of the mess we are in? He clearly won't change his approach, he has lost confidence in his players, which is effecting performances. A free approach may get us out of this mess, sticking with what we've got clearly won't. Afterall it worked when SC replaced SOD.

It didn't work when appointing SOD, or countless others

[BCFC Jordan]

1 minute ago, Cider red said:

In response to the OP, okay lets keep cotts, how will he get us out of the mess we are in? He clearly won't change his approach, he has lost confidence in his players, which is effecting performances. A free approach may get us out of this mess, sticking with what we've got clearly won't. Afterall it worked when SC replaced SOD.

 

It's down the the board to support him this month. As we've seen time and time again, sacking the manager doesn't work. At best we'll stay up (because we're still in touching distance) and then the cycle will repeat next season. Experienced managers like Coppell, O'Driscoll and Cotterill struggle, highly rated young-coaches like McInnes fail. What do you expect sacking the manager to achieve in the long-run? The manager that brought us our first title since 1955, and guided us to 99 points. If we won't back Cotterill after the season he led us too last year, and the fact that the board let him down completely, then when will we ever back a manager?

[Curr Avon]

11 minutes ago, BCFC Jordan said:

 

McInnes - Monk, Cisse/Bikey. All would have improved our woeful defence.

 

McInness signed Bikey under a short term contract in March 2012 and both he and Kalifa Cisse, secured by Steve Coppell in July 2010 helped City to retain their Championship status.

[BS4 on Tour...]

16 minutes ago, BCFC Jordan said:

 

Coppell - rumoured to have left because of transfer interference.

Millen - wanted Billy Jones/McAuley to improve defence. The summer of the season he was sacked, only spent a fee on Bolasie (50k).

McInnes - Monk, Cisse/Bikey. All would have improved our woeful defence.

SoD - Given an extremely limited budget. We could barely afford to pay the compensation for Pack at the time. The deal took a long time to conclude.

Monk changed his mind about joining us, he said as much in an interview recently. He was driving along the M4 to sign for us, decided he didn't want to, turned his car around and drove back. So that is Mr Lansdown's fault?

And I might be wrong, but didn't Pack leave Cheltenham on a 'Bosman transfer' which means a player can leave his club at the end of his contract without his old club receiving a fee. So what do you mean by paying compensation for Pack? I might have got this wrong.

When Bikey left us after seven games he joined 'Boro on a free transfer. So if we could have got him on a free transfer why is that Mr Lansdown not backing McInnes? And Cisse allegedly demanded £40k a week to stay with us. Do you think Mr Lansdown should have paid that? And he was a defensive midfielder not a defender. Also he was signed by Coppell not McInnes.

[RedRock]

There's got to be a hell of a lot of 'noise' going on in the background of this Club.  

Only City could **** things up quite so badly from such a position of strength last April.

For sure, the next 2 weeks are going to be telling as to our future and who's been to blame for our abject failure to impact the Championship. 

[Sargent Pepper]

Those in Camp Cotts blame board for transfers.

Those who want Cotts out blame him for transfers.

So basically, nobody knows but everyone twists it to suit their agenda. Fantastic.

To play devils advocate, was it all down to the board for the previous summers excellent transfer window? If so why did Cotts (rightly imo) get so many plaudits throughout the season? It was all down to the board after all.

Of course not. We sell the club as a whole and if a player doesn't want to sign then its not the right club for them. Cheerio. 

Sadly, there are many other mistakes that have happened since where the blame can only fall to one man.

 

[samo II]

We got here (& by here I mean both into this league & this position) on what was for us relatively low outlay for the results.  

Fees for Freeman, Agard, Ayling, Kodjia, Smith, with Wilbraham, Little & Ellliot on frees (I'm ignoring Fredericks...); that really isn't a big recruitment drive for a team that won a record points tally, a cup, & now isn't completely adrift in the Championship.

For me, that means we should certainly be in a position and of a mind to recruit aggressively right now, in order to reinforce the gains we've made in that time.

If not; we deserve what we get, because without the requisite quality, we cannot expect to stay in this league beyond May.

[joe jordans teeth]

1 minute ago, Sargent Pepper said:

Those in Camp Cotts blame board for transfers.

Those who want Cotts out blame him for transfers.

So basically, nobody knows but everyone twists it to suit their agenda. Fantastic.

To play devils advocate, was it all down to the board for the previous summers excellent transfer window? If so why did Cotts (rightly imo) get so many plaudits throughout the season? It was all down to the board after all.

Of course not. We sell the club as a whole and if a player doesn't want to sign then its not the right club for them. Cheerio. 

Sadly, there are many other mistakes that have happened since where the blame can only fall to one man.

 

We will never know,cotts will get a pay off to keep his mouth shut and the silence from the board will be deafening 

[Portland Bill]

55 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

The board didn't back him? Sanctioned multimillion pound bids for players we thought we could only ever dream about! They chose not to come here.

Cotts wanted players that everyone else knew was unrealistic. The only thing the board done wrong was to humour him by agreeing to these players.

I think you need to read what Tetbury Massive wrote on here the other day, because your just guessing what went on in the summer.

[Chairman Mao]

19 minutes ago, Aberdeen Pete's Dad said:

We have never , ever, been relegated from the second tier when we have stuck by the manager. The last time we changed the manager during the January window didn't improve things . Every time we have been relegated we changed the manager - Doherty , Houghton, Hodgson, Osman, Ward, McInness . When we stuck with Dicks or even Millen in 2011  we have stayed up. Do we really think we can't get one point more than Rotherham over 22 games .

 

Millen was totally different

we were doing well by late December, he won manager of the month, Pittman was scoring, the first signs of life came with the draw vs. QPR and Adomah was motoring, with caulker playing like a god at the back. After slamming PNE 4-0 (Clarkson x2, remember him?) we didn't look back and finished 16th

squad was packed full of championship quality, Cisse, Caulker, Stead, Pitman, Adomah, those 5 alone are superior to anyone we have in our respective positions aside from Kodjia

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

I think you need to read what Tetbury Massive wrote on here the other day, because your just guessing what went on in the summer.

I read that, it was very interesting. But when someone refuses to give any real evidence that what they are posting is true then why should we believe them over our club's owner speaking in public and saying transfer fees and wages were not a problem in the summer?

[samo II]

3 minutes ago, Chairman Mao said:

Millen was totally different

we were doing well by late December, he won manager of the month, Pittman was scoring, the first signs of life came with the draw vs. QPR and Adomah was motoring, with caulker playing like a god at the back. After slamming PNE 4-0 (Clarkson x2, remember him?) we didn't look back and finished 16th

squad was packed full of championship quality, Cisse, Caulker, Stead, Pitman, Adomah, those 5 alone are superior to anyone we have in our respective positions aside from Kodjia

I'd agree; despite the strange scenario of Coppell's summer and resignation that year, the squad was undoubtably capable of getting results at this level.

There were probably too many players, and some of dubious quality, but we certainly had better resources all-told than now to compete at this level.

This is the true crux of the issue currently; we simply do not have a big enough squad, nor enough quality to expect to get results.

That means we must buy it, because there is no other way of obtaining it, and subsequently the results we need to stay up.

[CotswoldRed]

4 minutes ago, samo II said:

I'd agree; despite the strange scenario of Coppell's summer and resignation that year, the squad was undoubtably capable of getting results at this level.

There were probably too many players, and some of dubious quality, but we certainly had better resources all-told than now to compete at this level.

This is the true crux of the issue currently; we simply do not have a big enough squad, nor enough quality to expect to get results.

That means we must buy it, because there is no other way of obtaining it, and subsequently the results we need to stay up.

And the reason why the academy is an utter waste of money. 

[REDOXO]

23 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

I think you need to read what Tetbury Massive wrote on here the other day, because your just guessing what went on in the summer.

What thread?

[samo II]

3 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

And the reason why the academy is an utter waste of money. 

Right now, it's hard to argue against that.

[Aberdeen Pete's Dad]

10 minutes ago, Chairman Mao said:

Millen was totally different

we were doing well by late December, he won manager of the month, Pittman was scoring, the first signs of life came with the draw vs. QPR and Adomah was motoring, with caulker playing like a god at the back. After slamming PNE 4-0 (Clarkson x2, remember him?) we didn't look back and finished 16th

squad was packed full of championship quality, Cisse, Caulker, Stead, Pitman, Adomah, those 5 alone are superior to anyone we have in our respective positions aside from Kodjia

I would agree with that., but the reality is we are where we are. A new manager would want to assess the squad, small as it is, which would leave even less time to bring in new players. What, I think, we will agree on is that we didn't bring in enough players, Kodjia aside, who were good enough in the summer. It is all very well putting in bids, but if the players don't sign it doesn't help. Hopefully action is being taken to strengthen the squad, but I can understand the lack of publicity because the bids for Gayle and Gray in the summer being in the public domain didn't help. What we don't know is who was responsible for the lack of signing - Cotts , the board, the chief executive who left or Burt. Given where we are our best chance of staying up is to stick with Cotterill, surely we are better than Rotherham or MK Dons over 22 games especially if we make good signings!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

I agree however, there are a few problems.

- Cotts has just stated we have no one lined up, and doesn't think anyone will be in by next saturday

- No one is going to want to come to us that's worth their salt

- it's only rumour and speculation that the board didn't back him. In the same way there are rumours that suggest players didn't join us because they don't like Cotts, either could be true.

i agree that it doesn't look like the players have stopped playing - the dreaded "lost the dressing room" scenario. I've seen enough shit years and managers sacked to know a performance when the players just don't care and that is not what I seen today. Quite the opposite actually, it simply seemed a case of players trying their best and just not good enough for this level.

 

what would you expect ? despite those who claim to be itk they aren't; Unless you are SC/SL, and they are saying nothing as norm until its done.

[formerly known as ivan]

39 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

I think you need to read what Tetbury Massive wrote on here the other day, because your just guessing what went on in the summer.

Would appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction, what day, what thread etc...

Dont think I read on Twitter what Lansdown said about matching wages but it was down to players ambitions. I'm not guessing I believed it to be a direct quote from Lansdown but happy to be shown otherwise.

[View from the Dolman]

57 minutes ago, BCFC Jordan said:

Coppell - rumoured to have left because of transfer interference.

Millen - wanted Billy Jones/McAuley to improve defence. The summer of the season he was sacked, only spent a fee on Bolasie (50k).

McInnes - Monk, Cisse/Bikey. All would have improved our woeful defence.

SoD - Given an extremely limited budget. We could barely afford to pay the compensation for Pack at the time. The deal took a long time to conclude.

Or if you look at things from a different angle...

Coppell - rumoured to have left for 101 reasons.

Millen - also signed Ryan Taylor for a fee that went to tribunal - Post reported as £300k (http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristol-City-agree-compensation-fee-Rotherham/story-12913694-detail/story.html).

McInnes - said at a Q&A that Andre Bikey's demands were too high. "I told Bikey I wanted him, but he was in cuckoo land with what he wanted in terms of wages. He then came back and asked to train with us, which I agreed.  But having spent three months over the summer doing nothing, he wasn't in right physical shape.  I also liked Cisse but, like Bikey, his demands were too high. He was a top earner before but we won't pay those figures now." (http://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/article/061212-mcinnessupportersmeeting-530193.aspx)

SO'D - he came in saying that the club had previously been too frivilous with money. If he said he didn't need a large budget, why would you expect him to be given one? " The club has changed in a sense. In some ways they've come round to my way of thinking." "I want to get the message out there. People have to understand this club cannot go on losing £12 million a year. The penny has to drop that we need to build something which is going to be sustainable. At the moment, we are spending money and are not successful. You cannot carry on doing the same thing. It is illogical to say 'we're not successful, so we'll spend a load more money. We have to run this club the way it has to be run and we cannot keep on throwing money at it. As a strategy, there is nothing wrong with it – clubs have done it in the past and they will continue to do it in the future. But once you go down that road, you have to keep doing it until you are successful. This club has done it for two or three years and not been successful. This club is now at a crossroads and it does not have any choice."

[Superjack]

1 hour ago, City169 said:

Warnock would be a mistake, he may keep us up, but there is no long term plan with warnock and we would be worse off afterwards

Not on a contract to the end of the season, he wouldn't...

[JamesBCFC]

2 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Not on a contract to the end of the season, he wouldn't...

but then what if he fails? 

[Superjack]

1 hour ago, City169 said:

 pWarnock would be a mistake, he may keep us up, but there is no long term plan with warnock and we would be worse off afterwards

Not on a contract to the end of the season, he wouldn't...

8 minutes ago, City169 said:

but then what if he fails? 

Then we will be where we are going anyway.

[CotswoldRed]

We all know SL wouldn't employ Warnock.

[JamesBCFC]

3 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Not on a contract to the end of the season, he wouldn't...

Then we will be where we are going anyway.

so you know for absolute certainty that we are relegated? we are in the drop zone on goal difference and goal difference alone, not cut adrift.

[Superjack]

1 minute ago, City169 said:

so you know for absolute certainty that we are relegated? we are in the drop zone on goal difference and goal difference alone, not cut adrift.

You say stick. I did too.

But more and more are changing their mind with every passing game.

This is woeful. Something has to change.

If you are down to your last pound you may as well put it on a horse. At the end of the day you'll be skint anyway...

[Roe]

2 hours ago, Aberdeen Pete's Dad said:

We have never , ever, been relegated from the second tier when we have stuck by the manager. The last time we changed the manager during the January window didn't improve things . Every time we have been relegated we changed the manager - Doherty , Houghton, Hodgson, Osman, Ward, McInness . When we stuck with Dicks or even Millen in 2011  we have stayed up. Do we really think we can't get one point more than Rotherham over 22 games .

This is probably the case for a lot of teams nowadays because managers get sacked so often and don't get to see out full seasons when they're even slightly near danger.

The world was ending on here when we were towards the bottom of this division with Gary Johnson, Keith Millen and Derek McInnes and yet all of them got us safe in time when they were backed and given the chance to do so. I still personally think we could have stayed up with O'Driscoll if he'd have been backed to sign a centre back and the club hadn't already been resigned to a final probable relegation anyway.

For all the "Cotterill is an idiot" posts on here, he's clearly not and knows how to manage a football team better than any poster on here. If he's given the backing then he can succeed and keep us up. Whether he'll be backed and we'll be able to get in the right players this time, we'll have to wait and see.

[Fordy62]

2 hours ago, 29AR said:

I'm a big fan of SC, but I don't think there could be many complaints if he got the bullet - even though if it was my decision I would not pull the trigger. 

There's been enough bad results in important games. There's Charlton in recent history, the capitulation second half v MK Dons and the no show at Rotherham. That's twice we've let relegation rivals come away from our ground with a point, whilst turning up to another's and leaving with nothing.

He said last season he deliberately had a small squad and he knew and accepted the risk he was taking. Even if those few transfers got over the line if TM was accurate, he was still taking that risk again. Maybe he ought die by his sword particularly as he's not used the loan market well. 

I'd give him the window, but I don't think it unreasonable if the other course of action was taken. 

I think this is pretty bang on for how I feel. 

[YorkshireSection]

1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

I think you need to read what Tetbury Massive wrote on here the other day, because your just guessing what went on in the summer.

So is everyone, NOBODY on this forum has a clue what went on as it's not been documented or even talked about publicly.

All we can do is look at the facts.

a formation that doesn't work at this level.

awful use of substitutions.

ridiculous loan signings

not to to mention NO plan b...........oh and the latest I haven't got anyone lined up, it's comments like that, that scream of him being arrogant at best.

[Roe]

1 hour ago, View from the Dolman said:

SO'D - he came in saying that the club had previously been too frivilous with money. If he said he didn't need a large budget, why would you expect him to be given one? " The club has changed in a sense. In some ways they've come round to my way of thinking." "I want to get the message out there. People have to understand this club cannot go on losing £12 million a year. The penny has to drop that we need to build something which is going to be sustainable. At the moment, we are spending money and are not successful. You cannot carry on doing the same thing. It is illogical to say 'we're not successful, so we'll spend a load more money. We have to run this club the way it has to be run and we cannot keep on throwing money at it. As a strategy, there is nothing wrong with it – clubs have done it in the past and they will continue to do it in the future. But once you go down that road, you have to keep doing it until you are successful. This club has done it for two or three years and not been successful. This club is now at a crossroads and it does not have any choice."

Wise words tbg. Should get him in as manager.